This topic is for discussion of map #232: Domorthea
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=232)
Author: Clean0nion
Size: 256x256
Desc:
In the depths of the Costarella system, coasting towards an unknown desert planet, an asteroid field stands in your path: Domorthea, wrecker of spacecraft. And now it's infested with Creeper. Features a linear path of progress, successive areas of increasing difficulty, and a spore-maniacal enemy that adapts to your reactor count and releases spores once a minute. #Costarella #Void #Islands #CustomEnemy #CRPL #Spores #Digitalis #TechLimits #Hard #Puzzle #Slog
#NoEnergy
#ModifiedUnitCosts
#AnnoyingAsHell
#NoTurtling
#VeryRestrictedUnitLimit
#WhatAreCollectors?
lolz.
Quote from: burguertime on February 17, 2014, 08:49:24 AM
#NoEnergy
#ModifiedUnitCosts
#AnnoyingAsHell
#NoTurtling
#VeryRestrictedUnitLimit
#WhatAreCollectors?
lolz.
I ran out of the character limit but wanted to keep the prose.
I'm checking periodically to see if anyone's beaten it... so far, nobody!
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: burguertime on February 17, 2014, 08:49:24 AM
#NoEnergy
#ModifiedUnitCosts
#AnnoyingAsHell
#NoTurtling
#VeryRestrictedUnitLimit
#WhatAreCollectors?
lolz.
I ran out of the character limit but wanted to keep the prose.
I'm checking periodically to see if anyone's beaten it... so far, nobody!
i know you can make great maps so what just happened?
was it your intent to make a zero fun map?
cos i get the impression from your comment that you don't want people to win, or perhaps even play.
unit limits are annoying in general, so super harsh limits like these ones just take away any fun factor for me, the map design is ok, but D spread is so huge it's clearly just going to be an artificial slog. i like sloggy missions, if i get full access to at least all non titan weapons, but i dislike artificial dragging out of a map by limiting units so much, also if it took you 4+ hours i'm not inclined to give it much time ::)
looking forwards to you next one
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: burguertime on February 17, 2014, 08:49:24 AM
#NoEnergy
#ModifiedUnitCosts
#AnnoyingAsHell
#NoTurtling
#VeryRestrictedUnitLimit
#WhatAreCollectors?
lolz.
I ran out of the character limit but wanted to keep the prose.
I'm checking periodically to see if anyone's beaten it... so far, nobody!
i know you can make great maps so what just happened?
was it your intent to make a zero fun map?
cos i get the impression from your comment that you don't want people to win, or perhaps even play.
unit limits are annoying in general, so super harsh limits like these ones just take away any fun factor for me, the map design is ok, but D spread is so huge it's clearly just going to be an artificial slog. i like sloggy missions, if i get full access to at least all non titan weapons, but i dislike artificial dragging out of a map by limiting units so much, also if it took you 4+ hours i'm not inclined to give it much time ::)
looking forwards to you next one
THIS is the map that, out of all, I put the most effort into. THIS is the map that I love the most. THIS is the map that I made first, and that inspired the rest of my creations.
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMi know you can make great maps so what just happened?
This is in my opinion the greatest of my maps.
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMwas it your intent to make a zero fun map?
It was my intent to make a map that does not change difficulty based on time but rather on progress (where progress is measured by the number of reactors).
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMcos i get the impression from your comment that you don't want people to win, or perhaps even play.
The impression you should get is that no-one at the time of that comment had beat the map other than myself. Nothing else.
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMunit limits are annoying in general, so super harsh limits like these ones just take away any fun factor for me
Fair enough.
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMit's clearly just going to be an artificial slog
What does that even mean?
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMi dislike artificial dragging out of a map
Again! "artificial"?
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMif it took you 4+ hours i'm not inclined to give it much time
That's an excellent reason not to comment on it!!
I'd like to forward you to a post by Virgil that was obviously inspired by a comment I made (which I have dishonoured my making this post in the first place):
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=15512.0
And I see now that Ragi has posted a score of slightly less than half my time. So, yeah.
