Knuckle Cracker

The title and game names are directed to me as a reminder to 'chill'.

A few useful links:
All Tournaments (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=7410.0)
Code Map Scoreboard (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld2/viewscores.php)
Tournament Score Tool (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=7477.0)

Chill Out, Bro:




   
   
   
   
   
   

Map Name:	Size:	Complexity:
It's only a game	Small	Low
Lighten up!	Small	Medium
Give it a rest!	Medium	Medium
Wrapped around the axle.	Large	High
Hit the road Jack	Large	Low

Miz from IA gets first blood.

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	MizInIA	10186	11775	10953	8287	10731	51932	88:42
2	inept_celt	11517	11910	11320		11186	45933
3	Helper	11748	12613				24361
4	Iqbal	11680	12230				23910
5	dt42	11754					11754
6	Gu250	11599					11599

Scores recorded at 2013-02-25 20:55:48 forum time.

Thanks for giving us an easy week Helper. I had fun with those! I am quite sure my scores will get SMOKED by the good players. I will have to revisit them and try to improve on my times. ;D

Quote from: MizInIA on February 25, 2013, 06:59:48 PM
I am quite sure my scores will get SMOKED by the good players. ;D

That may be true, but the chart above will is proof of your performance so far.

It is now part of your permanent record. (Recalling fond...or not so fond...memories of high school.)
Bookmark it and enjoy looking at it from time to time.

Well done!
H

Quote from: Helper on February 25, 2013, 07:03:40 PM

That may be true, but the chart above will is proof of your performance so far.

It is now part of your permanent record. (Recalling fond...or not so fond...memories of high school.)
Bookmark it and enjoy looking at it from time to time.

Well done!
H

all that is proof of is I was home this afternoon with a sick kid laying on the couch and around 88 minutes of free time. :)

@MizInIA - I was just glad you were here to kick this thing into gear.

Tuesday - 12 Players, 43 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
2	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
3	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
4	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
5	mopa42	11730	12649	12180	10706		47265
6	Helper	11748	12810	12277			36835
7	Lord_Farin	11812	12634	12226			36672
8	dt42	11754	12505	12102			36361
9	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242			33728
10	Ronini	11559		11182	7847		30588
11	Iqbal	11680	12230				23910
12	Dagobert			11851	9204		21055

Scores recorded at 2013-02-26 20:03:33 forum time.

Wholy crap. half my time. I bet it gets even lower. :) I just can't get myself to play going frame by frame and paused the whole time.

The frame by frame thing is mostly only a tactic that you need for the dark beam clearing. Pausing for regular boards is still needed for good times, but not to the point where you're advancing the game frame by frame, unless you're trying to squeeze every last possible second out of a board. Most of the times you see on the tournament scoreboards are probably not being done that way, though. It does help to pause while you are building a lot of things at once, or when you want to move your units, but then you just unpause and let the action run until you're ready to pause again to do more building/moving/etc...

Quote from: asmussen on February 26, 2013, 11:16:43 AM
The frame by frame thing is mostly only a tactic that you need for the dark beam clearing. Pausing for regular boards is still needed for good times, but not to the point where you're advancing the game frame by frame, unless you're trying to squeeze every last possible second out of a board. Most of the times you see on the tournament scoreboards are probably not being done that way, though. It does help to pause while you are building a lot of things at once, or when you want to move your units, but then you just unpause and let the action run until you're ready to pause again to do more building/moving/etc...

that is good to know about the frame by frame. I do pause from time to time but not nearly enough to get really good scores and manage attacking multiple emmiters.

I think it was Wheatmidge (I could be wrong, but someone who regularly posts great scores) who said that he doesn't even play on slow speed.  I tend to play on slow and pause when building a lot or planning strategy.  I only go frame by frame to evade drones in tough situations -- haven't mastered the dark beam thing yet.  The tips that helped me the most are 1) never let your energy consumption exceed production; 2) build up a lot before tackling creep and emitters.  I'd add to that, 3) look for any emitters you can take out as soon as you get your first gem. 

Oh, one more tip, as I play the fourth map:  Don't forget to notice that there are phantoms on the map...

