This topic is for discussion of map #3630: map 98 LARVA
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=3630)
Author: yum234
Size: 250x160
Desc:
So much hate! 5 minutes after I uploaded this map and immediately somebody rate "1". Without playing! It is disrespectful to the work of those who are trying to create games and do World of CW3 more interesting!
What I am creating wrong? In CW2 it was more friendly atmosphere. I created more than 20% of maps in CW2 and hope made CW2 World more interesting and better!
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=12121.0
In CW3 very unfair rating system if 4-5 haters WITHOUT PLAYING AND SUBMITTING SCORE can do so and administration of CW3 do nothing to prevent such activity! Just strongly push out me from CW3!
DON'T YOU CARE?
P.S. It was my last map in CW3.
SAYONARA MINASAMA! (Goodbye in Japanese, politely)
Sadly the internet is one great big connected village, and every village has its idiot, and the idiot thinks shouting anonymous abuse at you is worthwhile. Perhaps one of your maps trapped him and now he's forever angry?
Anyway I liked this map so far - have to resume tomorrow as have "invested" too much time tonight (just triggered the "tripwire" surrounding the island by hitting it hard enough to provoke a creeper flood, silly me :-( ), and even though I sometimes have to give up on them I've never had anything but respect for your designs. So I hope it proves not really to be "sayonara" but more "auf wiedersehen" (i.e. goodbye - until we see you again)
While it's not polite to call people idiots, anonymous down-rating is not helpful to anyone.
I suspect a script has been used, based on the regular and speedy low ratings you complain of.
Keep in mind that if they had any real cause for complaint, they could put something up here.
Does this happen to all maps (not just yours), and is it one person, do we know?
Your maps consistently rate well over time. I can't keep up with you, but every map I have played has been well-crafted and enjoyable.
I do think that a review of the rating system might be good, but recall that it takes time to play a map. Give it a week, and I would predict that the 9/10s will outnumber anything else.
Finally, recall that not everyone submits a score, and that maps winnable only by "cheats", or CRPLed "magic strings" could be rated 10 by the mapmaker, and stay there, due to being impossible by legitimate means, so no scores are submitted, and so no ratings under your proposed system.
I propose a system which shows no ratings for a week after upload, to give time for real people to play a map. Then, a boxplot (ignoring the outliers) is shown, giving an idea of the rating distribution. This would more accurately reflect the consensus, and might put an end to the kind of issue that you refer to.
(Failing that, pad the rating history to 20 opinions with neutral ones, thus stopping anyone from having an undue effect. As real ratings come in, the dummy values will be discarded, until the ratings finally reflect at least a sample of the community.)
As has been said before, ignore the ratings, look at the feedback on the forum.
1. Haters maybe don't use forum. :-\
2. I am pretty sure all mapmakers here in CW3 have at least 1 hater. 8)
3. I am not one rating your maps badly , but I would like your maps more with less void and smaller size IMO. :)
If the [people responsible] used the forum, or had anything worth saying, then it would be said.
The other thing is that nobody is under any obligation to play any map. So, if they don't like yours, they can play others. While they do that, the rest of us continue to enjoy your maps, and hope for more.
Another great map! I was able to snag the Thor tech at the opening which was a great feeling. I hope you continue to make maps because you have a lot of fans!
Quote from: yum-forum on June 05, 2016, 07:23:15 PM
So much hate! 5 minutes after I uploaded this map and immediately somebody rate "1". Without playing! It is disrespectful to the work of those who are trying to create games and do World of CW3 more interesting!
What I am creating wrong? In CW2 it was more friendly atmosphere. I created more than 20% of maps in CW2 and hope made CW2 World more interesting and better!
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=12121.0
In CW3 very unfair rating system if 4-5 haters WITHOUT PLAYING AND SUBMITTING SCORE can do so and administration of CW3 do nothing to prevent such activity! Just strongly push out me from CW3!
DON'T YOU CARE?
P.S. It was my last map in CW3.
SAYONARA MINASAMA! (Goodbye in Japanese, politely)
Why do you care of this YUM ? We unfortunately face this attitude everywhere in world... even in games ! Maybe these rates are from very young children who play with their parents computer and believe like this taking revenge from their school teacher...
If you leave, THEY WIN ! How much are they comparing to all the cool players around ?
hope to see you soon.
Quote from: stdout on June 06, 2016, 11:05:29 AM
Another great map! I was able to snag the Thor tech at the opening which was a great feeling. I hope you continue to make maps because you have a lot of fans!
Indeed, to the point that the forum has at least one dedicated tribute thread.
Stop crying and make us another map. We love you.
Aahhh, rage quit :) Yum, all of your maps are yummy yum, this one is 7.95, which is really high from 38 scores.
P.s. i took thor tech as last. Had head scarstching for 2 minutes why i haven't won the game..
p.p.s. is this rage quit real? if so, we need to fix this and get him back, we love you!!!!!!!!!!
