So if you've gotten to Mistet, you know about this weapon and have probably tried to use it. I'm still trying to figure out the best tactics for this thing. The only way I can see it being useful is in a scenario where you can suck in enough Creeper to make it invert into AC. The question then becomes...how much Creeper does that take?
How do others use this weapon? I guess you could try to use it make a nice big target for the Berthas, but I don't know that even that would be all that helpful...
I find the singularity weapon/Bertha combo to be fairly effective on some maps.
Quote from: steelwing on October 19, 2013, 01:04:51 PM
So if you've gotten to Mistet, you know about this weapon and have probably tried to use it. I'm still trying to figure out the best tactics for this thing. The only way I can see it being useful is in a scenario where you can suck in enough Creeper to make it invert into AC. The question then becomes...how much Creeper does that take?
How do others use this weapon? I guess you could try to use it make a nice big target for the Berthas, but I don't know that even that would be all that helpful...
generally when the Flip effect happens the Singularity is pulling so much C in it annhiliates the AC, useful but not a big flood of AC (unless you get amazingly lucky on amount of C vs time of Singularity).
but it does have uses, as assmussen says in combo with a bertha (or 10 ;D) it's great for clearing areas of C and eliminating it, and i have used it to pull ac dropped by bombers under the Air Exclusion Zone area of effect to assist my frontline.
you can also, when you have a lot of Aether and AC, use it to store excess AC near the battle line to be released as a flood when the time is right, shields can direct it to the fight. there must be other uses too, but it tends to have subtle or supporting effects, it's not a battle winner alone... usually ::)
Interesting. I had not yet thought of the possibility of shields and singularities working together. I wonder if there are possibilities for a quick one-shot defense against spore drops.
I like to set the singularity slightly off center from an emitter, which will clear most of the creeper on one side of the emitter, so I can put down a nullifier.
On DMD maps, I've also used it to gather a lot of creeper in one place and threw a conversion bomb down on it. Once the singularity is gone, the massive tower of AC will clear a lot of creeper around it.
A variation is to create a mound of creeper with the singularity and drop a Mass Driver on top of it - that not only wipes out the creeper like a Bertha shot (without the long build/arm cycle, sometimes Mass AoO's are just lying around) but also creates a useful sink-hole/diverter for the following creeper.
Of course this is all Aether dependent - and you may find it easiest to liberate Aether from resource packs (where available).
Quote from: MatrixQ on October 19, 2013, 06:12:48 PM
I like to set the singularity slightly off center from an emitter, which will clear most of the creeper on one side of the emitter, so I can put down a nullifier.
I had one map on the go that had so much creeper being generated by a mass of emitters that this was the only way I could make headway - it was late in the game by that stage and I had massive quantities of Aether being generated so I just laid down singularity after singularity to keep the creeper drawn back so I could get close enough with a nullifier.
Shields and weapons couldn't cope with the massive quantity of creeper on their own so the singularity was a godsend.
I personally think the singularity weapon is the most underrated tool in the game. As tek put it, it really is amazing at support.
I'll use it in combination with 3 bertha's, take each one, shoot in like a triangle around my target, then use the singularity where the creeper is coming from. Then 2 guppys to build a nullifier and take my target out. Need about 40 seconds(minimum) of singularity for that to work.
Quote from: Spencergray24 on October 20, 2013, 11:56:20 AM
I'll use it in combination with 3 bertha's, take each one, shoot in like a triangle around my target, then use the singularity where the creeper is coming from.
Good idea - but let me give you a tip.
I almost never build a Bertha unless there's a PZ to put it on - a Bertha on a PZ fires a triple shot and requires half the ammo of a regular Bertha to fire a shot, which means it has twice the fire rate, and as it fires a triple shot, it lands six shots in the time it takes one regular Bertha to fire one shot. And you only have to build one Bertha, not three!
Quote from: Cavemaniac on October 21, 2013, 04:38:14 AM
Quote from: Spencergray24 on October 20, 2013, 11:56:20 AM
I'll use it in combination with 3 bertha's, take each one, shoot in like a triangle around my target, then use the singularity where the creeper is coming from.
Good idea - but let me give you a tip.
I almost never build a Bertha unless there's a PZ to put it on - a Bertha on a PZ fires a triple shot and requires half the ammo of a regular Bertha to fire a shot, which means it has twice the fire rate, and as it fires a triple shot, it lands six shots in the time it takes one regular Bertha to fire one shot. And you only have to build one Bertha, not three!
have to disagree a little with Cave here, PZ Bertha's are a cool bonus, but regular Berthas are still awesome, for a 250 to build and 150 per shot you get total kill of all normal to heavy creeper densities, and on small tormented maps a Bertha can give the edge needed to push forwards.
i love Bertha! 8)
Quote from: teknotiss on October 21, 2013, 10:26:11 AM
Quote from: Cavemaniac on October 21, 2013, 04:38:14 AM
Quote from: Spencergray24 on October 20, 2013, 11:56:20 AM
I'll use it in combination with 3 bertha's, take each one, shoot in like a triangle around my target, then use the singularity where the creeper is coming from.
