This topic is for discussion of map #4101: The Intruder
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=4101)
Author: JoaoPistori
Size: 160x160
Desc:
#CRPL (more than 110 scripts) #PAC (or) #SLEEPER This is my most hard-worked map ever. In this map you can play as creeper or you can play against creeper!! But how? Firstly you'll be asked to fight for abraxis or to fight for the creeper. As soon as you selected your side, CRPL cores will get prepared. Each mode is very different: Pac mode- you'll fight more against AC and special units (and sometimes put spores in x4) and units create runners. Abraxis mode- extremely hard and requires a lot of tactics.
Obs 1: It is called as "The Intruder" because the world is dominated by Abraxis and the Creeper is the "intruder" that invades the big machine weapon (in Abraxis mode) or the bottom of the map with an emitter (in PAC mode);
Obs 2: Don't try to press "N" (to go to the next frame) or unpausing the map BEFORE choosing your side (thinking that you can get time with units) because THE MISSION WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY FAILED and you WILL HAVE TO RESTART IT.
This looks painful to build...
Very... in special the parts of preparing crpl cores - had to make spawners for them because using a single autonomous crpl core for both was resulting in big bugs, and the fix of alternate control mode - had to create single invisible crpl cores just to enable or disable alternate control during the game (fixing boring bugs when you restart the map with unit's control, save and when loading in abraxis mode resulting in alternate control, etc.).
Quote from: JoaoPistori on December 09, 2016, 03:57:09 AM
fixing boring bugs
To be honest, some boring bugs have found their way to PAC side, such as:
1) UFO weapon clears out spore tower's target reticle.
2) Some random digitalis stopped conducting creeper. At least they stayed white even when surrounded with blue digitalis and submerged in creeper. Destroying them and then re-creating produced normal-behaving digitalis.
3) Sometimes, when creating digitalis, random health bar appeared and started following the cursor.
4) UFO weapon is inconsistent. Different mortars took from one to five shots to destroy. Some AC emitters went down in a couple of shots and some tanked full 20 and didn't die. For example, 1400 emitters at the top went down in three-four shots, but a 500 emitter nearby lived few salvos till AC thinned enough. In fact, this emitter seemingly took no damage from direct shots and could be only damaged by firing slightly off-center.
5) Something glitched out (I think it were "yellow round thingies") after multiple rocket hits and produced something like infinite explosions which probably didn't do damage (I could see health bars going up) and maybe ate my rockets (I couldn't see them passing through glitched explosions)
And a couple of questions about PAC side:
1) Are there some extra mechanics that benefit/punish you besides UFO?
2) What's the point of having runners?
Questions:
1) No, the only extra benefit are the runners... And about punishes you can count the UFO's destruction (powerzones snipers deals a lot of damage)
2) Because of the big AC coverage, runners are there to "melt" a bit of the AC under your conquested space with digitalis, and you won't need to wait too much when changing the "power-focused" emitter.
About the boring bugs:
1 and 3) This is result from "getallunitsinrange" when UFO's missiles strikes the ground. Had to make all pac cores indestructible but they still take damage showing health bar. I must have missed the attribute not to show health bar.
4) Also, as a result from "getallunitsinrange" damage mechanics, I had to put verifications so they won't damage (and destroy) powerzones and other "native" units. Those emitters were in a powerzone, so, direct shots (they deal much more damage than area damage) were detecting the powerzone and anulating the damage. It's quite an anomaly thats forces the mass spore usage.
2) Not random digitalis, but digitais that were being damaged by Berthas or the energy ball... I'm not sure why this happened. There's no script mechanics affecting digitalis.
5) Another bug that I don't know why happened. And if you save and load the map, those "yellow round thingies" will disappear. Probably it's due to the lots of crpl in the map that made the missile explode infinitely, and as a result from "getallunitsinrange" other missiles will get damaged.
//
Now I'll work in my next PF map and then work with the next "Fortress Building"s maps!
Quote from: JoaoPistori on December 09, 2016, 05:25:57 AM
Spoiler
Questions:
1) No, the only extra benefit are the runners... And about punishes you can count the UFO's destruction (powerzones snipers deals a lot of damage)
2) Because of the big AC coverage, runners are there to "melt" a bit of the AC under your conquested space with digitalis, and you won't need to wait too much when changing the "power-focused" emitter.
About the boring bugs:
1 and 3) This is result from "getallunitsinrange" when UFO's missiles strikes the ground. Had to make all pac cores indestructible but they still take damage showing health bar. I must have missed the attribute not to show health bar.
