This topic was for sharing my maps, prior to the release of Colonial Space.
3P Tharsis
featuring hemishields
(released 12/6/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16445;image)
(info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg109166#msg109166))
3P Racquet
the smallest CW3 map in history
(released 11/29/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16345;image)
(info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg108727#msg108727))
3P Nihon
featuring unpleasant surprises
(released 11/28/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16329;image)
(info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg108629#msg108629))
3P Natlan
(released 11/22/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16285;image)
info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg108381#msg108381)
3P Khyber
featuring corrupted collectors
(released 11/6/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16056;image)
info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg107140#msg107140)
3P Beqaa
featuring corrupted beam towers and no PZs
(released 10/29/2013, updated 11/1/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15860;image)
info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg106512#msg106512)
3P Reticle
featuring corrupted beam towers
(released 10/29/2013, updated 11/1/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15863;image)
info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg106512#msg106512)
3P Hawai'i
with an endless ocean
(released 10/21/2013)
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15735;image)
info (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=14455.msg105803#msg105803)
3P Hawai'i (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15731))
Features:
- Gameplay is mostly standard CW3, but unlike DMD maps there are no redundancies. Your four main challenges are to establish a base (O'ahu), assault an enemy digitalis nest (Maui), make an optional airlift against a small enemy outpost (Kaua'i), and fight an uphill battle against an enemy air suppression tower (Hawai'i); each is interesting, feels like a real accomplishment, and is different from the others.
- The edges of the map, rather than being void, connect to an endless ocean with constant creeper depth. This prevents you from draining the map, but protects you from creeper accumulation.
- All enemy structures emit creeper, rather than having separate emitters, so power zones are at a premium. Also, you get a lot of aether resource packs before you finally get access to a totem, so you'll have to make tough decisions about what upgrades are most important.
- The map is based on fascinating real-world topography and bathymetry, with major landmarks labeled; it puts procedurally-generated maps to shame. It has also been fine-tuned for maximally-interesting gameplay; channels are just narrow enough to cross easily, peninsulas are just long enough that a mortar at the end will be able to reach a valuable target, and so on.
- No unfair surprises. There might be occasional waves lapping at the shoreline, but I promise not to destroy your entire base with a tsunami. It took me 56 minutes game time (15 minutes real time) to win, but I'm a slow and methodical player by nature, so many of you will be able to finish it much more quickly.
This map looks pretty awesome.
Quote from: TLMike on October 21, 2013, 11:55:02 PM
This map looks pretty awesome.
It
is awesome!
Got a game on the go and loving it.
Is it my imagination or have you somehow managed to make the creeper more gelatinous?
It seems to flow slower and you can punch holes in it.
Awesome!
I think that's a byproduct of his script that keeps the "ocean" full.
Brilliant map, well done.
Quote from: Cavemaniac on October 22, 2013, 03:37:13 AMIs it my imagination or have you somehow managed to make the creeper more gelatinous?
It seems to flow slower and you can punch holes in it.
Quote from: TLMike on October 22, 2013, 03:40:57 AMI think that's a byproduct of his script that keeps the "ocean" full.
Honestly, I'm not sure. I
think it's your imagination, but I can't pretend that I haven't felt it too. During balancing, I actually increased the creeper flow rate from the usual 0.2 to 0.25; so theoretically it's slightly
less viscous than usual. And contrary to TLMike's theory, it still flows at the same speed if I disable the ocean script.
I think the effect is just an illusion caused by the unusual situation. Usually we're either fighting on the front lines, where any creeper we destroy is quickly replaced by nearby higher-elevation creeper or a nearby emitter, or else we're cleaning up a stagnant pool, in which case it quickly dries up and the "holes" we punch never close. But on this map we have what is effectively a three-unit-deep, infinitely-wide stagnant pool. Each mortar shell punches one heck of a hole, and there's no high-elevation creeper available nearby to close it: the initial deep, narrow hole will evolve into a shallower, broader hole, but can never really stop being a hole since the creeper to refill it would have to come from somewhere. But since the total creeper in the pool is infinite, it can't dry up, either; after an infinite length of time, the hole would smooth out completely and the pool would be back at its original depth. So we're left with the feeling that the creeper is flowing slowly.
love this map. good work dude, i love the "sea of creeper" effect/script especially (i'll no doubt be shamelessly stealing that one ;)).
now you just have to do a world map :D
(or perhaps i should, then i have a reason to steal the script, right?)
Quote from: teknotiss on October 22, 2013, 03:17:41 PMlove this map. good work dude, i love the "sea of creeper" effect/script especially (i'll no doubt be shamelessly stealing that one ;)).
now you just have to do a world map :D
(or perhaps i should, then i have a reason to steal the script, right?)
Yeah, go for it.
Here's the core of the ocean script, in case anyone wants to use it without reinventing the wheel:
# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:4.5
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(GetWall(i j) neq0)
SetWall(i j 0)
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loop
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 21, 2013, 10:06:28 PM
The edges of the map, rather than being void, connect to an endless ocean with constant creeper depth. This prevents you from draining the map, but protects you from creeper accumulation.
I have conquered the state of Hawaii and drained and sealed away its surrounding ocean of creeper.
Quote from: Eketek on October 23, 2013, 12:10:46 AM
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 21, 2013, 10:06:28 PM
The edges of the map, rather than being void, connect to an endless ocean with constant creeper depth. This prevents you from draining the map, but protects you from creeper accumulation.
I have conquered the state of Hawaii and drained and sealed away its surrounding ocean of creeper.
how long did that take? :D
I am pleased to present a new enemy tower, and two new maps using it. (There's two because I wanted to show a fuller range of possible uses for it, one with it in a minor role as a defense bolster and the other with it in a major role as the primary opponent.)
-----
Corrupted Beam Tower
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15865;image)
This unit fills the same ecological niche as an Air Exclusion tower: it's a defensive tower intended to prevent aerial assault. However, it goes about it in a different way: by shooting at any unit it sees above itself. This means that any flying unit, even things like cannons and mortars, will have difficulty approaching it (unless they attack in large numbers and are willing to accept losses). It can also shoot at high-elevation land units, so Terp-based assaults are made more difficult as well.
edit 11/1/2013: I've uploaded new versions of the maps, fixing a bug and making minor some aesthetic tweaks.
-----
3P Beqaa (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15927))
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15860;image)
This map is based loosely on my memories a fun CW1 map I played in Chronom or Evermore at some point, and it has a very CW1 play style. I've disabled Berthas and Power Zones, so you have to make a conventional ground assault, and aether is very limited, so you'll have to pick and choose your upgrades. (However, unlike CW1, the enemy has Digitalis/Runner Nests and Corrupted Beam Towers, and you have Anti-Creeper, Terraforming, and Shields.)
This is a slightly more difficult map than 3P Hawai'i was: creeper piles up very quickly in the small space, and the digitalis grows fairly aggressively, so surviving the startup is a bit hectic. And even after the situation is stabilized, the Corrupted Beam Towers complicate your assault more than Air Exclusion Towers would. My win time was just over an hour (not counting the first attempt in which my base got destroyed about ten minutes in due to running out of energy at an inconvenient moment).
