This topic is for discussion of map #230: Watch the World Burn
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=230)
Author: planetfall
Size: 128x96
Desc:
[PF #6] Another civilization, another weapon turned against its creators... #CRPL #CustomEnemy #NoSpores #Digitalis #Runners #PFSeries
I apologize in advance for the entirely useless beam shrine. This map is too annoyingly long for me to re-beat to remove it (and is several days late anyway.)
PFSeries - Phagocyte Fulcrum?
No, it's obviously Phosphorus Fluoride ::)
For anyone having trouble nullifying the stationary flamethrowers:
Spoiler
A PZ nullifier has a longer reach than the thrower.
Quote from: planetfall on February 16, 2014, 07:31:01 PM
No, it's obviously Phosphorus Fluoride ::)
*phosphorous trifluoride
The next closest thing I can find is francium phosphate... but that still doesn't work.
ANYWAY, excellent map.
Quote from: Flabort on February 16, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
For anyone having trouble nullifying the stationary flamethrowers:
Spoiler
A PZ nullifier has a longer reach than the thrower.
Or terraform a wall, but obviously that doesn't work for the ones on the max terrain.
Spoiler
You can also distract them by moving pulse cannons around in their range. I haven't tried this, but the tanky HP of a command node might be enough to keep one busy long enough for a nullifier to charge. But you don't even have to destroy them to win, and the two that are hardest to kill offer the least benefit from doing so.
Quote from: planetfall on February 16, 2014, 06:14:38 PM
I apologize in advance for the entirely useless beam shrine. This map is too annoyingly long for me to re-beat to remove it (and is several days late anyway.)
I did not find it annoying, but I really skipped the custom units at large. The downhill creeper stand is always a pain to defend,
Spoiler
but I terped in some walls and then a battlement for my Pulse C. (elevation 10)
If you need help posting a score for a map you find too annoying, there are people with DIFFERENT opinions on the forum to help with (wink wink).
I really liked your series, and if you want to re-do this one and need a score posted, yell me up.
Quote from: burguertime on February 17, 2014, 08:53:26 AM
If you need help posting a score for a map you find too annoying, there are people with DIFFERENT opinions on the forum to help with (wink wink).
I really liked your series, and if you want to re-do this one and need a score posted, yell me up.
Concur.
Just do a PM or hang around in Chat.
It is very common to get this kind of assist.
Yet again, another amazing map.
Interesting idea with the winning conditions. I very stupidly in my first run didn't send one of my Command Nodes back into orbit before the countdown began as I forgot it takes 30 seconds to re-deploy and so had to replay the map all over again. Derp. But I enjoyed it both times anyway so I cant complain. :)
Was going to comment on the useless Beam Shrine Tech but you already apologised about that. :P And besides that's more than forgiveable seeing how much effort you put in and how good the map was. :D
As always, looking forward to the next instalment. :)
Quote from: Jamz on February 17, 2014, 03:42:57 PM
Yet again, another amazing map.
Interesting idea with the winning conditions. I very stupidly in my first run didn't send one of my Command Nodes back into orbit before the countdown began as I forgot it takes 30 seconds to re-deploy and so had to replay the map all over again. Derp. But I enjoyed it both times anyway so I cant complain. :)
Was going to comment on the useless Beam Shrine Tech but you already apologised about that. :P And besides that's more than forgiveable seeing how much effort you put in and how good the map was. :D
As always, looking forward to the next instalment. :)
I've run out of slight variations on "thank you" and I'm starting to feel guilty because of it...
And how on earth did you get that time? :o
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
I've run out of slight variations on "thank you" and I'm starting to feel guilty because of it...
lol that's fine. Just keep making more maps. :D:D:D
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
And how on earth did you get that time? :o
Haha, well, as I mentioned, I did have to replay the map again because of that silly blunder I made on my first run and so naturally, I did things a little better and more efficiently in my second run.
Quote from: Jamz on February 17, 2014, 04:04:33 PM
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
I've run out of slight variations on "thank you" and I'm starting to feel guilty because of it...
lol that's fine. Just keep making more maps. :D:D:D
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
And how on earth did you get that time? :o
Haha, well, as I mentioned, I did have to replay the map again because of that silly blunder I made on my first run and so naturally, I did things a little better and more efficiently in my second run.