4) Also, as a result from "getallunitsinrange" damage mechanics, I had to put verifications so they won't damage (and destroy) powerzones and other "native" units. Those emitters were in a powerzone, so, direct shots (they deal much more damage than area damage) were detecting the powerzone and anulating the damage. It's quite an anomaly thats forces the mass spore usage.
2) Not random digitalis, but digitais that were being damaged by Berthas or the energy ball... I'm not sure why this happened. There's no script mechanics affecting digitalis.
5) Another bug that I don't know why happened. And if you save and load the map, those "yellow round thingies" will disappear. Probably it's due to the lots of crpl in the map that made the missile explode infinitely, and as a result from "getallunitsinrange" other missiles will get damaged.
//
Now I'll work in my next PF map and then work with the next "Fortress Building"s maps!
Thanks for a huge reply
To be honest, I didn't notice runners helping with AC at all.
All the bugs explanations were interesting to read.
I also liked red/green dot indicating if you can place emitter/spore tower. That would be nice addition to core PAC.
The main bug for me is when the big energy weapon hits it kills digitalis so that you have to destroy and rebuild it. The annoying part is that sometimes this happens and sometimes it does not, making this map very frustrating for me to play, doubt I will finish it.
Wow dude. I see why people are having problems with this map but honestly I thought it was super-cool, at least the PAC part.
I killed all the threats and let it run for another hour just to cover the map with digi & creeper. That'll teach em real good. ;D
For those having problems with digi b/c of the berthas and the super-weapon, here's my solution:
Spoiler
The super-weapon and berthas target the heaviest creeper. So have 2-3 emitters reinforcing a single emitter so it will (usually) attract the heavy fire. Then use a spore or two to build digi out from one of the non-targeted emitters. Digi builds very slowly through AC so you'll need patience.
For those of you who might think (as I did at one point) that the PAC map seems impossible b/c of the insane emitters that are protected by beams on PZ's:
Spoiler
Convert all but one of your emitters to spore towers once you have enough and attack the MIDDLE of the building that keeps shooting those giant blue frisbees at you. DO NOT target the 4 corner parts of the building, as they'll be replaced by beams in PZ's. I used 15 spores to target the building. Once you kill it you get an uber-super-UFO that shoots missiles and kills emitters and other stuff you don't want on the map anymore.
If you don't know how to take out the guppy clusters...
Spoiler
Target all your spores onto the guppy's landing location. (Assuming you have 10 or more spores this should work). Kill the guppy and it won't come back. Clap on, clap off!
Sorry this map has gotten so many negative reviews mate. It's definitely cool. A bit glitchy maybe but hey, that was a LOT of work on your part! Great job and thanks a bunch! ;)
I just finished the Abraxis map and it was an epic battle, had to restart multiple times and use many saves, a huge challenge. One of the rare maps where the Sleeper adds to the expierience however:
Spoiler
Like all sleepers it can be destroyed by sending wave after wave of snipers!
Had to use pretty much every trick in the book, a fast start was essential and made use of all of the energy siphons that pop up from time to time, some of them are quite meaty!
Having read Johnny's post I see my problem with the PAC version - patience, I have very little when it comes to edging forward, I like to rush forward all guns blazing!
Thank you guys for playing and commenting! Probably this map got low-rating due to PAC bugs and Sleeper high difficulty (my very-hard maps are "very-common" to get very-low-rating)... anyway it was good for me to see that at least someone really tried Abraxis mode until the end (my expectations were that players would give up before 15 min play and go play PAC mode), and also good to see that besides all the bugs (If I had worked until the end in fixing those boring bugs, this map would have never been posted :P) it wasn't a bad idea of gameplay.
I'm not sure if Abraxis mode became as cool as I expected due to the high difficulty, as I can see players aren't commenting much about it (there's lots of things to comment about the strategy, D0m0nik would spoil better this part from his vision of the map)
//
If possible I would like to see that did you guys think about "Fortress Building" map! As I'm planning to make more versions, I would better know what points to improve in next versions :)
For the Abraxis version of the map it is worth also pointing out as a spoiler:
Spoiler
You have 3 CNs, once the other two are ready to land you can collect all of the tech pick ups by powering the blue towers, this can be done fairly easily
I really like this map (as PAC).
It was a bit confusing at the start because some of the new units I had no idea if they were friendly or hostile.
