This topic is for discussion of map #1349: teks032 stew-niverse 01
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1349)
Author: teknotiss
Size: 128x128
Desc:
the first of my stew-niverse maps, play as creeper for some! get in there and kill all the human units. thanks to stdout for playtest and error finding! #PAC #teks
Any way to get rid of the eternal stream of destroyed-item messages?
Go to Menu/Misc and check "Do not show game event notification tags"
Sweet new PAC map! I struggled at first trying to figure out how to save the emitters in the middle and still progress. Then each corner took a fair amount of attack power to move forward. Even with that, it never felt like I was slogging. Great work!
Quote from: mzimmer74 on November 13, 2014, 08:30:06 AM
Sweet new PAC map! I struggled at first trying to figure out how to save the emitters in the middle and still progress. Then each corner took a fair amount of attack power to move forward. Even with that, it never felt like I was slogging. Great work!
cool cheers dude, i was hoping it would be a nice challenge throughout.
It's about time we had another PAC map. Cheers teknotiss. And it was a good play. I've played it through four or five times already and am looking forward to another play. The brute force needed to break through the corners makes for some pretty dramatic gameplay.
I hate to admit it, but I'm stumped.
Here's where I am:
Spoiler
- The most vulnerable part of the enemy's starting position is that all their central units are supported by four relays on PZ's.
- The most vulnerable part of your starting position is that there are nullifiers on 4/5 of your emitters.
- It is possible to just barely hold off one nullifier for a little while by supporting its emitter with all the others and using the creeper field; if you do this, you will lose the other three outlying emitters and this will decrease your output enough to lose the fourth emitter as well.
- It is rarely possible to kill one relay by focusing fire on it, which also stops supply for that nullifier. Was able to get this to happen about one restart out of 20. If you do, you will lose 3 emitters to nullification, and the fourth will die too, as two emitters can't hold the ground you just took.
- The outer four emitters generate 10 creeper (and gain 10 output from each support). The center one is 20/20, so you can double your creeper output by supporting the center instead of an outlier- but even with the center supported by every other emitter and the creeper field, you can't reach any enemy unit with creeper. If you try to use Digitalis, all four of your outliers are dead before you reach an enemy unit, and the center is getting pounded by Berthas, which is a bit of a joke as there is no creeper for them to shoot at due to the emitter being buried in guns and mortars to start with.
- It seems like it might be possible to corrupt a totem in order to get your field to be strong enough to kill a relay, but the maximum expanse of digitalis is just short of the totems every time.
- Conserving creeper by not building ANY digitalis doesn't help- it doesn't get the creeper closer to the target, it just gives the guns/mortars/berthas more creeper to shoot. They're not overworked to start with.
- Maximizing digitalis doesn't help either- you will never have enough creeper to turn it blue anyway, and it can't reach as far as the totems, let alone the relays.
I know I must be missing something- it doesn't seem possible to get started on this one.
Never mind, figured it out! :)
I am completely stumped. I read the spoilers and that's the same thing I was seeing, but I just can't put my finger on where
I'm going wrong. Help would be appreciated!
Awesome map tek :)
Quote from: Dhale0919 on November 14, 2014, 01:10:35 PM
I am completely stumped. I read the spoilers and that's the same thing I was seeing, but I just can't put my finger on where
I'm going wrong. Help would be appreciated!
There are two things to continually do in the beginning of this map.
1. Keep all the original emitters alive
2. Increase your digitalis.
The first is tough, but it's what makes the 2nd possible.
Here's what I did to get through the fairly tough beginning:
Spoiler
You really need to destroy the nullifiers before they are built and begin to charge. Hotkeys are going to be your friend on this.
What I continually do is repeat the following steps:
1. Select the middle emitter and hit "T" to have full support. I then hit "1" to select digitalis (make sure it's on the largest possible size by hitting "R" multiple times) and make as much digitalis as I can from that emitter.
2. Go to each of the surrounding 4 emitters (I usually go clockwise) and for each one select it, hit "T", wait until the nullifier is destroyed, hit "1" and make digitalis, and then go to the next in line.
By doing this you will slowly build up your digitalis in the central area while keeping all of the emitters alive. You will slowly take out the enemies in the center and get the PZs to build up extra emitters and a spore tower or two. Once you have the center, it's just a matter of working your way out.
Hope that helps a bit.
Quote from: mzimmer74 on November 14, 2014, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: Dhale0919 on November 14, 2014, 01:10:35 PM
I am completely stumped. I read the spoilers and that's the same thing I was seeing, but I just can't put my finger on where
I'm going wrong. Help would be appreciated!
There are two things to continually do in the beginning of this map.
1. Keep all the original emitters alive
2. Increase your digitalis.
The first is tough, but it's what makes the 2nd possible.