Have you seen the other scores though? Second place is 27 minutes.
What was your secret?
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Have you seen the other scores though? Second place is 27 minutes.
What was your secret?
Well it's still early days. I'm sure someone will come and beat it or at least get close to it.
I remember when I got 26 mins on Ptechnological Pterror. I thought it was going to be the best but as you can see, that's been beaten now.
Anyway, as for secret, I dont think I have any secrets but I think there were a couple things I did in this map which probably made a huge difference.
Spoiler
After deploying the CNs towards the south west-ish, I went straight for the Runner Nest and Corrupted Totem on the north-ish west side and nullified them. Then built a cannon on the PZ and a sprayer besides to prevent any creeper flanking me from the west. Doing this also meant I didn't have to contend with the digitalis or creeper that would have been on that high ground or any runners on that digitalis path since I had already secured it before any creeper had the chance to get there. In essence, I won the race to that point and by doing that, I set myself up nicely to proceed. I think that area was probably THE MOST important strategic point to secure in the entire map. From there, I was then able to proceed swiftly to take out the emitters and the corrupted totems further north and then push east towards the wormhole in the north-centre and clear that area out.
Next thing I did which again I feel significantly helped was whilst I was pushing east towards the wormhole, I set 2 berthas to be constructed on the PZs which I had secured in the north west. These proved to make a massive difference. Why? Because those runners at the very north east also had totems on them. This meant they had to be destroyed too but this would've meant that I would have to extend my network and force myself through to that corner to take them out. But instead of forcing my way there, I blasted them with the 2 well aimed triple berthas. Each triple shot was sufficient to damage them and prevent them from recovering in time until after a couple of shots from my berthas, they too were destroyed without the need for me to extend my network there. At that point, all totems were gone and so the wormhole was now ready for me to drop a CN through. So that too saved me a lot of time.
Job done. :D
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
I've run out of slight variations on "thank you" and I'm starting to feel guilty because of it...
Yay we got one mapmaker blushing!!!
Quote from: Clean0nion on February 17, 2014, 03:37:41 AM
Quote from: planetfall on February 16, 2014, 07:31:01 PM
No, it's obviously Phosphorus Fluoride ::)
*phosphorous trifluoride
The next closest thing I can find is francium phosphate... but that still doesn't work.
ANYWAY, excellent map.
I think it's liquid nitro glycerin or if that is too volatile for you try foof or that weird stuff that blew up for no reason while the scientists were setting up stuff to see what happened if you boiled it.
That's what I think but I may be wrong as I have been wrong before.
Quote from: Jamz on February 17, 2014, 05:01:42 PM
Quote from: planetfall on February 17, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Have you seen the other scores though? Second place is 27 minutes.
What was your secret?
Well it's still early days. I'm sure someone will come and beat it or at least get close to it.
I remember when I got 26 mins on Ptechnological Pterror. I thought it was going to be the best but as you can see, that's been beaten now.
Anyway, as for secret, I dont think I have any secrets but I think there were a couple things I did in this map which probably made a huge difference.
Spoiler
After deploying the CNs towards the south west-ish, I went straight for the Runner Nest and Corrupted Totem on the north-ish west side and nullified them. Then built a cannon on the PZ and a sprayer besides to prevent any creeper flanking me from the west. Doing this also meant I didn't have to contend with the digitalis or creeper that would have been on that high ground or any runners on that digitalis path since I had already secured it before any creeper had the chance to get there. In essence, I won the race to that point and by doing that, I set myself up nicely to proceed. I think that area was probably THE MOST important strategic point to secure in the entire map. From there, I was then able to proceed swiftly to take out the emitters and the corrupted totems further north and then push east towards the wormhole in the north-centre and clear that area out.
