Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World 4 => Gameplay discussions => Topic started by: matjojo on May 03, 2021, 03:34:52 PM

Title: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: matjojo on May 03, 2021, 03:34:52 PM
This list was made after a couple of post in the creeper world 4 channel in the discord about some gripes I had with the design of the campaign and its use as tutorial.


When I have a unit open I cannot move anything. (Not sure if counts for all units)
No hotkey for increasing size or depth of TERP. (And none in the settings to create a custom one)
The TERP size number is wrong compared to the actual size of the cursor.
Starting a level requires too many actions. (One to select, move mouse, click play) Fun for the first couple levels, just a double click would be fine for later.
Options menu, when unsaved, will close and stay the same until after you restart the game(? just one time I did this, so not sure)
I cannot look straight ahead, weird artificial(?) limit on what I can see.
No way to turn off "smooth scrolling" (?)
Death sound is same for ghosts and buildings.
Sound mixing is all over the place.
Sometimes an explosion is super loud out of the blue.
No kill log, so if you miss the ghost there is no way of knowing what has just died.
Keybinds appear to be a hit and miss combination of expecting the user to use a mouse and them having both hands on the keyboard.
Keybind menu will tell you that a key is set on another option but gives no easy way to remove that other binding, causing annoying searching.
No way of searching keybinds.(?)
Inconsistent use of mouseovers for units, some have them, some do not.
No easy way of knowing where a Spore launcher Sound is coming from.
No "event log" to see deaths and spore launcher one-minute-events (and blobs and more)
Artwork of that stuff that transmits creeper and multiplies creeper is similar enough to be confusing.
Mission text like "I should mine this" get's in the way of viewing said thing quite often, and can't be removed (?)
Totems don't tell you what they need all the time. (only when you've unpaused the map once(?))
The shields in some of the campaign maps don't really seem to use energy (?)
TERP locks you into top down view.
Total creeper graph is very hard to impossible to interpret for small changes
Delta creeper graph is hard to read.
Unclear how to mine greenar.
What is "Ultrac"?
Why can creeper go over those white lines but not AC?
No way to get the view to rotate around a thing(?)
Even on 64 zoom speed zoom is weirdly slow. (Another artificial limit?)
No way to change the sound level per thing(?)
Game ignores scroll input when not in focus even if windows is instructed to pass it through (and windows does pass it through to other programs)
In the controls menu you select "Mouse Wheel: " Zooms, but then the speed selection is "Bump scroll rate" Why the difference?
UI uses checkboxes even when only one option is possible. Radio buttons are generally meant for that, and are styled as circles instead of squares.
Controls menu has a "Save Keys to File" button but no "save" button, unclear when options are saved.
Inline options exist as well as an out-of-line options menu, unclear what is where.
Saving system appears to be opposite for the two.

Inline "Info" icon is very pixelated.
Style things that are somewhat opinion based:
Style of "Info" button is different from any other.
Style of "Total, Deta, Cover" Buttons is weirdly different from all other buttons.
Mouseover style of the spawn button is different from all others (that I've found)
Background style of "Factory, ERN PORT, RECORDER, and A.D.A[0]" is different from all others.
Style of "Paused, Sound:on" buttons are different from all others.
Style of "Options" button is different from all others.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 06:21:17 PM
Organized version:

A) Keybind Requests
B) Sound Requests
C) Gameplay details
D) Zoom and Camera Controls
E) Menus
F) MISC
G) Styles
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 07:08:14 PM
Going to address section C first, as it is the easiest to understand.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: michaelb958 on May 03, 2021, 07:14:20 PM
Responses to those that I can respond to:
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 07:28:48 PM
I want to be clear that I'm trying to give you solutions / answers that help you 'now'. Some of these features may be available in a later update or in a later game. I am not attempting to minimize your feedback.
Regarding
A) Keybinds:
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 07:33:00 PM
Regarding B) SOUND.

I'm sure you've already noticed the Sound , Game and Menu volume sliders.

Outside of this, there's no sound adjustments - certainly not on a per unit or per sound basis
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 07:45:04 PM
Regarding
D) Zoom and Camera Controls
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 08:54:59 PM
Regarding E menus - I think michaelb958 has covered most of it.

It would be nice to have double click auto start a level  - this might make a good github suggestion

Check boxes versus radio buttons: Radio buttons are typically used for mutually exclusive groups of options. I think checkboxes are the appropriate choice here.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 09:39:09 PM
Regarding:
F) MISC
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 03, 2021, 09:46:39 PM
Regarding
G) Styles

Info / Paused / Options styles do seem different. Maybe they should've been different in a consistent way. But I do agree that this is certainly a matter of opinion
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: matjojo on May 04, 2021, 05:33:38 AM
My reply was too long to post at once, so here we go in pieces:

Every time I have to mine something I have to try out the different mining buildings and hold them near it whilst hoping for some UI to pop up. Some more info in either a mouseover or in the unit selection UI would be nice. (I'm sure this will clear up with time, but I'm also sure I'm not the only one that experiences this.)

I was indeed talking about Mesh. The wiki says that it should flow over void terrain, but this is not my experience. (https://i.imgur.com/f0XhBmE.png)

Good to know. I had not seen this before.

Having to pause the game every time I hear that sound is indeed what I'm doing now, but I just learned from this thread that there is more info on the map.

(Indeed, but this is confusing so I noted it.)

(Indeed, but this is confusing so I noted it.)

(Indeed, but this is confusing so I noted it.) (Thanks, this categorization isn't apparent and I don't get why, but at least I know now.)

(Indeed, but this is super confusing so I noted it.) (Especially the fact that with no save button it saves just for that one level, what kinda UI is that? Super inconsistent and hard to understand for users.)