Yum,Out of 111 maps that you have made, I have not played 5, there are 3 I have not finished and might go back, therefore I think it is safe to say that I have good knowledge of your map quality. So overall you have had a few 10's, and you have had a few 1's that is just the way it works. Not everything we do is perfect and meets everyone's standards.
If you are doing this just for likes then you are going to be very unhappy, just make them because you enjoy them, Ignore the haters and revel in the likes....
By the way thanks for making these maps,
Quote from: stdout on June 06, 2016, 11:05:29 AM
Another great map! I was able to snag the Thor tech at the opening which was a great feeling. I hope you continue to make maps because you have a lot of fans!
How did you pull that off? I tried multiple methods and while I got really close I just couldn't quite get it.
I also agree with the sentiments...keep making maps!
One other thought Yum, I would bet that those 1's you get are from people that have tried the map and failed many times. Even with hints and spoilers some maps are not suited for some play styles. Don't be so sensitive....Most of your maps are very good, you can't have 100% percent likes. Just not possible....
Quote from: chwooly on June 14, 2016, 02:23:58 AM
One other thought Yum, I would bet that those 1's you get are from people that have tried the map and failed many times. Even with hints and spoilers some maps are not suited for some play styles. Don't be so sensitive....Most of your maps are very good, you can't have 100% percent likes. Just not possible....
I understand this very well. Impossible to create only very nice maps...
But haters rate "1" immediately after uploading and not care about difficulty of game!
And thanks to recent unfair rating system they do not have even to try playing.
I noticed one more bad things in rating system:
Haters now became also hackers. They can rate not only "1" but even "0" (not "no rating" - real rate "0")! It possible perhaps only if they knows source code of game! And they do so when rating of game became high!
For example history of rating for my map #77:
(resulting rating) (number of scores) (last rate mathematically calculated)
..........................................
8.64 123 9
8.65 124 10
8.66 125 10
8.60 126 1 usual hater
8.61 127 9
8.62 128 10
8,61 129 8
8.61 130 8
8.61 131 9
8.61 132 9
8.55 133
0 unusual hater/hacker8.54 134 7
8.56 135 10+2 (10 and somebody changed previous rating)
8.58 137 9, 10
8.57 138 8
8.59 140 10, 10
8.60 141 10
8.61 142 10
8.55 143
0 unusual hater/hacker8.56 144 10
It means that rating system not controllable by administration and possible manipulate....
Very very unfair!P.S.
Very easy to prevent such activity: just do not permitte to rate map without finishing it!
I don't believe that it's possible to rate under 1 , maybe number of scores still doesn't tell all , cause you can rate without winning map?
Try starting make maps in other author name and tell new name here in forums?
Or maybe you must also change map making style if you change map making name?
Quote from: Builder17 on June 14, 2016, 07:29:15 AM
I don't believe that it's possible to rate under 1 , maybe number of scores still doesn't tell all , cause you can rate without winning map?
Try starting make maps in other author name and tell new name here in forums?
Or maybe you must also change map making style if you change map making name?
Mathematics is an exact science! :)
It is not problem of only my maps. In case of Your maps and maps of other authors also sometimes haters do so.
But I like statistics and find weak point of recent rating system.
All that is needed from the administration - not significantly changing the rating system to make one little amendment!
It does mean pushing out a new version of the game, and disabling ratings from all older versions unless a score is submitted...
However, those of us with no control over the rating system still enjoy your maps, and hope for more. Perhaps if the author is forbidden to rate, and others permitted only after winning... But this is best implemented in PF. I continue to favour the idea of showing the rating distribution, rather than collapsing it to a single number. This could also be broken into won/not won sections. Show the victorious in full colour, and the incomplete in muted tones. And rate by difficulty and fun, in different sections.
That's my opinion, and it only remains to request a mostly void, partially stars map.
Until what I hope will be next time.
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 14, 2016, 08:01:45 AM
It does mean pushing out a new version of the game, and disabling ratings from all older versions unless a score is submitted...
I had long experience in IT field and I think that very easy change soft on server side without new version of the game and disabling current rating.
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 14, 2016, 08:01:45 AM
However, those of us with no control over the rating system still enjoy your maps, and hope for more. Perhaps if the author is forbidden to rate, and others permitted only after winning... But this is best implemented in PF. I continue to favour the idea of showing the rating distribution, rather than collapsing it to a single number. This could also be broken into won/not won sections. Show the victorious in full colour, and the incomplete in muted tones. And rate by difficulty and fun, in different sections.
That's my opinion, and it only remains to request a mostly void, partially stars map.
Until what I hope will be next time.
Your idea attractive for me but in this case really will be necessary new version of game. :)
P.S. Manipulation with rating (as now) means neglecting action of normal players who rate maps...
Yum, Life is unfair.
If you make it so that only those that finish a map can rate that is not fair either, There are maps that I have rated that I can't finish.