Next thing I did which again I feel significantly helped was whilst I was pushing east towards the wormhole, I set 2 berthas to be constructed on the PZs which I had secured in the north west. These proved to make a massive difference. Why? Because those runners at the very north east also had totems on them. This meant they had to be destroyed too but this would've meant that I would have to extend my network and force myself through to that corner to take them out. But instead of forcing my way there, I blasted them with the 2 well aimed triple berthas. Each triple shot was sufficient to damage them and prevent them from recovering in time until after a couple of shots from my berthas, they too were destroyed without the need for me to extend my network there. At that point, all totems were gone and so the wormhole was now ready for me to drop a CN through. So that too saved me a lot of time.
Job done. :D
Wow.
Spoiler
I'm a turtle-then-slowly-advance-and-not-very-effectively-either kind of guy. I'd thought of using berthas to kill the totem runners and strafers to hold back the digitalis to keep more from spawning, but by the time I was at a point where berthas were an option, the emitters were too powerful for me to use the berthas for anything but advancing if I wanted to win the map within the next 7 years. #runonsentence
I could probably improve my time significantly if I do it again without making stupid mistakes. Taking a walk halfway through the map probably hurt too...
I don't wanna spoil your "Wow this map is hard"athon, PF, but it's really much easier without
Spoiler
... that Forge. If you land two CNs up in the NorthWest NORTHEAST, you have just enough energy to nullify it and that runner nest which spawns Totem runners before the C floods the area. Then you can evac your CNs to a safer location and take the map on with leisure.
Add my kudos to all the others.
Very fun and one of the only CW3 entries (so far) that I will play again.
I tried to run hard across the bottom and up, then switched to straight up the left side and across.
Alt. title: "As the world burns". (Those over 40-ish will not have to do a web search.)
H
Quote from: TLMike on February 17, 2014, 06:21:22 PM
I don't wanna spoil your "Wow this map is hard"athon, PF, but it's really much easier without Spoiler
... that Forge. If you land two CNs up in the NorthWest...
???
I'd sure like to see a picture of someone landing 2xCN's in the "NorthWest" quadrant of the map.
Did I mean East? I think I meant East.
Quote from: TLMike on February 17, 2014, 06:34:28 PM
Did I mean East? I think I meant East.
Must have done.
I just tried it and it worked.
Cool.
Quote from: TLMike on February 17, 2014, 06:21:22 PM
I don't wanna spoil your "Wow this map is hard"athon, PF, but it's really much easier without Spoiler
... that Forge. If you land two CNs up in the NorthWest NORTHEAST, you have just enough energy to nullify it and that runner nest which spawns Totem runners before the C floods the area. Then you can evac your CNs to a safer location and take the map on with leisure.
I tried that, a runner stunned the nullifier and it died. Then I tried it again and succeeded. As a rule of thumb I don't like tactics that random events (runner motion) can make or break without notice. Normal (or upgraded) runner behavior is OK because the player can look at where the runners are going and plan accordingly, while this basically depends on the runner going a certain way out of the nest, which can't be predicted.
Anyway, my time still beats yours.
Yeah it did :P
But, I did like the part where there was no Forge.
Awesome map!
A few problems:
1) The PZ makey thing creates permanent power sucking PZ's, but off-center where you don't expect it (I managed to land my only one halfway on top of an ore patch). Couldn't figure out how to destroy them.
2) The mission fails when you nullify the last emitter.
3) I never did find a beam tech to use with the beam shrine.
Lots of cool new stuff though- one of my favorite maps overall.
Quote from: speef on February 17, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
Awesome map!
A few problems:
1) The PZ makey thing creates permanent power sucking PZ's, but off-center where you don't expect it (I managed to land my only one halfway on top of an ore patch). Couldn't figure out how to destroy them.
2) The mission fails when you nullify the last emitter.
3) I never did find a beam tech to use with the beam shrine.
Lots of cool new stuff though- one of my favorite maps overall.
1. You're meant to Terraform the land so that you can set the PZs where you can use them.
2. The mission dialog clearly states that you have to land a Command Node in the large spinny spiral area after destroying all the Emitters and Totems.
3. The author already noted that he forgot to remove it.
What TLMike said.
Quote from: speef on February 17, 2014, 08:20:26 PM
1) The PZ makey thing creates permanent power sucking PZ's, but off-center where you don't expect it (I managed to land my only one halfway on top of an ore patch). Couldn't figure out how to destroy them.
