This topic is for discussion of map #250: MirrorImage
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=250)
Author: stewbasic
Size: 182x81
Desc:
A corrupted forge will prevent you from claiming more than half of the territory on this map. Destroy creeper with care - it could jeopardize your efforts on the other side! #CRPL #Digitalis #NoSpores #NoTerps #NoGuppies #NoRelays
A corrupted forge?
Where have I seen one of those before...
Quote from: planetfall on February 23, 2014, 08:40:16 PM
A corrupted forge?
Where have I seen one of those before...
Imitation is the best form of flattery.
Great concept. I loved and hated it. Wasn't playing for time at all, so my highscore is 2 hours of realtime, because I seen no reason to pause this. Most annoying part was looking for recently lost buildings. I kept hearing "boom" and then looking for 10-20 second for place where defences are weakened.
I think you should make easier start, so more players can enjoy playing puzzle part of the map.
Right now it have rough start and I think that most players would not be able to enjoy this map, because they would not be able to start.
I'm sure I used not easy way to solve this, but here's my final final position:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/1wmMuXR.jpg)
That's a lot of shields :o. I'm glad your final position looks quite different from mine; I was worried the map would be too restrictive.
Could you show yours? In PM if you want.
Sure.
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/4nteB7s.jpg)
Well, at least my solution is more "fair" :)
Created an account here just to say: wow that was hard!
Making the start easier would improve this a lot.
Spoiler
I couldn't find a way to start on both sides, had to start on one side and then fight onto the other side.
So delaying things a bit so you could land in the corners and get started would let people get on with the puzzle solving.
My final setup attached (well, maybe, first time posting so don't know how attachments work here):
Whoa! Almost eight hours!
How long did you played in real time?
I'm guessing 4 hours or more with all the setbacks and going back to previous saves. Played most of the time at 4X dropping to 2x occasionally. Kept telling myself I wasn't going to play it any more but then kept trying a different attack.
Spoiler
If I was doing it over I would not increase my weapons range all the way, blasters with shorter range would have been much more helpful at the end when you need to balance things.
I could put up an easy version with a longer starting delay (and a higher reactor limit? Decreasing total creeper level from 0.4 to 0.3 or 0.2? What else?). I made the start tight partially because I didn't want the mine tech collected before the mirror activates, so for the easy version I might have the tech drop down afterwards.
btw question for people who finished it:
Spoiler
I had in mind that shooting the runners on the central platform on one side would deposit creeper and allow the creeper to be cleared on the other side to get the mine tech. But maybe brute force is less hassle. How did you get the tech?
In my best attempts at getting a stable starting position on both sides at the start I probably only needed a few more seconds, not sure that would be enough time to grab the tech, build mines and sprayers, and do it on both sides without getting wiped out once the mirroring starts.
And to answer your question: Brute Force from the bottom.
I'm curious to know the mappers intent in making this (these) kind(s) of maps.
This one has 142 D/L's but only two players who have posted scores.
Is there any intention of offering some hints/spoilers?
The 'easy' version now has 60 D/L's, with 0 scores.
I'm not a mapper, so can't see things from that perspective - but isn't the basic intention to provide maps/games that most people can play?
Interested in hearing from those who do the creating.
Thanks,
H
Quote from: Helper on March 17, 2014, 02:43:43 PM
I'm not a mapper, so can't see things from that perspective - but isn't the basic intention to provide maps/games that most people can play?
Interested in hearing from those who do the creating.
Thanks,
H
well i can't speak for stew, but i think i understand a possible cause
i imagine it's the puzzle part that causes this. if a mapper works too much on a linear or puzzle map it's possible to get so used (fast and good) to doing the start of your map it's easy to forget how hard you're actually making it.
then when a player isn't able to see the "trick" or so on in the first few secs it becomes V hard V fast. and players tend to drop tricky maps and move on i think
i found myself doing this on some CW2 maps but i noticed and reined them in hard, and i keep CRPL to a bare minimum to avoid overly complex starts.
personally i thought the effort worth 10, but the (re)playability was pretty low so i decline to rate this one since our rating system doesn't have a "mindbending" option ;)
Quote from: teknotiss on March 17, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
i imagine it's the puzzle part that causes this.
..."mindbending"...
Aha!
I didn't realize it was a 'puzzle', and concur entirely on the 'mindbending' part.
Thanks Tek-Man,
H
Quote from: Helper on March 17, 2014, 02:43:43 PM
Is there any intention of offering some hints/spoilers?
I'm certainly happy to give hints, but I have no way of knowing what people are getting stuck on (or even whether the people who downloaded the map tried it). The feedback I got was that the start was too tight, which is why the easy (easier?) version has double the starting delay.
Quote from: teknotiss on March 17, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
if a mapper works too much on a linear or puzzle map it's possible to get so used (fast and good) to doing the start of your map it's easy to forget how hard you're actually making it.
This is probably true - a lot of tweaking went into this map, and consequently a lot of playtesting. I tried to force myself to play less inefficiently through the start of the easy version, not sure whether that was successful.
Quote from: stewbasic on March 17, 2014, 08:15:19 PM
...but I have no way of knowing what people are getting stuck on (or even whether the people who downloaded the map tried it).
You might consider reaching out to the players.
Obviously you have put a
huge amount of thought and effort into creating this, but little/no effort in engaging the other players.
The DL/play ratio in CW3 is probably close to 1:1, so 140+ have probably tried to play the game, but gave up and moved on.
Even if you didn't want to give too much information in the game dialogue, it might be a good idea to monitor the DL/Score ratio and start asking for input/comments here in the game thread if it remains low.
This thread has 360+ "views/reads" and I would suggest that a large chunk of those were players looking for help.
I love to play a good, tough game, but often need just a little bit of help getting off to a good start.
Thanks for responding and looking forward to more from you.
H
OK, here are some hints to get started.
Spoiler
Because of the mirror effect, if you want to hold some ground on one side, there needs to be at least 0.4 (or 0.2 for easy version) creeper at the corresponding location on the other side.
Spoiler
The middle is a bad place to start, because there won't be enough creeper on the other side.
Spoiler
If you nullify the emitter(s) in the top outer corner on one side, that area will be safe because the emitter(s) on the other side will produce creeper. Same for the bottom inner corner.