So if I spend an hour and do 15 restarts but can't finish I shouldn't be able to rate? Most likely I am going to rate it low but that is how it is, that also lets you know that it is has some issues and that people don't want maps that only feed to a specific game play.
A note: Give it a week, we said, it'll get a good rating, we said. Result: Good rating.
It takes seconds to give up, but minutes to succeed, so give the ratings from people who won time to come in.
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 15, 2016, 12:40:44 AM
A note: Give it a week, we said, it'll get a good rating, we said. Result: Good rating.
It takes seconds to give up, but minutes to succeed, so give the ratings from people who won time to come in.
Kind of philosophy. I respect it. :)
Quote from: chwooly on June 14, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
Yum, Life is unfair.
Generally You are right. But humans try to create a better and more fair life! :)
Quote from: chwooly on June 14, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
If you make it so that only those that finish a map can rate that is not fair either, There are maps that I have rated that I can't finish.
So if I spend an hour and do 15 restarts but can't finish I shouldn't be able to rate? Most likely I am going to rate it low but that is how it is, that also lets you know that it is has some issues and that people don't want maps that only feed to a specific game play.
Partially I agree with You. Some maps very hard (for instance, most of maps of Sorrontis or ea3401 in CW2) but it is not means that they are bad. I never rate map if I not finished it. One more example. I played last map of Master Kalek. Made more than 20 restarts and can not finish it! And still vaiting for hints in Forum... :-[ But I played all other his maps and very enjoyed. :)
In case of my maps haters/hackers rate absolutly playable (mostly easy to start and multi-variant) maps in the begining or when rating became high. This is different case. Not specific game play.
Essentially, we ask that you follow the philosophy that is on the forum guide: "ignore what you don't like, praise what you do".
Ignore the ratings, look at the comments. Because
Spoiler
many of us await your next map, and some are probably running out of back catalogue... (hint)
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 15, 2016, 10:14:26 PM
Essentially, we ask that you follow the philosophy that is on the forum guide: "ignore what you don't like, praise what you do".
Ignore the ratings, look at the comments. Because Spoiler
many of us await your next map, and some are probably running out of back catalogue... (hint)
Thank You! Good suggestion in spoiler even for me. :)
P.S. As said "Terminator" - I will come back! :)
As I recall, the next we see of it, it's crunching through the wall in a mechanical construct.
Desperately waiting for more yum maps. I know I can (and do) go back and play old ones but I want fresh new yums!
Alright, my interest was piqued so I took a quick look.
For map 3630 as of the time of this writing there are 64 ratings.
They are:
Eleven 10's
Nineteen 9's
Twenty 8's
Four 7's
Eight 6's
One 5
One 1
Looking at the "1" and seeing what other ratings that user gave out I see he/she has 11 ratings. They are:
9,8,8,7,7,5,5,1,1,1,1
It looks like 3630 is actually a really successful and highly rated map. The single "1" comes from a person who hands out 1's, but not exclusively or mostly. So in spite of the normal negatives associated with the internet, etc.... I'd say this is on the rosy end of the spectrum. Most people, most of the time are fighting the good fight around here. Maybe even more than normal compared to similar places on the internet at large.
For map #77, these are the raw ratings as of 'now':
10,10,10,10,10,10,9,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,7,7,7,7,7,7,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,5,5,5,5,5,4,3,3,3,2,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1
One thing I do see that I'll take care of next week is that some ratings are associated with inappropriate user names. I'll go through an do some fancy sql and clean out those ratings. My bet is some 1's are associated with those actors and removing their ratings will help just a tad...
A shot in the dark... but would a filter to identify users with only 1s as ratings be useful for bad-name detection more generally?
And looking back to the complaint at the start of the thread, it appears that some users may begin a map by setting the minimum rating, then playing and updating it once they have evidence. This, while reasonable, will artificially depress the ratings for a short time after upload.
Quote from: virgilw on June 16, 2016, 10:37:08 PM
Alright, my interest was piqued so I took a quick look.
One thing I do see that I'll take care of next week is that some ratings are associated with inappropriate user names. I'll go through an do some fancy sql and clean out those ratings. My bet is some 1's are associated with those actors and removing their ratings will help just a tad...
Thank You for so kind replay! Life in CW3 is not so unfair! :)
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 16, 2016, 10:49:46 PM
And looking back to the complaint at the start of the thread, it appears that some users may begin a map by setting the minimum rating, then playing and updating it once they have evidence. This, while reasonable, will artificially depress the ratings for a short time after upload.
You are not right. I have full (historical sequence of rating) statistics for my last 29 maps. And it was only one case when after "1" it was updated to more high rating significantly.
Ignore me. Some days it seems a wonder that I remember to keep breathing in and out. The brain moves, as does the mouth, but sometimes they must become disconnected.
Quote from: GoodMorning on June 17, 2016, 06:50:10 AM
Ignore me. Some days it seems a wonder that I remember to keep breathing in and out. The brain moves, as does the mouth, but sometimes they must become disconnected.
:)