Good idea - but let me give you a tip.
I almost never build a Bertha unless there's a PZ to put it on - a Bertha on a PZ fires a triple shot and requires half the ammo of a regular Bertha to fire a shot, which means it has twice the fire rate, and as it fires a triple shot, it lands six shots in the time it takes one regular Bertha to fire one shot. And you only have to build one Bertha, not three!
have to disagree a little with Cave here, PZ Bertha's are a cool bonus, but regular Berthas are still awesome, for a 250 to build and 150 per shot you get total kill of all normal to heavy creeper densities, and on small tormented maps a Bertha can give the edge needed to push forwards.
i love Bertha! 8)
Agreed. Berthas are awesome. 8)
I won't build a non PZ Bertha until I can sustain several of them at once. Usually six at least. One by itself isn't particularly useful. A constant barrage with timed delays between shots can really thin out an inhibitor enough to land a shield and a few guppies on and take it out quick. That's my general strategy for low-to-mid-intensity inhibitor maps. Access to PZs make it lots easier and faster.
Either way, Singularities can be a good thing, but that wastes a lot of aether. If the Creeper is too deep it won't take enough out to do anything meaningful. There have been some maps where I postpone using aether for upgrades to create a larger vortex (several holes) around the inhibitor or a nasty emitter to land some guppies near.
Sorry for being stupid, but how does the singularity work?
Sometimes I can click it, and sometimes I can't (not enough aether maybe?). Also, I don't know how much time the singularity will exist. Is there a setting, or should I press a stop button or something?
Also, I don't understand what happens. The creeper gets sucked away into 'nothingness'? Doesn't a Bertha also kill all creeper to the bottom on the fired upon spot?
Sorry if this is explained somewhere else, but is there a manual for this game?
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 22, 2013, 05:20:46 AM
Sorry for being stupid, but how does the singularity work?
Sometimes I can click it, and sometimes I can't (not enough aether maybe?). Also, I don't know how much time the singularity will exist. Is there a setting, or should I press a stop button or something?
Also, I don't understand what happens. The creeper gets sucked away into 'nothingness'? Doesn't a Bertha also kill all creeper to the bottom on the fired upon spot?
Sorry if this is explained somewhere else, but is there a manual for this game?
Spoiler
The Singularity requires a minimum of 100 Aether and seems to last 1 sec for every 10 Aether you put in. I think.
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 22, 2013, 05:20:46 AM
Sorry for being stupid, but how does the singularity work?
Sometimes I can click it, and sometimes I can't (not enough aether maybe?). Also, I don't know how much time the singularity will exist. Is there a setting, or should I press a stop button or something?
Also, I don't understand what happens. The creeper gets sucked away into 'nothingness'? Doesn't a Bertha also kill all creeper to the bottom on the fired upon spot?
Sorry if this is explained somewhere else, but is there a manual for this game?
as the prev user stated 100 aether minimum, 10 aether per second.
how it works is once you target and fire a singularity it gathers C and AC to that point for the duration of the aether expended. the C or AC can undergo the Flip effect (when either C or AC gets past 2147M density it converts to the other state), but this just acts to reduce the C or AC not eliminate it while the singularity is in action.
hope that helps 8)
What is the 2147 M density per cell?
All I know is that 500 on the UI bar means any more will spill into the void. It has no K or M on it.
Quote from: 4xC on October 23, 2013, 08:18:30 AM
What is the 2147 M density per cell?
All I know is that 500 on the UI bar means any more will spill into the void. It has no K or M on it.
K and M were used in CW2. The good thing is that in CW2 the creeper flips at 2147M and in CW3 at 2147. (the amount of creeper listed in CW3 is divided by 1000000, which is 1 terrain level)
Then how can you make the conversion with the Singer at 2147 if 500 is the limit for void blockage?
Quote from: 4xC on October 23, 2013, 12:11:28 PM
Then how can you make the conversion with the Singer at 2147 if 500 is the limit for void blockage?
The height of the creeper can go above 500. Think of the void as 500 high terrain that you can shoot through.
when i've been mousing over the center of the C in the S the numbers reach 214X and then AC for a moment, then C is climbing again.
i'm not sure, but i think V kept the C flip effect the same as CW2
Quote from: MatrixQ on October 19, 2013, 06:12:48 PM
I like to set the singularity slightly off center from an emitter, which will clear most of the creeper on one side of the emitter, so I can put down a nullifier.
