I'm (as usual) looking for advice.
So far, I have found no real use for Strafers. They don't seem to cut Creeper much & they really don't seem to cut deep Creeper at all. If I have any ore at all, Bombers are my Aerial weapon of choice. (And Bombers over Sprayers always. I generally use Sprayers only to soak up "used" AC. The 50 units that they hold no matter what really bugs me! But I digress.)
I feel like I must be missing something. Strafers wouldn't be in the game if they didn't serve a good purpose. I've tried using 4 or 5 & still don't seem to get a good result. I've seen the occasional screen shot with multiple Strafers, so I'm thinking you need at least 6 to do any real damage to Creeper.
Bottom line: What is the minimum amount needed to really make a difference? Do they need to run the same line or should they be spread out a little/a lot? To help clarify, I am speaking of the use of Strafers in either Story Mode or Prospector Zone as opposed to the more challenging maps that can be found elsewhere. More so in Prospector Zone since that is where my admittedly low skill level is happy. OR, are they really of use in the "elsewhere"?
Thoughts & opinions?
They're most useful in taking out digitalis.
I agree with OP. I hardly ever find a use for Strafers.
I use them regularly, when I need to thin out the creeper in remote locations and don't have access to ore to supply bombers. Takes at least 4 to do any good, but even two or three help a smidgen.
Strafers are good
I only use about 10 strafers and 2 cannons with 1 morter to get through some creeper
With thin creeper I use 5 and 1 cannons with 1 morter
I can post a screenshot of me doing it 8)
I sometimes get about 10 bombers ready just in case some bad happens like a spore hit or something like that or I just dump them all in front of my weapons and move them forward(really useful)
A single Strafer is week. However, as said, they can take out digitalis. If you have a few of them carving a path across a choke point on digitalis, they can keep large sections of it from growing.
I partially agree with the OP. Yes, strafers are a energy-inefficient way to destroy creeper, and you will hardly see any effect using only 1 or 2 of them. I generally use them in two ways:
1: (as has been said before) Strafers are great at cutting digitalis arms. Launch 2 strafers at the same time to cut a small branch of digitalis. If there is an "arm" of digitalis reaching toward you base, this is a very effective way of reducing the amount of creeper near your base and to get rid of those runners near your base. You will probably need 2 more strafers to deal with the digitalis when the first two strafers are reloading. Yes, having 4 strafers does cost some energy, but it is sometimes definitely worth it to cut the digitalis.
2: If I have spare energy (which is usually the case when I have had a steady position for a while, and when I start reconquering land from the creeper, then having some strafers shoot at the creeper to help - for example - to protect a nullifier can be worth it.
So strafers are bad at destroying creeper (but can help if you have enough energy) but shine when you can cut of digitalis at a chokepoint.
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By the way: I have exactly the same feeling you have about strafers, but then about bombers. I generally build 1 or 2 sprayers, which will usually require more AC than all ore mine on the map will give me. I prefer sprayers over bombers, because
(1) they are cheaper
(2) they deliver the AC exactly where I want it: on the border of the creeper and my defensive/attacking units. There is absolute no reason to waste AC by sending a bomber to far away or deep creeper. Okay, there is one reason: when you want to send a landing party (i.e. guppies+weapons) there, but even then sprayers can do the job , because they have a decent amount of hp. Okay, it is annoying that you can't refill sprayers on a distance, because guppies can't carry AC (or at least, I have not found a way), so in that case bombers might be useful. But in any other case I haven't seen a good use for them. I'd love to hear other's opinions about this.
I too mostly use strafers to cut digitalis paths. By far the best way to cut the enemy off at the pass. Especially when there are runners. If you can put a strafer base on a power zone you have a weapon that can do some real damage; though I still find them mostly useful against digitalis. (Though there is something to be said for highly mobile aircraft for cleaning up areas of leftover thin creeper.)
I don't use bombers often; and half of the time it's been as preparation/support for landing on distant islands.
Strafers are effective, you just have to know how to use them in the right way. i.e., sometimes you can't see the effect of Strafers where you're aiming at, but on your front lines you can. They're mainly used for relieving pressure. You just have to know where to aim them to relieve pressure from where you need it relieved.
