This topic is for discussion of map #8458: 8448 hell mod
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=8458)
Author: Nofear
Size: 99x99
Desc:
MAp #8448 from yum234 Highest time award
Is it just me or is this map impossible? I've tried multiple strategies, but no matter what I plug, some whole overflows before getting emitters above 60....and then just instantly floods everything
same here
Nah, the *start* is ok.
Just put a plug in the farleft-top yellow hole in the map.
Where i grind to a halt is later, when the enemy regional absorbers start vomiting too much, and i start losing territory. (around minute 37)
I suspect we are supposed to put them under pressure before then, but ?greep?
that's a farest I can go, althou time can be a bit better
Spoiler
32:22:4 CW3 map shot (https://i.imgur.com/ERXmJfM.jpg)
So, I think a lot of people may be going about this the wrong way. Either that, or I am. I started moving from the lower-right square about an hour into the game. I took the entire square to the left, which took several hours of afk-waiting and then progressing. I'm not sure what the "longest time award" means but I'm guessing my time will be something around 100 hours, lol.
I'm currently at 8:30:00-something and my bomb factory has malfunctioned. It says the bomb is ready, but there's no bomb available. It's submerged in about 400-deep AC so that's not the problem. It's connected and powered up.
The last time I saved was right before taking the upgrading factory... I may have to just reload that.
Any ideas?
Managed to beat the map in 21 hours.
With only one Bomb Factory working (see above post). >:(
It was an interesting challenge but after I defeated the last emitter, I didn't get a victory condition. :P >:( :P
Let me just say that I can see why a lot of people don't like this map. The time it takes to kill the huge booster-emitter with 5 lives... each life takes like what, 15 minutes to die? Yeah, that's unnecessary. But the rest of the map is just a straight-up challenge. Lots of well-placed singularities will do the trick, and after 12 hours (game-time) you'll be able to spam them like crazy.
You can totally turtle this map if you want... just be cautious about each move. Contrary to what your gut might tell you, there's absolutely no need to rush.
As annoying as this map is, I'll be glad to give solutions if anyone's still stuck. Just post here and I'll try to check every now and then.
And if I have to do this map again, since I've already run through it once with one arm tied behind my back, my conscience will not bother me one bit if I bring some extra help for the next one. #justified 8)
Quote from: Johnny Haywire on June 07, 2020, 01:41:45 AM
Managed to beat the map in 21 hours.
With only one Bomb Factory working (see above post). >:(
It was an interesting challenge but after I defeated the last emitter, I didn't get a victory condition. :P >:( :P
Let me just say that I can see why a lot of people don't like this map. The time it takes to kill the huge booster-emitter with 5 lives... each life takes like what, 15 minutes to die? Yeah, that's unnecessary. But the rest of the map is just a straight-up challenge. Lots of well-placed singularities will do the trick, and after 12 hours (game-time) you'll be able to spam them like crazy.
You can totally turtle this map if you want... just be cautious about each move. Contrary to what your gut might tell you, there's absolutely no need to rush.
As annoying as this map is, I'll be glad to give solutions if anyone's still stuck. Just post here and I'll try to check every now and then.
And if I have to do this map again, since I've already run through it once with one arm tied behind my back, my conscience will not bother me one bit if I bring some extra help for the next one. #justified 8)
Please do. Nothing I do stops it from overflowing....after about 1 hour in game time...every time...
Yeah, the overflowing was the first thing I noticed. But do you notice all those absorbers placed all over the place? They absorb creeper (yay!).
So what if you could get a lot of the creeper to go right to that absorber? That'd be cool, right? (Hopefully you've saved a singularity)
NOTE: This is a *long* strategy. There may be a way to rush this map, but I prefer the safe and stable approach.
1) I'm guessing you saw marvinitfox's post about blocking the yellow warp gate in the upper left. Block the one just to the lower left of the big bad emitter.
2) Try to keep the AC *away* from the absorbers if possible until you are able to overpower the surrounding creeper. Try to quell your desire for greater power with a flood of fear for the sake of self-preservation. You want those absorbers to be like walls for you.
3) You may have a better strategy than me for getting to the aether pack.I built up around 120 aether, then used a singularity to pull the creeper away, then pumped AC to it. I think it took a few tries and I didn't start saving the game until about 2 hours into it. Play around with the singularity and find the best shot, if you want to save & load.
4) Once you get the aether, use it all for your protection. If creeper looks dangerous, pop a singularity on an absorber that's in a good place. My favorite ones were the ones just to the left of the middle.