I haven't finished the map because I cannot destroy the last four 1400+ anticreeper emitters. I think I have tried all the tricks that I know of. Any hints?
I figured it out.
Spoiler
You need the UFO missiles to destroy those emitters
My UFO on PAC map is not firing anything :o
This map is interesting, different than usual color and then all the crpl stuff
in play as creeper mode, there is so much anticreeper, digitalis grows very slowly and they also hit my emitter (using one emitter and all others phantoms), use the phantoms to hit all those anticreeper producing objects and other crpl stuff, but then the digitalis takes too long to reach the other powerzones so I can build stuff on them, but the berthas and "superweapon" destroy the digitalis completely to the point where it has to regrow from the source I wish if it was 1 bertha instead of 2 and the anticreeper 1400 at the top, it took so many waves of phantoms to take the superweapon only for it to die while I was shooting out of it near the bottom of the map, does it take lots of damage from its own shots?
This requires reload from last save thanks that there was this reminder.
Edit:
Abraxis mode is interesting you get a lot of things to benefit us in this challenging start area, what are those 5 pods and what is their purpose?
Quote from: hbarudi on July 24, 2017, 10:10:56 AM
This map is interesting, different than usual color and then all the crpl stuff
in play as creeper mode, there is so much anticreeper, digitalis grows very slowly and they also hit my emitter (using one emitter and all others phantoms), use the phantoms to hit all those anticreeper producing objects and other crpl stuff, but then the digitalis takes too long to reach the other powerzones so I can build stuff on them, but the berthas and "superweapon" destroy the digitalis completely to the point where it has to regrow from the source I wish if it was 1 bertha instead of 2 and the anticreeper 1400 at the top, it took so many waves of phantoms to take the superweapon only for it to die while I was shooting out of it near the bottom of the map, does it take lots of damage from its own shots?
This requires reload from last save thanks that there was this reminder.
Edit:
Abraxis mode is interesting you get a lot of things to benefit us in this challenging start area, what are those 5 pods and what is their purpose?
Thanks for playing it! Nice to see that you played both modes!
About the 5 pods (that needs 300 packets to activate): Each one will unlock a new upgrade tier at forge:
+2 levels for energy production and ore mining efficiency;
+2 levels for build speed;
+1 level for each weapon upgrade (range, fire rate and move speed)
Spoiler
If you get the level 5 weapon range upgrade, a sniper in the bottom-left powerzone (from the emitter, not the spore towers) can hit the big structure from safe. Note that you must terp it, so the sniper can "have vision" and fire.
So many super weapons and so much AC just pushes this into painful slog territory for the PAC side.
There's a line between 'difficult' and 'slow and tedious', you crossed it, by a lot.
Ok, so I've been working on this off and on for like 2 days, and I cannot seem to progress further than this . Can anyone tell me what the heck I'm doing wrong???
Creeper world problem game.jpgCreeper world problem game.jpg
Did you read my earlier post from long, long ago? I don't remember the map too well but I think the explanations make sense. You have to kill that multi-shielded thing on the right but be careful to only hit it in the center otherwise it'll build PZ beams on the corners. If I remember right, it takes a while to kill.
Hope this helps!
Hey Johnny, thanks so much, but I've *tried* to kill that stupid thing on the right and can't seem to get enough spores onto the target to make a difference. It drops to maybe 80% health and then heals up before the next round of spores can hit. I've switched everything to spore launchers, just as you said, and tried to sync them to hit at the same time to deal with all the beam defenses, and it's just not doing anything.
I'm trying to figure out if there's something I have to eliminate first, but I've tried everyplace I can think of targeting without much success...
(https://i.postimg.cc/v87Hsyb3/image.png)
Just so happened to have the game saved right after killing it. I was thinking I staggered the spores a bit, spreading them out so they keep hitting the base regularly rather than having them all hit at once. Looking at my game save file, I was more than 8 hours into the game (lol) so I most likely let it just run while I did something else.
Lemme know if that helps!
Ok, so I started an entire new file, did everything I did before *except* targeting the mortar on a powerzone up near the top left, and this time it works.
The information that there are beams under the four corners seems inaccurate, my spores are taking fire from them anyway, but they seem... less powerful in this file? Not sure how to account for that.
The real trick was to spread the spores out just a little, that seems to have done wonders. I did that last file, but for some reason it didn't work then.
Anyway, I'm armed with the UFO now, time to see how that thing works. Many thanks, Johnny!