I rarely make less than 10 strafers at a time and even circling a single emitter they aren't that effective. Generally I'll entrust them to slowing the spread of the leading edge of creeper before it gets to my main defenses.
I agree with much that has been said. Strafers are good for cutting digitalis choke points, or thinning out creeper if you have excess energy. I sometimes build strafers then only turn on their resupply at times of excess energy(though over 4-8 strafers berthas serve the same purpose better) When they really shine for me is for using PZ's that have fallen behind the front line(especially if the spot is too small or energy/time is too tight for a bertha). On a PZ they definitely feel energy efficient, just one feels more effective then 3 or 4 normal ones on bunched up creeper.
I usually use strafers 10+ at a time, on huge maps together with berthas and bombers to jump from one emitter to another and just guppy build a nullifier. Also they are useful on island maps when you don't have enough space to place enough weapons on the frontline. But I agree that mortars or PC are better. I miss the CW1 drone, if we could change the settings on bombers to carry packets and fire mortar shots......
I tend to build at least 8-10 strafers if at all.
I often use them if I keep playing a world after I win it to completely sanitize the map.
I also use them if a section of creeper I mean to deploy bombers over is too thick for them but not thick enough to resort to berthas.
I actually don't use them against digitalis much because it grows back too fast in my opinion and that scenario requires a number of strafers with micromanaged attack time intervals to really suppress it. Then again, maybe that's because I play worlds with Inhibitors too often.
Even though the PZ strafer is cool, I rarely use that because it's all about numbers; and how often are enemy structures that close to one another anyway?
Bombers are slower and had a lot of technical issues even after release as I recall, but I think they are still far superior to strafers.
Strafers are good. There is a learning curve to using them due to the slightly higher amount of power they need per smaller damage output.
I perfer to use strafers to target emitters directly. Depending on the power of the emitter i can normally cancel out an emitter. Even if i don't i can cut an emitters output in half (power depended) which helps ALOT on the fount.
How i use them i depending on the power i have i build 1-2 at a time. Up to 5 then select them disarm them and target an emitter. Then build 5 more.
All the while switching between cannons, morters and reactors mostly.
Then open fire with the 1st wave of strafers i watch them once they are down to about 25-30 ammo i send the 2nd wave of strafers. Works really well for me.
Quote from: Ninjadude501 on November 11, 2013, 11:53:45 PM
Strafers are effective, you just have to know how to use them in the right way. i.e., sometimes you can't see the effect of Strafers where you're aiming at, but on your front lines you can. They're mainly used for relieving pressure. You just have to know where to aim them to relieve pressure from where you need it relieved.
This is so true.
The best way to see a quantifiable result from strafer fire is to watch Virgil's video where he reveals the freeze AoO.
With the creeper frozen, you can really see the effect of even a small number of strafers.
Quote from: Cavemaniac on November 12, 2013, 01:36:50 PM
This is so true.
The best way to see a quantifiable result from strafer fire is to watch Virgil's video where he reveals the freeze AoO.
With the creeper frozen, you can really see the effect of even a small number of strafers.
Agreed, the Freezer makes a great complement to the strafer, but how often do players run across a freezer, let alone mor ethan one at once? ::)
Thank you all so much for your input, ideas & suggestions! I have a lot to think about & with which to experiment.
I did get a chance to use 5 Strafers against an arm of Digitalis & they did slow it down...BUT it comes right back. Because Strafers & Bombers use so much time to spin around & come back, the Digitalis had plenty of time to re-generate.
I won't give up on Strafers. But I do think there is a time & place for their best use & unlike other weapons they are not useful on every map. Give me a single Cannon set to Digitalis over 8 Strafers anytime.
It is a shame though that there is not more power in a single Strafer, especially at 50 a pop. I'd like them a lot better if they were like flying cannons! :) At 1/2 the 'price', and at least twice the damage, I'll take a cannon.
I still like Bombers over Sprayers. I guess (?) Bombers lay down more AC because it seems as though what Bombers lay down stays down, whereas what Sprayers throw out gets eaten back up pretty quickly. (Except for a small area directly in front of the Sprayer). And once that happens it is gone for good. With Bombers I have lots of left over AC as I move them forward & I then use the Sprayers to soak it back up to be used again. Also, Bombers can give you a lane of protection to move forward even if there is no Creeper directly in front of your line. Bombers lay down AC where you tell them to while Sprayers only divvy out AC if Creeper is already in front of them.