Here's what I did to get through the fairly tough beginning:
Spoiler
You really need to destroy the nullifiers before they are built and begin to charge. Hotkeys are going to be your friend on this.
What I continually do is repeat the following steps:
1. Select the middle emitter and hit "T" to have full support. I then hit "1" to select digitalis (make sure it's on the largest possible size by hitting "R" multiple times) and make as much digitalis as I can from that emitter.
2. Go to each of the surrounding 4 emitters (I usually go clockwise) and for each one select it, hit "T", wait until the nullifier is destroyed, hit "1" and make digitalis, and then go to the next in line.
By doing this you will slowly build up your digitalis in the central area while keeping all of the emitters alive. You will slowly take out the enemies in the center and get the PZs to build up extra emitters and a spore tower or two. Once you have the center, it's just a matter of working your way out.
Hope that helps a bit.
Also pause a lot ::)
Speef's stuck-ness, with comments on how I got around them, for Dhale's benefit.
Spoiler
- The most vulnerable part of the enemy's starting position is that all their central units are supported by four relays on PZ's.
- The most vulnerable part of your starting position is that there are nullifiers on 4/5 of your emitters.
Yep, spot on both counts..
- It is possible to just barely hold off one nullifier for a little while by supporting its emitter with all the others and using the creeper field; if you do this, you will lose the other three outlying emitters and this will decrease your output enough to lose the fourth emitter as well.
- It is rarely possible to kill one relay by focusing fire on it, which also stops supply for that nullifier. Was able to get this to happen about one restart out of 20. If you do, you will lose 3 emitters to nullification, and the fourth will die too, as two emitters can't hold the ground you just took.
Sort of. If you carefully select which of your four emitters is the T-target, and time it correctly to get creeper to touch the nullifiers *right* before they're done building, they'll explode and have to re-build. I was able to save 3/5 of the emitters this way. You also need to know when to use "pulse mode" vs "constant mode" for the emitters. Constant mode will get you that instant push you need to pop a nullifier, but pulse mode will let you expand digitalis much more efficiently.
- The outer four emitters generate 10 creeper (and gain 10 output from each support). The center one is 20/20, so you can double your creeper output by supporting the center instead of an outlier- but even with the center supported by every other emitter and the creeper field, you can't reach any enemy unit with creeper. If you try to use Digitalis, all four of your outliers are dead before you reach an enemy unit, and the center is getting pounded by Berthas, which is a bit of a joke as there is no creeper for them to shoot at due to the emitter being buried in guns and mortars to start with.
This is right. Supporting the center isn't a good idea until you've secured at least two of those PZs.
- It seems like it might be possible to corrupt a totem in order to get your field to be strong enough to kill a relay, but the maximum expanse of digitalis is just short of the totems every time.
It's too hard to get to a totem first. You've got to rely on the weak-as-hell Field until you can drop some digitalis where the nullifiers spawn.
- Conserving creeper by not building ANY digitalis doesn't help- it doesn't get the creeper closer to the target, it just gives the guns/mortars/berthas more creeper to shoot. They're not overworked to start with.
- Maximizing digitalis doesn't help either- you will never have enough creeper to turn it blue anyway, and it can't reach as far as the totems, let alone the relays.
Conservative digitalis, 3x3, worked best for me. 5x5 was wasting the creeper, 1x1 was too easy for cannons to disconnect.
TLDR:
Spoiler
Move around which emitter is getting support to prevent nullifiers from building completely. Prioritize laying digitalis over where the nullifiers spawn. Switch between pulse/constant as necessary.
Endgame:
Spoiler
Use spores to figure out which targets aren't protected by beams. There are some. Isolate the four corners from each other. Take advantage of the fact that one base is producing Ore, and a different base is using AC for its defense.
Stave and mzimmer74, that's essentially it, and it is possible to save all 5.
Speef, was that how you did it?
Dhale, follow Stave and/or mzimmer74's tactics and you should get it done. good luck dude 8)
also i tend to pause and hold "n" to frame advance and insta-pause for the first part of tricky maps, and i think i made this just tricky enough at the start, as it lets you cut out wasted 30ths of seconds, which can be the difference between getting that Digi down and not.
Quote from: teknotiss on November 14, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
Speef, was that how you did it?
It's actually not, but I may play again and try that.
What cracked the code for me was the idea that I could be in range of a lot less damage by only having creeper in half of the center.
Spoiler
I was able to divide and conquer- 2 emitters support one and 1 emitter supports a second one- with the supported emitters both being on the the bottom (or top), and using the field on the emitter that got 2 supports. This kept all the guns/mortars on the bottom half of the middle too busy to keep up, and in "store and release" mode is enough to kill the nullifiers on both emitters.
