This topic is for discussion of map #1106: RiverTakeBack
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1106)
Author: stdout
Size: 128x128
Desc:
Several weeks have passed since the creeper smothered System Gamma 91 and panic in the humans has grown into resolve. The benefit of surprise is gone, and from here out, they will not be so easily fooled. We've managed to create an emitter in the swampy bottomlands of the backwater 11th planet in the Daventry system. They have already mobilized a response. Do your best to take this world. #PlayAsCreeper
Silly Abraxis. Won't you ever learn that you can't leave an emitter that loosely guarded before nullifying it?
I can't play at the moment (Internet's out :P ), but just by looking at this map it looks a lot harder than previous play-as-creeper maps the easiest obstacle is the uphill battle. :(
Spoiler
PZ Berthas aren't even the hardest obstacle here. The biggest "advantage" the creeper has is that there's only a single relay connecting the three CNs. Capturing that PZ would make it pretty easy to starve the upper left base of energy. By my hasty estimation, it can't be making more than 4 energy/sec which will quickly dry up thanks to the sheilds; Unless you added the ability to build units where they weren't before and your AI is smart enough to build a reactor when the CN's deficit is high.
Killing that one relay isn't enough. You overlooked the guppy...
One must have patients playing the creeper :) Loved the game. I want bigger! More! :) I noticed one of the biggest pains in the arse was the sprayer on upper left, had to take out the ore mines to shut him up. :) I wasn't watching all that was going on, but I swear the game waited for me to drop the creeper pusher (lack of the term here) he would instantly drop a bertha shot there. Almost like it was waiting in orbit. Missed the strafer and bomber this time.
Another great fun one, Stdout! Thank you so much. You're right about the break point, going from a seemingly interminable start to overwhelming. Loved it! :)
Awesome, though those passive forcefields are op, 720 emitter just overrun the top-right base like it was almost nothing just from them :D (decided for the Emitter overwhelm, rather than the Spore overwhelm)
Spoiler
Taking the first 5 emitters is almost easy, then it seems like a stalemate, but the top-left base is actually energy-starving (and the guppy that is the sole reason the base is not falling very easily), though with digitalis, bit by bit you take a PZ and from then it's a cakewalk, and those extra emitters and spores are everything you need to over-run the bottom base, and then the top-right is just a...ehm...joke
Thanks you all, I'm glad everyone is having fun. I really had a lot of fun making this map. Seriously, I put about 10 hours into it and loved every minute. The PlayByCreeper scratches an itch I never knew I had.
I really like the concept of needing to be patient and starve Abraxis of resources, rather than make on a full on assault. Thus, the need to starve the left side of ore and also make them rely solely on the guppy. As for the bottom base, you can take it early:
Spoiler
Use spore towers to send spores to the unprotected bottom-left side of the bottom. There is only one beam tower protecting it so you can get past. Creeper can knock out a good 30% of their reactors. Let the guppy continue to fly which continues to drain precious resources.
I've also hit the top-right early by going around the back with spores once I conquered the left hill.
So much fun. I'm going to go play again.
If anyone has any specific requests for a future map, let me know your ideas and I'll try to accommodate you. I did the space asteroids (my favorite) and now I did the river (also my favorite!) I'm thinking of a defend the castle in reverse next.
I see a lot of players loving this game, but I can't figure out how to expand.
Is there a primer somewhere to get me started?
Thanks,
H
Helper, at the start, you time it right, use the "e" command for the emitter (holds creeper in), then press "e" again to flood it all out, with 2 layers of creeper on the ground, drip the digitalis down to spread your area, and try to head towards a totem, if you surround a totem with digi, you will then have access to the creeper pusher field(lack of proper term), and then spread and kill. :)
Cool - thanks.
I've been pounding on the E key and not getting much action.
I'll try it again your way.
Anyone else/any more tips much appreciated. I think I'm the last one on board to figure this out.
H
Helper, this one is significantly more difficult to start than my first one (map 1099), which was a walk in the park compared to this. If you haven't played that one yet, you might give it a try first and learn the techniques.
Use E to store creeper (but not too much because you're vulnerable when not releasing creeper).