As usual, I guarantee no unfair surprises. Enemy towers release a bit of extra creeper when nullified, but not enough to be a serious threat.
-----
3P Reticle
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=15863;image)
This is a very different map, more space-islandy. Corrupted Beam Towers are the only enemy, but they're on islands (and one is at the bottom of a crater), which is where they're at their most effective. On the other hand, you have Power Zones, Berthas, and unlimited aether. So this is probably the easiest of the three maps I've released so far; there's no serious threat to your position, space is adequate if not plentiful, and so the only challenge is the puzzle of figuring out how to advance onto nearly-unreachable islands with unfamiliar defenses. My game time was again a litte under an hour, but that included a few moments of sitting back and watching it run while I contemplated my next move.
By the way, unlike the real-world geography of the other two maps, this one is a very artificial and symmetrical-looking map. However, don't be fooled by appearances; it was designed to encouraged interesting supply routes and to present unexpected asymmetries.
Note: a newer version, made more difficult in order to discourage brute-force assaults, is available in Colonial Space.
I must say, I admire your effort. I've been waiting for some imaginative enemy towers, and this certainly fits the bill. I was going to gripe that one cannot see the effective range of said towers, but, then, I unpaused time and behold, you have thought of everything. So, well done.
EDIT: Your beams don't play the beam sound when I fly a unit into range. Was this on purpose, did you forget, or do you simply not care?
ALSO: The beams continue to target units (Blasters and Mortars) which have landed. Was that intentional?
My mistake: it's part of the script which targets any unit on the same terrain or higher.
@ Beqaa's mission text: XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Quote from: TLMike on October 30, 2013, 01:18:36 AMYour beams don't play the beam sound when I fly a unit into range. Was this on purpose, did you forget, or do you simply not care?
Oops. I play with the sound off, and so forgot. Let me see if I can fix that...
Hmm, does anyone happen to know the name of the beam-firing sound? I can't seem to find it in the list of available options. Edit: I've played through the sounds that
are available, and don't really like any of them. Two kind of sound like beams, but one of those is loud and the other goes on for two long after I call it. I think I'll leave it on silent.
Fair enough. I think the sound might get rather annoying, anyway, with 40+ Stafers being beamed at once....
Quote from: TLMike on October 30, 2013, 02:19:59 PMFair enough. I think the sound might get rather annoying, anyway, with 40+ Stafers being beamed at once....
You went for overwhelming them with massed fliers, eh? My own strategy on these maps never gives the enemy beam towers the chance to fire a single shot.
Referring mostly to Reticle, which is the one I beat, as Beqaa overwhelmed me instantly: I most certainly had to overwhelm the central tower with something because it sits on the lowest terrain level. Any attempts to construct a nullifier nearby resulted in an effect I call "ONETWOTHREEDEATH". So, I overflew it with Strafers, and parked about 30 blasters nearby to distract the thing while I Nullified.
...Spoilers.
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 30, 2013, 05:05:34 PM
My own strategy on these maps never gives the enemy beam towers the chance to fire a single shot.
Would love to hear how that works on Reticle. There seems to be no way to deal with the center tower other than to present it with a bunch of targets to shoot at while constructing a nullifier.
I love the idea (and look) of your Corrupted Beam Tower. Gave me the idea to make a Corrupted Sprayer Tower to go with it. After playing around with Tower Fields, I think I can make it work, too. The one thing I don't have is a picture for it, and I absolutely cannot draw. Where did you get the picture you used for the Beam? If you made it yourself, would you consider doing a Sprayer version? And finally, if anyone wants, I can post the code I make for it here, so anyone can use it, and possibly improve upon it.
Quote from: eduran on October 30, 2013, 07:24:01 PMQuote from: ThirdParty on October 30, 2013, 05:05:34 PMMy own strategy on these maps never gives the enemy beam towers the chance to fire a single shot.
Would love to hear how that works on Reticle. There seems to be no way to deal with the center tower other than to present it with a bunch of targets to shoot at while constructing a nullifier.
There was an important clue for Reticle in the intro text: the corrupted beam tower has a line-of-sight restriction when attacking land units; it can't shoot at you if you stay behind a ridge.
Here's the intended solution to Reticle:
Spoiler
1. Assault the western and eastern islands normally. (The western island is easier, in my opinion; if you do it first, you'll have more space for things like Berthas and Reactors to support the assault on the eastern island. Don't try to do them both at once; it'd take too much energy.) Use a Relay on the western island's power zone to colonize the tiny resource spot in the northwest. You will probably want a Bertha on the eastern island's power zone, but that's optional.
2. Colonize the northeastern resource spot via Guppies from the eastern island. Then assault the northern island via Guppies from the northeastern resource spot. (As far as I know this is the first time in CW3 history that it's actually made sense to have one set of Guppies supplying another set of Guppies; it's necessary because you'll get shot down if you try to fly straight from the eastern island to the northern island.)
3. Link the northern island into your network by using a power-zoned Relay to connect it to the northwestern resource spot.
4. Put a Terp on the remaining power zone on the northern island, and use it to build a ridge on the central island (this is where that power-zoned Bertha would come in handy; it's the easiest of several possible ways to clear creeper from the central island for the instant that it takes your power-zoned Terp to do its magic). Then replace the power-zoned Terp with a power-zoned Sprayer, to secure the space on the safe side of the ridge.
5. Use the power-zoned relay that you already built on the northern island to colonize the space on the safe side of the ridge on the central island. Then nullify.
Quote from: TLMike on October 30, 2013, 06:12:23 PMBeqaa overwhelmed me instantly
Sorry to hear that. I assume that you recognized the landing pad in the southwest corner, that you noticed all three energy packs, and that you know how to set cannons to target digitalis rather than creeper. If so then it's just a matter of prioritizing the threats.
My strategy for establishing an initial base on Beqaa:
Spoiler
1. Land your CN in the southwest corner, and build siphons on the two energy packs.
2. Slow down the enemy creeper: build a cannon on the left side and a mortar on the high ground.
3. Drain the flooded energy pack and build a siphon on it.
4. Slow down the enemy digitalis: you'll want a digitalis-targeting cannon on the north end of the high ground and a second one on the east end of the high ground; the cannon you used to clear the flooded energy pack should also be set to target digitalis, and moved to the east of anything you've built on low ground.
5. Build some reactors and a beam tower to guard them from the spore that will be incoming about now.
6. As needed and when feasible, build a forge (for upgrading energy efficiency using the aether pack on the high ground), lots more reactors, a couple more beam towers, a couple more mortars, and a sniper or two, after which the situation should have stabilized. You'll probably be running a deficit as you do all this building, so it's a good idea to pay attention to ammo for crucial defensive structures and use "disable" and "stop resupply" commands to micromanage it if necessary. (It's not survivable to have creeper overflow the left side, digitalis overrun you anywhere, or a spore hit a reactor. You can survive having creeper start lapping at the high ground, having a spore hit a defensive structure, or having a runner stun something, but obviously these events are also to be avoided as much as possible.)