Quote from: deety42 on February 26, 2013, 12:36:47 PM
Oh, one more tip, as I play the fourth map:  Don't forget to notice that there are phantoms on the map...

yeah I routinely forget about the Phantoms until they hit me. then I generally restart and watch the timer so I get defenses built.

Quote from: MizInIA on February 26, 2013, 02:09:18 PM

Quote from: deety42 on February 26, 2013, 12:36:47 PM
Oh, one more tip, as I play the fourth map:  Don't forget to notice that there are phantoms on the map...

yeah I routinely forget about the Phantoms until they hit me. then I generally restart and watch the timer so I get defenses built.

Heh!
I generally swear a blue streak...then re-load a blankety-blank 'Saved Game'...unless I forgot to save...razzlefrazitz!

Lots of overnight activity.

Wednesday - 13 Players, 59 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	mopa42	11730	12649	12180	10706	12326	59591	28:25
2	Lord_Farin	11812	12634	12226	10456	12245	59373	30:24
3	dt42	11754	12505	12102	10043	12064	58468	37:45
4	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
5	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
6	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
7	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
8	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
9	Ronini	11559	11865	11182	7847	10915	53368	91:09
10	Cinth	11704	12281	10770	7002	10603	52360	112:48
11	Helper	11748	12810	12277	10469		47304
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242			33728
13	Iqbal	11680	12230				23910

Scores recorded at 2013-02-27 18:04:05 forum time.

At the half, 11 players have finished all 5 games and the lead(s) have see-sawed repeatedly.

Thursday - 13 Players, 61 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	Lord_Farin	11812	12752	12226	10708	12245	59743	27:27
2	mopa42	11811	12715	12180	10706	12326	59738	27:27
3	Helper	11748	12810	12277	10532	12310	59677	28:08
4	dt42	11754	12505	12102	10043	12064	58468	37:45
5	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
6	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
7	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
8	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
9	Ronini	11559	12187	11182	9168	10915	55011	68:30
10	Cinth	11704	12281	11223	8263	10677	54148	81:48
11	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242		11124	44852
13	Iqbal	11680	12230				23910

Scores recorded at 2013-02-28 19:56:33 forum time.

LoFa takes the overall lead, but mopa-man grabs another Gold. Helpless is trying, but can't help himself yet.
Deety & Shawn are bumping heads, with GUI playing catchup.

inept_celt is changing his first name to 'ept' and we have some new players jumping in with both feet.

So far, a fine week!

Heheh! ;D Having our own CW2 reporter makes the tournaments fun for the non-participating spectators as well.

Mr. UpperKEES...this reporter has a question for you sir...

Are you ever going to do another CW2 game or are you focused on future versions?

[off topic]

Currently I'm involved with CW3 beta testing (besides other things), but I'm still planning to release a new version of Liberation Pinball (medium difficulty) and a second (puzzle) map that I have sitting on my hard disk for more than a year (95% finished).

I just need 1 full day of spare time to make sure they are perfect, which should be before the release of CW3.

[on topic]

(Pesky reporters...always asking that off-topic stuff. They're out of control, I tell ya!...Thanks for the update.)

I'm still beating on "Wrapped around the axle.", but can't get anywhere near those 10:30 times. I might have to start from scratch and try something radical.

The battle for first place is fairly close...film at 11.

Friday - 13 Players, 63 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	Lord_Farin	11812	12752	12226	10708	12427	59925	26:08
2	mopa42	11811	12829	12240	10706	12326	59912	26:17
3	Helper	11748	12810	12277	10621	12310	59766	27:23
4	dt42	11754	12505	12102	10043	12064	58468	37:45
5	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
6	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
7	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
8	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
9	Ronini	11559	12187	11182	9168	10915	55011	68:30
10	Cinth	11704	12281	11223	8263	11283	54754	75:43
11	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242		11124	44852
13	Iqbal	11680	12230	11831			35741

Scores recorded at 2013-03-01 17:16:32 forum time.

You guys up top are crazy good.  I've tried everything I could think of to cut my times and I can't come close on most of these boards.

There has to be some game play elements I'm missing or something..

Cinth -
Did you see this post by the Deetster?

Quote from: deety42 on February 26, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
The tips that helped me the most are 1) never let your energy consumption exceed production; 2) build up a lot before tackling creep and emitters.  I'd add to that, 3) look for any emitters you can take out as soon as you get your first gem. 

