This topic is for discussion of map #1211: The Mallard System
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1211)
Author: stdout
Size: 250x250
Desc:
A battle rages in the Mallard System, which lies at the center of the Marsh Galaxy. Ever since the creeper reawakened with a new mysterious intelligence, skirmishes like this are happening all across the universe. The humans are struggling, but their efforts won't be enough. Take the controls and assist the creeper in taking this system. Have no mercy against the humans. #PlayAsCreeper Thank you to my beta testers Grayzzur, Linden, Lost in Nowhere, DestinyAtlantis, and teknotiss.
Great map^^
Spoiler
I really liked the fact that a few well aimed spores can solve most of the difficulties with the PZ berthas
How does one play this map? I cannot place any of the items, neither node, spores or digitalis. And it make no difference where I put the field thing. How do you place anything?
Quote from: lynge on October 03, 2014, 11:53:23 AM
How does one play this map? I cannot place any of the items, neither node, spores or digitalis. And it make no difference where I put the field thing. How do you place anything?
Have you played any of the other #PlayAsCreeper maps? If not, you might want to start with 1099 "System Take Back". Read the dialog text and use the help feature to learn the units. This one is a bit of a rougher start if you're not already familiar with the play style. You can put "#PlayAsCreeper" in the Text box and Apply Filters to filter the list of maps to stdout's PAC series.
Tanks. Tried again and still no luck, but this time I spotted the "archived transmissions" button. With the transmissions it was easy enough to get started, but they did not pop up any of the times I started the map so I was a bit lost. Thanks for the tip with the tag, I will try that.
The first time I played stewbasic's PlayAsCreeper map, I couldn't figure it out and quit. Some time later I tried again and managed to make my first emitter on the nearby power zone. It was a magical experience, giving life to a new emitter. When I built my first spore tower, aimed, and launched a spore, I was exhilarated. When that spore slammed into its target and spilled creeper all over the landscape, I was hooked for life. ;D
Quote from: stdout on October 03, 2014, 12:59:38 PM
first emitter on the nearby power zone. It was a magical experience, giving life to a new emitter. When I built my first spore tower, aimed, and launched a spore, I was exhilarated. When that spore slammed into its target and spilled creeper all over the landscape, I was hooked for life. ;D
Muha, poetic. I like.
This was a fantastic map. Balance and strategy wise. :o
Tough. I only found one emitter I could save but that was enough. Getting spores through Thor defenses takes a *LOT* of spores!
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on October 03, 2014, 08:27:30 PM
Tough. I only found one emitter I could save but that was enough. Getting spores through Thor defenses takes a *LOT* of spores!
It takes considerably less if you can cut it off from a command node before it's built. :)
Okay stdout, you win! Officially my favorite mapmaker due to consistency in both fun and challenge level! Just imagine a 512x512 PlayAsCreeper level...too bad my computer can't!
I too have a high fps drop (about 1:2+ or so (in-game seconds to real-world seconds)), also at a point in the game, i had to pause the game to be able to give my units commands (i couldn't sellect them/tell them what to do/target while playing).
Other than that, another awesome map :D
Thanks cecel123, I appreciate the kind words.
DestinyAtlantis, I know what you mean. My computer struggled a bit with this one, too. I wanted to make a huge PAC map and I did but my next one will be significantly smaller. I'm thinking a nanomap like J is doing would be fun for PAC.
12:47 to beat this map? Seriously?
I think this map is sweet, I still want runners!! :) But being able to select all the spore towers at once would be a nice feature.
Quote from: Lioncourt on October 05, 2014, 10:42:08 AM
I think this map is sweet, I still want runners!! :) But being able to select all the spore towers at once would be a nice feature.
There were runners in one of the beta versions. One spawned from a spore tower with each spore release. The runners were completely useless. A couple of times in the end game they stunned a reactor, otherwise they just couldn't get close to anything. In this game, if a structure is close to live creeper it is probably doomed anyway.
