This topic is for discussion of map #10482: Just a silly trick I found
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=10482)
Author: Martin Gronsdal
Size: 20x20
Desc:
and you still manage to turn that little trick into a challenge! Thanks as ever Martin.
Is the Thor that won't fire an intentional feature or did I do something wrong? Anyway, fun map!
thor? i spotted no thors...
anyway, killed the emitter and the victory doesn't trigger...
was i supposed to do something else after killing the emitter?
Thanks for playing
Quote from: teknotiss on January 07, 2023, 04:45:38 PMthor? i spotted no thors...
anyway, killed the emitter and the victory doesn't trigger...
was i supposed to do something else after killing the emitter?
Kill'em all!
Quote from: teknotiss on January 07, 2023, 04:45:38 PMthor? i spotted no thors...
anyway, killed the emitter and the victory doesn't trigger...
was i supposed to do something else after killing the emitter?
You can build a Thor, but I couldn't get it to fire on the creeper.
How did you guys proceed?
Quote from: wolfgoesmoo on January 07, 2023, 06:11:48 PMQuote from: teknotiss on January 07, 2023, 04:45:38 PMthor? i spotted no thors...
anyway, killed the emitter and the victory doesn't trigger...
was i supposed to do something else after killing the emitter?
You can build a Thor, but I couldn't get it to fire on the creeper.
Did you mean Bertha? I don't see a Thor on the level either!
Didn't try it myself, but if you target a Bertha at the center, maybe it doesn't fire because there is AC there (at the center of the singularity) not creeper. Berthas only fire on creeper.
If the level doesn't finish - did you
Spoiler
also kill the blue anti-air node to the top-right?
i like the map design a lot
What does it remind you of?
As in Rorschach test?
Oh yeah, I meant a Bertha.
I got my faster time by
Spoiler
Putting my singularities in the top left and not worrying too much about the creeper, and then using a couple guppies to build the nullifier in the top right.
I don't have a single hont on where to start
Singularity weapon not connected ... so what ?
you dammit demon :)
Quote from: Arno on January 09, 2023, 05:40:54 PMI don't have a single hont on where to start
Singularity weapon not connected ... so what ?
you dammit demon :)
You can
Spoiler
charge totems without a forge by selecting them and checking the box.
Quote from: Weasee on January 07, 2023, 09:11:14 PMQuote from: wolfgoesmoo on January 07, 2023, 06:11:48 PMQuote from: teknotiss on January 07, 2023, 04:45:38 PMthor? i spotted no thors...
anyway, killed the emitter and the victory doesn't trigger...
was i supposed to do something else after killing the emitter?
You can build a Thor, but I couldn't get it to fire on the creeper.
i will have another bash at it then sometime... not sure why i missed that! :)
Did you mean Bertha? I don't see a Thor on the level either!
Didn't try it myself, but if you target a Bertha at the center, maybe it doesn't fire because there is AC there (at the center of the singularity) not creeper. Berthas only fire on creeper.
If the level doesn't finish - did you
Spoiler
also kill the blue anti-air node to the top-right?
I like all the constructive suggestions here!
had a new idea... now sub 50 secs!!
How, please tell
There is a spot where
Spoiler
you can nullify both the emitter and the anti-air node at the same time
using the singularity in the right spot:
Spoiler
just to the left/down from the emitter, opens enough space for the (hidden) guppy to build some collectors and build the nullifier!
Lift the CN just as the collectors have built, and only supply the forge with just enough packets to get the nullifier built, otherwise the guppy runs out
but are you otherwise okay?
;-)
:-D lol, yes thank you, I appreciate your concern!
Quote from: rennervate on January 12, 2023, 12:22:19 PMbut are you otherwise okay?
;-)
Weasee is not human, if you thought that. He is an evil software anomaly sent here by the evil side to torment us. Maybe weasee is actually creeper?
images.jpg
there you go!
Quote from: Weasee on January 12, 2023, 04:35:21 AMThere is a spot where
Spoiler
you can nullify both the emitter and the anti-air node at the same time
Spoiler
just to the left/down from the emitter, opens enough space for the (hidden) guppy to build some collectors and build the nullifier!
Lift the CN just as the collectors have built, and only supply the forge with just enough packets to get the nullifier built, otherwise the guppy runs out
WOW... Weasee!!!... Evil??? Np Way!!! "Into every generation a hero is born"... and the rest of us climb to new heights by standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before...