On my first playthrough, I was able to charge up top after that without losing an emitter. I am not sure how I managed that, because on subsequent replays I keep losing the top 2 emitters, but this is not a problem for this strategy; after you kill the bottom nest, you have 4 invulnerable emitters down bottom even if the top 2 are dead, and this allows you to take the center pretty easily.
After I took the center, the rest was very easy. If you get stuck on a hard spot, try building a couple staggered-timing spore towers to keep a strategic relay down.
Here it is in pictures (super ultra spoiler!):
0:00 -> One top emitter supports one bottom emitter. Center and the other top emitter both support the other bottom emitter. The emitter with 2 supports gets the field pointing at the bottom relay.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/0-00.jpg)
0:19 -> Bottom relay is dead. Bottom left can't go into support mode or it'll get nullified. Leave everything alone and build digitalis to the bottom PZ so you can put an emitter there.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/0-19.jpg)
1:04 -> You own the bottom of the map. All emitters support the center. Use the field to kill either the left or right relay and build an emitter on its PZ.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/1-04.jpg)
1:42 -> You've built an emitter on one middle nest's PZ. Support center and use the field to kill the other middle nest.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/1-42.jpg)
2:08 -> The bottom 2/3 is yours. All support center and drive due north.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/2-08.jpg)
2:12 -> Game over; this map is yours.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/2-12.jpg)
Quote from: speef on November 15, 2014, 12:09:57 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on November 14, 2014, 06:13:34 PM
Speef, was that how you did it?
It's actually not, but I may play again and try that.
What cracked the code for me was the idea that I could be in range of a lot less damage by only having creeper in half of the center.
Spoiler
I was able to divide and conquer- 2 emitters support one and 1 emitter supports a second one- with the supported emitters both being on the the bottom (or top), and using the field on the emitter that got 2 supports. This kept all the guns/mortars on the bottom half of the middle too busy to keep up, and in "store and release" mode is enough to kill the nullifiers on both emitters.
On my first playthrough, I was able to charge up top after that without losing an emitter. I am not sure how I managed that, because on subsequent replays I keep losing the top 2 emitters, but this is not a problem for this strategy; after you kill the bottom nest, you have 4 invulnerable emitters down bottom even if the top 2 are dead, and this allows you to take the center pretty easily.
After I took the center, the rest was very easy. If you get stuck on a hard spot, try building a couple staggered-timing spore towers to keep a strategic relay down.
Here it is in pictures (super ultra spoiler!):
0:00 -> One top emitter supports one bottom emitter. Center and the other top emitter both support the other bottom emitter. The emitter with 2 supports gets the field pointing at the bottom relay.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/0-00.jpg)
0:19 -> Bottom relay is dead. Bottom left can't go into support mode or it'll get nullified. Leave everything alone and build digitalis to the bottom PZ so you can put an emitter there.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/0-19.jpg)
1:04 -> You own the bottom of the map. All emitters support the center. Use the field to kill either the left or right relay and build an emitter on its PZ.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/1-04.jpg)
1:42 -> You've built an emitter on one middle nest's PZ. Support center and use the field to kill the other middle nest.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/1-42.jpg)
2:08 -> The bottom 2/3 is yours. All support center and drive due north.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/2-08.jpg)
2:12 -> Game over; this map is yours.
(http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/eqspeef/2-12.jpg)
or just put all of the emitters on burst. gg no re humans
How do you find it fun to have to keep pausing and hotkeying everything?
That makes no sense to me and this is another of those ridiculous maps that are not fun in any way?
-Tek's maps I usually rate between 7-10 this is not worth a rating as it is unplayable for me, I am not that mindless that starting at the top pressing "t" then "1" then "R" then "p" then "esc" then starting all over again for mins or what ever it takes to get started. Is the point to let us know what a hamster feels as it runs on the wheel to nowhere? that is what this map and most of these creeper maps feel like, There was that was playable and very enjoyable. sadly this is not it....
Quote from: chwooly on November 18, 2014, 08:02:43 AM
How do you find it fun to have to keep pausing and hotkeying everything?
That makes no sense to me and this is another of those ridiculous maps that are not fun in any way?
-Tek's maps I usually rate between 7-10 this is not worth a rating as it is unplayable for me, I am not that mindless that starting at the top pressing "t" then "1" then "R" then "p" then "esc" then starting all over again for mins or what ever it takes to get started. Is the point to let us know what a hamster feels as it runs on the wheel to nowhere? that is what this map and most of these creeper maps feel like, There was that was playable and very enjoyable. sadly this is not it....
So, basically what you are saying is that you do not like PACmaps or how they are played? Also: "fun" is very, very subjective ::)
When you say you are "not that mindless", you do realize you're saying that people who do this ARE mindless, right?
P.S.: not constructive ;D
Quote from: chwooly on November 18, 2014, 08:02:43 AM
How do you find it fun to have to keep pausing and hotkeying everything?