Also - in the very short games, you often do not need to build any Reactors or Tech Domes - just take the freebies you can dig for and charge the Emitters like crazy.

Yeah, I got that.  Used that to cut my total time from 112 to 75.  I'm still pretty far off some of the best times.  The way you guys approach these maps is more or less where I'm losing time too.

I was pretty casual with the CW games, just playing for completion, not for top scores.  Now that I've taken an interest in participating here, I'd like to be in the neighborhood with my times.

OK - understood.
I didn't grab any screenshots yet this week, but will be playing a couple of these again and try to remember.
Seeing other player's screenshots help me see how they're attacking.

Maybe some of the other players have some hints they can post.

Quote from: Helper on March 01, 2013, 02:30:09 PM
Cinth -
Did you see this post by the Deetster?

Quote from: deety42 on February 26, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
The tips that helped me the most are 1) never let your energy consumption exceed production; 2) build up a lot before tackling creep and emitters.  I'd add to that, 3) look for any emitters you can take out as soon as you get your first gem.  

Also - in the very short games, you often do not need to build any Reactors or Tech Domes - just take the freebies you can dig for and charge the Emitters like crazy.

I would like to point out that unless it's *REALLY* short (or if they blatantly give you nigh infinite energy), reactors will still be worth building. With no tech upgrades etc. a reactor only takes ~33 seconds to pay for itself - with full tech upgrades this number decreases to ~18 seconds. Typically I would guess unless the map will end in roughly 50 seconds, you're probably still better off building reactors (though there are of course exceptions to this). As for tech domes, those are a lot more complicated to calculate with and realistically can only be done by intuition.

The basic rules that should usually be used:
Use all of your energy, but don't have an energy deficit (there is a very small exception in that deficits can be useful if they only last for 0.5 seconds at the most)
Wait as long as possible before building your weapons. Your weapons should be firing as soon as they are built (again, some rare exceptions in that you might want to wait before opening a chamber to build up more weapons - but even then you should usually attack the chamber early and use shields to hold off the creeper while waiting for the rest of the weapons to finish building).

'as long as possible' in this sense means wait until you either have as much energy as you want, or if you need to defend some position - either way the weapons should be attacking as soon as they are built, and if they are ever not firing they should be moving. As mentioned earlier, unless you expect the map to be finishable in about the next minute, or if you simply don't have enough space to use more weapons (ie. couldn't actually use more energy even if you produced more), you should still be continuing to build reactors before attacking.

In code maps, you should usually only build tech domes if you have enough energy production that you can't continue to build reactors (ie. you would need to build reactors faster than you are able to dig through terrain). There are exceptions to this in difficult maps, but for most code maps this holds roughly true.

In large maps, you usually want to start digging down to the bottom of the map ASAP - don't worry about attacking the other chambers, just focus on digging down and building up energy, and then once you're at the bottom attack all the chambers simultaneously (you should have enough energy for this if you built lots of reactors and use the appropriate weapons). In some instances with big chambers you may want to attack the chamber from multiple sides at the same time (this is better than attacking from one side because weapons don't waste as much time moving - but only if you have enough energy to support it).

Someone should put that in the KC wiki  for CW2 gameplay. :)

That's a lot of good stuff, thanks :)

Just as an example of how I approached one of this weeks maps, Hit the road...

Grab the green gem and kill the first emitter with that energy. Drop reactors across the surface and dig up the RWB gems.
Dig out right on top of the upper right emitter and drop 3 blasters in the tunnel and have one blaster working on the left side creeper.  When the left blasters are ready breech that chamber and as soon as I have enough of an opening kill the emitter.
Fill in dug out area with reactors and place 2 more blasters left.  Dig into the center chamber from the right (grab green gem) and clear enough creeper to kill that emitter.  While that happens try to breech the next chamber on the left.  From there I try to get 2 makers pushing AC to help clear up creeper while I dig down and take out the emitters.  I place reactors in the dug out areas. I just work my way down as directly to the emitters as I can.  I use the tech available on the board for fire rate and a range upgrade.

Quote from: Helper on March 01, 2013, 02:30:09 PM
Cinth -
Did you see this post by the Deetster?

LOL...the Deetster...I kinda' like that. 

