This topic is for discussion of map #3847: map 147 BICKFORD PAC
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=3847)
Author: yum234
Size: 220x170
Desc:
Improved version of BIGPAC-2 The same scenario, not so hard and without big lag problems! :) Please, enjoy! #PlayAsCreeper #GoodLuck
This is improved BIGPAC-2 map without big lag problems. But I tried keep the same scenario of game.
Enjoy it, please! :)
Spoiler
Runner BickFord. You can use helps from Ranner Bickford Effect in several area of map. But BickFord Effect possible with some level (different in each area) of Creeper! In map exist 4 strategic Bickford area with pre-build emitters.
Berthas. The most annoying is 2 Berthas (with auto-target). That is why important using BickFord Effect kill it.
Runners. By controlling of growth of digital network You can send runners in some points where snipers kill it and You can create a bridge.
Beam. A lot of strong beams did not permit You simply go through the map. In some case (in the beginning) after some logical action You can use Spore Towers. But in limited area. Then Spore Tower technic will be useful in the end of game.
PZ Berthas. Very annoying. To go through the map You need to kill most part of this Berthas in Bickford area.
Creeper "knife". From some level of Creeper You can use technology of "creeper knife" to cut voides. It is very attractive using of field. Like cut butter by knife! :)
Tactic. In this game very important right tactics.
P.S. Big sorry for previuos map (BIGPAC-2) with lag problems... :-[
MUCH more playable. Still a bit of lag, but not nearly as bad as the other one. Thanks for adding an updated version!
Still rather laggy. By the time I beat it I had to wait 5 more minutes for the spores to finish off the buildings--I wish PAC maps would declare victory when you drive off the last CN. (I know, you didn't write the PAC code. It's just more of an issue with your maps.)
Thanks posting the update.
I didn't notice any lag in 1x speed and enjoyed the map much more (the other version was fun too).
Nice map as well, curiously took me exactly the same time as the previous one (46 minutes)
We need MOAR PAC!
Quote from: MasterBata on August 15, 2016, 07:06:26 AM
Nice map as well, curiously took me exactly the same time as the previous one (46 minutes)
We need MOAR PAC!
Yes. Not laggy PAC! :)
Quote from: Durkon on August 15, 2016, 05:44:36 AM
Thanks posting the update.
I didn't notice any lag in 1x speed and enjoyed the map much more (the other version was fun too).
Thank You for comments! :)
BIGPAC-2 was laggy, but harder than new version.
In reality I created within one week very very hard (and with lag) original map. Then I made more simple version (BIGPAC-2), then more simple version (BICKFORD PAC)! :)
Much more enjoyable, thanks Yum!
I imagine creating the original map and reworking it to BIGPAC-2 and reworking that map to BICKFORD PAC was quite some work.
Balancing weapons and ernergy prdouction in a way that reduces lag and keeps the experience as close as possible to BIGPAC-2 must have been difficult.
Personally I would say my improved time was mostly a result of map knowlegde and not a result of needed lag reducing simplifications.
So I guess I just wanted to elaborate my shorter comment and say thanks for putting your time into making these maps. :)
Quote from: Durkon on August 16, 2016, 03:37:37 AM
I imagine creating the original map and reworking it to BIGPAC-2 and reworking that map to BICKFORD PAC was quite some work.
Balancing weapons and ernergy prdouction in a way that reduces lag and keeps the experience as close as possible to BIGPAC-2 must have been difficult.
Personally I would say my improved time was mostly a result of map knowlegde and not a result of needed lag reducing simplifications.
So I guess I just wanted to elaborate my shorter comment and say thanks for putting your time into making these maps. :)
Thank You! :)
I just tried to create big PAC map with multiple ways to play it. Of course I designed map with possibility of some optimal way to win. Main strategy was to use 4 Bickford zone (One by one. When You achieve more high level of Creeper You may go to new zone. Then next. If level of Creeper not enough You can not get Bickford effect! ;)). Of course possible "go straight", but it will be not so elegant and enjoyable! :)
This map in only marginally better for lag than the previous 1, It is still unplayable for me.
Quote from: chwooly on August 17, 2016, 08:19:39 AM
This map in only marginally better for lag than the previous 1, It is still unplayable for me.
Very sad! :(
Also for me. There was no difference in lag. Maybe it's because I use Linux? My computer is plenty fast. I love your maps and I hope you make more smaller ones. These huge maps never play well for me.
I went back and played the original one of these and realized what I was doing to make the lag so bad. I usually play PAC maps on 4x speed. That was unplayable. When I dropped down to 1x speed it got a lot better. Still laggy but not unplayable.
Upon looking at the code, it really doesn't seem like there should be any differences between the two maps. Given that no more than 10 units are checked in any given frame, the number of units shouldn't matter at all. With the check for victory, more dead units should take longer to check but not until later in the map when the lag usually decreases. What that tells me is that the lag is caused by something other than the PAC rebuild code in Abraxis.crpl. I have no idea what, but will probably keep looking. Anybody who is familiar with the code have any other ideas what might cause the lag?
Quote from: stdout on August 18, 2016, 10:08:51 PM
Also for me. There was no difference in lag. Maybe it's because I use Linux? My computer is plenty fast. I love your maps and I hope you make more smaller ones. These huge maps never play well for me.
Thank You for comments. :)
Attempt in creating unusual and outstanding by scenario game was unsuccessful... :(
It was important experience for me. :)
What is the Bickford effect that exists in a bunch of your maps, including this one?
Bickford:
When Runners create a feedback loop.
Normally, this is a Nest with low-health, low-speed Runners, which have a very large AC payload. Initiation of the loop requires a Sniper or AC.
In PaC, it is a high Creeper payload, with Snipers nearby to constantly pop the Runners. To start this one up, you need Digi under the Runner nest. Sometimes the mapmaker will provide something to support and reseed the Digi under the Nest, but usually you must keep it connected as usual.
Still a lot of lag.
Also, far too many PZs. Which in itself isn't a bad thing from a player perspective, but of course it means a lot of resistance to make the map interesting, which means TONS of white lines obscuring the map and making it hard to see whether the creeper is flowing as expected.
Also, large maps make it hard to get an overall picture. In the end I find it simpler so just mass up creeper and focus just on one part of the map at a time, and just slog through it, but that's not much fun. It's satisfying in a sense once you finish it, but that satisfaction isn't worth the slog.
One other thing: It would be nice if I could kill the AC spore towers. They're important and interesting initially, but just annoying later. 45 towers sending -2000 each time they fire serves no purpose other than to set up a thick AC layer everywhere, just slowing down progress without changing strategy much.
Well okay once you're stabilized, a lot of the map is mostly just an annoyance - the thick layers of AC waiting for you in every corner of the map, the narrow-access island in the middle which isn't worth dedicating extra spores to and which died anyway but it wasn't clear before the end.