Perhaps in a different game where it is possible to get creeper near to structures, but difficult to overwhelm them, perhaps because of a height difference, runners might be useful.
AETs, on the other hand, would have been very useful at the start of this map.
I had a lot of trouble with the upper 2 islands with PZ cannons and no air-towers (probably because i didn't try hard enough with spores), so after i cleared up everything but the bottom right island, i put everything to support that "doomed" emitter (i even removed digi, so that creeper can spread into the void, and used fields and what not to get a foothold, and finally managed to take out 1 of the islands, the other was easy. So runners there would have been a big help.
What are AETs?
Quote from: DestinyAtlantis on October 05, 2014, 11:45:51 AM
I had a lot of trouble with the upper 2 islands with PZ cannons and no air-towers (probably because i didn't try hard enough with spores), so after i cleared up everything but the bottom right island, i put everything to support that "doomed" emitter (i even removed digi, so that creeper can spread into the void, and used fields and what not to get a foothold, and finally managed to take out 1 of the islands, the other was easy. So runners there would have been a big help.
The big bottom island doesn't have beams going far enough east. Once you capture the easternmost PZs you can fire spores from there down to the east edge of the big island--there are no defenses of any kind until most of the island has been wiped out.
Quote from: stdout on October 05, 2014, 01:02:40 PM
What are AETs?
perhaps they mean AEZ's? ???
dunno otherwise! ::)
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on October 05, 2014, 01:06:31 PM
The big bottom island doesn't have beams going far enough east. Once you capture the easternmost PZs you can fire spores from there down to the east edge of the big island--there are no defenses of any kind until most of the island has been wiped out.
I did see that, and beat the map, i just had trouble with the 2 islands at the top-left
Quote from: stdout on October 05, 2014, 01:02:40 PM
What are AETs?
Air Exclusion Towers. Seems like they might be overpowered in the early game for this type of playstyle, if you can cut off the strafers and bombers from your key areas, unless there was some mechanic to control how big an area they project to balance them. It might also mess with whatever logic you're using on the strafers and bombers if their target area is blocked, would they have an alternate to try?
Ok, I know what you're talking about. Yes, AETs would have been a nice addition to this map in some key places. If I had added them, the ships simply wouldn't have been able to fire their weapons inside the zone. And I think it's a simple matter to change the size of the field they project. I'll keep this in mind for the future.
Nice map(s).
Some suggestions:
Somehow limit the max display size of emitters, it would be nice to see the area around heavily supported emitters.
Spores in the void behave strange, its hard to make paths because they don't really like to connect (but i guess thats a limitation of the engine)
Quote from: Quurks on October 06, 2014, 07:23:51 AM
Nice map(s).
Some suggestions:
Somehow limit the max display size of emitters, it would be nice to see the area around heavily supported emitters.
Spores in the void behave strange, its hard to make paths because they don't really like to connect (but i guess thats a limitation of the engine)
Agreed on the max emitter size. They can get really large and make it hard to see what's under them. (A workaround is to limit how many emitters you have and go spore heavy -- try it!)
The strangeness of creeper in the void has to do with active digitalis. If digitalis in the area is all dead/gray, you probably won't notice anything and can make your paths. If you drop a spore near active digitalis, as soon the creeper touches it, it gets sucked into the active digitalis area and doesn't leave you enough to make more digitalis. The behavior of creeper on active digitalis is a built-in game mechanic, and can't really be modified by custom crpl code. I find it helps to land several spores near active digitalis and be constantly painting digitalis with a large brush as they land and it spreads out, and I can usually get a decent connection. Alternately, try to get your paths painted out before the active grows into that area.
Somewhere in the code is a place where it increases the scale or size of the custom emitter as the support levels increase. Surely this can be capped somehow and I'll look into that for future maps.
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on October 05, 2014, 01:06:31 PMThe big bottom island doesn't have beams going far enough east. Once you capture the easternmost PZs you can fire spores from there down to the east edge of the big island--there are no defenses of any kind until most of the island has been wiped out.