Hey deety - you and Shawn are running neck and neck in about every game.

That advice from Kithros is like a primer on CW2. I went back at Mission 4 and took almost a minute off my time.

One day to go and Lo_Fa is the class of the current field.

Muchas gracias to Kithros for that great advice. I tried it and it worked.

Saturday - 13 Players, 62 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	Lord_Farin	11812	12752	12312	10708	12427	60011	25:32
2	Helper	11748	12810	12277	10747	12408	59990	25:37
3	mopa42	11811	12829	12240	10706	12326	59912	26:17
4	dt42	11754	12615	12102	10151	12064	58686	35:56
5	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
6	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
7	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
8	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
9	Ronini	11559	12187	11182	9168	10915	55011	68:30
10	Cinth	11704	12281	11223	8263	11283	54754	75:43
11	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242		11124	44852
13	Iqbal	11680	12230	11831			35741

Scores recorded at 2013-03-02 14:22:11 forum time.

Congrats Helper on beating my time on the fourth, L/H map. Consequently, I've taken another chunk off your time on the third map :).

Having played all maps twice now, I think my contribution has ended (also, having crossed 60k is a satisfying enough achievement). Can't be bothered to slog through them yet again - although I might be tempted into another go at #2.

Lord_Farin - thanks for the kind words. I owe a very large 'domo arigato' to Kithros for his excellent advice.
The new games submitted queue has been empty for a couple of days and I had some time on my hands.

Not sure what gives with that third game. I thought I could shave some time off earlier today and can't even get close to the time I already posted.

I've got a hunch the mopa-man isn't finished yet.

Film at eleven.

Thanks for all the excellent advice.  I'm realizing that I think my big problem is in the end-game--attacking and cleaning up creeper always takes me a lot longer than I think it should.  But, I'm going to go back and try a few with all this advice in mind...

Thanks for all the tips :)

I was able to cut my overall down some more and even a top 3 score (as of this post anyway).

Once my strategy parts get honed in a bit better, I should be able to get into the neighborhood of the top 5 overall...

That's the goal anyway.

Sunday - 14 Players, 63 Scores


The advice posted helped out with a lot of games. I see that Cinth knocked over 20 minutes off total score and I improved almost 2 minutes! Very nice.

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	Lord_Farin	11812	12752	12312	10708	12427	60011	25:32
2	Helper	11748	12810	12277	10747	12408	59990	25:37
3	mopa42	11811	12829	12240	10706	12363	59949	26:00
4	dt42	11754	12615	12102	10151	12064	58686	35:56
5	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
6	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
7	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
8	Cinth	11792	12281	11586	9514	11465	56638	53:31
9	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
10	Ronini	11559	12187	11182	9168	10915	55011	68:30
11	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242		11124	44852
13	Iqbal	11680	12230	11831			35741

Scores recorded at 2013-03-03 05:19:12 forum time.

Thanks :)

Still  looking for ~15 more minutes to shave off.  Then I'll be happy.

Quote from: deety42 on February 26, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
I think it was Wheatmidge (I could be wrong, but someone who regularly posts great scores) who said that he doesn't even play on slow speed.

I can only speak for myself in saying that when I play, I play on fast speed, but pause alot. The pause is mainly about issuing orders without something else going wrong at the same time.

Lord_Farin is in the driver's seat for this week's game.

Thank you to all who played and contributed. A fun week.

Final Results - 15 Players, 64 Scores

Results Per Player


   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Rank	Name	It's only a game	Lighten up!	Give it a rest!	Wrapped around the axle.	Hit the road Jack	Total Score	Total Time
1	Helper	11818	12810	12277	10747	12408	60060	25:10
2	Lord_Farin	11812	12752	12312	10708	12427	60011	25:32
3	mopa42	11811	12829	12240	10706	12363	59949	26:00
4	dt42	11754	12621	12102	10151	12137	58765	35:20
5	asmussen	11758	12656	11994	9876	12001	58285	39:36
6	Gu250	11599	12446	12068	9730	11899	57742	43:55
7	Dagobert	11734	12592	11851	9204	11916	57297	49:26
8	Cinth	11792	12281	11586	9514	11650	56823	51:54
9	inept_celt	11517	12403	11578	8756	11186	55440	66:35
10	Ronini	11559	12187	11182	9168	10915	55011	68:30
11	MizInIA	11414	12066	10953	8287	10996	53716	83:27
12	teknotiss	10379	12107	11242		11124	44852
13	Iqbal	11680	12230	11831			35741
14	ctuna	11815					11815
15	Wheatmidge				10080		10080

Scores recorded at 2013-03-04 05:13:05 forum time.

