This topic is for discussion of map #2441: Tripwire
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=2441)
Author: warren
Size: 72x72
Desc:
The toughest level yet. Can you crack the security? #CRPL
What with Sorrontis and Pastor.Healer dominating the map production with really hard maps recently, what I thought the community really needs is another really hard map.
I really have no clue what is going on here... so I'll carry on?
No, seriously, what's the goal?
Presumably the emitters need to be killed while active. There are 5 spots where you can place a unit without triggering any emitters, but I have no idea what to do with them. It's possible to build a thor in the center, but it'll be incredibly slow to build and charge with that limited space, so I doubt that's a solution. Trying to grab the aether doesn't accomplish much either except flooding the level, so I'm guessing thor and aether are both traps.
So, uh, can you give us a hint?
Quote from: planetfall on August 28, 2015, 09:23:23 PM
...hint?
I certainly can. Most of your guesses are correct, except nothing is a trap. Getting the aethyr packs can be considered a training mission, if you will. If you can get all of them, you are 50% of the way to solving it.
Spoiler
The top-center spot seems to be able to nullify a few enemies, but I can't see any wires actually leading to them.
Spoiler
There are eight domes that won't activate by any wire immediately visible.
However, the top center is probably a good weak area in the defences. It is not the one I used in my test run, however.
Wow.
You sir are a genius. That has to be one of my all time favourite maps. Brilliant! :)
Really? It's not even classic yet. Give it a few months.
This was really great, actually one of your easier maps! Not sure how 6 mins was done though! Defo work a replay.
Spoiler
Bit of a weird one - I terped an area form 3 height to 4 and I could land a guppy in it without triggering a line, I terped another next to it but when I landed a guppy it triggered. I can also land guppies in the corners without triggering anything, what's going on?
I actually found that in testing!
Spoiler
Guppies are 1x1 structures according to the system, even though they occupy a 3x3 grid. The wires are designed to work off a thing's size, rather than a thing's occupied area.
Another thing I found, Thors report as landed at all times, even though they are flying ships! Go figure.
Oh, when I rate difficulty, I am usually thinking along the lines "How hard is this to complete with a good time?" Where hard means "How many times will I need to restore a save?" and good means "Within 50% of the best possible time." This is obviously easy(ish) to complete, if you wait an hour to build and charge a Thor.
I never cared for CRPL. But this very interesting.
Spoiler
I found a guppy can land near the lower right totem, without triggering any of the emitters. So I built the Forge and let it collect Aether. Also a terp can adjust the elevation without triggering the emitters. So building a platform around the red rectangle seemed like a good idea. Once I had maxed out fire rate, range, storage etc. I began approaching emitters at the top. Huge drop in power reserves. But managed a few nullifiers. Eventually, I found, its the where the "wires" start that un-shields the emitters. Setting anything on two or three wires exposes some emitters. A pulse cannon on a PZ and a nullifier on another make short work.of this map.
That was SUPREMELY satisfying. I wish I could give it 100/10.
Quote...100/10
Quote...But this very interesting.
Top reviews from the harshest critics and broken rating scales. I can now retire happily. No more maps from me. :P
Well, kudos to those who've made it. I've yet to nullify a single emitter. Everything I do, I get flooded.
Well, assuming you've tried several strategies, here is a final hint to enhance those strategies. (Only for those trying for a fastish solution)
Spoiler
Pieces are limited as you want to step on as few wires as possible. So... 1 shield, 1 blaster, 1 mortar, 1 relay, 1 nullifier.
To place all those pieces, you will need to step on two wires. The one for the emitter to nullify, and a wire for a distant emitter.
Pause the game before the first piece lands and make last minute adjustments. you want them to land at the same time.
I used less pieces:
Spoiler
The key for me is that to nullify something you only have to trigger a wire for two seconds, once to make a emitter emerge (hit pause and place the nullifier) and then a second time when the nullifier is fully charged to make the emitter reappear. When I hit my first emitter I had one mortar and one cannon on level 10 platforms with one nullifier charged by a guppy with a another guppy flying over head to take over.
Guppies can land in very small spaces because, as Warren pointed out, they only register on one dot of land instead of the usual 9 so no need for relays.
You can land guppies at all four corners without triggering off an emitter!
I go on holiday for two weeks but would love to spend more time on this, I am sure could get under 20 mins, just nee to work out which is the softest spot, for my initial run I went south just to the right. Hope I've not added too many spoilers Warren, I know its nice to keep some mystery but you seem happy to share tips on this one, it is a very interesting challenge!
Wow, absolutely wow, stayed up well past my bedtime because I wanted to get the thing out (I'm a teacher, not a kid :)).
Didn't try the guppies, but lots of terraforming to avoid my first nullifiers being washed away by creeper.
Warren, I am blown away by this map! I just got accepted at M.I.T. and will take a course on CRPL so that I can come close to what you have done here.
As a side note, I read your comment about not making any more maps... Warren, don't listen to critics in life. Oh by the way, did I mention, "DO NOT LISTEN
TO THE CRITICS IN LIFE!" :)
Keep up the great work here and there... Blessings
Well, thanks for the praise several people on this map. It is somewhat interesting. The only popular map of mine that uses less code than this one is that one with the freeze effect. The two scripts are really small, and one is only used in creating the map.