EDIT: If only Bombers didn't make that whistling noise that hurts my ears! lol
Quote from: Nephthys on November 12, 2013, 09:10:14 PM
I did get a chance to use 5 Strafers against an arm of Digitalis & they did slow it down...BUT it comes right back. Because Strafers & Bombers use so much time to spin around & come back, the Digitalis had plenty of time to re-generate.
Try staggering them instead of sending them all at once in a group. Then there's usually at least 1 or 2 shooting at the ground at any given time and keeping it from growing back.
Quote from: Grayzzur on November 12, 2013, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Nephthys on November 12, 2013, 09:10:14 PM
I did get a chance to use 5 Strafers against an arm of Digitalis & they did slow it down...BUT it comes right back. Because Strafers & Bombers use so much time to spin around & come back, the Digitalis had plenty of time to re-generate.
Try staggering them instead of sending them all at once in a group. Then there's usually at least 1 or 2 shooting at the ground at any given time and keeping it from growing back.
K. Will do!
Quote from: Ringo on November 12, 2013, 11:31:30 AM
I perfer to use strafers to target emitters directly. Depending on the power of the emitter i can normally cancel out an emitter. Even if i don't i can cut an emitters output in half (power depended) which helps ALOT on the fount.
That's sounds like an effective way to use them! Anything to slow down 30 or 40+ emitter is very helpful.
I am a certifiable over-builder. That said you can take what I say from that viewpoint. If I have the time and real estate to support them I build a lot of strafers. like 20-30 of them. I then send half of them to the emitter I'm moving on and the other half to clear the path. Often a good strategy, but not the fastest.
Strafers are also good for getting more energy "on target" simultaneously. Mortars/cannons are the most efficient means of projecting energy (as damage) onto Creeper, but you can rapidly run into the issue in tighter quarters or heavy-creeper situations where you simply cannot get enough guns into range to have good effect on target. This is where strafers really shine, especially if you have move speed upgrades; allowing you to hit an area with more guns simultaneously. If you have extra space in the back of your base, your frontline is stuck, and aren't running close to or slightly red, you should be building strafers to pound your target area... if you are running a bit of a deficit, add reactors to taste :)
i use strafers in groups of 9 (fits in my ocd base layout in a nice 3x3 ;)) and i use them primarily for emitter suppression.
i tend to use 9 for emitters up to around 40x1/2secs then 18 for med strength emitters 27+ for strong ones. 36+ (with berthas) too for mega emitters.
i stagger the deployment as i can afford the energy, i start asap on big maps, even if that means just 3 strafers per emitter to begin with. first it stops sudden energy demands from larger groups landing for reload at once, second it can slow creeper densities significantly (and as you increase the strafers per emitter they cut down density slowly too), third it will seriously stop digitalis if all digi connected emitters are suppressed
in short i love strafers, most tactically useful unit (barring AEZ's) in my opinion
Quote from: Nephthys on November 12, 2013, 09:10:14 PM
It is a shame though that there is not more power in a single Strafer, especially at 50 a pop. I'd like them a lot better if they were like flying cannons! :) At 1/2 the 'price', and at least twice the damage, I'll take a cannon.
Put some strafers on PZ's!
They get triple firepower (and I think they carry more ammo - but don't take everything I say on faith!).
Quote from: Cavemaniac on November 14, 2013, 05:24:13 AM
Quote from: Nephthys on November 12, 2013, 09:10:14 PM
It is a shame though that there is not more power in a single Strafer, especially at 50 a pop. I'd like them a lot better if they were like flying cannons! :) At 1/2 the 'price', and at least twice the damage, I'll take a cannon.
Put some strafers on PZ's!
They get triple firepower (and I think they carry more ammo - but don't take everything I say on faith!).
I've learned to used them on Emitters & have found that to be very helpful. I'll try your suggestion as well. Thx!
yeah, I use them in groups to slice through digitalis(set them to make at least three lines side by side to ensure a cut once the creeper is thin enough), and to suppress emitters, mainly to suppress their connection to the digitalis to prevent growth.