5) So, once you have that going, you've created a base that can't be taken. Your totem power will continue to grow, so it's only a matter of time before you can spam singularities. But what if you could instantly DESTROY emitters with that same singularity? "OOoooOOOO!" you say? Yes indeed, and that kind of virtually unbridled excitement is a very logical reaction. For three or four easy payments of ~300 aether you can pop any of those blue emitters. That's because once creeper piles up to around 2200, it briefly switches to AC. And "briefly" is all you need. [Note: the one in the upper left took about 12 singularities because I left it for last and had to overwhelm it with AC.] So hit it with 3 or 4 short burst singularities as fast as you can stack them (pause if you want, but it's not necessary) and it should pop.
6) Yanno what else the singularity is good for? Building up AC in your own fort, then releasing it en masse upon the unsuspecting enemy. :o
Hope this helps! At least it should give you a good start, and I hope your bomb factory doesn't crash on you. :P
Edit: I just found a game save at about 5 hours and the bomb factory's working so I might try again. I'd recommend hitting the blue emitter that's just above the right green box. Once you pop that with a singularity, you can wait for it to drain, then use your yellow warp gate to take those emitters and get to the upgrade factory. ;)
thx
it took me 9:00:25.8 to beat it, and your help realy helped ... i forgot the singularity (i usualy try to beat maps without using it)
with save and load it gets a bit buggy ( i got the bravo grabz visuals during a load), but i finished the map anyway
i rly love those long, hard battles, i give it a 10/10
And I agree about using the singularity. It's almost never needed and much more fun to use other methods. But it might be absolutely necessary in this map, I dunno. I love these CSM maps but my skill set isn't up to par with these guys who pump out super-fast times. Sounds like too much work if ya ask me, lol 8)
Glad it helped ya! ;)
And to Nofear: Thanks so much for making this map! Although I think the time it takes to kill the bosses is unnecessarily excessive, the rest of the map is fantastic! Great work, m8! ;D ;D
Awww I am still too stupid, singularity do not work or I might be using it in wrong way
Quote from: Roszadok on June 08, 2020, 03:45:46 PM
Awww I am still too stupid, singularity do not work or I might be using it in wrong way
Spoiler
try aiming it between the upgrader and the absorber below it. this got rid of most overflow i had.
alternatively use the 2 absorbers slightly above the middle.
what also worked for me:
Spoiler
pushing the F01/02 switch on and of repeatedly, i set up a autoclicker at 0.5 seconds, this helped a lot against the overflow
During pushing i by mistake taken controll of ugrader and then everything went ok 12:24:49.1
Yeah, once you gain enough power the advantage you gain from a single upgrade is equal to or greater than the benefit from using it as a drain.
BTW, I've noticed that Nofear has some crazy low times on other CSM maps, so I suspect he is a Jedi or Sith Lord who commands the enemy emitters to do his bidding.
I can't seem to drive the creeper beyond 2000 using three singularities.
I wait for 300 power, fire the forge with 50%, 25%, 25%, which I believe gives me three signularities at the same spot, yet I see the emitter at 2000, with 1900-ish in the neighbouring squares.
Should I go for a single 100% shot, should I stack more singularities, or am I doing it completely wrong anyway?
FWIW I'm trying to overflow the leftmost multiplier.
D*mn this is hard.
Ah ok, multipliers don't die from singularity-induced creep/AC flips.
The dark blue destroyable emitters do. Which is well worth doing, at least those that spawn ridiculous amounts like 12,000.
Now what's the right angle of attack on the left 1,000,000 store.
Can't neutralize it because I can't supply the bomb factory with energy, can just singularity-flood it but that's really hard to get right without spilling into unwanted areas, and I'm not sure I can sustain that long enough to actually push 2,000,000 AC into it just to run over the 1,000 emitter to its left...
For some reason, a new attempt worked. Not sure what exactly I did differently.
Things I had to do, by memory:
To get the Aether siphon:
Spoiler
Just place the siphon on the resource pack.
Siphons do not require a flat surface.
The siphon isn't strictly necessary, but you'll have to wait for the totem to recharge the Forge for the singularity weapon, and this map absolutely requires that weapon.
For dealing with overflow:
Spoiler
Switch F01/F02 whenever overflow starts to threaten the Aether siphon.
It's okay if the siphon gets accidentally destroyed, it's quickly rebuilt.
For dealing with the dark blue emitters (already noted by several others):
Spoiler
Fire multiple singularities. Three usually do the trick, sometimes you need a fourth shot.
What happens is that more than 2000 creep will be pulled into the emitter, it will become anticreep, triggering the emitter's self-destruct.
The anticreep will be eated almost instantly by neighbouring creep, but even a split-second of anti-creep on these emitters will trigger their "Oh no, the creeper is too powerfull" selfdestruct anyway. (Flip emitters and multipliers do not have this scenario, so the singularity tactics will fail.)
Getting rid of these emitters will remove a lot of pressure from your area.
