How in the world is it possible to have a time of 0:00 on that map? Especially since Frame Steps and Pausing don't seem to work. :/
resume it and then play it,its a puzzle
I know it's a puzzle, and I beat it. For the sake of clarity, let me rephrase:
How is it possible to have beaten the map in zero seconds? (Note the high scores. Some people beat it in 0:00.)
You can't activate totems while the game is paused. You can't click and step time forward one frame, and have activated a totem. So, if you can't activate totems without time passing, how can you beat the map without time passing?
Maybe after they beat it, they recorded the sequence of moves and fed it into a keyboard macro so that all they had to do is unpause and then hit one key to send the entire sequence, or something like that? Or, I suppose the P to unpause could start out the macro, even. Don't know if that's how they actually did it or not, but that's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head.
A sensible answer.
"n" allows frame by frame play, perhaps it takes less than one second like that!
Quote from: teknotiss on October 11, 2013, 10:59:54 AM
"n" allows frame by frame play, perhaps it takes less than one second like that!
I did try that. I think the Crpl script in that mission disables it because of the way the mission timer works. 'P' as a hotkey for pausing and unpausing the action is also disabled.
dunno then dude, sorry
You could probably hack the game so that all totems are always active. I don't see any other way it could be done. (I used extreme button mashing)
i believe there are some concerns about score hacking on the first mission, so perhaps we have cheater/s already?
oh well so it goes, some people are so sad ::)
I've not been able to get under 20 seconds on the map... when I was a teenager I could do this puzzle (using the number pad keys) in just under 15 seconds. It requires a perfect run to get that fast. I fear I will never get under 20 seconds again, though, as my fingers can't move that fast anymore. When I was a kid I wrote an assembly version of this puzzle and practiced daily for several months to get that <15 second time :)
Quote from: virgilw on October 15, 2013, 11:00:16 AM
I've not been able to get under 20 seconds on the map... when I was a teenager I could do this puzzle (using the number pad keys) in just under 15 seconds. It requires a perfect run to get that fast. I fear I will never get under 20 seconds again, though, as my fingers can't move that fast anymore. When I was a kid I wrote an assembly version of this puzzle and practiced daily for several months to get that <15 second time :)
::)
...and that's why you made CW1,2,3 and i didn't, coding hurts my head :D
I don't quite understand this map. So, it's a puzzle instead of a level? Can someone give me an idea/hint what I have to do? It's the only map I haven't finished in the star system.
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 15, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
I don't quite understand this map. So, it's a puzzle instead of a level? Can someone give me an idea/hint what I have to do? It's the only map I haven't finished in the star system.
It is, in fact, a puzzle. Victory conditions are met when you activate all 8 Totems. I recommend using the number keys to activate the totems instead of clicking, as that takes forever.
The solution is:
Spoiler
not here. But, I can tell you that you can only activate a totem if the number just before it is active and the other preceding numbers are not. Example: If you wish to activate Totem 3, you must have Totem 2 active, and Totem 1 offline. To do this, you must type: 1, 2, 1, 3, 1. This will activate Totem 1, which allows you to activate Totem 2. But, you cannot activate Totem 3 until Totem 1 is offline. If you follow this pattern all the way to Totem 8, the solution easily reveals itself.
Also, Good luck!
Quote from: teknotiss on October 11, 2013, 07:00:31 PM
i believe there are some concerns about score hacking on the first mission, so perhaps we have cheater/s already?
oh well so it goes, some people are so sad ::)
Although it's possible that this was score hacking, for this particular mission, since it's solvable using a predetermined key sequence, I still think that the 0 times may have been done using some sort of keyboard macro or other method to automatically send a sequence of keys to the program faster than anybody could possibly type them.
Quote from: asmussen on October 15, 2013, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: teknotiss on October 11, 2013, 07:00:31 PM
i believe there are some concerns about score hacking on the first mission, so perhaps we have cheater/s already?
oh well so it goes, some people are so sad ::)
Although it's possible that this was score hacking, for this particular mission, since it's solvable using a predetermined key sequence, I still think that the 0 times may have been done using some sort of keyboard macro or other method to automatically send a sequence of keys to the program faster than anybody could possibly type them.