Spoiler
Reference:- Buffy the Vampire Slayer USA TV show in the late 90s
Tries that failed include:-
-Destroying the emitter as it disgorged another 2000 pile of creeper with an empty forge does not allow a win by waiting for all of that creeper to evaporate... I did not want to leave my computer on for the far too many hours (?days?) that was taking...
-Also had problems energizing the forge so it would store Totem production... Till...
Spoiler
I "C" keyed all the Totems except for the 100X super Forge.... once I did that... the Command Ship started sending energy to both the Totem and the forge... Makes no sense to me... But it worked...
You finished the map so fast that I suspect you didn't even need to reenergize the forge... !!!!! Rereading your above hints...
Spoiler
Am now wondering if the two Spoiler alerts are really one single sentence split in half... ?????
- That HIDDEN GUPPY you mention... is really well hidden ... Could not find it by links from the collectors... nor by "O" key search after I built my own guppies... Perhaps clones of the missing Berthas and Thors in the several above posts... ????
Quote from: oldnewby on March 16, 2023, 03:32:31 PMYou finished the map so fast that I suspect you didn't even need to reenergize the forge... !!!!! Rereading your above hints... Spoiler
Am now wondering if the two Spoiler alerts are really one single sentence split in half... ?????
I'd have to look at the level again, but I think the guppy is
Spoiler
far far away - you need to zoom out!
and yes, the two spoilers are hints to my solution, the first more obtuse than the second :-)
Quote from: Weasee on March 16, 2023, 08:03:59 PMQuote from: oldnewby on March 16, 2023, 03:32:31 PMYou finished the map so fast that I suspect you didn't even need to reenergize the forge... !!!!! Rereading your above hints... Spoiler
Am now wondering if the two Spoiler alerts are really one single sentence split in half... ?????
I'd have to look at the level again, but I think the guppy is
Spoiler
far far away - you need to zoom out!
and yes, the two spoilers are hints to my solution, the first more obtuse than the second :-)
My screen never did show the hidden guppy... But...
Spoiler
The old click a guppy... then press "O" THEN.... start landing the guppies... and WOHAAAAA !!!!!!!!!... a third guppy track appears leading way off screen... perhaps even buried under the bottom info/control block... And having forgotten how to disappear/reappear the bottom info/control block... It is time for me to go back to CW3 to review some how-to-play screen basics...
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on January 10, 2023, 06:54:23 AMI like all the constructive suggestions here!
After a bad brain burn and sleepless nights on yet another of your Singularity training maps... I SHUDDER to admit I retreated to watching chick flicks and reading Sci Fic books to fill the hours that my CW3 addiction otherwise consumed... Then after some months rebuilding my shaken confidence in DMD's easiest maps... I finally was able to come up with a research plan and reopen this map as a test bed to answer a basic question on how the SINGULARITY works...
Thesis Q => "Does the size of the singularity blast act like a Black Hole's gravity field and increase the strength and breadth of the attractive force... or does it merely increase the duration of the holding time per the 1 second per 5 units Aether expended formula..."
Test => Restart Map #10482 and save it once the Command Ship lands and a Totem receives one charge which activates the Singularity FIRE button - At time 4.2 seconds - Then try a single 100% blast... and record the creeper level at the center emitter and each of the 4 map corners until the corner creeper levels drop to Zero For comparison, Open the save and repeat using the 25% blast setting... Then immediately firing again and again as soon as the FIRE button allows...
Results=>
Spoiler
The single 100% blast kept attracting creeper long after the corner creeper levels all dropped to zero... This took till 67.7 seconds on the map timer Finishing the map by adding a collector to the SW corner to generate more Aether... took 3,33 minutes
The second 25% multiple firing test achieved zero creeper in all 4 corners in 24.1 seconds... for a much faster completion time. ~ 65 seconds.
CONCLUSIONS=>
Spoiler
The effect of multiple small Singularity bursts is additive and much more effective than a single large Singularity burst on a small map...
Hopefully expert CW3 map designers will advise us if the blast radius/area remains constant vs. increases with the size of the blast...
Thank you again Martin for your challenging maps- I learned a lot about using Singularities from this one... And a little brain stretching is good for me...
Quote from: oldnewby on April 16, 2023, 04:48:23 PMHopefully expert CW3 map designers will advise us if the blast radius/area remains constant vs. increases with the size of the blast...
