This topic is for discussion of map #1720: Hovership Commander Mission 1
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1720)
Author: Argonwolf
Size: 200x200
If you encounter any bugs (you probably will) I'd be happy to hear about them here.
Note: You take damage if your physical height is at or below the creeper's numeric depth, not its visual depth. I don't know any way around this, so if you start taking damage while hovering above the recently-released stash or any other very deep creeper, this is why.
Quote from: Argonwolf on June 08, 2021, 04:06:46 PM
If you encounter any bugs (you probably will) I'd be happy to hear about them here.
Note: You take damage if your physical height is at or below the creeper's numeric depth, not its visual depth. I don't know any way around this, so if you start taking damage while hovering above the recently-released stash or any other very deep creeper, this is why.
I pointed out the game bug affecting non-beta players in the other map, but will answer the other question here. You want to be using getexactcreeeperheight instead of just getcreeeper to determine the safe elevation.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say this looks like a fun concept.
Words cannot express how awesome this is. Micromanagement from a first person perspective is pretty hard but otherwise this is similar, but a lot better than FPS maps. I wouldnt be mad if some base building aspects were replaced by autopilot and little more focus put on the weapon systems and upgrades. An AI, that puts down infrastructure in an efficient way and constantly builds turrets on a designated place where you can just pick them up and place them where you need them would be cool, call it semi-autopilot. This way you could add porters to assist in taking remote places.
Another thing that would be nice, is more leeway when dropping turrets with the magnet beam. Its pretty hard to put them down in that one valid spot. Just make them snap to a valid place, similar to how it works, when you move multiple turrets at once in the base game. This was especailly annoying when trying to take that last island, because you really need turrets while the pylon is building and while the AC from the bombs last and putting them in a place that doesnt block the pylon was very hard, even after I terraformed some of it.
One little bug I noticed is with the magnet beam as well. It behaves weirdly when you try to use it while in build mode. I feel like it tries to grab the unit you have recently dropped (while in build mode?), regardless from where you currently are. I didnt investigate too much.
I am curious if this works with multiverse...
Quote from: Durikkan on June 08, 2021, 06:00:31 PM
Quote from: Argonwolf on June 08, 2021, 04:06:46 PM
If you encounter any bugs (you probably will) I'd be happy to hear about them here.
Note: You take damage if your physical height is at or below the creeper's numeric depth, not its visual depth. I don't know any way around this, so if you start taking damage while hovering above the recently-released stash or any other very deep creeper, this is why.
I pointed out the game bug affecting non-beta players in the other map, but will answer the other question here. You want to be using getexactcreeeperheight instead of just getcreeeper to determine the safe elevation.
Oh yeah, I forgot to say this looks like a fun concept.
D'oh! I didn't even see GetExactCreeperHeight in the API. That'll be fixed for Mission 2. And yeah, feels bad that the rasters are so broken pre-beta, but future maps should be fine once the stable release is out.
Quote from: brainfart on June 08, 2021, 06:04:58 PM
Words cannot express how awesome this is. Micromanagement from a first person perspective is pretty hard but otherwise this is similar, but a lot better than FPS maps. I wouldnt be mad if some base building aspects were replaced by autopilot and little more focus put on the weapon systems and upgrades. An AI, that puts down infrastructure in an efficient way and constantly builds turrets on a designated place where you can just pick them up and place them where you need them would be cool, call it semi-autopilot. This way you could add porters to assist in taking remote places.
Another thing that would be nice, is more leeway when dropping turrets with the magnet beam. Its pretty hard to put them down in that one valid spot. Just make them snap to a valid place, similar to how it works, when you move multiple turrets at once in the base game. This was especailly annoying when trying to take that last island, because you really need turrets while the pylon is building and while the AC from the bombs last and putting them in a place that doesnt block the pylon was very hard, even after I terraformed some of it.
One little bug I noticed is with the magnet beam as well. It behaves weirdly when you try to use it while in build mode. I feel like it tries to grab the unit you have recently dropped (while in build mode?), regardless from where you currently are. I didnt investigate too much.
I am curious if this works with multiverse...
At the moment I sincerely doubt it works with multiverse, as there doesn't seem to be a multiplayer 4rpl API yet. If I had to guess, I'd say it would just be two players fighting for control of the same hovership in its current state. However, I'm certainly not opposed to trying to make 2-player hovership maps. If and when it happens I'll probably design maps so one player is the hovership pilot and the other has the normal top-down controls (and of course obscene amounts of enemies to fight). Even without multiplayer I have a Total Command mode planned (current maps are tagged "Classic" which is the hovership-centric gamemode) where one can swap between the normal RTS and hovership pilot modes at will. I'll also look into an AI commander that handles the base for you while you fly. You (and everyone else) are more than welcome to modify the code to your heart's content and release it as your own map (please tag or credit me in some way though; this was a lot of work).