Once a bit has been stored, hit E again to cause it to dump it all. If you wait til it gets filled, it'll dump automatically and start the charging process again.
Hit H to see a help screen with all your options.
Use 1 to switch to create digitalis mode and hit the letter R a few times to make the circle bigger. Click on a double-depth creeper pool to create digitalis.
Once you cover a PZ with blue digitalis, you can create another emitter or spore tower on top of the PZ by hitting 2 or 3 and then clicking on the PZ. Once you take over a totem, you can power the creeper mover with 4. (The creeper mover is a key to winning.) Click and drag and the creeper will move along the path you set. This is helpful for expanding.
(Edited for typo)
Now that I've had a chance to play it I had lots of trouble starting out. Once I got going uphill it only took about 10 in-game minutes. Trouble was getting to that point took nearly an hour! I'm not even sure how I did what I finally did, but I had a heck of a time with it.
Still an extremely fun map.
Quote from: stdout on September 05, 2014, 03:55:30 PM
Helper, this one is significantly more difficult to start than my first one (map 1099), which was a walk in the park compared to this. If you haven't played that one yet, you might give it a try first and learn the techniques.
(Edited for typo)
Shout out for stdout -
I'll go give that other one a try, then come back at it.
Thanks for the details.
H
Another really fun map. I'm really enjoying these as a bit of a change from the usual (not that the usual is bad!).
Great fun. I played it three times (once trying to do it optimally, once with only emitters, and once with two emitters and the rest spore towers). One of my favorite maps so far.
Hello,
it seems I can't get out of the initial box.
Spoiler
I place and emitter to the right, but I don't seem to be able to build digitalis onto any of the other places of power in any direction (needs L2 depth creeper).
By the time L2 creeper spreads onto the next place of power (any one of them, depending how I route the digitalis), two Berthas fire and there's the nullifier that takes out the emitter twice every Betha shot intervals.
I've been at it for hours. Trying to time it right, but I did not succeed.
Any tips?
Thanks!
It's a matter of timing, I found.
Spoiler
At first, I let the emitter do its own thing, then as soon as the first Nullifier is dead I switch to burst (select the emitter and press R), then use the Field (press 4 and drag) and eventually you'll spread enough digitalis and be safe from the nullifier.
There's very probably a better way to do it, because I'm certainly not the fastest to complete the level.
I believe:
Spoiler
It's possible to use E and build up creeper until you need it, but I dunno how to do that.
.
Oh, and it's great to spread creeper following the lines of the hills - you can spread loads that way.
really good map! a bit difficult at first, and challenging all the way through! 9/10
Quote from: Csimbi on September 06, 2014, 06:57:48 PM
Hello,
it seems I can't get out of the initial box.
Spoiler
I place and emitter to the right, but I don't seem to be able to build digitalis onto any of the other places of power in any direction (needs L2 depth creeper).
By the time L2 creeper spreads onto the next place of power (any one of them, depending how I route the digitalis), two Berthas fire and there's the nullifier that takes out the emitter twice every Betha shot intervals.
I've been at it for hours. Trying to time it right, but I did not succeed.
Thanks!
Oh sorry, I think I misunderstood! My comments were for getting started, whereas you're just past that. Oops. Well, here's another try:
Spoiler
Do you use the keyboard 1-4 or mouse click to lay a Field and spread digitalis? I have my left hand hovered over keys 1 through to 4, and change as needed. I find it's much easier to respond to required commands that way (eg if I see a teeny bit of L2 creeper to digi up, I hit 1 and left-click much faster than I could hit Pause, click the Digi icon, etc etc).
If you are using the keys and not the icons, then I don't understand. :D Sorry.
Quote from: Linden on September 07, 2014, 11:40:22 AM
Quote from: Csimbi on September 06, 2014, 06:57:48 PM
Hello,
it seems I can't get out of the initial box.
Spoiler
I place and emitter to the right, but I don't seem to be able to build digitalis onto any of the other places of power in any direction (needs L2 depth creeper).
By the time L2 creeper spreads onto the next place of power (any one of them, depending how I route the digitalis), two Berthas fire and there's the nullifier that takes out the emitter twice every Betha shot intervals.
