This topic is for discussion of map #1555: FPS Sleeper Dungeon (Unfinished)
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1555)
Author: Kaiden
Size: 256x160
The last area was an absolute slog and not enjoyable at all. Sitting there for several minutes just holding down the fire button with a fully upgraded mortar rapid firing before I even saw a slight dent in the massive tower of creeper. Otherwise the map was fine. Although can we please all just agree that the health objective needs to go away on these kinds of maps? It's fine in the more open FPS maps, but in tight narrow corridors, where peeking around a blind corner will instantly lose you the objective because you get shot by multiple creeper cannons and can't do anything to stop it in time, is not fun gameplay.
Quote from: Malignantmind on May 15, 2021, 07:38:06 PMAlthough can we please all just agree that the health objective needs to go away on these kinds of maps? It's fine in the more open FPS maps, but in tight narrow corridors, where peeking around a blind corner will instantly lose you the objective because you get shot by multiple creeper cannons and can't do anything to stop it in time, is not fun gameplay.
All sleeper weapons have an outline and a marker on the map, so you could use those to see where they are. Also I'm planning on reducing the health requirement for the objective to 60%
Definitely agree that the health objective is way too high or should be scrapped altogether. Spending quite a bit of time trying to position the mortar exactly to destroy those turret guys on the ramp was annoying.
Also agree with the tower of creep. Boring and pointless.
Didn't come across anything glitched,
The room with the 3 towers that the walls disappear to allow you up the ramp was a bit meh. Too much creep production, was just a case of standing there with the mortar wearing it down, laying more ac breeder to wear down the creep. Was stuck there for way too long letting autofire do its thing.
Quote from: Kaiden on May 15, 2021, 07:49:19 PM
All sleeper weapons have an outline and a marker on the map, so you could use those to see where they are. Also I'm planning on reducing the health requirement for the objective to 60%
Well hiding behind a corner and mortaring for a minute or two to kill the cannons that can cause your health to drop by 30% in less than a second isn't the most satisfactory experience either.
Also I feel I have to ask... Why release the unfinished map, why not wait until it's done?
Also worth noting that this map has a bug where the health objective is instantly failed. To fix that add
once
1 ->*playerHealth
endonceto Player.4rpl as the first lines in the :GameLoaded Function.
I really like where you and the others are going. You're creating a new genre here, and I'm really interested to see where you all take it. Your maps, especially are particularly innovative.
I'm aware of the tanky weapon problem as well, I'm going to lower the health from the 10 that heritor set, to something like 4, twice as much as a sleeper pylon or miner's health. Also, since the sleeper structures add creeper constantly regardless of the cutoff, you have to move fast to make later stuff easier.
Sweet design, complete one sure will be fun. One thing if i need to complain is the last part is just long for nothing to just drain. It turns only in a waiting game and breaks the mood of all the previous action. Looking forward to the complete version!!
On a side note. I look forward to seeing the inevitable Play as Sleeper Creeper with all these new creeper structures y'all are making. Someone needs to make it happen.
Great map to be sure!
Agree that the last tower of creep was tiresome,. if your going to place no limit on the height of the creep tower, let us have orbitals to make faster work of it.
More like a debug map for highlighting mortar's dead angle.
The turrets heal WAY too fast, they can just sit in AC and take cannon fire for ages.
Also yeah, health objective is bad for maps like this. It's incredibly tedious to do. Like, "don't die" might be do-able, but it's just not fun as is.
..though I had to honer system to even check that, since it's started failed.
You'll probably also want to remove most the upgrade options for a map like this. At best you have people trivialising it with the aura upgrades, at worst you have unwinnable/slog maps because people didn't buy the same number of weapon efficency as the creator.
Quote from: Redneck on May 15, 2021, 11:24:30 PM
Sweet design, complete one sure will be fun. One thing if i need to complain is the last part is just long for nothing to just drain. It turns only in a waiting game and breaks the mood of all the previous action. Looking forward to the complete version!!
The last area is a placeholder so I could fit in a totem, it's not going to be in the full map
I like the map layout. This is already really promising. Some suggestions, mostly to reduce the slog factor:
- Couple sleeper unit's damage resistance and regeneration to creeper/AC height on it. Sleeper units under a lot of creeper should be unkillable and sleeper units under a bit of AC should be killed faster, since then its practically already dead (omae wa mu shindeiru), it just takes a while (AKA slog). Maybe make them absorb creeper to repair. This would greatly reduce the slogness factor, while still beeing a map design tool. Its also weird how you can damage sleeper units deep under creeper by just hitting the creeper surface right ontop of them. This solution could also get rid of that problem as well.
- Sleeper mortars instantly produce a new ball o' creeper when the last was destroyed, which happends really quickly when the auto defense upgrade is enabled and results in the mortar beeing unkillable, if the previous suggestion was implemented. A reload delay would be nice, also because they produce a lot of creeper if you are occupied with something else and the auto defense happily snipes away, independant of the last suggestion.
- Speaking of sniping: The auto defense shoots at the new buildings you introduced. Not sure if that is intended.
- I really dont like the global creeper threshold (All creeper producers are halted once this amount is reached). It means that early (and with a lot of production or waiting) its fairly easy to clear corridors or rooms, but later, if the production of creeper is still high enough to get to the limit, all of that creeper is on a small area, which means its really high. This is why this last room was so extremly high, but if you just started the map and waited it wouldnt get anywhere near as high. I suggest a combination of a height limit and this global limit, with the height limit tweaking how hard it will be "lategame" and the global limit to make the beginning have a lower creeper cap. This could probably deslog a lot of FPS maps. I know you didnt use it, but breeder strength could be coupled to the height (pressure) it could build up to, resulting in a more dynamic limit.
Thanks for reading my stuff and sorry for the dependent clauses.