Quote from: Riluna on October 30, 2013, 08:07:52 PMI love the idea (and look) of your Corrupted Beam Tower. Gave me the idea to make a Corrupted Sprayer Tower to go with it. After playing around with Tower Fields, I think I can make it work, too. The one thing I don't have is a picture for it, and I absolutely cannot draw. Where did you get the picture you used for the Beam? If you made it yourself, would you consider doing a Sprayer version?
Yes, I made the Corrupted Beam Tower image myself. (The beam itself is by Virgil from one of the built-in maps.) It's really just a simple splice of the center of a beam tower (appropriately recolored) onto an alternative emitter image. (Making a Corrupted Sprayer would be even easier. For the stationary base, just use one of the alternative emitter images from here (http://knucklecracker.com/wiki/doku.php?id=cw3:units:concepts#emitter); for the moving barrel, take the sprayer barrel from here (http://knucklecracker.com/wiki/doku.php?id=crpl:custom_image_repository#cw3_weapon_units) and replace the cyans with blues.)
By the way, I feel like I saw a tower like you're describing, somewhere. You might want to poke around the alpha sector a bit and see whether it already exists.
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 30, 2013, 09:23:56 PM
Here's the intended solution to Reticle: Spoilers
Spoiler
I forgot that I could put a Terp on one of the powerzones :o I actually flew a few over to the center with the rest of my units to try to build a ridge but they managed to die before they were able to do that.
One thing I noticed that might be a bug: the beams don't interact properly with Guppys. As long as you are flying over void (or any terrain lower than the beam tower) the Guppys don't get shot at.
Quote from: eduran on October 31, 2013, 05:29:51 AMOne thing I noticed that might be a bug: the beams don't interact properly with Guppys. As long as you are flying over void (or any terrain lower than the beam tower) the Guppys don't get shot at.
Ugh. Yes, that's a bug. And not
my bug either.
I've submitted a bug report to Virgil. There doesn't seem to be any possible workaround, so the only thing to do is wait for him to fix it. :-[
I'm probably wrong, but would it help to use the ISLANDED Unit Attribute? I would suspect that it ignores elevation and only checks to see whether a unit is moving (flying). Then you could target based on that, and add an else that also targets anything on a higher elevation.
After having played both new maps I've got to say: well done! The beam towers radically change the way you have to approach the enemy. Very enjoyable.
Quote from: Riluna on October 31, 2013, 10:13:29 AMI'm probably wrong, but would it help to use the ISLANDED Unit Attribute? I would suspect that it ignores elevation and only checks to see whether a unit is moving (flying). Then you could target based on that, and add an else that also targets anything on a higher elevation.
Yes, that's exactly what my script does.
It's failing on guppies because a bug in CW3 is causing flying guppies to incorrectly return ISLANDED=TRUE. I've reported the bug using the form on the wiki, so hopefully Virgil will get around to fixing it eventually.
Quote from: eduran on October 31, 2013, 05:01:57 PMAfter having played both new maps I've got to say: well done! The beam towers radically change the way you have to approach the enemy. Very enjoyable.
Thanks for the encouragement!
I've managed to break Beqaa. I got to this state, and the whole map locked up. The mission timer continues to progress, but all action on the map is completely frozen in this state.
Quote from: asmussen on October 31, 2013, 07:28:08 PMI've managed to break Beqaa. I got to this state, and the whole map locked up. The mission timer continues to progress, but all action on the map is completely frozen in this state.
That's odd. None of my scripting should be in danger of producing an infinite loop...
The beam tower script is a bit process-intensive, so maybe it's just because you have so many towers near the beam towers. Alternatively, I'm puzzled how your bomber could have gotten where it did without being shot down, and I haven't really experimented with what happens when a unit is outside the map, so maybe something is behaving unexpectedly due to the that.
What was the last thing you did before the freeze?
Well, I hadn't figured out the line of sight thing yet, so I was still trying to figure out how I was going to nullify the beam towers. I hadn't built any air units yet, because I assumed they'd be ineffective, but since I wasn't sure what to do next, I built that one strafer just to see what would happen. After it was built, I targeted one of the beam towers with it. It managed to fly to the position where you see it in the screenshot without getting shot down, and then everything just stopped. I just reloaded the saved game I made with it frozen, and actually not everything is frozen. The spinning animation on the corner of the command node is still going, and the spore towers continue to count down, and then make the launch sound, but never actually launch any spores. Everything else is just frozen completely in place. Not even the packets currently in route on the network move anywhere. I'm attaching the save game I made here in case you're interested in actually seeing it in that state.
Okay, I have a theory. Apparently strafers and bombers have the same bug as guppies; they return CONST_ISLANDED=TRUE even while in flight. (I've updated my bug report.) So my tower mistakes the strafer for a ground unit. Because it thinks it's a ground unit, it attempts to check line-of-sight. This results in invalid coordinates being fed into an IsTerrainLOS call, which skips them and grabs the previous item on the stack instead--which is unfortunately a Do Loop's counter.
You can resume your game by selecting the strafer and destroying it. This problem will go away after Virgil fixes the bug in CONST_ISLANDED.
An interesting if unfortunate problem. Still: these towers are excellent.
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 31, 2013, 11:54:40 PM
Okay, I have a theory. Apparently strafers and bombers have the same bug as guppies; they return CONST_ISLANDED=TRUE even while in flight. (I've updated my bug report.) So my tower mistakes the strafer for a ground unit. Because it thinks it's a ground unit, it attempts to check line-of-sight. This results in invalid coordinates being fed into an IsTerrainLOS call, which skips them and grabs the previous item on the stack instead--which is unfortunately a Do Loop's counter.
You can resume your game by selecting the strafer and destroying it. This problem will go away after Virgil fixes the bug in CONST_ISLANDED.
That's ok. I restored from an earlier saved game and finished the map already. It was a good map!
One problem is that the LOS function isn't range checked... I've just added that to the CRPL function. In this map it would cause an exception every game loop, hence the apparent lockup. The game shouldn't ever generate an exception based on anything that happens in CRPL, so that's one thing fixed.
As for the state of ISLANDED... I've received a few reports about this and the flying units. So I will take a look at this. The confusion probably comes from there being both a Strafer and a StraferPad and that Strafers internally derived from a different base class than other units (like mortars). Strafers (and a few other) are "Flying" units, not to be confused with "Movable" units like Mortars. I probably just need a little more logic to handle them with regards to this particular attribute.
There is actually a clear difference between a airborne unit being in the air and a terrain-based unit being in the air... One is offensive and has capabilities, the other is passive and can't *do* anything in that mode.
I've issued a maintenance release of Beqaa and Reticle. This release is recommended for all users.
Changelog:
- Guppies, strafers, and bombers are now targeted more-or-less correctly. (I realized that I could identify flying units by checking to see whether they were aligned with the grid.)
