Really?

Oraknah · 1464

Oraknah

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on: December 08, 2020, 09:57:14 am
I Play creeper world 4 i am in last level... You just removed more stuff then addet where is the ships where is the artilery structure that you can build in creeper world 3 ...
NEW ENEMIES ? WHERE ? SPECIAL CIRCLE THAT UPGRADE YOU ... GENERATORS ... Nice it is in 3D ...  only 1 upgrade... before we can upgrading more ... This is not new game this is creeper world 1 in 3D... This is only early aces right ? RIGHT ?! I love your games but this   :'(  :'(  :'( Please tell me it is not finished and you will add stuff :) Thanks. (sorry for language i am not from america)



chwooly

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Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 11:15:16 pm
I am glad to see I am not the only 1 that felt with was just a reskin of CW1.


Cheers

“Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love


TimmyB

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Reply #2 on: December 20, 2020, 03:25:26 pm
Agree this is CW1 plus. Prefer CW3 and still occasionally play CW2. CW1 not so much, so this may bring it back to life. Of the four, this feels the most like a "shoot 'em up" action game. So far, most--if not all--of the maps (from Mark V, Span Experiments, and Colonies) I've tried reward speed rather than puzzle-solving skills. It looks like the design of this version skews things in that direction.

Why abandon the multi-level upgrade system? It helped gameplay, especially in speeding things up.

Still looking for a way to determine current terrain height. This very much needs a clear description of the interface and information it provides.

Sprayers seem ineffective. They weren't in CW1--perhaps if this is a return to the old game, they seemed less important? Would think reactors easier than miners. They don't require mapping specific terrain.  If patches still in progress--how about allowing player to select length of runway? In one game had to terp a couple mountains to get a long enough level strip.



Grabz

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Reply #3 on: December 30, 2020, 06:43:00 pm
Why abandon the multi-level upgrade system? It helped gameplay, especially in speeding things up.
Forge makes maps simply a grind to victory. CW4 is more of a puzzle. You have your resources and you have to figure out how to use them to win. No just sitting around waiting on Aether in order to win.

For quicker response, reply to me directly at Grabz#4707 on Discord. Find me on the KC server: https://discord.gg/knucklecracker


Feralprowler

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Reply #4 on: January 01, 2021, 04:04:04 am
 Oraknah and Chwooly
This is not simply a reskin. This game combines elements of all three games (yes even creeper world 2). I feel like it is the best compilation of all three games, put together and given a unique interface. I suppose you two have not commented since the full release so I cannot assume you hold the same opinions you did, but everything that was removed has been balanced with some other aspect. And there are certainly more enemy types than before.

Timmy B:
Your main argument is that the game doesn’t feel like it rewards problem solving skills, and yet the very things you take issue with, are the things that MAKE the game reward problem solving skills.
Speed is always rewarded in ANY of the Creeper World games. It is a war of attrition; you need to gain as much ground as fast as possible to get a better foot hold early on. The puzzle solving lies in one’s ability to build networks efficiently and effectively to gain as much ground as fast as possible.
I really do not get what you mean by this feeling like a “shoot em up” action game? Id like it if you elaborate on that, I do not see that at all.
The Forge system, as our collegue “Grabz” expertly points out, was rather broken. No matter how bad your strategy or how screwed you were, all you had to do was just hold on and keep aether flowing and you had a guarantee win. The upgrades always eventually made you far overpowered, its just a matter of time and Aether.
You want strategy?  Puzzle Solving? Just look at the ERN’s. They combine the “power circles” (I don’t remember their canon name) from CW3 with the upgrade system. It greatly streamlines the upgrade process, but also gives you options to have mobile super units. However, it forces you to be wise and conservative, instead of just sitting back until you have a massive load of aether to pump into things.
There is a tool tip that shows you terrain height of where your curser is, as well as how high creeper / anticreeper is.
Again, you complain that there is not enough puzzle solving, and yet then bash the very things that MAKE it puzzle solving. Sprayers are honestly my favorite thing. Have you tried the “always on” feature on your sprayers? Try having all your miners set to bluite, and all of your sprayers set to always on. Few things bring me more joy than creating my own constant wall of Anticreeper.
The miners are all about managing economy. They force you to choose between power output VS anticreeper output. Miners should ALWAYS be in use, either to pump anticreeper constantly through sprayers or bombers, or to be giving extra power to the network when it is overloaded. If you are not using them constantly for one or the other, you are wasting resources.
The limited placement is, again, puzzle solving. In CW3 you could spam the whole map with reactors, enough to basically have an army of berthas, it was a bit broken. Now there is essentially a finite amount of energy you can produce, and its based on the efficiency of your network and placement, again puzzle solving.
Lastly, the runways, you are complaining that you had to modify the land just to get your airfields to fit. My man, have you not played Tetris? Again, puzzle solving. Fit the runways, or change the land, its yet another puzzle solving. The bombers in this game are essentially a far better version of the “fighters” in CW3, and if you have a lot of them, they can be super overpowering, the long airstrips mean devoting A LOT of land to them, keeping them somewhat in check.
Grabz:
Thankyou good sir, you nailed it. The forge system was broken and abusable.



flamewolf393

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Reply #5 on: January 03, 2021, 07:48:19 pm
When has creeper world ever been about puzzle solving? Its an action-tower defense game. Every map is pretty much the same: get your energy up, set up enough defenses to hold back the creeper, once you are at a stalemate with the creeper you are guaranteed the win cause theres no surprises or anything. Then you finish filling in your energy production and build whatever weapons you need to start advancing. Just take it slow and careful and eventually you win.

The *only* thing that makes creeper world maps difficult is if they have special surprises like the eggs in wallis, or if there are really early assaults and you have to speed run and micromanage setting up the early game to make every second count. Even in rush maps like wallis, once you surivive the first 5-10 minutes you will win eventually cause the creeper cant get past your defensive line.



GoodMorning

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Reply #6 on: January 03, 2021, 08:29:40 pm
This is a good illustration that different people play the games in different ways. I think we all agree that there are benefits to be had from detailed management of one's units. However, some maps are balanced to require that detailed management, others are winnable (and more fun) on 4x speed the whole way.

My experience with CW3 was that I moved from flamewolf393's play-style to Feralprowler's over time, and enjoyed the game all the while.

A narrative is a lightly-marked path to another reality.