You had this one out before Colonial Space. I'm surprised it took this long to post it. This beast has already sucked 3 hours of my life away. What's different in this version?
Quote from: Grayzzur on February 17, 2014, 10:38:05 AM
You had this one out before Colonial Space. I'm surprised it took this long to post it. This beast has already sucked 3 hours of my life away. What's different in this version?
Nothing - it's exactly the same. I've just not a had a period of sufficient procrastination so far in order to release it.
context is missing from text i prefer speech communication, so i sometimes type as i talk, but of course there is no tone in text, my apologies, the post wasn't intended to offend, just my opinions
i also forget to put in emoticons sometimes ???
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 10:07:00 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMit's clearly just going to be an artificial slog
What does that even mean?
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMi dislike artificial dragging out of a map
Again! "artificial"?
ah clarity is key isn't it ::) "artificial slog" (dragging out time by unit limits and CRPL) as opposed to straight up "tons of creeper slog" i dislike the former and really enjoy the latter. odd i know but that's personal preference for you.
and if you took my comments badly, apologies, i guessed from the reply on the other post (that is gone now, wow dissassociative moment when i saw it didn't exist anymore :), the internet is odd) that you weren't touchy about other people opinions about your maps.
pretty sure i got that from your post, but obviously i can't check now cos it's gone :o
if this is the best map in your opinion groovy man, don't be bothered that it isn't mine.
just so you know (cos like most people i tend only to comment on maps i dislike) i think that swimming pool is my favourite of your's for fun, and the asteriod one was the best playing one for me, took a few goes to get the strategy down.
later dude 8)
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 11:29:36 AM
context is missing from text i prefer speech communication, so i sometimes type as i talk, but of course there is no tone in text, my apologies, the post wasn't intended to offend, just my opinions
i also forget to put in emoticons sometimes ???
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 10:07:00 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMit's clearly just going to be an artificial slog
What does that even mean?
Quote from: teknotiss on February 17, 2014, 09:52:13 AMi dislike artificial dragging out of a map
Again! "artificial"?
ah clarity is key isn't it ::) "artificial slog" (dragging out time by unit limits and CRPL) as opposed to straight up "tons of creeper slog" i dislike the former and really enjoy the latter. odd i know but that's personal preference for you.
and if you took my comments badly, apologies, i guessed from the reply on the other post (that is gone now, wow dissassociative moment when i saw it didn't exist anymore :), the internet is odd) that you weren't touchy about other people opinions about your maps.
pretty sure i got that from your post, but obviously i can't check now cos it's gone :o
if this is the best map in your opinion groovy man, don't be bothered that it isn't mine.
just so you know (cos like most people i tend only to comment on maps i dislike) i think that swimming pool is my favourite of your's for fun, and the asteriod one was the best playing one for me, took a few goes to get the strategy down.
later dude 8)
Time for some more clarity!
I'm sure I offended you somehow in my post - if I did, I didn't mean to! And about me not being touchy - that's correct. I'll criticise as I want, given half a chance, and I'll accept criticism of my work. That's not to say I won't argue against it!
It is a general rule on these forums that if you don't have anything to say, don't say it. I'd like to think that this rule does not apply to my own work.
Anyway - I've written this post but somehow I feel that I've not brought up the point I originally wanted to make. Oh well.
Have a nice day!
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 12:00:00 PM
I'm sure I offended you somehow in my post - if I did, I didn't mean to! And about me not being touchy - that's correct. I'll criticise as I want, given half a chance, and I'll accept criticism of my work. That's not to say I won't argue against it!
It is a general rule on these forums that if you don't have anything to say, don't say it. I'd like to think that this rule does not apply to my own work.
Anyway - I've written this post but somehow I feel that I've not brought up the point I originally wanted to make. Oh well.
Have a nice day!
:D i lol'ed, it was just the vehemence of your arguement made me think i'd touched a nerve, no worries then! 8)
Replayed this map, only because it was marked as unplayed. Had a little hope, that you made it even better.
Glad I forgot how I played it before, but it seems, that my time is slightly worse than it was (I had many episodes, where I was just waiting, and even in this map I was overbuilding much).