Thanks for the bug report also, I'll see what I can do before Mission 2 comes out. The gravbeam shouldn't work at all in build mode. As for the dropping of turrets, I'm probably going to leave that the same since precision piloting is intended to be as important in these levels as strategic thinking.
I'm really glad you like it!
I love the idea, and once I saw Durikkan's fix for the training level and could actually play both it and this one, it was fun. However it still feels a little clunky. Some kind of autobuilding AI would go a long way to making it feel smoother. It'd also be really useful to have a way to lock in a certain terrain height so you're not constantly fighting to get the ground built up to the level you want. Half the time I was undoing my work which was really frustrating when trying to also mix in bomb drops to keep creeper away.
Quote from: Malignantmind on June 08, 2021, 07:38:12 PM
I love the idea, and once I saw Durikkan's fix for the training level and could actually play both it and this one, it was fun. However it still feels a little clunky. Some kind of autobuilding AI would go a long way to making it feel smoother. It'd also be really useful to have a way to lock in a certain terrain height so you're not constantly fighting to get the ground built up to the level you want. Half the time I was undoing my work which was really frustrating when trying to also mix in bomb drops to keep creeper away.
When using the terra beam, there are some ways to make it a bit easier. Using C to enter bomber cam will put your crosshair directly beneath you, so you can tell how close you are to the edges of tiles. I would also recommend holding Left Control to activate airbrakes while lining yourself up, since it vastly reduces drift.
Not sure if a bug or something behind the scenes that I'm just unlucky for hitting, when I press K the reticle disappears and my bullets go straight out into the void. when using the rockets I hit myself so maybe it's in the ship? My game also crashes after either restarting or exiting the mission, might just be beta issue though... Other than that it's awesome but maybe adding a auto AI to build the infrastructure? Unless I missed something we're not able to drag structures when building so it's a bit of a pain.
Quote from: Conor on June 08, 2021, 08:56:25 PM
Not sure if a bug or something behind the scenes that I'm just unlucky for hitting, when I press K the reticle disappears and my bullets go straight out into the void. when using the rockets I hit myself so maybe it's in the ship? My game also crashes after either restarting or exiting the mission, might just be beta issue though... Other than that it's awesome but maybe adding a auto AI to build the infrastructure? Unless I missed something we're not able to drag structures when building so it's a bit of a pain.
CRAP. I can't believe I left that in. It's a map editing helper function that causes all "disposable" objects (the skybox, crosshairs and the like) to commit sudoku so I can recompile without leaving the now-defunct husks of objects lying around the map.
Normally I check carefully to make sure I commented out the kill function before the final compile, but I was getting pissed at a bug with the staging facility that prevented it from getting resources if you load a saved game. I got it fixed but was so done with debugging I apparently ignored the debug command you found. Sorry I ruined that run. :( And since the yellow targeting reticle stopped existing, bullets stayed in their default orientation when fired and missiles self-destructed as they normally do if their assigned target doesn't exist. Auto AI is a popular request so I'll definitely see what I can do, and thank you for the feedback!
P.S. Unfortunately said game crash is, as you guessed, due to a bug with the raster in the pre-beta versions of the game. Apparently changing raster sizes doesn't update the image buffer size and causes a segmentation fault or some such nonsense. Virgil explained it when I reported the bug but I forgot exactly what he said the problem was.
This game mode is incredibly fun. The controls take some time getting used to, but are fun once you do.
I did encounter the crash upon resetting and finishing the mission, which was a bit of a bummer, but not that bad.
Are sprayers intentionally un-liftable? I tried moving some of the sprayers I built around the map, but the grav beam didn't work on them.
Also, I don't know if this is possible, but could you set sprayers to default to "Always On" when built? I eventually found that you can move overtop of the sprayer so that the unit is "selected", and then pause or remove mouse control with "R" to select always on, but it's a bit of a pain to have to do it for every single sprayer that gets placed.
Other than that, I enjoyed the mission, and can't wait to see what the future holds in store for this game mode.
I had amazing fun with the mission, once I managed to establish a proper arg supply. The only part that drove me up the wall was finding a foothold on the final island. Basically nothing worked to get over until I did a triple shield drop into two full ac bomb drops and I was just BARELY able to squeak in a pylon and a single cannon to hold the line while I brought more units. I recommend either allowing us platforms in future missions, or making sure each island has multiple access points, since the one spot where you can connect to the spore island is also right where the mesh comes off.
Quote from: InwardChaos on June 09, 2021, 10:15:49 AM
This game mode is incredibly fun. The controls take some time getting used to, but are fun once you do.