Let's see. It should take 256 key presses to finish the puzzle. How many game ticks per second? Also, can you activate more than 1 totem per tick? Probably not, since I think the script is only run from a single CRPL timer (if it were run from more than one, you could potentially press multiple keys and have different scripts picking up on them). Thus, theoretical best time with a macro would be 256/ticks per second.
Quote from: keldor314 on October 15, 2013, 10:05:21 PM
....
Thus, theoretical best time with a macro would be 256/ticks per second.
This may be the case. And my understanding of Crpl Scripting is that scripts execute every frame. Then the minimum time for this mission should be 1 keystroke per frame, which is 256/30, or 8.533 seconds.
Well, if only one totem can be activated per frame, that would definitely shoot a hole in my theory.
Well. Who knows, really. There's some code in the Script that resets the mission timer when you hit Space. So maybe someone has a macro capable of hitting all the keys and space--thereby resetting the timer--before the victory message comes up. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into this and I should let it go :P
Quote from: TLMike on October 15, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 15, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
I don't quite understand this map. So, it's a puzzle instead of a level? Can someone give me an idea/hint what I have to do? It's the only map I haven't finished in the star system.
It is, in fact, a puzzle. Victory conditions are met when you activate all 8 Totems. I recommend using the number keys to activate the totems instead of clicking, as that takes forever.
The solution is: Spoiler
not here. But, I can tell you that you can only activate a totem if the number just before it is active and the other preceding numbers are not. Example: If you wish to activate Totem 3, you must have Totem 2 active, and Totem 1 offline. To do this, you must type: 1, 2, 1, 3, 1. This will activate Totem 1, which allows you to activate Totem 2. But, you cannot activate Totem 3 until Totem 1 is offline. If you follow this pattern all the way to Totem 8, the solution easily reveals itself.
Also, Good luck!
Aha, ok. I didn't get that from the description at all. I must have clicked it away before reading the explanation at the start of the level.
Edit:
Ok, I finished it. It reminded me of the Tower of Hanoi (the 3 pegs and the discs you have to move).
I think it has something to do with pressing the space key during the victory sequence.
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 16, 2013, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: TLMike on October 15, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on October 15, 2013, 05:47:34 PM
I don't quite understand this map. So, it's a puzzle instead of a level? Can someone give me an idea/hint what I have to do? It's the only map I haven't finished in the star system.
It is, in fact, a puzzle. Victory conditions are met when you activate all 8 Totems. I recommend using the number keys to activate the totems instead of clicking, as that takes forever.
The solution is: Spoiler
not here. But, I can tell you that you can only activate a totem if the number just before it is active and the other preceding numbers are not. Example: If you wish to activate Totem 3, you must have Totem 2 active, and Totem 1 offline. To do this, you must type: 1, 2, 1, 3, 1. This will activate Totem 1, which allows you to activate Totem 2. But, you cannot activate Totem 3 until Totem 1 is offline. If you follow this pattern all the way to Totem 8, the solution easily reveals itself.
Also, Good luck!
Aha, ok. I didn't get that from the description at all. I must have clicked it away before reading the explanation at the start of the level.
Edit:
Ok, I finished it. It reminded me of the Tower of Hanoi (the 3 pegs and the discs you have to move).
It is indeed related to the Tower Of Hanoi. Details spoilered because this technically gives the solution:
Spoiler
If the smallest disk is numbered 1 and the largest disk is numbered 8, then the optimal solution to this puzzle is to press number of the disk you move in the corresponding step of the optimal solution to the Tower of Hanoi.
See http://oeis.org/A001511 for more about this sequence.
I am very sure everyone who beats an mission in 00:00 is using cheats.
Quote from: Jacobkolstad on October 31, 2013, 05:19:21 AM
I am very sure everyone who beats an mission in 00:00 is using cheats.
Most likely. :)
If you come across a score like that, please alert Virgil and he'll take care of it.
