This topic is for discussion of map #80: Ongtupqa
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=80)
Author: ThirdParty
Size: 135x46
Desc:
Build bridges across the Grand Canyon! Space is at a premium in this vertical landscape. #CRPL: Nothing earth-shattering, but there's an offscreen runner nest, a bunch of tiny emitters that don't leave power zones when destroyed, and a spore tower that becomes gradually more powerful as you advance. Creeper flows faster than usual. #TechLimits: #NoTerps, #NoGuppies; Relays are more expensive than usual. #Spores #Runners #Wind #RealWorld #Earth #USA #Arizona #3P
Quote from: AutoPost on January 12, 2014, 03:07:58 PM
This topic is for discussion of map #80: Ongtupqa
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=80)
Author: ThirdParty
Size: 135x46
Desc:
Build bridges across the Grand Canyon! Space is at a premium in this vertical landscape. #CRPL: Nothing earth-shattering, but there's an offscreen runner nest, a bunch of tiny emitters that don't leave power zones when destroyed, and a spore tower that becomes gradually more powerful as you advance. Creeper flows faster than usual. #TechLimits: #NoTerps, #NoGuppies; Relays are more expensive than usual. #Spores #Runners #Wind #RealWorld #Earth #USA #Arizona #3P
Map looks excellent! But that name...
Google the name and you'll get it...
Now, I am having a really hard time getting a good start on this map. The wind, the tight energy contraints... the spikes when you take out a mini emitter combined with the wind... tough.
I eke out a living spot and then I look around and ask myself "where to next?" and I don't see it. Frustrating. And I really don't think I'm going back and trying to finish it. Sorry, because I"m sure from my own experiments in map making that it's really hard to make a map like this and play it and test it over a number of iterations. It's just too hard and frustrating.
As for the name - nice one, I love it when I learn new things.
Wow, finally beat it. It was tough, I'll grant you that. My time is the worst one as well (currently) I think. It was difficult to move forward almost to the end. Once I took out the emitter at the top of the map and got a PZ things got easier, but I still had to be very careful where things were placed.
Trivial question - is this an actual representation of (or a portion of) the Grand Canyon?
Or 'just' a generic canyon map?
Either way, it's an awesome looking map - I look forward to playing it!
Quote from: Cavemaniac on January 12, 2014, 09:07:05 PMTrivial question - is this an actual representation of (or a portion of) the Grand Canyon?
Or 'just' a generic canyon map?
All of my maps (except Reticle and Racquet) are representations of the actual places indicated by their names. I'm terrible at drawing terrain freehand, and I don't like the DMD, so my method of terrain creation is to choose an interesting location, find a topographic/relief/bathymetric map of that location, and then trace it. (If anyone else cares to join me with this method, use the hashtag #RealWorld.)
In this case, the map encompasses a large portion (roughly the central half) of Grand Canyon National Park. Your landing pad is the park headquarters: Grand Canyon Village, AZ, population 2000.
Of course, I made no particular effort to be accurate; once I'd traced my reference map, I closed it and started making whatever changes looked good or played well. Most notably, I added fictional terrain to the tops of the in-reality-very-flat mesas: elevations 7 thru 10 on the map all correspond to the same elevation in reality. I also eliminated some minor crevasses, widened a couple of spires and ridges to make assaults easier, did a bunch of smoothing, and fixed a few spots where reality was unrealistic.
Quote from: Cavemaniac on January 12, 2014, 09:07:05 PM
Trivial question - is this an actual representation of (or a portion of) the Grand Canyon?
Or 'just' a generic canyon map?
Either way, it's an awesome looking map - I look forward to playing it!
Compare for yourself. https://goo.gl/maps/neswb
I gave up after almost an hour of game time.
Great concept, but why give 2xCN's - with no place to drop the second one...and no Terps?
Things do get a lot better after taking out the true Emitter, but fighting that terrain made think I was back in the Hindu Kush.
A Terp, a Terp, my kingdom for a Terp!
Love the map. Making real terrain into a CW3 map that is fun to play is not easy and you succeeded (again). Also, I don't understand why your maps don't receive higher ratings.
Quote from: Helper on January 13, 2014, 07:37:23 AMGreat concept, but why give 2xCN's - with no place to drop the second one...and no Terps?
I gave the second CN because, if something destroys the first one, the player is probably in plenty of trouble even without having to wait 30 seconds to re-land.
I didn't give Terps because, honestly, they're much too powerful. The player would be able to build a tall fortress, gradually expand its walls, and basically ignore the beautiful terrain he was annihilating. It'd make the map monotonous and unchallenging. I did give shields and AC, so it's not like the player has to do hard-core CW1-style assaults.
Quote from: eduran on January 13, 2014, 08:13:35 AMI don't understand why your maps don't receive higher ratings.
I don't either. My guess is that people downrate them for being hard; I noticed that this map got a couple of very low ratings before anyone completed it, and then its rating started climbing rapidly as scores started being posted. (I wish there were a way to see a histogram of scores, so I could tell whether a given map was loved by some and hated by others, or viewed as mediocre by everyone.)