The gaps in these defenses was intentional, to give the player another option of a backdoor attack.
i absolutely love this series ;D i had to try a few times to get started of right. i could only save one starting emitter. but it was a nice fight. i had to keep reminding myself that creeper is patient.
Really enjoyable map. I loved the brutal start.
I can't seem to get a decent breakout from the "brutal start". Having played probably close to a thousand maps between CW1, 2 and 3 this is one of those maps where people seem to equate painstaking, long starts with fun. It just doesn't work for me. Thanks for the map, but having 4 super berthas raining down shells on the starting area the entire time is more frustrating than fun.
Spoiler
depending on which starting position you chose, it is relatively easy to send most of the pz berthas a spore before they have chance to build. If you don't manage to destroy them before they are built, then yes it is super brutal.
Throughout the early game, spores for spreading digitalis over the void are very useful. Wide digitalis connections are more difficult to cut.
Spoiler
RrR is right. If all the PZ Berthas activate, you can consider the game "lost" and you should restart. As he said, make sure to kill most of them during construction.
Quote from: johntuck on October 16, 2014, 02:56:14 AM
I can't seem to get a decent breakout from the "brutal start". Having played probably close to a thousand maps between CW1, 2 and 3 this is one of those maps where people seem to equate painstaking, long starts with fun. It just doesn't work for me. Thanks for the map, but having 4 super berthas raining down shells on the starting area the entire time is more frustrating than fun.
hey dude
you do have time to drop spores onto the right hand side PZ berthas, i went for mostly spore towers until i got a foothold on the northeast and southeast islands, and only had 6 emitters or so at the end of the game. i think i'd killed them in the first five or so mins. if you're really quick you can get that one on the middle island, but you'll need eight or so spore towers to break through the two beams
if you ask I'll replay and take some screenshots so you can see my approach, it's not a bad method ;)
later dude 8)
The game is "lost"???
I do agree that the non-stop firing of triple-shots is a pain, but it's not lost.
I forgot about them, but i still managed to beat the map. The only problem was that it was a pain to get the digitalis to spread (alive), but one strategy for letting digi grow (when it can) is to distract the berthas, since they are normal auto-fire ones and not crpl-made, so land a few spore here and there, set digi growth, then distract with an emitter and eventually you will be able to beat it.
Ofcourse once i took out the 2 super berthas, it was a whole lot easier.
Yeah that's why I put "lost" in quotes. :P
I love these maps!
Is there any way to "reset" all spores or emitters after using one of the "assign all" hotkeys? I sometimes find that I want a quick targeted assault somewhere, so use the "T" button to target everything to one spot. Once I've done that, though, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to reset them all back to doing their own thing without visiting them one by one and cycling their mode.
Looking at the code, it seems that "T" is the only command that affects multiple units. Sorry to have to give that answer. Maybe in a future map I'll see about making other mass actions, which I agree would be quite helpful.
Quote from: Lioncourt on October 05, 2014, 10:42:08 AM
I think this map is sweet, I still want runners!! :) But being able to select all the spore towers at once would be a nice feature.
If you have like 5 spore towers, just select one, but instead of clicking to target something, press "T", all spores go to that spot :D
Quote from: Mexxor on October 29, 2014, 03:16:13 PM
Quote from: Lioncourt on October 05, 2014, 10:42:08 AM
I think this map is sweet, I still want runners!! :) But being able to select all the spore towers at once would be a nice feature.
If you have like 5 spore towers, just select one, but instead of clicking to target something, press "T", all spores go to that spot :D
I don't think that is what he meant.
As you said T makes all the spore towers target that point, but you can't sellect them all and switch them to auto-aim, you have to manually click each and every one and press E or R to switch their mods.
You have do destroy some of the PZ berthas before they complete building - just send them a spore. Once they are finished, it is very difficult to win.