- Added a beam sound.
- Modified the intro texts to make the "line of sight" restriction more explicit.
- Rangefinder popup now also displays when the game first loads.
Quote from: virgilw on November 01, 2013, 10:07:03 AMThe confusion probably comes from there being both a Strafer and a StraferPad and that Strafers internally derived from a different base class than other units (like mortars). Strafers (and a few other) are "Flying" units, not to be confused with "Movable" units like Mortars. I probably just need a little more logic to handle them with regards to this particular attribute.
Sounds plausible.
By the way, I don't know if you saw my other bug report, but StraferPads have unit type "STRAFER" and Strafers themselves have unit type "". Ditto for the other flying units. Runners also have unit type "", which is very awkward. It would be nice if the type names were more rational.
Quote from: Grauniad on November 01, 2013, 10:58:19 AMThere is actually a clear difference between a airborne unit being in the air and a terrain-based unit being in the air... One is offensive and has capabilities, the other is passive and can't *do* anything in that mode.
Fair enough. I don't care if Virgil uses the ISLANDED attribute or a different one, just so long as he gives us some way to distinguish airborne units that are sitting on their launchpads (or, in the case of guppies, at their destinations) from airborne units that are airborne.
Presenting: 3P Khyber (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16054))
Special Feature: Corrupted Collectors which prevent ground units from coming into range, forcing you to attack enemy emitters from behind and in a strange order The enemy also grows gradually stronger as you progress, to keep it from being a total pushover at the end. (Though you're definitely growing stronger faster than it is; the hardest assault is the first one.)
Gameplay: The map is long (it took me about 1 hour and 45 minutes to win, playing leisurely while listening to music) but not especially difficult, with enemy emitters and spore towers set very low, and no digitalis threat; it's for those who enjoy making steady progress and securing large, oddly-shaped frontiers (as opposed to people who are looking for survival challenges or assault puzzles). This wasn't really the map I set out to make--my initial concept for the Corrupted Collectors worked on a small scale but then lagged when used on a large scale, so I had to change my plans at the last minute--but I think it's fun in its way.
Geology: The natural history of 3P Khyber involves a mountain range attempting to rise up directly in the path of a river. The river holds it down for a bit, eventually loses the struggle, shifts to a more northern course, and then the cycle repeats. You can see the outlines of some of the abandoned riverbeds, now positioned at fairly high altitudes. I think this erosion-based terrain makes an interesting contrast to the gravity-based terrain of 3P Hawai'i (recall the seamounts created by underwater landslides) and the tectonics-based terrain of 3P Beqaa (it was subtle, but the two mountain ranges were actually one mountain range getting ripped apart). I don't know whether anyone other than me cares about realistic terrain or can even tell the difference between this sort of thing and the fractal generator, but I think it adds a certain something.
As usual, sir, your maps are mildly amazing. Well done.
While it was a straightforward map, I liked Hawai'i terrain and gimmick. Having the option of "digging down" in the ocean to get more room, Aether or a better front is interesting; same for the optional "missile range" (which I went for). It's scary to visualize the incoming Creeper wave as a tsunami.
Khyber's corrupted Collectors were well used. The reason why I usually dislike such large maps is that they tend to repeat themselves or have uninteresting areas. But this map's clear, linear goals made it all good, and it was fun to prepare for the massive Creeper wave the Collectors would unleash upon destruction.
Also, I do appreciate well-thought terrain; throughout the map, I felt I was traversing actual mountain ranges and river beds. In retrospect, however, I wish I had not forgotten Terps existed during this map.
Now, those dreaded corrupted Beams.
I started with the normal-looking Beqaa. The extra Energy down in the Creeper lake was a nice touch. Establishing defenses wasn't too bad, but I had a hard time pushing against the combined enemy forces in the corners and didn't score as well as I could have. Those enemy Beams are evil!
Reticle went much better, though, and I felt the difficulty was balanced just right. I used a suicidal approach to the central Beam, having Cannons dying left and right while a farther Terp raised a wall in front of itself. I wish I'd tried the wall tactic sooner, though, say during Beqaa.
3P Natlan (Download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16283))
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16284)
Gameplay: tech is pretty heavily restricted; in particular, you have neither Terps nor Reactors, so every inch of territory wrested away from the creeper feels like an important victory. In addition to territory, there are also various other minor objectives you can go for: picking up bits of aether, disconnecting sections of digitalis, getting mortars into improved positions, managing to connect an ore mine, etc. (The map is less linear than my previous maps; at any given moment, there are a number of options for how to proceed.) Meanwhile, creeper and spores tend to make inroads against any areas you fail to pay attention to. So the map lends itself to very strategic, positional play. I think it's my most fun map yet. (Albeit probably the least innovative--there's almost no special scripting.) Difficulty similar to my previous maps (and playstyle somewhat reminiscent of 3P Hawai'i, insofar as you're trying to reclaim land from the sea); it took me about an hour of game time to win.
Geology: although 3P Natlan is superficially similar in appearance to 3P Hawai'i, it has very different geology. 3P Hawai'i involved a moving volcanic hotspot in the middle of a plate, creating mountains which then slid sideways into the sea. 3P Natlan is a mid-oceanic ridge caused by two continents (just barely visible along the edges of the map) pulling apart, creating an entire line of volcanoes; the mountains then don't just slide into the sea but are tectonically ripped apart. (I felt a little silly doing a ridge when they're so plentiful in the DMD, but it was a structure which I hadn't done yet and which seemed to fit the gameplay concept that I had in mind.)
ThirdParty, I intend to use a chunk of your code from Khyber for one of my own maps entitled "Skarsgard World". I'll be modifying it. If you don't respond to this I'll assumer your response will be "Yep, sure, but give plenty of credit." Thanks in advance if this is your response. If you don't want me to use your code, just say, and I won't.
Obviously my map won't be as good as yours, it's messy and badly-structured in comparison.
Update
I ended up using none of your code or images and remade all of it myself. I did, however, use your concepts and the colour of the corrupted soylent. I also added some digitalis. I've sent you a PM containing the start of my map.
Of course you can use anything you want. We'll end up all having more fun in the long run if we build off one another's ideas and scripts than if we each just go in his own direction.
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 27, 2013, 09:04:30 PM
Of course you can use anything you want. We'll end up all having more fun in the long run if we build off one another's ideas and scripts than if we each just go in his own direction.
Thanks muchly. You still get credit though,
3P Nihon (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16330))
This is a somewhat playful map. It's not particularly hard--the startup is potentially a bit rough, but once you get your base established there aren't really any major threats to it--but you're a bit cramped for space, and every time you nullify an emitter, something bad happens. So you get to experience various funny disasters that don't normally happen, and see what they do to your base. My time to win was about 40 minutes, so this is a bit shorter than my other maps.
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 28, 2013, 11:55:42 AM
...the startup is potentially a bit rough...
I found it to be impossible. No idea how I am supposed to survive for more than 5 minutes.