Great map. A little bit too big IMHO, at the end I was playing at, like, 0.3x speed due to lag. That was quiet surprising, because after destroying spore tower I had only few active units and several units, that were sending packets (Sprayers-collectors)
Yo guys, tone it down.
Don't rage over a map.
We have a saying here in Brazil, that
Quote"taste is like certain soft part of human anatomy.
When a person wants to force ones' taste upon someone else, something is VERY wrong."
I understand that Onion had tons of time tuning it so it becomes a real pain to finish the map. If that's how he rocks, rock on!
Its like bored to death (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3953) or Liberation Pinball (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=8083). that caters to some tastes, but not to the masses.
Do not give in to cognitive dissonance, just mark hidden on the map and move on. There will be tons of unfinished maps, and the tags Onion put on already marked it as a Nay to me.
OK I've repeatedly tryed this map and just can't get off the starting block. I know I need to grab the relays then work 'east' but I never manage to do that and stop the digitalis. What an I missing?
Quote from: Trantos1 on February 17, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
OK I've repeatedly tryed this map and just can't get off the starting block. I know I need to grab the relays then work 'east' but I never manage to do that and stop the digitalis. What an I missing?
Spoiler
- Place CN as close to southern tip of starting island as possible.
- Build 1 collector (in the green) to pick up the message artifact. (Read it -- important clue on map's mechanics.)
- Move the CN further south, now that the message artifact is out of the way.
- You will need all 5 collectors to reach the relay. Don't destroy the first one until necessary.
- Start building a pulse cannon. Time it so it's only building while the 30th build packet is travelling to a collector. (Activate/de-activate.) You can have 1 pulse cannon almost built by the time you get to the relay tecj -- but do not slow down the building of the collectors.
- Relays are cheap here. Use them to build back up to where you need pulse cannons (brown area, northeast corner of the island, in the digitalis -- three of them, including the one you just finished building).
- Destroy your collectors one at a time and build them up in the green area. Make sure they are spread out as far as possible, with very little overlap. Use relays to help spread them out if needed.
- Once the 5th collector is relocated to the starting green area (and you should already have 3 digitalis pulse cannons holding back the digitalis), then you can build a 4th pulse cannon and a nullifier to take out that emitter. Don't let this PC shoot constantly, conserve its ammo just to keep the creeper off the green area. You need the energy for the other cannons.
- Once that's gone, build a beam before putting a reactor in the PZ.
- Now you can stretch relays down to the AC emitter and set up some sprayers to collect AC for you, as well as get a forge and those two totems going for upgrades, and plan your assault on the second island.
TIP: Save the game anytime you're about to build additional reactors. You did read those message artifacts, right?
Quote from: Grayzzur on February 17, 2014, 11:44:10 PM
Quote from: Trantos1 on February 17, 2014, 10:53:18 PM
OK I've repeatedly tryed this map and just can't get off the starting block. I know I need to grab the relays then work 'east' but I never manage to do that and stop the digitalis. What an I missing?
Spoiler
- Place CN as close to southern tip of starting island as possible.
- Build 1 collector (in the green) to pick up the message artifact. (Read it -- important clue on map's mechanics.)
- Move the CN further south, now that the message artifact is out of the way.
- You will need all 5 collectors to reach the relay. Don't destroy the first one until necessary.
- Start building a pulse cannon. Time it so it's only building while the 30th build packet is travelling to a collector. (Activate/de-activate.) You can have 1 pulse cannon almost built by the time you get to the relay tecj -- but do not slow down the building of the collectors.
- Relays are cheap here. Use them to build back up to where you need pulse cannons (brown area, northeast corner of the island, in the digitalis -- three of them, including the one you just finished building).
- Destroy your collectors one at a time and build them up in the green area. Make sure they are spread out as far as possible, with very little overlap. Use relays to help spread them out if needed.
- Once the 5th collector is relocated to the starting green area (and you should already have 3 digitalis pulse cannons holding back the digitalis), then you can build a 4th pulse cannon and a nullifier to take out that emitter. Don't let this PC shoot constantly, conserve its ammo just to keep the creeper off the green area. You need the energy for the other cannons.
