This topic is for discussion of map #1741: Arc Eternal Redemption - Viscosity Engine
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1741)
Author: Hubs
Size: 160x90
Desc:
Arc Eternal Redemption: Viscosity Engine (Part 6) Relive the campaign as the creeper! Reclaim the worlds cleansed by Abraxis and get redemption. An advanced new defense technology has been discovered by Abraxis. You must destroy it at all costs. Control the creeper and destroy everything you see. #PlayAsCreeper #PACRedemption
*yawn* Yet another PZ-mortairs-guarded-by-PZ-beams PAC map. All of that paired with 20 seconds spore towers.
I'm trying to get into the PAC maps, but so many of them seem to be the same map with very slight modifications.
I've seen very few that require/allow any kind of variation of tactics, and only a couple I would consider 'fun'.
Slowly pushing Creeper and Digitalis across the screen - with no chance of using other weapons - simply has no appeal.
Lots of our players seem to really like these, which is cool - and there's always the DMD available (and CW2).
H
I wondered what that new building did and noticed quite soon that the creep was getting weaker. I had to restart then attacked the map a different way and I enjoyed playing it. I also looked at your script for that building and the way you script is a pleasure to read. Great work as usual :)
Personally, I have stopped building maps at the moment whilst I learn more about the coding as I have so many ideas that I want to try but don't have the knowledge to do so at present. I wish I knew what you knew :)
Cheers
Xeos
strigvir and helper, did you even play the map? Didn't see any scores from you guys. This is not a regular PAC map.
Quote from: Helper on February 18, 2015, 06:28:36 AM
Slowly pushing Creeper and Digitalis across the screen - with no chance of using other weapons - simply has no appeal.
I totally get that and if you're not into it, that's fine. Part of what I aim to take care of with this series is to add variety to PAC maps, which is why I've been adding new units like the Hyper tower and Viscosity Engine and changing different game parameters like the creeper flow rate. Adds a unique element of gameplay.
Quote from: Xeos on February 18, 2015, 07:08:28 AM
I wondered what that new building did and noticed quite soon that the creep was getting weaker. I had to restart then attacked the map a different way and I enjoyed playing it. I also looked at your script for that building and the way you script is a pleasure to read. Great work as usual :)
Personally, I have stopped building maps at the moment whilst I learn more about the coding as I have so many ideas that I want to try but don't have the knowledge to do so at present. I wish I knew what you knew :)
Thanks Xeos! Let me know if you need help with any CRPL projects. I've been coding for over 12 years, so I'll pass on what I can :)
Quote from: Hubs on February 18, 2015, 08:19:21 AM
strigvir and helper, did you even play the map? Didn't see any scores from you guys. This is not a regular PAC map.
I would never comment on a map that I had not attempted.
Gave up after about an hour of futility.
H
I thought I had a pretty slow time but ended up in the second place. After some failed attemps I went all the way around the base along the bottom and attacked from the NE corner. Once the PZ beam was down I replaced half of my emitters with spore towers. After 2 waves the spores started to hit the ground and everything was destroyed in a minute.
Nice use of the flow rate command, however after the engine was destroyed it felt a bit like a slog. Endgame was good and fast.
Yeah, I debated "how far in" the engine should be. I wanted to avoid having it too far and people getting stuck because they didn't destroy it fast enough and now they have to restart after wasting 20+ minutes.
It was fun creating that thing because I got to experiment with some of the commands I haven't used before like CreateEffect, SetCreeperFlowRate, SetCreeperColors (If you wait too long the creeper gradually turns dark grey as it thickens), and CreateMist. I'm definately open to suggestions for improvement with it and placement/gameflow. I'd like to use it again in future maps.
The first time I played I destroyed the tower before it had a chance to show any effects. So I had to play a second time and let the tower do its thing. Neat effect! With the tower at 100%, if you send a few spores to one place you can easily get it to flip over to AC, which is another nasty side effect of the tower.
Great game. I enjoyed it.
Perhaps make it charge faster and make it useful to the player when it's at 100% so that spores can destroy targets more easily (splash damage of Abraxis weapons is wasted). It is at least a good time limit that doesn't immediatly cause you to lose or restart.
Quote from: stdout on February 18, 2015, 12:10:56 PM
The first time I played I destroyed the tower before it had a chance to show any effects. So I had to play a second time and let the tower do its thing. Neat effect! With the tower at 100%, if you send a few spores to one place you can easily get it to flip over to AC, which is another nasty side effect of the tower.
Great game. I enjoyed it.
Hmm, didn't realize it did that, but that's awesome! I think in future maps I'll have it charge faster so you have a minute or two to grab some PZs, then it's spore time :)
Next map in the series is Navox: JoJo (http://knucklecracker.com/wiki/doku.php?id=cw3:gallery_of_mission_maps). I'm thinking about doing AC volcanos out of the larger mountains, or maybe tint the AC red and have it harm Abraxis units like lava.