I've been at it for hours. Trying to time it right, but I did not succeed.
Thanks!
Oh sorry, I think I misunderstood! My comments were for getting started, whereas you're just past that. Oops. Well, here's another try:
Spoiler
Do you use the keyboard 1-4 or mouse click to lay a Field and spread digitalis? I have my left hand hovered over keys 1 through to 4, and change as needed. I find it's much easier to respond to required commands that way (eg if I see a teeny bit of L2 creeper to digi up, I hit 1 and left-click much faster than I could hit Pause, click the Digi icon, etc etc).
If you are using the keys and not the icons, then I don't understand. :D Sorry.
hey man if it's the start you need help with this my effort was pretty good.
but i think you don't need tactics, just a trick.
if you put the emitter on pulse mode with "e" or "r" you can store a large amount of C in the emitter. a red bar grows showing it's capacity, it floods out when full or when you press "e" or "r" again.
this allows you to use the largest Digi brush size ("e" makes brush smaller "r" makes it larger, "t" toggles it to wipe Digi and back) by holding left click over the region and as the pulse wave of C washes past it puts down D growth areas.
also go for a totem soon, they give your field weapon the power to push when they are on D. it may push a little anyway, hard to say, but it really works when totems are attached to your D network
and emitters can be chained together to increase power, select the emitter you want to use to support and click the emitter you want to produce loads of C.
hope that helps, if not ask again and i'll do some screenies for you 8)
edited for clarity
This is the first "play-as-creeper" map I've played that had actual strategy and challenge. It was great fun. I loved the "starve one resource so you can take out the next PZ". Excellent job stdout. 10/10
For your next map -- how about the creeper has lost the ability to build spore towers, and has to claim a tech item to regain that ability?
Ok, thanks for the responses. It seems the problem was that I did not use the 'field' power correctly.
Now I can control the creeper far better and I took out the southern region first.
There seems to be a bug, see this (http://s1.postimg.org/5024r7d7z/CW3_Bug.png) screenshot.
The ammo of the three Berthas in the lower right corner keep keep recharging (and firing!) even though they are not connected.
If not a bug, the AI should not cheat so obviously.
Quote from: Csimbi on September 07, 2014, 02:52:55 PM
Ok, thanks for the responses. It seems the problem was that I did not use the 'field' power correctly.
Now I can control the creeper far better and I took out the southern region first.
There seems to be a bug, see this (http://s1.postimg.org/5024r7d7z/CW3_Bug.png) screenshot.
The ammo of the three Berthas in the lower right corner keep keep recharging (and firing!) even though they are not connected.
If not a bug, the AI should not cheat so obviously.
well it might make it too easy otherwise, but i suspect it's tied to the increasing rate of fire they have too! :)
I loved both of your maps with this theme. Thank you for them. I love alot of maps but this was new, interesting, and exciting. i loved it.
This one has me stumped.
I've got the three PZs on the valley floor no problem but I can't go beyond that.
I see the power problems with the NW base but they're not enough to let me take out the cannon to the north.
What do I do?
Loren, if you mean the one o the north on the same level, i couldn't take it either, instead, boost the emitter on the bottom left and fill the valley with digi, and use the fields to get on the higher levels, or boost a different emitter, and get a foothold on 1 level higher than you base to distract that other pz cannon, so when it runs out of ammo, you can take the PZ beam, from there it gets easier.
Notes:
1.When i boosted emitters, i only used 1 main, and 1 support, and left the other 3 to hold the front line on the bottom base.
2.Before i started going for the top-left base (even for the bottom left emitter for that matter), i took the first PZ up-hill on the bottom with fields and digi.
BTW, don't you need only level 1+ creeper to make digi growth? Or did stdout change that???
I didn't change anything with the digi creator. It has to be double layer to create digi.
Loren, don't be afraid to use spore towers. Using them you can starve the cannon on the bottom-left of ammo and then take that PZ.
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on September 09, 2014, 10:45:09 AM
This one has me stumped.
I've got the three PZs on the valley floor no problem but I can't go beyond that.
I see the power problems with the NW base but they're not enough to let me take out the cannon to the north.
