This topic is for discussion of map #4170: flipping ridiculous
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=4170)
Author: willbir
Size: 256x144
Desc:
Whole map flip-emitter. Deep creeper. May cause lag. TOUGH MAP
The "may cause lag" warning is insufficient. It should add "will cause map rage."
Spoiler
I think this needs a deep understanding of game mechanics.
Spores don't target all units. It's not possible IMHO to build adequate defenses against the spore storm. so one should avoid it rather than attempt to meet it heads-on.
In addition, the "whole map flip emitter" script is diabolical. It adds creeper/anti-creeper every 4 cells, every 10 frames (normal play, 3 time/second). Admittedly, it adds a touch more AC than C, but that's a small mercy. So one needs to build a moving wall of units that can either cause standoff or advance against the creeper - firing mortars into creeper non-adjacent to AC is pointless, for instance. So that mandates only Sprayers and blasters? But, if you build blasters, spores will target them - as will they for enery-supplying units.
So yea, diabolical.
Karsten, thanks for that excellent analysis - I could not understand what was going on with this map but you explained it quite nicely. Being completely clueless and building a ring of mortars & beams I managed to survive around 20 minutes but my ring was slowly shrinking and I knew it was futile.
I did notice that 4 berthas firing at different points around the ring helped a bit, but I also was targeting too deep into the creeper, according to what you said. I'll give it one more go I suppose, and see what happens. Thanks for explaining it! ;D
I should leave a hint as this one turned out a bit crazy, next time I'll add limits to how deep things get, anyway
Spoiler
Nullify the ac emitter, you have no need for it once the chain reaction has started.
i'm finding this one tough :-)
i can't make the emitters flip so i'm guessing you either have to eliminate them or have the whole map under control before they will change.
I can get to one of the emitters, either left or right, and take them out, but then i get swamped before making it to any others.
I'm eliminating the ac emitter once the chain reaction starts as someone suggested. and building a bertha on it in order to make progress through the creeper. however that approach only works for the first one, then i'm unable to keep the creeper back enough, or to get anything built on the second pz.
Any hints available from anyone?
It's not the emitters that flip. There is a script attached to a CRPL core located under the inhibitor. 3 times a second it checks every 4th cell on the map. If there is creeper on that cell, it adds more creeper, if there is anti-creeper, it adds more anti-creeper.
So once you have a working inventory of anti-creeper, you can nullify the anti-creeper emitter and use the power zone for a unit. Similarly for the creeper emitters - you *must* eliminate them to stop them from starting the process all over again.
The "flip emitter" part is a bit of a misnomer - more accurate is "flip-terrain" :)
I've refined the idea a some more in a new map, still a bit of an experiment but there could be some interesting score optimisation strategies, the depth of creeper is much more manageable now. I'd give that one a go before spending too long on this one.
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=23121.0
In a few days, I'd like to see a few screenshots on starting this map. I've now tried about to my limit of frustration and while I can last around 10-15 minutes, I still lose - mostly I think due to the vast energy drain from spores.
Quote from: Karsten75 on January 12, 2017, 10:29:40 AM
In a few days, I'd like to see a few screenshots on starting this map. I've now tried about to my limit of frustration and while I can last around 10-15 minutes, I still lose - mostly I think due to the vast energy drain from spores.
I just gave this a go arrogantly thinking I could help, I lost miserably. This is one tough cookie.
The wave of 80 spores is just too demoralising for me! I can't juggle the beams quickly enough even with range and rate both upgraded to 100. I can take one emitter but cannot clear the creep in time to use it before the first 80 wave.
Sounds like you getting to the same place as me. I've tried a go without defending against the spores but they take out the power cells too quickly for me to replace eventually.
Finally finished it.... tough map.. great idea well done!! enjoyed the challenge.
Here's how i did it..
Spoiler
Its fairly straight forward to get to the emitter left of the starting point and nullify it. After that instead of going after another one i kept clearing to the edge of the map, and worked up and down with a row of blasters. with two berthas on the pa's you can keep the creeper away from the base whilst establishing a clear area to the left. it doesn't take too much before you get to a neutral position so the ac your creating keeps the creeper stationary, then its just a case of moving your offense forwards bit by bit. this was the point i ran it at x4 so my time should easily be beaten.
Nicely done bud! How did you deal with the spore onslaught with both PZs tied up with Bertha?
I'd really love to see a starting position, 5-minutes in and maybe 10 minutes in.
Quote from: Karsten75 on January 13, 2017, 02:17:18 PM
I'd really love to see a starting position, 5-minutes in and maybe 10 minutes in.
The first 5 minutes should go something like this
Spoiler
- Tap energy
- Build grid of collectors as big as possible
- Nullify AC emitter, put bertha on PZ
- Build as many reactors as possible
- When spores get heavy build beams
- Use PZ bertha to work you way towards an edge of the map.
Quote from: Karsten75 on January 13, 2017, 02:17:18 PM
I'd really love to see a starting position, 5-minutes in and maybe 10 minutes in.
I got there in the end thanks to Willbirs' last post.
2,5,10 and 15 min screen shots attached.
Spoiler
In the end the spores were not a problem at all, spend all initial energy on reactors, do not build any mortors or cannons. Even in the long game they do very little, this is all about the PZ bertha and the Thor.
Once set up it wa very slow going and all of the units led to some lag but still an interesting idea.
Wow, thanks, maybe I'll give it another bash...
With my "trademark" strict layout... :)
Karsten's info is what really helped me - I didn't check the forums before trying for a last time so I didn't see Willbur's post. I didn't think to use all 4 berthas like Dom did before taking my 2nd pz, and I went to the left rather than up. Took the left PZ in under 6 minutes, which I thought was pretty decent... but Dom and Willbur's times are crazy fast. They're the Leet Haxzors, lol.
Just for fun, I used all the Mass Driver AOO's in the upper right corner, then timed bombers & berthas to set up an AC pool so I could take out the 25-spore tower. Not that it helped much but it was fun to try it. ;D
All in all, once I realized it was the actual terrain that functioned as emitters I found this pretty enjoyable! Thanks for the map and the concept! ;D
So, right, I finally did it. In a terrible time of 1:07. :( Not sure why it was so slow, but after taking the left and center emitters, it just turned into a terrible slog. I literally had to fight cell by cell to advance on the Inhibitor.
The most annoying part of this was that after about 1 hour play time, the script caused creeper inversion of AC into Creeper - this caused destruction of many of my reactors and supply lines. It may be advisable for the script to not add more AC or C if the density is at 2000.
This is bizarre. Usually I can beat a map quite comfortably once I've beaten it once. This map? I beat it, then beat it again to improve my score. Today I've twice tried and both time failed miserably. Can't figure it out.
Sometimes it depends what you've eaten that day. I recommend a hearty dose of junk food to get the brain really crankin'. Potato chips + some peanut/chocolate candy (M&M's, Reese's, etc.) can do wonders for helping ya to relax and unlock your inner pwnage. ;D