That makes no sense to me and this is another of those ridiculous maps that are not fun in any way?
-Tek's maps I usually rate between 7-10 this is not worth a rating as it is unplayable for me, I am not that mindless that starting at the top pressing "t" then "1" then "R" then "p" then "esc" then starting all over again for mins or what ever it takes to get started. Is the point to let us know what a hamster feels as it runs on the wheel to nowhere? that is what this map and most of these creeper maps feel like, There was that was playable and very enjoyable. sadly this is not it....
Huh? I didn't find myself having to continually pause other than at the very start.
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on November 18, 2014, 05:35:57 PM
Huh? I didn't find myself having to continually pause other than at the very start.
True that, also I replaced those 10-emitters with 20-emitters as soon as possible :D, and maps where you have to pause to see whats truly going on are usually the harder maps, on easy ones (read: no direct threat to your base) you can just drone on instead, which isn't much fun IMHO :)
Quote from: iwishforpie2 on November 16, 2014, 04:19:56 PM
or just put all of the emitters on burst. gg no re humans
I just tried it, and that works fine too.
I did HOW many restarts??
Hooboy. :)
Seems to be a shortage of PAC maps/CPRL... Why is this so?
Quote from: iwishforpie2 on November 19, 2014, 05:52:36 PM
Seems to be a shortage of PAC maps/CPRL... Why is this so?
from my point of view it's because making them balanced is really rather tricky.
i have another 4 under construction (i switch between them to avoid burnout), and it's hard making it challenging at the start, middle and end.
this one i consider an easy PAC map, the others will hopefully provide more of a challenge in the later stages of the maps.
Thanks for a fun map, teknotiss! It's great to see another #playascreeper map creator! :)
Quote from: Linden on November 19, 2014, 08:50:57 PM
Thanks for a fun map, teknotiss! It's great to see another #playascreeper map creator! :)
and thanks for the thanks! it's nice to be appreciated! 8)
I don't post very often, but I am so glad you are back making some more maps Teknotiss! I find all of your maps very enjoyable and I actually get excited when I see a new one. Thank you very much, your work is much appreciated and I am thrilled to see what else you have in store for us!
Quote from: alfanugan on November 21, 2014, 10:50:11 PM
I don't post very often, but I am so glad you are back making some more maps Teknotiss! I find all of your maps very enjoyable and I actually get excited when I see a new one. Thank you very much, your work is much appreciated and I am thrilled to see what else you have in store for us!
cheers dude 8) i'll try and be a bit more productive, i have been a bit busy lately but i should have a little more time for a few weeks
I just registered just so I could post in this forum about this Map - Mate, I have to say this has been a brilliant map to play and by far the most enjoyable map I have ever played in Creeper World. I really appreciate the effort you have put in to make it and I think your strategic thinking is brilliant and the map balance is perfect - Thanks again :)
Quote from: Xeos on December 13, 2014, 07:48:42 AM
I just registered just so I could post in this forum about this Map - Mate, I have to say this has been a brilliant map to play and by far the most enjoyable map I have ever played in Creeper World. I really appreciate the effort you have put in to make it and I think your strategic thinking is brilliant and the map balance is perfect - Thanks again :)
cheers dude, appreciated! :) it was a fun one to make, and fairly easy to map out, but balancing was a bit tricky.
hopefully we'll soon have a ready to go template and you and others can get in on the PAC mapping much more easily! 8)
Finally gotten around to finishing this map. The start was tough but once I took the center, it was smooth sailing. We absolutely LOVE PAC maps. Please, guys, feed our addiction! ;D
Quote from: thumbmaster on December 13, 2014, 04:44:29 PM
Finally gotten around to finishing this map. The start was tough but once I took the center, it was smooth sailing. We absolutely LOVE PAC maps. Please, guys, feed our addiction! ;D
cheers dude and cheers little dude! glad you liked it! 8)
speaking for myself, i'm sort of waiting for Hubs to get the template up and then it'll be much easier to do.
ruining a map (well, at least having to redo some scripts/cores etc) cos you make a misstep in the finalise process is a real downer :'( sort of puts you off.
like a "sad quit" instead of a "rage quit"! ;)
I'm also waiting on Hubs' work to be finished, although I admit I'm feeling a little impatient. :) I might make a map soon to satisfy the urges I'm feeling.
Quote from: stdout on December 13, 2014, 06:29:52 PM
I'm also waiting on Hubs' work to be finished, although I admit I'm feeling a little impatient. :) I might make a map soon to satisfy the urges I'm feeling.
I'm almost done! I promise! I got really busy with work and family but I should have it this weekend.
Quote from: Hubs on December 13, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
I'm almost done! I promise! I got really busy with work and family but I should have it this weekend.
Channeling all our positive energy packs to you (is there a guppy landing pad near you?). 8)