The main way I use strafers is kind of a combo of both of the prevailing methods. For the most part, I'll only really use them in maps with digitalis in them. At first I'll just cut off a few arms with 4-6 planes to stall it while I build up a strong base and start pushing out. Once I get enough energy to really attack I'll set the strafers to target the digitalis generating emitters, building more as needed. Generally this means about 4-6 per emitter. This won't do much against the creeper unless it's really weak, but it stops digi in its tracks. This works even better with a bertha or two (they make everything better, don't they) targeting the emitter as well.
Parking 8 Strafers over an emitter effectively nullifies it's digitalis producing capability (REGARDLESS of how much creeper it produces).
I find this strategy works far better than "cutting off" the digitalis at a choke point since, in my case, I can kill ALL the digitalis!
Also, I find it more useful to run strafers up an arm of digitalis if it's thin enough, that can hold off the growth for a long time and push it back rather successfully.
Quote from: Kharnellius on November 17, 2013, 09:43:10 AM
Parking 8 Strafers over an emitter effectively nullifies it's digitalis producing capability (REGARDLESS of how much creeper it produces).
I find this strategy works far better than "cutting off" the digitalis at a choke point since, in my case, I can kill ALL the digitalis!
This is great advice! 't Has improved my times on maps with digitalis by quite a bit.
Quote from: Lord_Farin on November 20, 2013, 08:45:14 AM
Quote from: Kharnellius on November 17, 2013, 09:43:10 AM
Parking 8 Strafers over an emitter effectively nullifies it's digitalis producing capability (REGARDLESS of how much creeper it produces).
I find this strategy works far better than "cutting off" the digitalis at a choke point since, in my case, I can kill ALL the digitalis!
This is great advice! 't Has improved my times on maps with digitalis by quite a bit.
Excellent! I am glad it helped and that someone was able to verify this method. :) Carry on, fellow creeper slayer! :D
EDIT: I should note, for those who want to try this, it can take a short while for it to actually begin working. The Strafers have to settle into the proper timing routine (which naturally happens on it's own). You can speed up the time it takes to get into this routine, by staggering your launches initially and letting them get into their own groove. Also, If the destination is really far or really close, you may want to increase (to guarantee enough coverage) or reduce the number you send (to conserve energy).
Quote from: 4xC on November 12, 2013, 08:03:07 PM
Quote from: Cavemaniac on November 12, 2013, 01:36:50 PM
This is so true.
The best way to see a quantifiable result from strafer fire is to watch Virgil's video where he reveals the freeze AoO.
With the creeper frozen, you can really see the effect of even a small number of strafers.
Agreed, the Freezer makes a great complement to the strafer, but how often do players run across a freezer, let alone mor ethan one at once? ::)
Nah strafers and the freezer is not my idea of a good combo. Its best for a few big brethas and a guppy (with build faster upgraded for good measure) to be used with a freeze even the biggest emitter does not stand a chance.
Still strafers are highly useful when used right.
Quote from: 4xC on November 12, 2013, 10:15:23 AM
I actually don't use them against digitalis much because it grows back too fast in my opinion and that scenario requires a number of strafers with micromanaged attack time intervals to really suppress it. Then again, maybe that's because I play worlds with Inhibitors too often.
Not at all. Read my previous post. Try it out. If there is only 2 or 3 emitters creating digitalis you can easily shut down the ENTIRE digitalis network by parking 5-7 strafers directly over the emitter. It can take a few runs, but eventually the strafers will work themselves out in an order that prevents digitalis ever returning. Plus it is sheer beauty watching an entire network of digitalis completely shrivel up!
Quote from: Kharnellius on December 02, 2013, 11:06:27 PMPlus it is sheer beauty watching an entire network of digitalis completely shrivel up!
Unless you're playing on a map with a lot of void space, and forgot to protect your island(s) from the creeper that was in the void before that happens. Boom! Learned that the hard way.
Did you, by any chance, learn it with Void Islands, as seen here?
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14301.0 (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14301.0)
Nope, it was an alpha map. Lich's The name I believe.
Right, I recall that one; makes sense.