I think dodgy scores are the smallest thing on V's plate at the moment. With that, I'm letting them lie.
i cant figure this out
Quote from: PMouser on February 10, 2014, 01:45:41 AM
i cant figure this out
This puzzle is all about how the totems relate to each other. Each one has a specific method of turning off and on, and the overall rule is the same for all totems. Once you figure out what that rule is, the rest becomes pretty much easy. If you need it, I'll spoiler a hint for you.
Spoiler
A totem decides whether it can be turned on or not ONLY by the totems to the left of it, never to the right.
Hey, Virgil. You said you used to be able to get under 20 seconds on the puzzle. I assume that's with 8 boxes/totems/whatever... but since the rules of the puzzle are so simple (basically), the puzzle could be extended to even larger versions. What do you think, in your speed-typing prime, your fastest time would have been with 16 keys (1-9, (1)0, and A-F)? 36 (0-Z)? What about now with your (still fast but) slower typing speed?
In theory, would adding one key double the average speed-time for the puzzle, or just add a little fraction of time?
Edit: @Response: Wow, so that's 43690 keystrokes to solve it at 16 totems. That's... a lot. 257 times the number for 8 totems. :o That would take... 64:25 if 8 totems takes 00:15, not taking getting tired into account.
1 Totem : 1 Key press to solve
2 Totems : 2 Key presses to solve
3 Totems : 5 Key presses to solve
4 Totems : 10 Key presses to solve
5 Totems : 21 Key presses to solve
6 Totems : 42 Key presses to solve
7 Totem : 85 Key presses to solve
8 Totems : 170 Key presses to solve
So as you can see each extra totem either either doubles, or doubles plus 1 the number of required key presses.
At 16 totems I wouldn't have the stamina to keep up a high rate of key presses.
The solution is
Spoiler
A secret
No,seriously!
It will ruin the fun!
Fine... I give up
1
Spoiler
2
Spoiler
13
Spoiler
1214
Spoiler
12131215
Spoiler
1213121412131216
Spoiler
12131214121312151213121412131217
Spoiler
1213121412131215121312141213121612131214121312151213121412131218
Spoiler
121312141213121512131214121312161213121412
Speaking of speed, there is now this positronic achievement which requires finishing this puzzle in 60 sec,
There is no way I can do this as it usually takes me a few 3-4 minutes at best to finish it, using this particular sequence, to me the positronic steam achievement is impossible maybe if it was 5 minutes, I can do it, but not 1 it takes a lot of time and this map doesn't work while paused even pausing and unpausing for a few strokes don't work. any help with speed is appreciated, I know how the puzzle actually works.
Quote from: hbarudi on April 07, 2014, 08:49:26 PM
Speaking of speed, there is now this positronic achievement which requires finishing this puzzle in 60 sec,
There is no way I can do this as it usually takes me a few 3-4 minutes at best to finish it, using this particular sequence, to me the positronic steam achievement is impossible maybe if it was 5 minutes, I can do it, but not 1 it takes a lot of time and this map doesn't work while paused even pausing and unpausing for a few strokes don't work. any help with speed is appreciated, I know how the puzzle actually works.
You could do it frame-by-frame.
I cheated for the time one, looked at the anwser and type it, and i did it in like 50 seconds.
Quote from: Asbestos on April 07, 2014, 10:37:51 PM
Quote from: hbarudi on April 07, 2014, 08:49:26 PM
Speaking of speed, there is now this positronic achievement which requires finishing this puzzle in 60 sec,
There is no way I can do this as it usually takes me a few 3-4 minutes at best to finish it, using this particular sequence, to me the positronic steam achievement is impossible maybe if it was 5 minutes, I can do it, but not 1 it takes a lot of time and this map doesn't work while paused even pausing and unpausing for a few strokes don't work. any help with speed is appreciated, I know how the puzzle actually works.
You could do it frame-by-frame.
Yeah. That doesn't work. Frame skipping is disabled.
Frame skipping is not disabled, the crpl script just checks for the real time instead of game time. So you can run the game at x4 and the time will just go up like you were playing in x1 (the time shown in the middle of the screen, not the time in the bottom right corner).
Right.