Quote from: Hubs on February 18, 2015, 01:12:38 PM
Next map in the series is Navox: JoJo (http://knucklecracker.com/wiki/doku.php?id=cw3:gallery_of_mission_maps). I'm thinking about doing AC volcanos out of the larger mountains, or maybe tint the AC red and have it harm Abraxis units like lava.
really we need
two types of creeper? ::)
but in normal maps that might be fun, mutually destructive creeper warring over a world, the player has to clean both, but one at a time of both at once?.... :o
right oh, good idea it is (with reservations) hop to it code monkey! ;)
having started this map i can say it's fun, but i don't appreciate the AC colour choice being forced on me. i like purple/red AC and blue creeper. ::)
please don't make me have brown AC again! it's awful, and hard to see, if you wanted hard to see AC i can understand, but whats the point if you did? ???
please...... 8)
Quote from: teknotiss on February 18, 2015, 04:21:16 PM
having started this map i can say it's fun, but i don't appreciate the AC colour choice being forced on me. i like purple/red AC and blue creeper. ::)
please don't make me have brown AC again! it's awful, and hard to see, if you wanted hard to see AC i can understand, but whats the point if you did? ???
please...... 8)
The AC color change is a glitch. I didn't realize that until after the map was finalized. That will be fixed with future maps using the viscosity engine.
ahhh groovy, that's a bit of a relief. i think it was actually transparent. still 10/10 from me, great map! 8)
I didn't get to finish because honestly most of the latest PAC maps are just constant brushing pixel-by-pixel with no thought whatsoever. If you put PZ-beam covering the 1/3rd of the time constrained map, at least allow us to view its range so we wouldn't have to guess it with 20s spores. Putting a PZ-mortar under a PZ-beam means we can't take out a mortar by cutting it off from the energy net and the only way to get it is to brush-brush-brush. Oh, and it's not possible to see the results of brushing during a pause so we have to do it in real-time.
The beam<->spores problem isn't unique to PAC maps though, as spores are mainly a pushover in vanilla game too. If you have less than "number of spores/2" beams then you get wrecked, otherwise they do nothing. PZ-beam solves all spore problems in its massive range and that mechanic doesn't do any favour for PAC maps.
The other problem is we have to micromanage spore towers in order for them to do anything. They certainly need some automatisation in targeting non-protected buildings by their own in "free-fire" mode, instead of randomly shooting into heavy protected areas. Mortars and berthas after all autotarget the thickest creeper without the player needing to guide each their shot.
And the reason for my rant is because this map reuses the vanilla campaign map but plays nothing like a flipped version of it, unlike previous maps in the series.
Tell us how your really feel, strigvir! ;D
Spores do automatically target buildings. They aren't just randomly throwing spores out there.
And you can brush digitalis while paused. You just don't see the effect until the next frame. Hit the letter "N" while paused to advance just one frame (1/30th of a second)
I enjoyed the map. The creeper totally froze on me and I was stumped until I realized I could draw single pixel lines. Slow going, but when I finally took down the tower all the lines of creeper exploded. That was an awesome effect to watch.
I really don't understand strigvir's rants. They seem to rail against PAC games in general and have nothing to do with this specific map. If he doesn't like PAC, then don't play 'em. Sheesh.
strigvir, I actually agree with you on the PZ beam issue. They're so overpowered that spores become useless. As for this being a brush-brush-brush map, that's kinda what PAC maps are. Regardless, everyone has their own taste in maps and I can't please everyone :).
Quote from: TimeWeaver on February 18, 2015, 10:40:46 PM
I enjoyed the map. The creeper totally froze on me and I was stumped until I realized I could draw single pixel lines. Slow going, but when I finally took down the tower all the lines of creeper exploded. That was an awesome effect to watch.
Yeah, the frozen creeper mechanics are really cool to experiement with and create some cool effects.
I really, really liked, at first I thought letting that machine do its work would certainly make that map impossible, until I realized spore towers still worked, and become a lot better at taking out turrets when the creeper doesn't move from its spot :P
It took me a while to get at the tower before 100%, but I did it eventually. Thanks, Hubs, for another really interesting map. I enjoyed it! :)
I liked the viscosity engine idea, but the process of breaking past the PZ mortar+PZ beam combination was terribly frustrating. I was expecting breaking through into the right center to be pretty much impossible, but once I took out the structures on the right, the humans started having energy issues (I guess it was all the PZ collectors I destroyed back there). I'm wishing there was some way to see the enemy's exact energy production/usage numbers in PAC maps.
Strigvir, you can increase your digitalis brush area by pressing "R" while in digitalis painting mode. The maximum brush size isn't too bad, though I sometimes wish I could make it even larger.
I really liked the first maps. but this one seem to require frame-by-frame buildup to cover enough of the map to be able to do anything once the creeper freezes.
After two hours I manage to take down one more cannon, and after that everything is covered by superbeams so i can't even get near another power unit.
Sorry, it started good but this one is just not fun for me.
I can't seem to figure out how to get rid of the building that slows you down. I have destroyed the first Command node and had digitalis underneath the building mostly but it would go away. the mortar spam dis allows me to place it under the entire structure. Any hints would be appreciated, cool map but irritating