Quote from: eduran on November 28, 2013, 04:51:05 PM
I found it to be impossible. No idea how I am supposed to survive for more than 5 minutes.
Witchcraft.
Quote from: eduran on November 28, 2013, 04:51:05 PMQuote from: ThirdParty on November 28, 2013, 11:55:42 AM...the startup is potentially a bit rough...
I found it to be impossible. No idea how I am supposed to survive for more than 5 minutes.
It's a puzzle! I swear that it's possible. You probably just chose the wrong site for your base.
Spoiler
Don't bother trying to defend the indefensible low ground where your command node is, just build on high ground and assault the central emitter. It's easily nullified, after which you can clear its space and move your command node to there. (Depending on how well you micromanage the assault, you may end up having to put the command node in a holding pattern above the map for a few seconds. That's not the end of the world; a hovering command node's built-in reactor doesn't work, but it can still receive energy and send packets.)
I liked 3p Nihon. It took me few tried to figure how to start, but then it was pretty straightforward.
Spoiler
he only event that wasn't interesting was meteorite one. I expected that it would change terrain or something like that. Also expected to see last big piece.
Also I'm not sure, but is removing PZ from base is what supposed to happen after explosion?
Quote from: Altren on November 28, 2013, 10:28:10 PMSpoiler
Also I'm not sure, but is removing PZ from base is what supposed to happen after explosion?
Yes, that's intentional. Depending on the player's build, he might end up having to reconfigure his base afterward, which I thought would be interesting.
Yes, it was interesting.
@3P - I just downloaded Beqaa and read the opening conversation.
I'm done. :D
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 12:36:16 PM@3P - I just downloaded Beqaa and read the opening conversation.
I'm done.
Could I have a smiley to go with that comment? I can't quite tell whether you're furious or ROFLing.
I thought it was funny. :|
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 29, 2013, 04:31:57 PM
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 12:36:16 PM@3P - I just downloaded Beqaa and read the opening conversation.
I'm done.
Could I have a smiley to go with that comment? I can't quite tell whether you're furious or ROFLing.
I ROFL'd :D
:o :D
3P Racquet (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16346))
I decided to see whether I could fit an interesting map into the minimum 20x20 size. This was the result. Your CN may be landed only three times (which shouldn't be a problem if you're using a decent strategy); other than that, there is no special scripting, and I have not in any way modified costs or behaviors--everything is exactly as it appears.
This map is a lot harder than it looks, and is expected to be very puzzling. My official solution took 8:17.5, involved 10 structures of 6 different types, and combined three distinct bright ideas. (You may need to pool bright ideas with one another in order to solve it.) Hopefully I didn't miss some obvious simple solution which takes all the fun out of it.
update: Altren goaded me into making an even harder version ("3P Racquet Hard") with a shorter handle and only two landings. (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16351))
Your maps have a subtle elegance to them. Keep up working like this, you may end up with more notoriety than yum234's CW2 maps.
Agreed.
I can't work out why you'd want to reland the CN...
UPDATE:
Spoiler
Don't use Strafers. They don't work.
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 06:19:35 PMI can't work out why you'd want to reland the CN...
You wouldn't. Trust me. The solution I'm preventing with that script is very unfun. Ten minutes of doing the same stupid maneuver over and over again every thirty seconds.
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 06:19:35 PMDon't use Strafers. They don't work.
lol! Were you hoping that the plane would keep firing even after you'd bulldozed its landing pad? Worth trying, I guess, but no such luck.
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 29, 2013, 06:33:43 PM
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 06:19:35 PMSpoiler
Don't use Strafers. They don't work.
lol! Were you hoping that the plane would keep firing even after you'd bulldozed its landing pad? Worth trying, I guess, but no such luck.
Spoiler
Nope, just hoping it would clear the whole strip. It didn't. It was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in this game. And I can't think of any manoeuvre that involves removing the CN so your technique didn't block any of my strategies.
The only thing I can think of doing at the moment is build a balster then moving into the creeper whilst building another... again and again and again. Doesn't get me anywhere.
I'm going to have to give up on this for the time being, you sneaky dog. Stop making under-complicated ridiculously hard yet perfectly engineered maps(!)
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 06:41:33 PMThe only thing I can think of doing at the moment is build a balster then moving into the creeper whilst building another... again and again and again. Doesn't get me anywhere.
I wouldn't say that it got you nowhere. If you measure progress by "If I built something on the ball that wasn't a weapon, how many seconds would it take for the racquet to be completely flooded?", you're probably a few seconds further from death than you were when you loaded the map. This is a map where a few seconds sometimes make the difference between completing a building in time or not.
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 29, 2013, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: Clean0nion on November 29, 2013, 06:41:33 PMThe only thing I can think of doing at the moment is build a balster then moving into the creeper whilst building another... again and again and again. Doesn't get me anywhere.
I wouldn't say that it got you nowhere. If you measure progress by "If I built something on the ball that wasn't a weapon, how many seconds would it take for the racquet to be completely flooded?", you're probably a few seconds further from death than you were when you loaded the map. This is a map where a few seconds sometimes make the difference between completing a building in time or not.
Spoiler
Shields, I'm guessing you refer to. I completely forgot about disabling things. Time to get off SW3 and back onto Racquet.
UPDATE: Nope, still gets me nowhere! Better try something else.
UPPERDATE: Nope, I'm just going to give up on this. The rage of quit bubbles upwards.
I think I fun solution, that was prevented by landing/getting up, but it wouldn't take take minute (at least it doesnt looks so).
Spoiler
Mortar, then build and start loading guppy, while mortar is alive (also shoot from time to time, as unfrequent as possible). When mortar is going to die return to orbit, heal mortar. Then repeat loading guppy. After all this build nullifier. Took me only two extra landings (5 total if I counted properly) and about 6:30 minutes of game time.
Still trying to find correct solution.
Oh, I did it. Not perfect one, since did few misclicks, but still valid.
Spoiler
Used 5 CN, Nullifier and three more structures to win this. Even thought it is spoiler I don't want to spoil too much ;)
I think I'll replay it to try for more accurate score. If it is same as yours then I guess it is "correct" solution to your puzzle.
EDIT: Nope, my score is much better :P
EDIT2: My solution is definetly "wrong", since I used only
Spoiler
three different structures, one copy of each (excluding Nullifier and CN)
sent PM with my solution, hope this can be fixed, because I want to get all fun from this map :)
Quote from: Altren on November 29, 2013, 10:19:39 PMI think I [found the] solution, that was prevented by landing/getting up
Yes, that's the solution I was trying to block.
Quote from: Altren on November 29, 2013, 10:22:13 PMOh, I did it. [...] Nope, my score is much better :P
Let's see, you scored 5:40.4... (ThirdParty experiments...) Okay, I just scored 5:39.8, so I think I know what you did. (And then I got your message, and it is indeed what you did.) The last half or so is basically identical to my original solution; you just found a better way to do the first part.