What do I do?
hey dude, I got an ok time on this so perhaps my start might get you going ;)
note: using pulse emission mode is not always good right at the start, but is basically all i use once i have two or more emitters
I killed the relay, blasters etc and saved once i had the first totem
I got the north PZ and emittered it (pushed to kill the closest two mines and spread digi, the eastern one is too hard to kill yet) then the immediately east PZ got emittered too, pushed digi to protect it from the nullifier position on the hill, then used fields to cut off the far south left PZ cannon and then pushed again to kill the other relay, then get the other totem, then the PZ!
another emitter in that PZ and support the first emitter with all others, then push for the PZ beam tower, emittered that PZ and supported with all others. then went for the 2 PZ's in the lower west spore towers and start on the nearest PZ's with the spores, then another emitter next to the CN, supported with all others and push digi under CN
All other north west hill PZ's were spore towered, and i spread digi on the hill with spores and switched to assaulting the southern hill with the emitters as I started that. All the spores were placed into the reactor farm on the west of the southern hill
hope that helps 8)
This has to be my favorite map so far. I hate to think how many I have played so far. Nice job!
Thanks pastor, I appreciate that. I enjoy your games a lot, too. They are different and challenging.
I'm working on my third #PlayAsCreeper map right now and have some real progress. This next one will be a Storm The Castle map and my main challenge is not making it too much of a slog. When you do those big castle maps, there is a lot of firepower and a lot of PZs with mortars and such-like. This means the creeper just grows and grows in response, in order to get big enough to make the assault. I played my new map this afternoon and frankly, I found myself getting bored. So once I figure out how to make it more interesting and fun without being such a slog, I'll have a new map for everyone.
Quote from: stdout on September 10, 2014, 04:14:37 AM
Thanks pastor, I appreciate that. I enjoy your games a lot, too. They are different and challenging.
I'm working on my third #PlayAsCreeper map right now and have some real progress. This next one will be a Storm The Castle map and my main challenge is not making it too much of a slog. When you do those big castle maps, there is a lot of firepower and a lot of PZs with mortars and such-like. This means the creeper just grows and grows in response, in order to get big enough to make the assault. I played my new map this afternoon and frankly, I found myself getting bored. So once I figure out how to make it more interesting and fun without being such a slog, I'll have a new map for everyone.
Let us beta-test it for you. :D *begs on bended knees!*
:)
I have posted a beta of my new map. You can download it and comment on it over here:
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=17120.0
Feedback (on the other thread, please!) will be very appreciated.
Quote from: DestinyAtlantis on September 09, 2014, 11:07:50 AM
Loren, if you mean the one o the north on the same level, i couldn't take it either, instead, boost the emitter on the bottom left and fill the valley with digi, and use the fields to get on the higher levels, or boost a different emitter, and get a foothold on 1 level higher than you base to distract that other pz cannon, so when it runs out of ammo, you can take the PZ beam, from there it gets easier.
Notes:
1.When i boosted emitters, i only used 1 main, and 1 support, and left the other 3 to hold the front line on the bottom base.
2.Before i started going for the top-left base (even for the bottom left emitter for that matter), i took the first PZ up-hill on the bottom with fields and digi.
BTW, don't you need only level 1+ creeper to make digi growth? Or did stdout change that???
Where are the PZs you are talking about? I only get three. And I find spores are shot down nearly instantly.
The forth is the bottom-left corner, that PZ cannon, that you can starve rather easily by breaking his 1 long relay connection.
And yes, they are shot very fast, i tried taking out the PZ shield with the nearest spore-tower (they barerly survive), and while it took a while to get destroyed, it didn't help at all, so i changed my assault to the top-left base, just use some fields to obliterate the PZ beam (seriously, it died in less than half a second, though i may have been at 3x speed), if you need help taking it out, distracting the PZ cannon to the left with some digi from a different side helps, from there taking out the rest of the base is easy (and since it takes FOREVER for the PZ Bertha to build, just 1/30 of a second of creeper on it, and bye, bye, future Bertha). After that you have enough PZs to make them into spore towers/support emitters (whatever you prefer), and just a few normal beams that can't possibly stop you (though there is 1 more PZ Beam to the far-right)
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on September 11, 2014, 01:46:04 PM
Quote from: DestinyAtlantis on September 09, 2014, 11:07:50 AM
Loren, if you mean the one o the north on the same level, i couldn't take it either, instead, boost the emitter on the bottom left and fill the valley with digi, and use the fields to get on the higher levels, or boost a different emitter, and get a foothold on 1 level higher than you base to distract that other pz cannon, so when it runs out of ammo, you can take the PZ beam, from there it gets easier.