Currently, the dome has to be placed at the start of the drawn wire or it will crash. If anyone wants to use wires in their own maps, I can upload a bugfixed version, with the <spoiler> exploit removed and a couple speed optimizations.
This map is perfect!! :)
Thanks for making it, I enjoyed playing it a lot.
Well done warren.
You've made a map that everyone's talking about.
And in a good way!
Actually neat concept. As I understand, you have to take out ALL of those emitters, as usual? I noticed that red signals disable the emitters, and green signals enable them. I, probably like a lot of other people, was skeptical of the signals, and it nearly broke me...
Now I'm curious. What was there to be skeptical about? (for research purposes as I am a student of design and need to understand user experience.)
Briefly:
- This is an extremely original and very interesting map.
- I am sure that IPWIW achieved his result by illegal means (fact stands his unenviable statistics and already registered illegal results on other maps).
- I am confident that I can beat his time:), just that I need more free time because the number of variables requiring simultaneous control is too large.
- warren, my compliments.
Thank you very much.
I would be surprised if you can beat 10 minutes, as those are 50 strength emitters, and at least 10 nullifiers are needed, and energy is tight. I too have wondered if I could make 6 minutes, but I think it is impossible.
Wow, this one's quite a puzzle but eminently doable. I really can't understand the short times, though!
I have to disagree with some of what has been said in this thread about strategy, though:
Spoiler
You can use more pieces in an attack. Once you have stepped on a wire it's stepped on, stepping on it again does nothing. There are places where you can place multiple pieces so as to step on only one wire. I terped them up to level 10, it wasn't that hard to keep the creep off and build a nullifier.
As for the emitters with no wires--some wires run along underneath the emitters.
Finally, once you have reached the outside edge you can step on a wire and start a nullifier then move the piece that's stepping on the wire. The emitter closes up but the nullifier still builds. When it's ready to fire step again, ideally on as many wires at once that it can hit. This means you don't need to keep killing the creep while it builds.
I finally got a chance to sit down and play the map all the way through. 10/10 and favorited. It took me about an hour to beat it but a lot of that time was spent just letting it run and watching the packets. I am certain I can get a good time and am looking forward to replaying this and seeing how much better I can do. Thanks War! Great map.
Today I shall make a hat of spinach and then eat it. A score was posted under six minutes. That is insane.
I can almost imagine doing it in 15 minutes.
Also I am really happy that everyone likes this map. I did not expect this. Thank you for your comments.
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Awarded for extreme speed to Alter Old (5:39.7)
I too thought (and still think) IPWIW posted a fraudulent score purely on the grounds that I thought it impossible to get under 10 mins.
Alter Olds score however is incredible, if anyone hasn't seen them check out his 2 youtube videos, it is a real education!
Just had another run at it to come under 15, still no where near the 10 min mark let alone the 6 min!
The real challenge is not in taking down the first emitter, the time is in the clean up! This is relatively fast due to all the PZs but the only way I can see to advance quicker is to fight on two fronts from the very start. I had to concentrate hard just to fight on one front let alone two or even three which is why I will never get close to Alters score!
Some things I learnt on my rerun contrary to an earlier post
Spoiler
You don't need to terra form much land, one square 8 high in range of 3 emitters is a good start. perhaps repeat this on different sides of the map to open multiple fronts.
You don't need the forge immediately, early power needs to be saved
Having said that you need very little energy to win this map
Guppies are not worth the time and expense, you have three CNs that can connect units (nullifiers) to your base without touching the ground. This is the trick I think to the map but the concentration and time needed to hover 2 CNs is large and if one touches down, disaster!
This map just keeps on giving!
So.... After "million" tries without even coming close to sucess i discovered i can land the Command nodes on the middle red place where it says "Keep trying" without triggering any emiter.
Off to win this thing.
That was super neat! Thanks for the map!
Would that I had found this sooner.
Quote from: Sorrontis on August 29, 2015, 11:49:18 PM
Well, kudos to those who've made it. I've yet to nullify a single emitter. Everything I do, I get flooded.
Well, you're able to beat every single map that you make, but not this one? :o
Quote from: WithersChat on April 28, 2020, 11:47:47 AM
Spoiler
Quote from: Sorrontis on August 29, 2015, 11:49:18 PM
Well, kudos to those who've made it. I've yet to nullify a single emitter. Everything I do, I get flooded.
Well, you're able to beat every single map that you make, but not this one? :o
You'd be surprised to know I'm a horrible player.
Ok, this was some good stuff.
The real battle is clearing the first one emitter.
After that one can safe-ish neutralize at a distance using the PZ range, and it becomes much easier.
Very handy trips/tricks:
Spoiler
Can trip a trigger wire with just a building plan, no actual construction (or even power to do so) is needed.
Can trip a trigger wire that is under creep, simply by placing a building plan on the tripwire while a power pulse is right there.
Can trigger an emitter for 1/2 second, start construction on the neutralizer, then *disable* the neutralizer. It will finish building and charging. Now trigger ALL the emitters in its range, enable neutralizer, and get a 7-for-the-price-of-1 deal. Even including the emitter right next to the neutralizer, NO amount of creep will be able to kill it before the firing sequence finishes! Just make sure you re-trigger any emitters in range while firing.
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the pulsing running lines are a bit of a migraine trigger, so any sensitives be careful.