This topic is for discussion of map #635: Dreadful Dredging
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=635)
Author: Fireswamp
Size: 192x120
any hints?
Spoiler
I have AC flooded island safe from spores , i was hoping the spores will target some creeper area and turn 2000 creeper to AC, it does target the greenar and causes ac conversion, but it doesnt seems to make any difference. i'll maybe try bomber to try to create a wave.
Quote from: sky_killer on January 28, 2021, 02:04:18 PM
any hints?
Spoiler
I have AC flooded island safe from spores , i was hoping the spores will target some creeper area and turn 2000 creeper to AC, it does target the greenar and causes ac conversion, but it doesnt seems to make any difference. i'll maybe try bomber to try to create a wave.
Spoiler
I intended the spore tower as a time limit to stop people from doing the incredibly slow strategies; both myself and the other person who cleared this map did so in under 20 minutes. My hint is that both of us lost 18 units within the span of a few seconds, and the details of what we did in those few seconds are the main keys to both of our solutions to this puzzle. To my best knowledge there are other ways to get a similar result, but losing a bunch of units is by far the easiest.
I have tried a few things, and all I have been able to do is get a single cell point to convert to AC continuously. Creator, can you email me the answer?
Tried with a bunch of units with ERN: mortars, cannons, sprayers, bombers, AC bombers
Also tried sacrificing a lot of sprayers in the very same place.... the creeper went to 1700, but nothing else.
Tried combinatios of all of the above: nothing
Spoiler
I think this has to do with the overflow of creeper into anti creeper. Ive gotten single spots to do it, but I can't get it to cascade yet. You can get a single cell to do it with AC bombers with ern, but that doesn't work long term. I tried a couple of AC sprayer bombs (dropping ac sprays on a spot), but that doesn't cause enough of a wave.
Edit: I have gotten it to work with the sprayers as well, and you get about a 2x2 area of oscilating AC this way. You have to turn off "avoid creeper" & "armed" which allows your sprayers to bunch up and detonate in a single spot. You get about a 2/2 spot of ac this way.
But if this is the way that is intended to beat it, this is super tedious.
The play log has two people who beat it without sacrificing units, and two people who only sacrifice 18. There has to be another way to do this.
I'm at a fair bit of a dead end as well.
Spoiler
AC Bombers are better at causing conversion, but the aiming is very unreliable due to the height of the creeper and the *fling* effect. Dropping piles of AC Sprayers can cause the conversion, but it's essentially random within the area. It feels like this is a try, fail, reload type map, where you have to keep doing it a certain way until RNG gets you enough greenar spots converting that you can get 6 rockets (for a conversion & dampener). I've spent the last 3-odd days trying though, and still nowhere near getting this done.
Quote from: heritor on February 01, 2021, 08:05:29 AM
I'm at a fair bit of a dead end as well.
Spoiler
AC Bombers are better at causing conversion, but the aiming is very unreliable due to the height of the creeper and the *fling* effect. Dropping piles of AC Sprayers can cause the conversion, but it's essentially random within the area. It feels like this is a try, fail, reload type map, where you have to keep doing it a certain way until RNG gets you enough greenar spots converting that you can get 6 rockets (for a conversion & dampener). I've spent the last 3-odd days trying though, and still nowhere near getting this done.
Spoiler
The intended solution has no randomness in the targeting and is very easy to hit specific targets; there are solutions that do have pseudo RNG targeting, and with enough save loads they should work. I think 3 is the number of greenar spots you need to win before the spore tower activates; but 2 might be possible.
Quote from: Fireswamp on February 01, 2021, 09:08:02 AM
Quote from: heritor on February 01, 2021, 08:05:29 AM
I'm at a fair bit of a dead end as well.
Spoiler
AC Bombers are better at causing conversion, but the aiming is very unreliable due to the height of the creeper and the *fling* effect. Dropping piles of AC Sprayers can cause the conversion, but it's essentially random within the area. It feels like this is a try, fail, reload type map, where you have to keep doing it a certain way until RNG gets you enough greenar spots converting that you can get 6 rockets (for a conversion & dampener). I've spent the last 3-odd days trying though, and still nowhere near getting this done.