Quote from: Altren on November 29, 2013, 10:22:13 PMhope this can be fixed, because I want to get all fun from this map :)
I'm not going to "fix" the original map, but I've attached a harder version that will force you to find an alternate solution. (In this version, you get one fewer CN landing, and the racquet handle is shorter.)
I made no effort to optimize my solution to it, so you should be able to easily beat my time of 13:22.9. Edit: I decided the level was fun enough to be worth replaying; my new time is 10:39.1.
Played your last three.
I think that for me, Natlan didn't exactly perform as advertised. Even without Reactors, I never had Energy problems, and instead of small strategic gains, I pretty much just brought a huge force from one target to the next, starting with the Nest and never really slowing down. But I suppose it's because I'm used to counting on Collectors for Energy (and I'm pretty fast in general).
Nihon slightly scared me at first: I tend to approach maps strategically, making a general plan and putting it into action as efficiently as I can. But I managed to put that mindset aside and just enjoy the map and its unpleasant surprises, which definitely are surprising and unpleasant.
As for Racquet... aw, come on! You'd think the brutal restrictions on building space would make the solution easy to find, but one hour later, I'm stuck. I've tried most combinations of relevant weapons, sending them to their doom one after another or keeping them alive by temporarily bringing the CN back up. I tried sneaking in a Terp or Guppy, but they can't be ready fast enough (although the Terp comes so close!). It's trivial to keep the Creeper down, but even a Mortar-backed Blaster can't survive on the handle! And even if it could, well, I have no idea what good it would do me.
So yeah, I'll be joining Clean0nion in giving up for a while.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 02:55:38 AMI think that for me, Natlan didn't exactly perform as advertised. Even without Reactors, I never had Energy problems, and instead of small strategic gains, I pretty much just brought a huge force from one target to the next, starting with the Nest and never really slowing down. But I suppose it's because I'm used to counting on Collectors for Energy (and I'm pretty fast in general).
Yeah, I'm a pretty slow player. A map that's balanced for me is probably going to be too easy for the real experts.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 02:55:38 AMAs for Racquet... aw, come on! You'd think the brutal restrictions on building space would make the solution easy to find, but one hour later, I'm stuck.
Yes, I'm quite happy with how the map turned out. You'd think that a 20x20 map wouldn't have room for much strategy, but it does.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 02:55:38 AMI've tried most combinations of relevant weapons, sending them to their doom one after another or keeping them alive by temporarily bringing the CN back up. I tried sneaking in a Terp or Guppy, but they can't be ready fast enough (although the Terp comes so close!).
Sounds like you're pretty close.
"Fast enough" is relative to what you're trying to accomplish with the Terp and the Guppy. I suspect that you're trying to deliver knockout punches with them, when what you ought to be doing is trying to make small, incremental gains.
Quote from: ThirdParty on November 30, 2013, 10:39:23 AM"Fast enough" is relative to what you're trying to accomplish with the Terp and the Guppy. I suspect that you're trying to deliver knockout punches with them, when what you ought to be doing is trying to make small, incremental gains.
Spoiler
(but not too many spoilers)
I kind of started from my goal and worked backwards. I thought "if I can make a Guppy, I win", but to do that, I needed a weapon to keep the Creeper down. A Mortar can't survive right next to the Creeper (at least not without tons of CN return/reland), so I thought a Cannon might. But I tried it, and it couldn't keep up, being too close.
But if I could Terp down a single square at the bottom of the handle, maybe the Cannon could land far enough from the Emitter and keep it down. But the Terp would complete way too late. So I tried sending a Mortar instead, but regardless of my timings, the exact amounts of shots it'd fire and other considerations, the Terp would be just too late.
And then you changed the map, invalidating what I was trying to do.
I've deliberately left out a few details that might be important.
... and rereading myself, I think I just had a new idea. But if I don't post again soon, it means it didn't pan out and I quit again.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 09:58:45 PMAnd then you changed the map, invalidating what I was trying to do.
:o My intention was to
not have changed the map. The version I initially uploaded remains the official
3P Racquet, which continues to be linked to on the front page of this thread. I uploaded an alternate
3P Racquet Hard for Altren because he blew through the original so easily and asked for more.
I definitely recommend playing the original version, not the hard version, especially if you're struggling. In the original version, there are several different strategies that will work, and room for quite a lot of error along the way. In the hard version, there's only one option (as far as I know) and it takes a lot of precision. The original is likely to be more fun for everyone except hardcore puzzle solvers.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 09:58:45 PMI kind of started from my goal and worked backwards.
Sounds like a potentially useful way to think.
It also sounds like you've at least figured out what progress would look like. Minor spoiler describing what I think you already know:
Spoiler
At the start of the map, there's no creeper at all. So keeping creeper down isn't "progress" toward victory. The only way a later position can be an improvement over the starting position is if (1) the player has engaged in useful terraforming, or (2) the player has an extra unit alive.
Quote from: Ceraus on November 30, 2013, 09:58:45 PMQuote from: ThirdParty on November 30, 2013, 10:39:23 AM"Fast enough" is relative to what you're trying to accomplish with the Terp and the Guppy. I suspect that you're trying to deliver knockout punches with them, when what you ought to be doing is trying to make small, incremental gains.
Spoiler
if I could Terp down a single square at the bottom of the handle...
Yeah, that's what I figured you were probably trying to do with the Terp. Good long-range goal. Probably not a viable first move.
I finally finished Racquet Hard. Would've done this a two days ago, but I didn't knew that
Spoiler
Guppy can launch not only when it is fully loaded, but also when Cargo + Pad total is 120 or more. I tried to give it more than 120, but was only trying to launch is second time after fully using first Cargo.
Awesome map. Thank you.
I used only 5 different structure types, not 6 as you told in your initial post. I broke my head trying to find that 6th structure, but now I guess you counted CN, while I didn't.
Quote from: Altren on December 02, 2013, 07:32:21 PMI finally finished Racquet Hard. Would've done this a two days ago, but I didn't knew thatSpoiler
Guppy can launch not only when it is fully loaded, but also when Cargo + Pad total is 120 or more. I tried to give it more than 120, but was only trying to launch is second time after fully using first Cargo.
Interesting. I didn't know that either, though I guess it makes sense.
You must be using a different strategy than I am. My solution begins with...
Spoiler
...Using a Terp to build pits along the south and east edges of the paddle, so that a Guppy can build things in the northwest part of the paddle even after the southeast part has been overrun.
Quote from: Altren on December 02, 2013, 07:32:21 PMAwesome map. Thank you.
Well, at least one person enjoyed it. I'm sad that everyone else gave up.
Heck, of the 33 people who downloaded
3P Nihon, only 2 submitted scores--and I thought that it was an easy map. I think I'll go back to making maps that are winnable using more conventional strategies.
Quote from: ThirdParty on December 02, 2013, 08:28:57 PMInteresting. I didn't know that either, though I guess it makes sense.
You didn't? Than means that you used some different way to finish map.