I did encounter the crash upon resetting and finishing the mission, which was a bit of a bummer, but not that bad.
Are sprayers intentionally un-liftable? I tried moving some of the sprayers I built around the map, but the grav beam didn't work on them.
Also, I don't know if this is possible, but could you set sprayers to default to "Always On" when built? I eventually found that you can move overtop of the sprayer so that the unit is "selected", and then pause or remove mouse control with "R" to select always on, but it's a bit of a pain to have to do it for every single sprayer that gets placed.
Other than that, I enjoyed the mission, and can't wait to see what the future holds in store for this game mode.
Yes, sprayers are un-liftable because there's no way to change the collection field from a script, and picking one up while the field's on basically creates a permanent partial gravity well at its original location. Refreshing the unit's LOS cache doesn't help either, nor does having the unit lift off the ground normally and re-land after dropping it. If I can figure out how to make it work properly I'll let sprayers be picked up. Thank you for the feedback!
Quote from: Th3ch053n0n3 on June 09, 2021, 01:34:46 PM
I had amazing fun with the mission, once I managed to establish a proper arg supply. The only part that drove me up the wall was finding a foothold on the final island. Basically nothing worked to get over until I did a triple shield drop into two full ac bomb drops and I was just BARELY able to squeak in a pylon and a single cannon to hold the line while I brought more units. I recommend either allowing us platforms in future missions, or making sure each island has multiple access points, since the one spot where you can connect to the spore island is also right where the mesh comes off.
Abuse the crap out of the terra beam. If you drop some bombs/fire some missiles it'll give you enough time to terraform a 20-high spike that you can then use flatten to instantly convert into a 3x3 platform.
Wow, great job with these. Crossing over to the final island is a bit of a challenge for a 1st map but fun all the same.
Also had the game crash on exit and once at the start.
The only thing I don't like is having to hover over units to move them, it is quite tedious. Would be much better if you could use your cursor within a limited range and place them with the cursor also (also in a limited range). I gave up and just built new units in the end.
Quote from: D0m0nik on June 09, 2021, 02:53:56 PM
Wow, great job with these. Crossing over to the final island is a bit of a challenge for a 1st map but fun all the same.
Also had the game crash on exit and once at the start.
The only thing I don't like is having to hover over units to move them, it is quite tedious. Would be much better if you could use your cursor within a limited range and place them with the cursor also (also in a limited range). I gave up and just built new units in the end.
I'm planning on releasing some maps in the fairly near future using the "Total Command" rule set, which basically means that you have access to the full vanilla control scheme, including every building in the game and the ability to order units to move by themselves, while still having all the hovership abilities as well. In that mode you'll be able to still pick them up manually, allowing you to transport them much more quickly than they could fly by themselves.
The Classic mode (which is what my current maps are) is intended to test coordination and piloting skill roughly equally with strategic planning, so any maps tagged "Classic" will still have the added challenge of limited command functionality. Also, just in case you didn't notice it, you can upgrade your grav beam to carry stacks of up to 3 units at a time. At any rate, thank you for the comment! I intend to keep player feedback firmly in mind while updating my code for future maps, even if I'm adamant about some things staying the same.
Inspired by Malignantmind, I just thought of a way to make the terraform beam less finicky: Just adjust the hight the beam will terraform to with 1 and 2 and maybe toggle between different sizes with 3. This should make it alot more consistant and intuitive.
I play Creeper World 4 for FPS and PAC maps (pretty much). I now also play CW3 for HS maps too - this is the next evolution in FPS maps. This is what I've been wanting.
There are obviously a few bits that need tweaking but myy mann! This is great work.
It took me a few attempts to realise you can't dawdle around and you have to jump straight into expanding off your little island (the lack of missiles made it very frustrating). That last emitter was a fucking ball ache to beat.
My only request is that you change how the terraform works - doing it through the aim crosshair instead of below the ship would make it 10x more enjoyable and natural.
Carry on sir!
I'm still very excited by these maps, but you have not heard from me for over a week since the first test map, because I have been unable to play through this level.
Every time it force crashes and shuts everything down. At first it was when I opened main menu and "restarted" , this was a guaranteed force close full crash every time. I've played it three more times without attempting a restart, but those all ended with sudden force close crashes as well. Sadly I was actually making progress on the last two tries. :(
I look forward to a time when I can actually play one of these levels.
Quote from: CyberDyneSystems on June 11, 2021, 06:00:07 PM
I'm still very excited by these maps, but you have not heard from me for over a week since the first test map, because I have been unable to play through this level.