Spoiler
The intended solution has no randomness in the targeting and is very easy to hit specific targets; there are solutions that do have pseudo RNG targeting, and with enough save loads they should work. I think 3 is the number of greenar spots you need to win before the spore tower activates; but 2 might be possible.
Spoiler
Took me 18 min from 6 spots to win, there could be variation in respawn time depending on computers.
Quote from: Xanif on February 02, 2021, 06:48:45 AM
Quote from: Fireswamp on February 01, 2021, 09:08:02 AM
Quote from: heritor on February 01, 2021, 08:05:29 AM
I'm at a fair bit of a dead end as well.
Spoiler
AC Bombers are better at causing conversion, but the aiming is very unreliable due to the height of the creeper and the *fling* effect. Dropping piles of AC Sprayers can cause the conversion, but it's essentially random within the area. It feels like this is a try, fail, reload type map, where you have to keep doing it a certain way until RNG gets you enough greenar spots converting that you can get 6 rockets (for a conversion & dampener). I've spent the last 3-odd days trying though, and still nowhere near getting this done.
Spoiler
The intended solution has no randomness in the targeting and is very easy to hit specific targets; there are solutions that do have pseudo RNG targeting, and with enough save loads they should work. I think 3 is the number of greenar spots you need to win before the spore tower activates; but 2 might be possible.
Spoiler
Took me 18 min from 6 spots to win, there could be variation in respawn time depending on computers.
To be honest, I've been wondering that myself. Putting Fire's hints together with my own testing, I'm able to get a *lot* closer to where I need to be
Spoiler
but there's a good 3-5 minutes of sitting there just waiting for a respawn to occur and twiddling my thumbs, then watching the spots push the creeper that far down that they stop converting.
Quote from: Xanif on February 02, 2021, 06:48:45 AM
Spoiler
Took me 18 min from 6 spots to win, there could be variation in respawn time depending on computers.
Spoiler
The variance in respawn time should be relatively small for getting all the spawns necessary if you are using the same setup. It seems to me that you are missing a piece of the setup, either your spots aren't stable production locations or you are missing one of the production increases because 6 spots shouldn't take 18 minutes to spawn everything. There are two ways to keep your spots stable spawn positions, and three ways to increase greenar production that I know of.
Also congratulations to everyone who managed to beat the level; I plan to release a video explaining the map and all the quirks I know about it this weekend.
Quote from: Fireswamp on February 02, 2021, 11:29:23 AM
I plan to release a video explaining the map and all the quirks I know about it this weekend.
Help? :D Is the video still planned? :)
Quote from: codenox on February 10, 2021, 03:45:27 PM
Help? :D Is the video still planned? :)
It was but unfortunately on Friday I got some very annoying news that basically ruined all of my free time over the weekend. The busiest part of my week ends tonight so I am hoping I could get it recorded and quickly edited tomorrow. If nothing else I absolutely have free time this weekend, I made damn sure of that following this week.
Sorry, to hear that. No preasure from me. Real life goes first :)
Video is up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOwsYTqIVAk
>save scum like crazy and manipulate things pixel by pixel until you get lucky
That's what I did. Bombers seem to do better when they are in line with crystals, but I didn't bother the consistency and just save scummed when they hit the wrong pixel. It was already enough micro for stalling bombers mid-air just to make them drop AC at the same time. And holy shit I didn't know the terraforming thing.
Great video and puzzle, I thoroughly enjoyed your previous maps too (I recommend playing #378 AHAYWEH, if you haven't). Thank you for the experience.
Force-destroying a Sprayer releases the AC as a bomb.
*headdesk*
In retrospect, that makes perfect sense - it's a mechanic I've never noticed in action before, but knowing that, I can finally beat this level!