(I see, I hope this'll be fixed in a newer version then)
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: matjojo on May 04, 2021, 05:37:11 AM
The forum thinks I already posted this I don't know how much I need to type to make it think that this is a new post I think the forum interprets posts that fail to post due to too quick timing as already posted, that is certainly not meant to happen right? I hope that this is enough to fool the dupe filter otherwise I don't really know what to do.
(This graph can be very unclear. Graph lines may help.)


I understand, thanks.

I wish there where.

Good call, thanks.

This is not my experience:
And these are just the ones I know and use.
(I know that choices have to be made and that there is limited keyboard real estate.)


Thanks for that, but this is a very normal thing to want if you ask me.

Talking about the Controls menu, why is it so small? It is six whole screens long on my 1080p monitor. Why doesn't it grow?


I see, I hope that we will get at least some more categories, like "warnings", "Positives", "weapon sounds", "Explosions".
Please Please Please for explosions, they are so much louder than the rest of the game for me.

Actually it turns you around the middle of the screen, not the place you're clicking. (The best way to emulate what I mean is to hold the move cam and move map keys both and then move the mouse.)

I see, is there a way to edit zoom speed? It requires 7 whole scrolls of the wheel to go from zoomed out to zoomed in for me, and from zoomed in to out it takes 16(!)

Also this whole input seems weird. The game appears to ignore scroll speed and just zooms at roughly the same speed regardless of how fast I'm zooming.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: matjojo on May 04, 2021, 05:39:19 AM

This is actually a different case than I mean. When you have multiple windows open there is an option in most window managers (windows 10 has this, and I think I also remember PLASMA, XFCE, MATE, and LXQT having this option in the past.) to pass through scroll input to the window you are hovering over even when it is not in focus. I don't know if it's on the application or the OS to figure out when this hover is happening, but I know that QT does this, as well as chromium browsers (and with that electron) windows mail, factorio, Foobar2000, Notepad, Visual Studio, the Jetbrains Editors, and I assume many more as well.

I'm not asking the game to scroll whenever I scroll the wheel, just when I have it selected or when I'm hovering over it.


I see, my mistake. Is there then no way to change the zoom speed?

Actually the free camera view is still limited. See the video attached. I am moving my mouse further up than the camera appears to allow.

Both in the UI and for the camera the game forces you to scroll "smoothly" between steps I turn this off in applications since it makes me nauseous.

Actually for a lot of options that I meant they are mutually exclusive, like game speed, Windowed or Full-screen mode, and Right Click and Left Click option selection.
Weirdly the game does have radio buttons for the Antialiasing setting.


Clicking is only used for UI and selection right? So I'd say that a click on anything that cannot be selected is a good way of un-selecting. But I get your angle.


Good to hear.


Should I make an issue in this case? (And for some of the others?)

This is good to know. Thanks.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: matjojo on May 04, 2021, 05:46:16 AM

The TERP mission springs to mind, but really any mission. The text is big, doesn't (appear to) scale with zoom. That kinda stuff. For the users I think the easier and least invasive as well as least subject to forgetting would be to fade when the camera is closer. And have it fade 100% when parts of the text fall from the edge of the screen.


I think this is just my confusion, I must have looked in the wrong place once or twice since even going back to the map I meant (where you get the TERP) I cannot get this to appear again.

I get that this is a design choice. I may wish for more control, but sometimes it's technically infeasible. Thanks for clarifying.

I said this before, but I really think all three graphs would be helped by having some graph lines. Esp horizontal ones. They don't even have to have a scale attached, just a way to tell if a line is going net up or net down over larger widths.

See image: https://i.imgur.com/c8ObaqP.png I have a 1080P monitor and as far as I know, I have no changes to any scaling. I think it's clear that the circle around the I is pixelated a lot more than the Totem or Pylon.

"Total, Deta, Cover" Have different outlines, different background, different edges, and different selection colours.

Good point, I did not notice this.

I certainly agree that these are mainly a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 04, 2021, 06:57:37 PM
My only remaining suggestion is to visit the wiki - some portions of this game a kinda meant to be found by trial and error but the wiki should help.


As I mentioned, Mesh can only conduct fluids if it is Active. This is certainly not an easy to obtain situation - you need it to be active (blue) but also not carrying creeper.

No way to edit zoom speed


Ah, no way to adjust this that I am aware of.


I also took a look at this more after I replied, and I agree it is not consistent, but certainly servicable.


Clicking is for 'choosing a unit' (from the field or from unit pane) or 'moving/placing' selected unit. My perspective is that if I am currently 'moving/placing' I don't want to accidentally 'choose' if I click at/near an existing unit.


I will create github issues for the 2-4 things that I mentioned - I will link them in a reply after I create them. If you want to create additional issues for other items - that is your prerogative. Be aware that I believe it is likely that updates to this game may end soon - so they may not be implemented.


I see, no amount of scrolling or rotating gets that text out of the way; but once you build a terp it does remove itself.


I think can almost see what you're talking about here, but when ever I zoom in using windows magnifier or by changing the game's UI scale, it is clearly not present. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: Bob on May 04, 2021, 07:05:05 PM
Items that I entered in github:

I was about to enter that last one and I realized that it is for the Nullifier Overload setting - some maps (none in the campaign) allow you to 'overload' the nullifier to permanently destroy nullified structures.
Title: Re: List of 44 gameplay/ui gripes (Copied from discord)
Post by: ChaosMaster130 on May 21, 2021, 05:48:58 PM
I noticed this topic so I thought I'd drop in to mention one gameplay/UI gripe I had.

Bomber paths do not have a white line connecting then like in CW3, I kind of miss that feature as it helped me tell apart my aircraft targeting crosshairs at a glace.