Every time it force crashes and shuts everything down. At first it was when I opened main menu and "restarted" , this was a guaranteed force close full crash every time. I've played it three more times without attempting a restart, but those all ended with sudden force close crashes as well. Sadly I was actually making progress on the last two tries. :(
I look forward to a time when I can actually play one of these levels.
Assuming you have the beta installed I don't know what could be causing them to crash. Are you on GitHub? They have a bug report forum there:
https://github.com/KnuckleCracker/CW4-bug-tracker/issues
Quote from: Argonwolf on June 12, 2021, 01:11:34 AM
Assuming you have the beta installed I don't know what could be causing them to crash. Are you on GitHub? They have a bug report forum there:
https://github.com/KnuckleCracker/CW4-bug-tracker/issues
Thanks, stupid question, if CW4 is on STEAM, do I have any say over what version it's running? Isn't it all automatic?
Quote from: CyberDyneSystems on June 12, 2021, 02:12:50 PM
Quote from: Argonwolf on June 12, 2021, 01:11:34 AM
Assuming you have the beta installed I don't know what could be causing them to crash. Are you on GitHub? They have a bug report forum there:
https://github.com/KnuckleCracker/CW4-bug-tracker/issues
Thanks, stupid question, if CW4 is on STEAM, do I have any say over what version it's running? Isn't it all automatic?
Well you'd have to manually opt in to the mverse beta in the game's properties area in the betas tab, it's not automatic, so you do have a say over that.
Ah, cheers, thanks for that. 8)
Well, I'm back to say thanks again, no issues since the Beta install, and again just WOW!
This mod is fantastic!!!
I've been playing mission one for some time, and really enjoyed the challenge and the game play. I learn new controls and abilities and take it one step at a time, there so much to take in! I'm down to the last island, and have just re-read the tips in this thread, so I hope soon I will be able to beat it. This is a TOUCH final push on that island!
Congrats on a fantastic mod, and a very challenging map to learn on.
Quote from: CyberDyneSystems on June 13, 2021, 03:11:43 AM
Well, I'm back to say thanks again, no issues since the Beta install, and again just WOW!
This mod is fantastic!!!
I've been playing mission one for some time, and really enjoyed the challenge and the game play. I learn new controls and abilities and take it one step at a time, there so much to take in! I'm down to the last island, and have just re-read the tips in this thread, so I hope soon I will be able to beat it. This is a TOUCH final push on that island!
Congrats on a fantastic mod, and a very challenging map to learn on.
Thank you! Personally I thought the final island was pretty easy once I sealed off the digitalis lines with mortars and quarantined it. At that point I used AC bombs/terra beam to get some 20-high platforms near the edge that I could safely pylon over to. Only real problem then is the eggs that create waves able to wash over the highest points. Then again I had by then spent a lot of time practicing my piloting in various runs to debug the maps. :P
Quote from: Argonwolf on June 13, 2021, 03:37:04 PM
Quote from: CyberDyneSystems on June 13, 2021, 03:11:43 AM
Well, I'm back to say thanks again, no issues since the Beta install, and again just WOW!
This mod is fantastic!!!
I've been playing mission one for some time, and really enjoyed the challenge and the game play. I learn new controls and abilities and take it one step at a time, there so much to take in! I'm down to the last island, and have just re-read the tips in this thread, so I hope soon I will be able to beat it. This is a TOUCH final push on that island!
Congrats on a fantastic mod, and a very challenging map to learn on.
Thank you! Personally I thought the final island was pretty easy once I sealed off the digitalis lines with mortars and quarantined it. At that point I used AC bombs/terra beam to get some 20-high platforms near the edge that I could safely pylon over to. Only real problem then is the eggs that create waves able to wash over the highest points. Then again I had by then spent a lot of time practicing my piloting in various runs to debug the maps. :P
At this stage, it's my piloting skills that has me bogged down. More specifically, learning to swap tools fast enough to keep up. The terraforming is particularly difficult. I mad the mistake of spending the credits I'd earned, including ship speed, and that has made controlling the terraform beam in "c" view even more difficult. I'd only just gotten used to the reactions of the keypresses with the slower ship. So it's clear terraform is what I need to do, but it's just so slow going. I'll get the hang of it as I work on it. Mybe you could make the main gun firing while using left ALT terraform on by default, it's too many buttons to push!
Finally got there!
Thanks for such an amazing Mod! Now, when I have time, on to level two :)
Quote from: CyberDyneSystems on June 14, 2021, 11:40:34 AM
Finally got there!
Thanks for such an amazing Mod! Now, when I have time, on to level two :)
Dunno if it'll help, but level 2 has a keybind menu activated with the backspace key (it tells you about it in the intro popup to the level) since it was a popular request. If you like, you can bind the same key to multiple actions.