This topic is for discussion of map: Double-Edged Sword (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2502)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/thumb.php?id=2502) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2502)
Author: mthw2vc (Spare) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/viewmaps.php?author=mthw2vc+%28Spare%29)
Desc:
The emitters can work for you or against you. What's it going to be?
Yeah... having a little trouble with this, I figured it wasn't a straight forward map.
hmmmmmmmm. not sure how to crack this one.
Despite the request for clues not to be posted, can we please have a clue?
Well your request for "no clues to be posted" had backfired quite badly. Just one person with a score and a rating of 2. Great.
Well, I wanted to know if people would like this kind of map. The result is no. Besides, it's more a proof of concept than a map I intended to be played.
So will you spill the beans now then? I would love to see how it's done.
I might release the secret to the public at some point in the future. But not now.
When you say "proof of concept" it seems what you really mean is something more like "experiment", right? A "proof of concept" is something that demonstrates that an idea or concept is viable, feasible, interesting or possible. This map doesn't prove anything :)
It proves something, if you figured out the trick on how to beat it.
I suspect that if you're not going to reveal the secret soon, everyone is going to lose interest (or has already lost interest) in this map.
Timwi its so obvious once you figure it out. I have finally figured it out and ow to complete the map.
Well, it never really reached its intended audience and it's still tough endgame. Perhaps the true puzzle lovers of CW will enjoy this map, as might someone who's looking for a challenge in figuring it out. At the end of July, I will draw my conclusion on the results of this map.
I think I am normally a "puzzle-lover" in that sense. I greatly enjoyed figuring out this map (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=773&page=) for example, which was a pretty hard puzzle. I also made a puzzle-like map (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=610&page=) myself.
However, this map is not interesting because it doesn't encourage thinking. It just sets you up for failure. I suspect that your solution may not be a solution within the normal boundary conditions of the game; you are either exploiting a bug in the game, or an undocumented feature, in both cases of which I have no chance of figuring it out except by stumbling on it by sheer luck.
I admire the effort you put into trying to get me to reveal the solution, but it shall not come. I do not exploit any undocumented features that cannot be inferred from watching normal play. This map is for those who are willing to think outside of the box and try everything that might work.
No need to admire anything. I'm not trying to get you to reveal anything. I'm just explaining why some people might not find it interesting (or at least why I don't find it interesting). I think I've tried "everything that might work" (and I think the search space is limited) and none of it worked, so I don't think the solution can be inferred from "normal play" — unless there is an element to "normal play" that I haven't figured out, which is of course entirely possible, but like I said it would require that I stumble upon it by sheer luck, which is not an interesting puzzle.
By totally random chance, I figured out how not to die within the first 60 seconds.
But actually trying to beat it through to the end is dull.
Quote from: Barbses on July 10, 2010, 02:18:56 PM
By totally random chance, I figured out how not to die within the first 60 seconds.
But actually trying to beat it through to the end is dull.
I've PMed you on the matter, as I do not intend to discuss the solution here.
After 20-30 attempts I finally got the solution. Not because I found it myself, but because I asked for a hint by PM. This is what I've tried and mailed to mthw2vc:
I've tested my theories, but to no avail. :(
I figured:
1. The box won't be able to hold off the creeper going from the outside to the inside, but will do so for creeper going from the inside to the outside.
2. Blasters kill up to 1 elevation layer per cell they damage.
3. They creeper is least intensive at the mid top and mid bottom of the box, especially after letting it run for a while (and just flying OC around).
4. Even if I manage to build 1-3 collector or 1 reactor somewhere, I won't be able to power more than 1 weapon for a while, because extending my infrastructure will also cost 1 energy per sec.
So I assume that my weapon of choice (most likely a blaster, but I tried a mortar as well to be sure) should attack the creeper outside the box. I chose to do this at the mid bottom for most of my attempts (although I tried a corner as well, because more zero intensity emitters are located there). I can't however clear an area big enough to fit OC, even with 2 blasters initially. It must be the location I put them (I tried the bottom of the map, just below the zero emitters, on top of the zero emitters and just above them). I've tried spreading 2 blasters and keeping them together (which is often better). And if it's not the location, it must be the timing I use (I tried flying first and then building or building first and then flying). All without success.
Now you said: how can the zero intensity emitters work better for you? They actually work best when there's a lot of creeper above them, so more creeper is eliminated every 0.4 seconds. Without intervention the total amount of creeper still grows however, so waiting is not an option. It only means that it's a waste of energy to attack creeper that will be sucked up anyway.
I'm pretty sure I should fly OC under the box and defend against creeper from the left and right, while the top (the zero intensity emitters) is safe, just as the bottom (bottom of the map). Staying slightly on top of the zero-emitters is also an option, but this also didn't work for me.
So I'm afraid I have to wait until the end of July....
I was not close to the solution however, which is brilliant! Really really very nice! To be honest I wouldn't have thought of it myself, even when I would have tried 100 more times. Although mthw2vc allowed me to post the solution here I won't and leave that to him. Truly a knuckle cracking map with a great solution. Chapeau!
Believe me when I say that giving a hint isn't possible (apart from what has been said already). The hint would be the solution.
Edit: 5/5!
Well, if you won't reveal the solution to the public, then I will respect that choice. If anyone still really wants to know the solution, feel free to PM me about it. There's no reason to spoil anyone who's just reading the comments.
The only thing I'll say, is that not one keystroke or click of your mouse while playing this map will help you.... ;) (Hmmm, so a hint was possible. :P)
oh!
hm, that is a Very good idea though!
Quote from: thepenguin on August 12, 2010, 11:26:16 AM
it's already august!!
what about the solution?
I have stated that anyone who wishes to know the solution may PM me, as "
There's no reason to spoil anyone who's just reading the comments." Also note that I never truly intended to reveal the solution to the public. I was just buying time to nudge my "intended audience" into playing it.
and the solution has been revealed! This is actually a nice 'sort of' cross between puzzle and regular maps, though the end does get a bit sloggy.... really nice map overall! now to get a good score... ;)
Made it !! ;D used some drones to keep the emitters low, awesome !!