If you were trying to make a PZ mine, you can't. They're intentionally misaligned, because ore mines gain nothing from PZs.
If however you mean that the PZ is off center from where the PZ generator is, that's a problem.
Quote from: TLMike on February 17, 2014, 08:29:12 PM
2. The mission dialog clearly states that you have to land a Command Node in the large spinny spiral area after destroying all the Emitters and Totems.
You don't need to destroy the emitters, just totems.
I'm betting in the next map we only get one CN.
Also, in trying to nullify one of the flamers, I discovered a PZ generator on a PZ gains no benefits. :-\ Not even a reduced rate of energy consumption or increased storage. Well, I think there was a note to that tune somewhere, so I shouldn't be surprised by that.
TLMike: A diagram, if I understand you correctly:
|R|
|R| |G| ||| |||
|R|
R: Relay, G: Reactor
Red is the center of the constructor, and green is where the PZ shows up.
I assume when you say they showed up off-center, you expected the PZ to be where the Reactor is, and not the generator.
However, if the generator were built to the side where the relays are and the PZ where the Reactor is, then A: there would be no need to pick a direction, and B: you could not fit a bertha onto the PZ.
I wasn't complaining about that. But thanks.
So far it's a really good fight. (Will have to resume tomorrow when I have more time.
However I seem to have found a minor graphic bug. The attached screenshot shows the beam from my nullifier remaining after nullifier destroyed stationary flamethrower with the aid of a wall. (Flamethrower flame and nullifier beam were on the precise same line.)
(edit) This did go away when I restarted from my save.
I had the same type of bug, but in a different location. In that case, though, I was nullifying a RunnerFlamethrower.
Quote from: Katra on February 20, 2014, 01:17:36 AM
So far it's a really good fight. (Will have to resume tomorrow when I have more time.
However I seem to have found a minor graphic bug. The attached screenshot shows the beam from my nullifier remaining after nullifier destroyed stationary flamethrower with the aid of a wall. (Flamethrower flame and nullifier beam were on the precise same line.)
(edit) This did go away when I restarted from my save.
I've seen this as well. I'm not drawing the beam though, the nullifier is. I've noticed that some effects persist permanently if the unit they are attached to goes away. For example, if a runner stuns a unit, and then you destroy the unit in the editor, the "stunned" animation continues to play until you reload.
In short, we should probably pester Virgil about this.
Quote from: TLMike on February 20, 2014, 03:06:57 AM
I had the same type of bug, but in a different location. In that case, though, I was nullifying a RunnerFlamethrower.
I thought you could only snipe them... ?
Well. The Nullifier was also targeting a Runner Nest and the RunnerFlamethrower walked into range. Gave me two PZs--one for each. I thought it was strange.
Huh.
Will investigate this...
Well, the Line is gone now that I've reloaded the save. But, the second PZ is still there. Functional, too. I don't think there should be one there, though. If it helps, I'm using ver 1.80 of the game.
Quote from: TLMike on February 20, 2014, 11:20:15 PM
Well, the Line is gone now that I've reloaded the save. But, the second PZ is still there. Functional, too. I don't think there should be one there, though. If it helps, I'm using ver 1.80 of the game.
Ahaha.... oh, this is embarassing.
Spoiler
For whatever reason, CONST_CREATEPZ and CONST_NULLIFIERDAMAGES aren't turned off for napalm cores until a couple frames after they spawn.
The beam doesn't appear now either. Unfortunately, now I need to restart the next map if I want the one line of code I added to take effect in the version I upload. And I was doing so well, too... grumble grumble...
Does the next map happen to be named "Foxglove"?
I have a feeling that's the name of one of your upcoming maps.
Quote from: Flabort on February 22, 2014, 07:16:45 PM
Does the next map happen to be named "Foxglove"?
I have a feeling that's the name of one of your upcoming maps.
Um... no.
The reference is lost on me, sadly.
(Googles it)
Oh, that's good. That is VERY good. And it is indeed an excellent fit for the next map...