Quote from: ThirdParty on January 13, 2014, 09:07:22 AM
I gave the second CN because, if something destroys the first one, the player is probably in plenty of trouble even without having to wait 30 seconds to re-land.
And then the land the second CN into the same puddle of Creeper that killed the first one? It seems kinder to just force them to re-start from scratch, or the last save.
I didn't give Terps because, honestly, they're much too powerful.
The offer was my kingdom for a Terp (singular).
:)
Restricting game options/forcing everyone to play the way you want them to play will tend to result in lower ratings. I mention that because of your extended comments about the ratings of your games.
In CW2, harder maps got lower ratings, this might also be true for CW3.
I'm about to move the meta-discussion on map ratings out of this thread to a more generally accessible location.
Quote from: J on January 13, 2014, 09:59:10 AM
In CW2, harder maps got lower ratings, this might also be true for CW3.
I've seen a lot of that. My ratings are always based on the 'fun quotient'. If I'm having a good time, I don't care about the difficulty...I just want to kill some Creeper.
:)
Quote from: Helper on January 13, 2014, 09:37:39 AMQuote from: ThirdParty on January 13, 2014, 09:07:22 AMI gave the second CN because, if something destroys the first one, the player is probably in plenty of trouble even without having to wait 30 seconds to re-land.
And then the land the second CN into the same puddle of Creeper that killed the first one? It seems kinder to just force them to re-start from scratch, or the last save.
During one of my balancing play-throughs, there was an incident where everything was going fine until the wind drove a tiny droplet of creeper under my CN without me noticing. My defenses were intact, there'd just been a small leak, and I had it cleaned up five seconds after noticing the problem. I then spent the next twenty-five seconds nervously watching spores fly around and wondering whether my beam network would have enough ammo.
I decided I didn't want that to happen again. The wind exists mainly to make it harder to drain the east side and to make some of the assaults trickier; it wasn't meant to make stealth assassin droplets. I changed the shape of the landing pad slightly to create some natural drains, but I also went ahead and allowed a second CN just in case.
Got it - thanks for the explanation.
I forgot that (as the creator), you've already played through this many times.
H
Sooo....
I've never been to the Grand Canyon, but I have been to the Fish River Canyon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_River_Canyon) in Namibia - the largest canyon in Africa.
Like Ongtupqa (or so I imagine - I just told you I've not been there) the scale is jaw dropping.
Now I'm imagining it full of creeper.
Now I'm imagining thrill seekers 'white water' rafting on the creeper.
That's something I'd pay to see...
And now I'm imagining creeper welling up from holes in the bottom of the boat as if it were floating on some kind of acidic sea.
People moving up around the edges trying not to get touched by the viscous substance.
With a final terminator esque scene of people sinking into the creeper, one skeletal hand coming back up before disappearing forever .
I bet most people don't consider what's actually happening when the creeper overwhelms Odin city.
Quote from: ThirdParty on January 13, 2014, 04:45:34 PMstealth assassin droplets
dot tumblr dot com?
The map was really hard. I couldn't figure out where I was supposed to go after taking the landing platform and I couldn't get enough weapons up because of the limited space.
@Asbestos -
I'm in the middle of something, but will post a spoiler for you later.
H
Not sure if this will help or not.
Taken at 9:05
Quote from: Cavemaniac on January 21, 2014, 04:18:09 AM
Sooo....
Now I'm imagining thrill seekers 'white water' rafting on the creeper.
Caveman - White water rafting down the Colorado River (go to the rim of the Grand Canyon and drop down one mile) used to be big bidnez. They would put about 12 paying customers in a large raft, give them all paddles, and turn them loose. For the sake of the equipment, they would also put in 3-4 staff members to keep everyone out of trouble.
Did that back in the 80's and it was a significant rush.
H
Quote from: Helper on January 21, 2014, 12:39:51 PMNot sure if this will help or not.
Taken at 9:05
Interesting. I tend to operate on much more of a shoe-string budget, while being more aggressive about taking out mini-emitters:
Quote from: ThirdParty on January 21, 2014, 06:07:45 PM
Quote from: Helper on January 21, 2014, 12:39:51 PMNot sure if this will help or not.
Taken at 9:05
Interesting. I tend to operate on much more of a shoe-string budget, while being more aggressive about taking out mini-emitters:
Based on comparative scores, you would do better to beef up your power before going after the Emitters. By building a nice core of Reactors, your Nullifier builds go much more quickly.
Quote from: Helper on January 21, 2014, 07:00:40 PMQuote from: ThirdParty on January 21, 2014, 06:07:45 PMQuote from: Helper on January 21, 2014, 12:39:51 PMNot sure if this will help or not.
Taken at 9:05
Interesting. I tend to operate on much more of a shoe-string budget, while being more aggressive about taking out mini-emitters:
Based on comparative scores, you would do better to beef up your power before going after the Emitters. By building a nice core of Reactors, your Nullifier builds go much more quickly.
If I were playing for speed, yeah. But it's so heartbreaking to have to demolish the reactor farm to make room for titans.