Quote from: DestinyAtlantis on October 29, 2014, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: Mexxor on October 29, 2014, 03:16:13 PM
Quote from: Lioncourt on October 05, 2014, 10:42:08 AM
I think this map is sweet, I still want runners!! :) But being able to select all the spore towers at once would be a nice feature.
If you have like 5 spore towers, just select one, but instead of clicking to target something, press "T", all spores go to that spot :D
I don't think that is what he meant.
As you said T makes all the spore towers target that point, but you can't sellect them all and switch them to auto-aim, you have to manually click each and every one and press E or R to switch their mods.
I wasn't aware of the T. Sounds helpful.
Quote from: johntuck on October 16, 2014, 02:56:14 AM
I can't seem to get a decent breakout from the "brutal start". Having played probably close to a thousand maps between CW1, 2 and 3 this is one of those maps where people seem to equate painstaking, long starts with fun. It just doesn't work for me. Thanks for the map, but having 4 super berthas raining down shells on the starting area the entire time is more frustrating than fun.
I have to agree - I have a powerful computer and a decent graphics card its lagging like crazy. It is painful to play and the ultra slow progress is more frustrating than enjoyable - I respect the work you have done on this as I love these maps, but like Johntuck above, its doesn't work for me either and I have aborted the map. This is a tad sadomasochistic for me :)
This map is definitely the slowest of all my maps. It's gigantic and there's a lot of work that the game has to do to make it playable. Hubs recently did a lot of work rewriting some of this code base for PAC maps and so expect future PAC games will play much faster.
Ok that's great to know thanks - Well as I have completed all the other maps, it was only this one left and I couldn't let it beat me - I got into the worse position by not taking out all the cannons in a timely fashion ( Please bear in mind I am playing this while doing work on my other screen which often takes priority) so, instead of restarting, I wondered if it was possible to get out of this brutal situation and I finally did it ( 5 Hours 45 mins it took ) Ok the time is awful but a lot of the time the map was idling and I wasn't watching, but being honest it still probably took 4 hours of gameplay to beat it from the position I was in. But, nevertheless, I did so I am happy now and awaiting the next epic installment whatever that is :) Great work and much appreciated. Thanks again.
Thanks for the help, I will retry attempting to use phantoms (cw2 term) to attack the powerzone berthas, but I worry about some beams killing my phantoms on their path to such locations.
I finally completed the map:
Walkthrough:
Spoiler
Start by saving 2 emitters in the lower area.
Then the digitalis expands to let you have some power zones.
Build spore towers there.
Look at some powerzone berthas that have beams to the back, this allows sending spores there to kill them, they will not be rebuilt, the same with the thors.
Focus on attacking important relays with spores to cut off some things.
I cut off the anticreeper and 2 normal berthas which are only supplyed by guppies on the bottom.
I surrounded and disconnected the middle CN
The locations where the powerzone berthas are were good to connect the digitalis so that some behind their defenses attack.
With only a few spores I was able to send their CNs flying and thors destroyed before they are built. It looks like they have a high cost to build so they take a very long time, this is how it was possible to destroy the thors before they defend the creeper very well.
After the CNs and thors die, it is just a matter of destroying the remaining units on the map.
I didn't like it.
Worst offender was that it's that nasty PAC script with the oversized supported-emitter image (looks nice but it horrible to see what's happening below it) and the inability to select groups of emitters (or spore towers).
Together with the huge amount of PZs, this map became micromanagement hell for me. In the end, I simply slogged through it all, inching my way through empty space until everything was buried under creeper, wich wasn't fun either but it was successful.
Old map using the old code. PAC subsystem was improved greatly after this map was created.
Out of curiosity, is the name a reference to the NCIS character or the duck?
I don't know what NCIS is. I named the map after the duck shaped island ;)
Naval Criminal Investigation Service. It's an American crime show. The medical examiners last name is Mallard(Which leads to the nickname 'Duckie').
I don't want shows except for the occasional downloaded sci-fi like stargate ;D
TKB video: :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhswkf2kR30