Quote from: ThirdParty on December 02, 2013, 08:28:57 PMYou must be using a different strategy than I am. My solution begins with...Spoiler
...Using a Terp to build pits along the south and east edges of the paddle, so that a Guppy can build things in the northwest part of the paddle even after the southeast part has been overrun.
Same here. Ending seems to be different.
Spoiler
I guess you know why would I need extra 15 energy in Guppy. Was able to get 17 with super perfect timing, even used 'N' hotkey during pause. Would you tell me what was your way? Here in spoiler or in PM.
Quote from: ThirdParty on December 02, 2013, 08:28:57 PMWell, at least one person enjoyed it. I'm sad that everyone else gave up.
Well, it's a strategy game, not puzzle game, so not many love puzzles, and do not expect them especially from one who made so many good strategy maps.
Quote from: ThirdParty on December 02, 2013, 08:28:57 PMHeck, of the 33 people who downloaded 3P Nihon, only 2 submitted scores--and I thought that it was an easy map. I think I'll go back to making maps that are winnable using more conventional strategies.
Nihon is nice and interesting, but may be with one of your surprises in it (I'm sure you know which one) made people rage quit this map and not finish it when end is so close.
Quote from: Altren on December 02, 2013, 08:49:31 PMQuote from: ThirdParty on December 02, 2013, 08:28:57 PMYou must be using a different strategy than I am.
Ending seems to be different. ... Would you tell me what was your way?
Here's what my sadly-inefficient solution to
3P Racquet Hard was:
Spoiler
(Before each step, send a mortar to die on the handle in order to reset the creeper.)
1. Build a Terp and use it to lower the right and south edges of the paddle.
2. Build a Guppy and use it to build a Cannon and a Terp, and use the Terp to raise a two-tile-wide height-6 wall between the emitter and the paddle.
3. Build a Terp and use it to finish raising the wall to height 10.
4. Build a Guppy and use it to build a Nullifer.
What's
your strategy? After reading your spoilers I
thought I knew what you were doing, but when I tried it I ended up with a time of 5:57. That's a pretty big discrepancy from your time of 7:38, so maybe I misunderstood somehow. :)
First of all I wasn't playing for perfect score. Just replayed map and got slightly better result - 6:37, probably can cut 20-30 more seconds, but too lazy to do that. So what I did was:
Spoiler
0. Mortar.
1. Same Terp.
2. Mortar.
3. Guppy.
4. Right before Mortar going to die remove CN and send Mortar as far as possible. (shoot with Mortar as few as possible)
5. Wait until Mortar is healed to 75% (would land with almost 100%).
6. Send Mortar to die, place CN back.
7. Send Guppy to "die".
8. Remove CN When Guppy have 120 in Cargo + 12-15 in Pad energy.
9. Start building Canon in top-left corner, return Guppy to get energy remaining in pad.
10. Finish Canon and build Nullifier.
Ah. Yeah, that's what I thought you were doing, except I skipped steps 4-6.
Finally! On my
third distinct attempt, I finally got through
Racquet (hard). And it's
almost exactly the same method as Altren.
Spoiler
I already knew a Guppy would end the mission, and I already intended to use the extra-supply pad trick, that I sometimes use to concentrate Bomber.. bombings.
My second attempt was all about trying to terraform the handle as a first step, which I almost made work. A Cannon right against the Emitter could probably cap it, I thought, but the Cannon would stupidly fire left instead of directly at the Emitter, leading to its death. So I tried Terp'ing up the square it was firing at. My best timing was by recalling the CN and sending the Mortar far away; on the CN's return, it would stay alive long enough for the Terp to finish. In fact, I got the Terp to fire, but not long enough, and I couldn't optimize any more.
The mission remained in my mind for a few days, and I finally got that if the handle didn't work, maybe the solution was in the head. And I remembered that making a Guppy outright almost worked (after some Mortar control, anyway).
So I went
1. build Mortar
2. send Mortar to die, build Terp
3. terraform head edges down
3. kill Terp, build Mortar
3. send Mortar to almost die, start Guppy
4. recall CN, save Mortar, send it up-left
5. when CN ready, send Mortar to die, finish Guppy
6. send Guppy away, put 9 extra supply in pad
7. recall CN, start Cannon up-left
8. refill Guppy, finish Cannon, cut its resupply at 100 remaining in Guppy, build Nullifier
I think the only real difference with Altren is that I don't wait for my survivor-Mortar to heal, which I believe saves some time.
How the heck is 5:57 possible? I was pretty optimized there.
As for
Nihon, my guess is the same as Altren's: at least 2 or 3 times throughout the mission, the "surprises" lead to results that, in a regular mission, would immediately prompt a restart (or a reload). But since those situations are entirely unavoidable, people give up in desperation.
Me? I liked it, it was
exhilarating.
As from what I've read about it I think i would like nihon, but regardless of what I try I can't survive the first 2 minutes...
My best try was to land the CN at the mid-bottom of the map and defending myself with blasters while building as many collectors as possible, but I need at least 6 blasters if not more to defend myself which I can't handle with the limited energy I have.
Quote from: Annonymus on December 04, 2013, 08:58:27 AMAs from what I've read about it I think i would like nihon, but regardless of what I try I can't survive the first 2 minutes.
Oh, right, there is that. Here's how you start
3P Nihon:
Spoiler
Land in the mid-bottom. Don't attempt to defend, just immediately launch an assault against the central emitter. After it's nullified, move your CN to the power zone.
3P Tharsis (download (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14455.0;attach=16443))
This map introduces the Hemishield, a rotating shield that protects up to half of an enemy unit from nullification. To defeat it, you have to attack the unit from multiple directions at once. I know my recent maps have been too hard, so I tried to be more gentle this time (though the start-up is a bit challenging, as usual); the map should appeal to people who liked 3P Khyber.
Geology: this one's a mostly-airless world, so the landscape is dotted with meteor craters. However, the major terrain features--all of the mountain peaks, as well as the high plateau on the left--is due to a very old volcanic hotspot which, over countless eons, has erupted many times in this vicinity. There's also an interesting network of cracks in the lower left, produced by the violence of eruptions and impacts, and retained due to the lack of erosion.
Quote from: ThirdParty on December 06, 2013, 06:50:33 PM
Geology: this one's a mostly-airless world, so the landscape is dotted with meteor craters. However, the major terrain features--all of the mountain peaks, as well as the high plateau on the left--is due to a very old volcanic hotspot which, over countless eons, has erupted many times in this vicinity. There's also an interesting network of cracks in the lower left, produced by the violence of eruptions and impacts, and retained due to the lack of erosion.
You're always excellent with your geologistic detail. Makes your maps look more realsitic.
Quote from: ThirdParty on October 22, 2013, 06:41:45 PM
Quote from: teknotiss on October 22, 2013, 03:17:41 PMlove this map. good work dude, i love the "sea of creeper" effect/script especially (i'll no doubt be shamelessly stealing that one ;)).
now you just have to do a world map :D
(or perhaps i should, then i have a reason to steal the script, right?)
Yeah, go for it.