I had to be patient with the absorbers. They can store 1 million, 5 million, and 10 million creep/anticreep. ("1E7" is just a computer software way of saying "10 million".)
It just takes time to feed enough AC to kill the creeper in it, and then fill it up to maximum.
Spoiler
It might be a good idea to wall off an absorber so you don't have to feed millions of AC into them; the downside is that you can't move your AC through the absorbers, obviously.
I didn't do that, so I don't know if will actually speed up the map.
To get enough AC output for frontal assaults against ~300-strength emitters:
Spoiler
You need to upgrade to 18.
It's really slow, particularly if you are like me and do it to all the AC emitters just so you don't have to think about where exactly you need to and where you can skip it.
To avoid opening pathways that
will overwhelm you:
Spoiler
Avoid filling absorbers unless you're ready to push past the creep that they absorb.
These things are really your best friend, and they remove the pressure from the absurdly strong emitters (15,000 creep every 100 millisecond: that won't work).
To take more pressure off assaulting emitters:
Spoiler
Upgrade any emitters as you flip it.
Without that, you won't make much progress, and may even get rolled back.
There's a power tower to the left of the upgrader that will get overwhelmed eventually.
To avoid this:
Spoiler
Regularly fire the singularity weapon at a conveniently placed absorber.
There are multiple viable targets, just try them out and see what happens - if a hit spills creep in the wrong direction, just let the situation normalize (you'll usually get your emitters back) and fire at a different location.
I actually sacrificed multiple emitters, some of them for a really long time - I had taken them too early and keeping them on my side would just take up resources I'd need to advance elsewhere.
Identifying the absurdly strong emitters:
Spoiler
Some of them are placed over (under?) gates.
Check all gates that spew out too much creep. If mousing over them does not reveal text that describes the emitter, try the connected locations.
One gate network actually has emitters on TWO locations.
Dealing with the absurdly strong emitters:
Spoiler
They all come as pairs: A relatively mild (1,500/sec or similar) flip emitter and a 15,000/500 ms "oh no the AC is too strong" dark blue emitter (but you don't see the color).
To be able to even assault these you'll need a stopper. It will stop the weak emitter, but you can send a second stopper that will stop the other emitter (one thing you have to find out, since Regallion bombs don't want to go where another bomb is in other maps - though that might be more because there's just one emitter in one place on other maps).
Dealing with the absurdly strong emitter on level 10 (in the top-left corner):
Spoiler
You cannot terp the the terrain under the emitter down, the singularity won't draw AC to level-10 terrain, and you can't create level-10 terrain, so this looks impossible at first.
The key is that while you cannot have level-10 terrain for any duration, terping to level 10 does actually work and lift whatever AC was on the terrain on level 9, which will then spill over the level-10 area and flood the two emitters for a moment, which is long enough to destroy one and flip the other.
You'll probably have to do this twice, because the destroyed emitter tends to flip the flippable emitter.
So don't move your stopper bombs away immediately (I did and have to send a stopper again, though given the extremely long playtime it was a mere annoyance and didn't matter much).
Once your AC emitters are past strength 300, you can start to (cautiously) rely on them to hold against somewhat far-away stronger emitters. You'll want to do that so you can push elsewhere.
Terping level-9 barriers will help tremendously, simply because much less creep will spill over the barrier than if you just keep everything at level 1.
(This is a general tactics for hard-ish AC maps.)
End result was ~7 hours.
I'm sure I could speed this up a bit, but nah... it's too slow.
And as others noticed, getting that multiplier down is just slow.
Don't worry if you don't see the green bar shorten, it will take multiple seconds for each pixel, and multiple minutes to die; just mouse over it and make sure it's covered in AC, and if yet, everything is fine.
Unfortunately there's no way to speed that d*rn thing up; for me, it was the last enemy standing, so I cranked up game speed and went AFK (which I found pretty anticlimactic).
after 2 days i found a way
but i cant killthe last ???
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3173343600
ok you must send the 2 stoper same time and after up to 10
More than four years later and this is STILL a great map!
Want to test your CSM (CORKY-map) skills? Want to test your patience? Want to save baby penguins from being tortured by juvenile delinquents from a futuristic alternate universe? Then this is the map for YOU!
Having played every CSM map there is (as far as I know) I can say with confidence that this is the most challenging of them all. Not the most difficult map in the game, just as far as CSM maps go.
That is, until Martin sees this post and decides to make an even more difficult CSM map.
In the meantime, really cool map - you should try it!
Done the map in 6-ish hours
For some reason cant open the spoilers in other replies to see what others done, but one main tactic I used - I got the thing that stops emitters from making creep through the block that killed my units. There's a small window where relay is alive and can support one packet going through. If you spam place those relays with right timings and right packet speed eventually there would be enough to make one stopping thing.