- Once that's gone, build a beam before putting a reactor in the PZ.
- Now you can stretch relays down to the AC emitter and set up some sprayers to collect AC for you, as well as get a forge and those two totems going for upgrades, and plan your assault on the second island.
TIP: Save the game anytime you're about to build additional reactors. You did read those message artifacts, right?
Alternatively...
Spoiler
Don't build a PC while the collectors are building. Well, you can if you want.
The moment that you grab the relay tech, build a line of relays down to AC island. Build a sprayer here - make sure you set it to Collect AC and Dispatch Excess.
While all that is building, move your collectors up as Grayzzur explained. Make sure to replace every other collector with a relay on the little islands.
You'll need to build four blasters to stop the digitalis - but only build two.
Once the first is done building (you might still have a collector or two still being built) build another sprayer, this time on the green island. Make sure it has access to digitalis.
Now your two blasters can handle the AC digitalis.
Build another blaster near the emitter, nullify it, build three or four beams and disperse them throughout the asteroid belt and the island. Build a reactor on the PZ.
Now connect the totems and build a forge. You only need one relay on the AC island so you may have to reposition it.
There is way better start than using collectors to get relay tech:
Spoiler
Build collector - beam - collector - beam - collector. Thus you save 20 energy (beams cost less, do not power them up yet), gain useful beams for future, have remaining collectors you can build in useful place for extra energy before getting relay, can remove beams and place relays there (and then rebuild remaining three collectors in useful place).
Quote from: Altren on February 18, 2014, 08:37:07 AM
There is way better start than using collectors to get relay tech:
Nice. Learn something new every day.
OMGlong.
I loved the way that I kept saying, "And how the hell would I do THAT????" in the course of the level. I also had the honor of being far and away the worst time on the board! =D
Keep making these!
Help! I'm totally stuck in a stalemate and can't get any farther. I need to finish this map so I can get back to my life! See screenshot below. How do I get any farther along now? I just can't figure out how to stop the flow of creeper through the wide path of digitalis in the center and therefore can't make any advances. Help!!!
Quote from: pasqualz on February 21, 2014, 03:50:45 PM
Help! I'm totally stuck in a stalemate and can't get any farther. I need to finish this map so I can get back to my life!(???) See screenshot below. How do I get any farther along now? I just can't figure out how to stop the flow of creeper through the wide path of digitalis in the center and therefore can't make any advances. Help!!!
Everyone gets stuck here.
FIRST: GET THE TECHS ON THE POWER ZONES!
Spoiler
Send a D-PC across to the nearest asteroid under the D, then wait a couple of seconds and send across another to the PZ island. THE MOMENT that one of the PCs runs out of ammo, build a relay in its place. Then just send another across onto a PZ, once you've collected the tech.
Then this:
Spoiler
Build a few D-PCs. Send them across to the asteroids. Then power one with either a PZ guppy or a relay. A guppy is best.
One you have a litlle hole in the D, send a Terp over - there's another small asteroid above the original two. Terp that to level 1 or 2, then add another couple of D-PCs.
Unfortunately your first spoiler doesn't work for me. Here's why:
Spoiler
I'm assumin that D-PC means digitalis power canon??? I set two canons to target "digitalis" and send them over a few seconds apart. The first one on the top-most asteroid, makes a small hole and so does the second one on the PZ (Power zone?) island, but as soon as I destroy the top canon and go to add a relay, the creeper floods in way to quickly and destroys the relay. I've tried sending over several carefully timed waves of digitalis and creeper targeting canons, but no matter what, the creeper just floods in way too fast. Perhaps if the canons could connect into a relay from the top island, but theyre too far away to do so. There just seems like no way to stop the flow of creeper in that digitalis path. Maybe its just me and I'm not capable of getting the timing right.
:-( Can you think of why its not working for me??? perhaps, something isnt set up correctly elsewhere on the map???