I see someone couldn't let a newbie have a good time lol ;)

Anyway, I kept at "Wrapped" and "Hit the road" but couldn't figure a way to make up any more time.

Seemed like the more time I spent trying, the longer the boards took  :-\

Quote from: Cinth on March 04, 2013, 06:07:28 AM
Seemed like the more time I spent trying, the longer the boards took  :-\

That's happened to me more than once! I usually take a quick run through each of the games - just to see how they play out - and then come back at them again 'for score'. Very often that first score is the best I will get all week. Mission 3 (Give it a rest) was like that this week. I hit 4:19 on the first run and never got close to that again.

Hope you had some fun and will stick around for this week's game.

These boards were fun and definitely within my ability to play.  "Experimental Week" and the last 2 batman boards were pretty hard for me overall.  Now that this week has finished, I feel like I can ask how you all approached these.  The rotating fields on mission 4 really gave me problems (especially the one at the bottom). 

Quote from: Cinth on March 04, 2013, 06:26:23 AM
These boards were fun and definitely within my ability to play.  "Experimental Week" and the last 2 batman boards were pretty hard for me overall.  Now that this week has finished, I feel like I can ask how you all approached these.  The rotating fields on mission 4 really gave me problems (especially the one at the bottom). 

I think game selection in this thread should be geared toward the big chunk of us who are somewhere in the middle of the skill level. There is a great thread about "Impossible" games for anyone who wants to show off their superior abilities (and a good dose of humility for those of us who might think we're getting pretty good).

Attached is a screenshot from near the end of #4 (Wrapped...).
That bottom pit was killing me until I attacked it early. You can see the three different attack points. From that bottom right position, I used 2 Makers maxed out ("charged") and exploded them right on top of the Emitter. That let me build Shields and move Blasters/Launchers enough to control it and kill it. Shield placement is critical when playing in fields. It protects you as your Launchers chew up the densest Creeper and your Blasters can do the clean up work.

I hit the bottom from 3 sides too.. AC pushed in from the left, 4/4 Blasters and Missiles in the middle to keep the build up from getting real bad and on the right, I push down hard with just blasters and missiles.  I'm able to kill the emitter fine (placement and timing to go off before the field rotates to it).  Mostly it was cleaning up the left over.  I pretty much hit all the chambers from either the top or the left side (whichever was closer to the emitter/gate).  I'm going to guess that ss is around the 8 minute mark :(.  I'm definitely slower getting down to the bottom chamber.

Where my approach diverts from Helper's is in the more extensive use of Tech Domes. I've since noted that my time can be improved by at least one minute when it is played properly from the beginning (I used an intermediary save to post my second score of 10708).

The two attached screenshots should give an adequate picture of the strategy I used - keep in mind that my weapons are heavily upgraded. As for the other maps, they are covered by Kithros's strategy guide, with the annotation that I heavily and aggressively used makers on the fifth map.

I can really see that I need more weapons overall and to dig faster.

Quote from: Cinth on March 04, 2013, 08:12:39 AM
I can really see that I need more weapons overall and to dig faster.

In Kitros' comments, he mentioned the speed of digging to the bottom and multiple attacks.
I upgraded the Packet Speed before anything else, then attacked from 4-5 different spots when I was ready.

I think that building Tech Domes starting at about the 4 or 5 minute mark would have been helpful, but didn't think of it until Lord_Farin's comment.

I'll share how I got my one (remaining) top score in Lighten Up!
I pushed for energy and built a dark beam, which was marginally faster than attacking with conventional weapons. I started from the left chamber and found a place where I could build a nullifier while starting my attack on the right.

And for speed runs, my techs of choice are packet speed and weapon move speed, which makes a big difference when making a leapfrog advance.

That's how I did "Lighten Up".   I just hosed up placing the mirrors so I could fit the null in there.   :-\