The radius of the blast doesn't increase with the number of bursts... but the radius does increase with the Forge's "Fire Range" upgrades. I haven't experimented enough to see if the strength of the singularity increases with the "Fire Rate" upgrades or not...
I have been on some maps, with an upgraded forge, and the massive radius of the singularity was actually a hindrance not a benefit!
My question is not who made the two of you (Weasee and oldnewby), but why!
Hehe and many thanks for playing!
Quote from: Weasee on April 16, 2023, 07:27:54 PMQuote from: oldnewby on April 16, 2023, 04:48:23 PMHopefully expert CW3 map designers will advise us if the blast radius/area remains constant vs. increases with the size of the blast...
The radius of the blast doesn't increase with the number of bursts... but the radius does increase with the Forge's "Fire Range" upgrades. I haven't experimented enough to see if the strength of the singularity increases with the "Fire Rate" upgrades or not...
I have been on some maps, with an upgraded forge, and the massive radius of the singularity was actually a hindrance not a benefit!
Thank you again Weasee...
Confirmed the effect of increasing Fire Rates...
Test 3 => Fire rate level 5/5 => Two bars of the 4 corners zeroed faster at time 20.9 sec. And the SW collector survived at 25.8 sec. BUT... My Aether supply and Singularity timers ran out just as the X100 Totem engaged...
Result => Failure!! But a failure that proved that adding the maximum 5/5 Fire Rate does increase the cumulative draw and speed of Creeper pull back...
Test 4 => Tried fire rate level 3/5 => Again 2 bars of zero creeper in the 4 corners at a slightly longer time 23.6 seconds...
Result Success!! Investing Aether in fire rate increases makes the Singularity creeper draw back more effective...
PS:- Game time of 1:02.6 was a new personal best... Cumulative game play errors may explain much of the 13 second difference between the Weasee gold ring challenge...
Much appreciated Thank you!!!
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on April 17, 2023, 02:25:17 AMMy question is not who made the two of you (Weasee and oldnewby), but why!
Hehe and many thanks for playing!
Why question The Universe? - Kismet? - Karma? - Fate? - Ahhhhh the list goes on...
But To be included in any list with Weasee... What Joy!!!!! What an unearned honor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BUT - Just so my sleepless hours in the middle of last night are not wasted... And while Marten Gronsdal's bag of tricks appears bottomless... I must share a story from my recent wanders through the DMD wilderness... Where I ran into something new to me...
Spoiler
See DMD Map #12242 "eazy 4u" by Willy Monka
While looking for low hanging fruit I was tempted and grasped Monka's "eazy 4u" MONKEY TRAP...
If Willy Monka's sense of humor had been evil... his monkey trap had all the elements that could have been given fangs and taken hours, even days, to solve... but having a merciful and kind heart... Monka did not abuse the fates and damage his Karma...
Do not spoil the surprise Marten... Because... Shocked does not capture my emotions when I...
Spoiler
Clicked on the "Y" key AND... THEN...
I have no idea how Willy Monka achieved what he did in DMD... Ideas????
PS:- Marten - Please advise if it is ethical for me to bring Willy Monka's map froward to Colonial Space as a unique example of map design???
Hi, I'm on hols an unable to find that map, but it can't be unethical. More maps = more fun!
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on April 17, 2023, 03:44:33 PMHi, I'm on hols an unable to find that map, but it can't be unethical. More maps = more fun!
After 20+ years since I retired - I guess every day is now a holiday...
Anyway a screenshot of the DMD map follows... with all the file details...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963875444
My old CW3 DMD played historical file no longer shows the complete map info... but this starting page is where I re-found the map name.... the name that worked just fine for me...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963876408
Likewise...
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963876408
Let me know what you think of the TRICK... If it passes muster... will make a version for Colonial Space that honors the author
Enjoy...
What does the Y key do again?
I'm not sure if i follow you on the trick idea here
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on April 18, 2023, 02:36:14 AMWhat does the Y key do again?
I'm not sure if i follow you on the trick idea here
Sorry... The "Y" key ?????... Just opens the command ship control panel at the bottom of my PC screen... Like the "E", "R", and "T" shortcut keys... Being lucky enough to be getting old... My eye sight is getting so it is hard to see and sometimes my mouse shakes too much to easily click on the tiny print on the Left Hand Side of the bottom panel...