Quote from: pasqualz on February 21, 2014, 11:43:20 PM
Unfortunately your first spoiler doesn't work for me. Here's why:
Spoiler
I'm assumin that D-PC means digitalis power canon??? I set two canons to target "digitalis" and send them over a few seconds apart. The first one on the top-most asteroid, makes a small hole and so does the second one on the PZ (Power zone?) island, but as soon as I destroy the top canon and go to add a relay, the creeper floods in way to quickly and destroys the relay. I've tried sending over several carefully timed waves of digitalis and creeper targeting canons, but no matter what, the creeper just floods in way too fast. Perhaps if the canons could connect into a relay from the top island, but theyre too far away to do so. There just seems like no way to stop the flow of creeper in that digitalis path. Maybe its just me and I'm not capable of getting the timing right.
Well, as you've conquered the fourth island, you could try loading up a couple of bombers and sending them over.
And I hate to be patronising, but are you pausing?
I tried moving all 4 bombers to concentrate on the PZ asteriod and the one above it but they make no dent in the digitalis. It appears that there is all AC flowing around the digitalis, but the digitalis itself is full of creeper still. I am pausing and playing on 1x when I try the canon technique to carve out small holes in the creeper to put the relay in, but alas, the creeper flows back in way too fast. I wish I could take a short video to show you.
It seems that I'm getting a different effect in this area than you experienced. Could it be that the game's been running so long (going on 15 hours,) that the creeper has built up to an enormous amount and pressure and just can't be beaten back? I tried building about a hundred mortars and sent them all together to the last island on the bottom left in hopes that they would overwhelm the creeper there and cause a short disruption in creeper flowing through the digitalis, but a hundred mortar together didn't even put a dent in the creeper. it seems hopeless.
Spoiler
The AC helps slow down the digitalis growth, but you do need to cut it off before building. I'd use 6 digitalis pulse cannons. There are two pads, one at the 3 power zones and one a little above. Put 2 cannons on those pads to shoot at the digitalis, and have 4 in reserve just above on the island. When they run out of ammo, swap them with two of the reserves. 3 sets gives them enough time to rearm and heal before being rotated back in. Do that a few times until all the digitalis to the left is cut off and the stuff on the right is pushed back a bit. (I'd do this before taking the next island, using a sprayer in the powerzone on the island above since bombers weren't available yet.)
Then, when you're ready, when the two shooting cannons are at about half ammo, move the top one and build a relay. As soon as it's built, move the bottom one and build a relay. Then move a PC in to the power zones to keep the digitalis back permanently. With all those reactors, you'll probably want to use the other two for beams.
Try collectors in the power zones to reduce the number of reactors you need -- works best if you can terraform them a big flat area to turn green.
I really enjoyed this map. I liked how the variable spore emitter gave a soft tech limit instead of a hard limit on reactors.
My solution for the final island was
Spoiler
to make masses of mortars and shuttle them back and forth until I could finally make a beachhead for the guppies with cannons/sprayers and shields, was a very close thing even though I sent a lot. I'm curious if many people did that too or if most people figured out how to get to the spore emitter, then directly to the island
@pasqualz you might try destroying a couple reactors, I think I did all but the very last part of the map on 3, then 4 maybe 5 for the final assault. Even then that was a lot of spores. I think I'll have to try this one again from a save just to see what it looks like when you build the limit of reactors
Quote from: Godsbrother on March 22, 2014, 09:37:20 PM
I think I'll have to try this one again from a save just to see what it looks like when you build the limit of reactors
You have a maximum of 29 reactors after all extra reactors have been collected. Placing them all would result in a round of 841 spores taking just over 280 seconds to launch (because they have a 10 frame delay between each spore).
Obviously, a minute is only 60 seconds. So you would have spores firing constantly.
Placing 14 reactors would have 196 spores per round. This takes just over 65 seconds to fire - so in short, the spore difficulty caps after 14 reactors.
It would also be very noisy.
Came back for this map, got most of it except the inhibitor island.
No matter what I do, the inhibitor island is covered with creeper and can't clear enough for relay let alone a nullifier.
Singularity weapon not helps?