Custom Map #2115: [RNG] The Coolant & Reducer. By: CS Z

Started by AutoPost, August 02, 2021, 10:32:17 PM

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This topic is for discussion of map #2115: [RNG] The Coolant & Reducer


Author: CS Z
Size: 120x200

CS Z

I made two new units for this map:

AC to Coolant Converter - Converts AC to coolant for faster rift jump times.  They start leaking after a while and eventually self-destruct.

Reducer - Emitters in range have their payload/power reduced each time the Reducer fires.  Can be used to convert emitters into AC emitters when they go negative.

The new units probably need some balancing/adjustments.  However, I hope you have fun with the map and there is some strategy involved with both units.  There's also probably some way to cheese things that I didn't think of.

The "RNG" is short for Random Number Generator.  Each time this map is played, it will be a different experience because the enemy units are placed in random locations.  Also, the mission script doesn't care if another unit is in the same spot as long as it fits on the terrain.

There's also a "secret/hidden" objective that's not exactly secret.

Niflthaena

Lots of fun. Reducers are a little bit overpowered - even on single emitters they can quickly scale up to fearsome levels.

The Reducers act a little funny, though. Had a cluster of five emitters, theoretically all in range of my Reducers, but the Reducers would only target 3 or 4 of them at a time. Is it possible that their range indicator increases with Range boosts, but their script does not?

Also, the map got really laggy once I had about three Reducers online, hovering around 10 UPS.

CS Z

Quote from: Niflthaena on August 03, 2021, 09:06:09 PM
Lots of fun. Reducers are a little bit overpowered - even on single emitters they can quickly scale up to fearsome levels.

The Reducers act a little funny, though. Had a cluster of five emitters, theoretically all in range of my Reducers, but the Reducers would only target 3 or 4 of them at a time. Is it possible that their range indicator increases with Range boosts, but their script does not?

Also, the map got really laggy once I had about three Reducers online, hovering around 10 UPS.

Yeah, Reducers were a little OP but I wanted folks to have fun when they first use a new unit.  New units are not likely to be used/experimented with if the map is a slog since players will tend to resort to what they know.  It's mostly adjusting the various variables to get the Reducers just right (unit/ware costs + how much it reduces by).  And maybe applying a log function or something once the unit goes negative so players can't go below a set negative limit rather than just doing a straight linear reduction each time.

As to the range, the calculations should have been made by the game.  I called the 4RPL function GetUnitRangeWithMods(), which supposedly does that calculation (range with ERN portal range boost, etc)???  So I'm not sure what is wrong here.  I personally didn't encounter what you describe but I'll also admit that I'm not that familiar with how unit range calculations work on the 4RPL side so I probably messed something up.

As to the lag, I think rotating the objects of the unit every frame probably has something to do with that.  I probably should have been a tad more responsible and limited the number of frames of rotation especially since I cut the speed to 1/4th of a degree per frame.  I also rotate two objects instead of one unified object and I'm moving the beams while firing every frame.  It's not like anyone's going to care if there's occasional jankiness in the rotation of the unit even if I waited longer and moved 2-5 degrees at a time (i.e. once every 8-20 frames).  That would probably help reduce the unit's lag a lot.  I spent most of my time getting the laser beam portion to not be extremely buggy (it generally wanted to move both ends of the beam while it was firing).  I only had a small amount of lag on my computer but I've got a pretty powerful machine and I figured it was the 1.5 million AC on the map rather than the Reducers.

At any rate, I'm glad you enjoyed the map and the new, slightly buggy and overpowered units!

Durikkan

#4
Quote from: Niflthaena on August 03, 2021, 09:06:09 PMThe Reducers act a little funny, though. Had a cluster of five emitters, theoretically all in range of my Reducers, but the Reducers would only target 3 or 4 of them at a time. Is it possible that their range indicator increases with Range boosts, but their script does not?

The reducers require line of sight from a point on the unit that is somewhere below the dish (maybe the bottom of the unit?), so hills or other terrain will sometimes prevent them from targeting things that would otherwise be in range, even if the dish has line of sight to it.   I can confirm their range does increase with the ern upgrade. 

Note that their line of sight issues are the main thing keeping their semi-hidden super buff from dominating the map. 
I'm known as Auri in cw4.

CS Z

Quote from: Durikkan on August 04, 2021, 04:17:32 PM
Quote from: Niflthaena on August 03, 2021, 09:06:09 PMThe Reducers act a little funny, though. Had a cluster of five emitters, theoretically all in range of my Reducers, but the Reducers would only target 3 or 4 of them at a time. Is it possible that their range indicator increases with Range boosts, but their script does not?

The reducers require line of sight from a point on the unit that is somewhere below the dish (maybe the bottom of the unit?), so hills or other terrain will sometimes prevent them from targeting things that would otherwise be in range, even if the dish has line of sight to it.   I can confirm their range does increase with the ern upgrade. 

Note that their line of sight issues are the main thing keeping their semi-hidden super buff from dominating the map.

Actually, the ERN unit range boost (not portal) was an accident I realized might exist after I had already published the map (hence my "cheese" comment).  I thought that field would be a straight value boost when it is apparently a multiplier of the base value.  So 5 = 5x base, not base + 5.  It's not intuitive and would be nice if the editor had hover tooltips for unit weapon settings, which would have avoided the issue.

The ERN Reducer cheese isn't the map's secret/hidden objective.  The secret/hidden objective is also buggier than I wanted it to be.  Basically, it enabled and instantly completed for me.

CirJohn

Thoroughly enjoyed this map.

The RNG can be a bit damning if one of the first two emitters spawns near the Flip Breeder, but otherwise it is well balanced for early game. Late game (15 min+) is a little too easy. Giving the Emitters a shallow exponential component to the increase of emission might help that.

Reducers are an interesting mechanic, but they do tend to snowball into the late game. By destroying and repositioning Reducers, I was able to transform almost all of the emitters into AC producers. This could be prevented by requiring that a Reducer stay active near effected Emitters to prevent them from reverting to creep emission. I think that idea combined with a constant Arg cost and/or logarithmic caps could completely balance Reducers while allowing them to remain fun, interesting, and useful.

Your Coolant Converter/countdown mechanic is perfect, and I hope to see it in future maps. The trade-off of AC for increased timer progression felt like a meaningful strategic choice and would work well on any timed map (with or without Breeders).

Good job. I'm gonna go look for more of your maps now.