Check out the DMD map Blue vs Light Blue 2 for a really good reason to use the singularity!
I did just that, Cavemaniac; but it just would not flip no matter what I did. I made the Forge sing several times and the last time was a 60 second cresendo that just did not convert the creeper because the black hole's heart practically stopped absorbing creeper at around 1800 even though the flip is 2147. At which point anymore would give the Forge a sore throat due to lack of upgradesand usefulness of its singer. (I think I will always make singing references everytime I refer to the singularity weapon.)
And someone please explain how it flipped at that density in CW2.
Quote from: 4xC on October 25, 2013, 12:05:46 PM
And someone please explain how it flipped at that density in CW2.
the C and Ac values are held in a range from -2,147,000,000 to 0 to +2,147,000,000
when the range is exceeded in either direction the flip effect happens
at least that's CW2 and appears to me to be true for CW3, but because the play dynamic is top down the effect is differently applied.
for CW3 make a test map, 5 200 strength emitters at 3 frames per emission. place them apart from each other because there could be a clipping effect close to emitters (CW2 also has this, a 100 emitter has a max in it's area of 999k i think)
put a void lined safe zone with a load of aether and power packs, give yourself a forge.
wait til there is a couple of hundred creeper density in the center of the emitters, if you have a lot of aether packs you'll be rocking a 1000+ aether, fire the weapon and wait til it nears 2147 C then "n" frame by frame and you will see AC for a moment in the center of the singularity
For a terrifying effect, put the emitters in the void...
Quote from: 4xC on October 25, 2013, 12:05:46 PM
I did just that, Cavemaniac; but it just would not flip no matter what I did. I made the Forge sing several times and the last time was a 60 second cresendo that just did not convert the creeper because the black hole's heart practically stopped absorbing creeper at around 1800 even though the flip is 2147. At which point anymore would give the Forge a sore throat due to lack of upgradesand usefulness of its singer. (I think I will always make singing references everytime I refer to the singularity weapon.)
And someone please explain how it flipped at that density in CW2.
t
Ah.
Sorry dude.
I meant that the singularity could be used to pull back the creeper so you could safely deploy a nullifier.
Quote from: Grauniad on October 25, 2013, 02:47:08 PM
For a terrifying effect, put the emitters in the void...
really?
hmm off to try it now.... i'll report back later :)
I tried that in editor. And nothing extraordinary it seems has happened except that there was no way to kill it.
well you need to put some terrain next to the void emitter to see whats happening
here's a couple of pics from a test i ran
on void it's at 190+ C
on the neighbouring terrain it's up over 600+C
so the void emitter is acting as if it's on a high terrain but not on the void itself
Quote from: teknotiss on October 26, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
well you need to put some terrain next to the void emitter to see whats happening
here's a couple of pics from a test i ran
on void it's at 190+ C
on the neighbouring terrain it's up over 600+C
so the void emitter is acting as if it's on a high terrain but not on the void itself
Now you know why Virgil downscaled the void from 2,000 to 500. It would cause overflow conditions when it hit terrain...
Quote from: Grauniad on October 26, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Quote from: teknotiss on October 26, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
well you need to put some terrain next to the void emitter to see whats happening
here's a couple of pics from a test i ran
on void it's at 190+ C
on the neighbouring terrain it's up over 600+C
so the void emitter is acting as if it's on a high terrain but not on the void itself
Now you know why Virgil downscaled the void from 2,000 to 500. It would cause overflow conditions when it hit terrain...
quite, that must have been messy ::)
Quote from: steelwing on October 19, 2013, 01:04:51 PM
So if you've gotten to Mistet,
Where is Mistet? I can't find it!
Mistet is an Arc Eternal mission, located in the Frykt system.
Quote from: Michionlion on December 06, 2013, 08:43:14 AM
Mistet is an Arc Eternal mission, located in the Frykt system.
Thank you :)
That forge weapon,I never use. ;D
I like to use it in levels with an overabundance of totems, so there's plenty of energy for it. Been making some DMD maps like that :D
The Forge's Singularity Weapon is awesome...
Saved me in a map once......
:o
I used the singularity weapon essentially by accident on Frykt->Vapen. Took me 3 or 4 tries to get a base established, and then when I had one I was busy trying and failing to push out and forgot about the forge. When I looked back I had >1000 Aether and said heck, let's try this. Dropped a singularity near the Inhibitor without knowing how it worked, used up more Aether than I expected, went "oh crap", then "wait, maybe I can salvage this". It turns out that a couple minutes is long enough to build a Guppy from scratch, fly it over there and have it build and arm a nullifier, at which point everything dies and I spend a few minutes getting the weird collector-things powered on in order to find out how I was supposed to beat the level.