Here's the core of the ocean script, in case anyone wants to use it without reinventing the wheel:
# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:4.5
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(GetWall(i j) neq0)
SetWall(i j 0)
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loop
This is awsome....
Is there any way this can be changed to use the code so it uses digitalis as the marker for the edge of the map.... I'm already using walls.
And how do I change the level it tries to keep the creep at?
I'm making a few maps one is WAY deep in the creep and the whole map should be submurged if given the chance to do it and the other should say only fill up to 6~8 high with creep....
I would just ask for a code to make it come from the edges but half the map ideas I have for this it will come from all derections.... there are some that there is 'land' that goes off the screen/edge so I wouldn't want creep flowing from there.
Quote from: Azraile on May 14, 2014, 08:18:28 PMIs there any way this can be changed to use the code so it uses digitalis as the marker for the edge of the map.... I'm already using walls.
If you replace "GetWall" with "GetDigitalisGrowth" and "SetWall" with "SetDigitalisGrowth", that ought to do the trick.
QuoteAnd how do I change the level it tries to keep the creep at?
Set the "currentTide" variable to whatever you want the new level to be.
QuoteI would just ask for a code to make it come from the edges but half the map ideas I have for this it will come from all derections.... there are some that there is 'land' that goes off the screen/edge so I wouldn't want creep flowing from there.
Since it simulates an off-screen ocean of creeper, it should be smart enough not to flood land even if the land is on the edge.
To make the creeper come from the edges without needing to mark them with anything, replace the "if(GetWall(i j) neq0)" line with "if(i eq0 or(j eq0) or(i eq(MapWidth sub(1))) or(j eq(MapHeight sub(1))))" and take out the "SetWall(i j 0)" line.
If I set it to flow from the edges of the screen and there is land above the 'water' level I have set, will it flow from that spot or will it see there is land there and not produce anything?
Quote from: Azraile on May 14, 2014, 08:49:24 PMIf I set it to flow from the edges of the screen and there is land above the 'water' level I have set, will it flow from that spot or will it see there is land there and not produce anything?
It will see that there is land there and not produce anything. (Unless, of course, the player decides to terraform the land down below sea level.)
However, if there is creeper or anticreeper on the land, it will drain off into the ocean that is assumed to be beyond the edge.
oh that's fine, I would do that anyway if it was land... there would be empty land to flow off into
sorry to ask so many questions....
but if it's say set for 15..... and there is level 10 land at one place and level 5 land at another... will more creep flow from the 5 than the 10?
Quote from: Azraile on May 14, 2014, 09:23:50 PMif it's say set for 15..... and there is level 10 land at one place and level 5 land at another... will more creep flow from the 5 than the 10?
Yes.
AWSOME
lol
if you look in the corrupted unit threat you can see I have some ambitious map ideas... hopefully I can get them all up and running
# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:15
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(i eq0 or(j eq0)
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loop
IS that right?
and dose this:
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
flood the map at the start?
most the maps I'll want that but one I won't...
Quote from: Azraile on May 14, 2014, 09:34:32 PM
# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:15
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(i eq0 or(j eq0)
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loopIS that right?
No. You want:
# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:15
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(i eq0 or(j eq0) or(i eq(MapWidth sub(1))) or(j eq(MapHeight sub(1))))
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loopQuoteand dose this:
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
loop
endonce
flood the map at the start?
Only the first four lines of that. (The comment, the if statement, the SetCreeper statement, and the endif.) Leave the "loop"s and "endonce" alone.
LOL oh you ment the whole thing not this or that XD
oh well
this code will help a lot thanks ^.^
I can go without the other codes and the corrupted units (though I REALY want them lol)
.... this can go anywhere on the map right?
ok I added the code but it's not forming at the bottom of the map or the sides near the bottom x.x
Have you tested the script on 252x252 maps before?
If the map is too large, the script will be stopped when it reaches the limit of opcodes. If you still can optimize the script or add '1 Delay' somewhere in the loop.
I don't know enough about the scrip stuff to fix something like that, I'll see if the 1 dillay works though
where would the 1 delay go?
Added an extra line of code to the script in the quote to make it wait one frame halfway, note that this makes it look worse but it hopefully fixes your problem. I didn't test it.
Quote from: ThirdParty on May 14, 2014, 09:43:24 PM
No. You want:# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:15
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(i eq0 or(j eq0) or(i eq(MapWidth sub(1))) or(j eq(MapHeight sub(1))))
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
if(I floor(MapHeight 2 div) eq) 1 Delay endif
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loop
nope still only fills down to about 100 out of 256 on the map x.x
Only to about 100? That fix was only for if it got past ~130. Added 2 more wait spots, that should work better, but looks even worse :P
Quote from: ThirdParty on May 14, 2014, 09:43:24 PM
No. You want:# Ocean.crpl
# Created by: ThirdParty
# Created on: 10/15/2013
# ------------------------------------------
$currentTide:15
once
CreateList ->edgeListX
CreateList ->edgeListY
do(MapHeight 0)
do(MapWidth 0)
# The edges of the map have been marked with walls.
# Note that the edge list must be built in the final version, it can't be stored in advance.
if(i eq0 or(j eq0) or(i eq(MapWidth sub(1))) or(j eq(MapHeight sub(1))))
AppendToList(<-edgeListX i) AppendToList(<-edgeListY j)
endif
# All low-lying areas should begin the game flooded.
if(not(GetVoid(i j)))
SetCreeper(i j max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(i j)) 0))
endif
loop
if(I floor(MapHeight 2 div) eq I floor(MapHeight 4 div) eq or I floor(MapHeight 4 div 3 mul) eq or) 1 Delay endif
loop
endonce
# Seepage to/from edges. Note that this needs to be done every frame or we get annoying flickering.
do(GetListCount(<-edgeListX) 0)
GetListElement(<-edgeListX i) ->tX
GetListElement(<-edgeListY i) ->tY
SetCreeper(
<-tX <-tY
add(
mul(GetCreeper(<-tX <-tY) 0.96)
mul(max(sub(<-currentTide GetTerrain(<-tX <-tY)) 0) 0.04)
)
)
loop
btw, 2000 posts!
woot...
and looks don't mater if it works.
AWSOME it works... it makes some 'waves' of sorts but they fade away quickly eugh
Quote from: Azraile on May 20, 2014, 03:52:20 PM
AWSOME it works... it makes some 'waves' of sorts but they fade away quickly eugh
Right. There's a limit to how many CRPL opcodes the game engine will run each frame. It cuts you off when you pass that, which caused your script to simply stop. The "1 delay" command puts off the rest of the script until the next game frame, when your limit is reset. So yes, it will look like waves. If your loops are that big and there's no way to optimize them, then the wave effect with the delay is the only workaround.
That's in there to keep a bad CRPL core from locking up the entire game engine and making the game freeze/crash.
Of course, you could also divide up the operations between multiple cores so that none of them go over the limit, but that has a tendency to be difficult to get to work and/or cause excessive lag.