Notes:
1.When i boosted emitters, i only used 1 main, and 1 support, and left the other 3 to hold the front line on the bottom base.
2.Before i started going for the top-left base (even for the bottom left emitter for that matter), i took the first PZ up-hill on the bottom with fields and digi.
BTW, don't you need only level 1+ creeper to make digi growth? Or did stdout change that???
Where are the PZs you are talking about? I only get three. And I find spores are shot down nearly instantly.
Loren
on page two of these comments (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=17087.msg122154#msg122154)
I provided a step by step approach that got me a fast time, with a screenshot. Did you try it?
if so and it didn't help, i can go back and replay and do some screenies of my method if that would be more use.
if you didn't try it, TRY IT ;) i do have a pretty good time on this map :D so i reckon it could work for you too.
Quote from: teknotiss on September 12, 2014, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: Loren Pechtel on September 11, 2014, 01:46:04 PM
Quote from: DestinyAtlantis on September 09, 2014, 11:07:50 AM
Loren, if you mean the one o the north on the same level, i couldn't take it either, instead, boost the emitter on the bottom left and fill the valley with digi, and use the fields to get on the higher levels, or boost a different emitter, and get a foothold on 1 level higher than you base to distract that other pz cannon, so when it runs out of ammo, you can take the PZ beam, from there it gets easier.
Notes:
1.When i boosted emitters, i only used 1 main, and 1 support, and left the other 3 to hold the front line on the bottom base.
2.Before i started going for the top-left base (even for the bottom left emitter for that matter), i took the first PZ up-hill on the bottom with fields and digi.
BTW, don't you need only level 1+ creeper to make digi growth? Or did stdout change that???
Where are the PZs you are talking about? I only get three. And I find spores are shot down nearly instantly.
Loren
on page two of these comments (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=17087.msg122154#msg122154)
I provided a step by step approach that got me a fast time, with a screenshot. Did you try it?
if so and it didn't help, i can go back and replay and do some screenies of my method if that would be more use.
if you didn't try it, TRY IT ;) i do have a pretty good time on this map :D so i reckon it could work for you too.
Nothing I try gets me more than the three PZs in the center. I can't cut the link to the SW cannon, I can't get the creeper up the hill to the PZ just to the south. The beam in the NW kills any spores almost the instant they launch so I can't use them to cut the link to the SW cannon.
Check this screenshot out Loren. Once you get three emitters you can chain them all to support the center one, then use the creeper mover to push creeper down to destroy that relay that is feeding energy to the blaster on the PZ. Once his ammo is exhausted, you take over his PZ.
While doing this Abraxis will periodically destroy your bottom-right emitter. Just build it again each time.
(http://i.imgur.com/glxxkJe.jpg)
Quote from: stdout on September 13, 2014, 01:43:29 PM
Check this screenshot out Loren. Once you get three emitters you can chain them all to support the center one, then use the creeper mover to push creeper down to destroy that relay that is feeding energy to the blaster on the PZ. Once his ammo is exhausted, you take over his PZ.
While doing this Abraxis will periodically destroy your bottom-right emitter. Just build it again each time.
(image clip)
Loren
stdout's image is exactly my start, except I used the field to push C onto the hill where the two relays and the nullifier are built, so i rarely had to worry about that emitter (pulse mode and the field can do it, click-hold the D zone as the emitter pulses and you can grab D zones bit by bit), i occasionally had to push C back to refresh the D while i attacked that hill.
perhaps playing paused with "n" to do frame by frame (hold it to fast forward frame by frame) will help, timing at the start is critical, i think i had all three pz's inside 3 mins (maybe 2 mins on my best time) using "n" at the start
i guess if you are really stuck i can post a map with a secure start, but you can do it dude 8)