The Trick Idea ??? - I guess I got carried away on the "Simple Little Trick" theme... But I think you enjoy finding and using them in lots of your maps and thought a potential new one might be of interest...
Anyway:-> For anyone who might be interested in experiencing my SHOCK and DISBELIEF... Just open DMD and in Online Maps type in Willy Monka and click the adjacent "Filter" button.... which will bring up map #12242... Hit "Launch Mission" and start to play that map by picking up a few of the many Artifacts of Orion low-hanging-fruit as if you are going for a quick and easy win like I was planning...
Then key "Y" and open the Command ship controls and click on any one of the AofOs and you will see the unexpected LITTLE TRICK that SHOCKED me speechless... Yep I placed my hand into Willy"s MONKEY TRAP...
While I understand what Willy did... How he managed to do it in a DMD map is beyond my understanding...
Ideas????
PS:- [As an aside - - - I sweated blood last year trying multiple ways to win Colonial Space Map #1... Until I finally stopped beating my head against the wall and thought about the times the honorable players were getting... and then looked carefully at the map... then took a leap of faith and finally - for the first time - figured out how to use Artifacts of Orion...]
And similarly... Your awesome maps are slowly forcing/helping me learn how to use - and not use - the Singularity feature...
What did Mr. Wonka do? What's the trick there?
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on April 18, 2023, 04:04:47 PMWhat did Mr. Wonka do? What's the trick there?
I think what oldnewby is referring to is the multitude of overlapping air exclusion zones - these are shown when selecting any AoO in the Orbital tab. You can also select the Guppy tool to show the zones.
There's so many, it obscures the map!
Ahh, thx
Well, I beat your time, Sir Oldnewby!
(On Willy Monkas map)
Quote from: Martin Gronsdal on April 19, 2023, 11:10:30 AMWell, I beat your time, Sir Oldnewby!
(On Willy Monkas map)
Great...!!! Delighted to add a bit of fun to our lives...!!!!
Willy tricked me fair and square... so it seemed only fair to continue on without restarting...
I have often seen an Anti-AoO exclusion zone placed to protect the Inhibitor... What I thought was a unique (new-to-me) LITTLE TRICK... was Willy somehow adding AoO exclusion zones to all of his vanilla Air Exclusion Towers...
I checked the DMD Edit Page --- And while there is an Anti-AoO Exclusion option for the Inhibitor... the Air Exclusion Towers option does not include an Anti-AoO Range setting...
What he did impressed me... How he did it baffles me...
Ideas???
UNLESS - Is it possible that all vanilla Air Exclusion Towers include the Anti-AoO feature... ???????????????????
My Bad...
Where are the emojis when I need one...
So when in doubt... Test Test Test...
DMD "Lessons Learned" test bed maps #12319 and #12320 prove that any Inhibitor with Anti-AoO activated adds that power to all vanilla Air Exclusion Towers...
AND... Deleting the Inhibitor Anti-AoO power... also removes that power from all Air Exclusion Towers... Even though clicking on/activating an AoO in the Command Ship control screen still makes the Air Exclusion zones appear even though they no longer have the power to stop the AoO from dropping...
Thanks for bearing with my folly...
Quote from: oldnewby on April 19, 2023, 03:52:19 PMI have often seen an Anti-AoO exclusion zone placed to protect the Inhibitor... What I thought was a unique (new-to-me) LITTLE TRICK... was Willy somehow adding AoO exclusion zones to all of his vanilla Air Exclusion Towers...
Are you sure? On DMD#12319 I can launch any AoO through the air exclusion zones with no problem. They don't work around the inhbitor of course.
You can make the Inhibitor have a zone of its own. That forbids AoO to land there, but not air units (I think)
Quote from: Weasee on April 19, 2023, 08:34:30 PMQuote from: oldnewby on April 19, 2023, 03:52:19 PMI have often seen an Anti-AoO exclusion zone placed to protect the Inhibitor... What I thought was a unique (new-to-me) LITTLE TRICK... was Willy somehow adding AoO exclusion zones to all of his vanilla Air Exclusion Towers...
Are you sure? On DMD#12319 I can launch any AoO through the air exclusion zones with no problem. They don't work around the inhbitor of course.
Egad...!!!! What was I thinking Sherlock...!!!! My shock seeing all those Area Denial clouds appear the instant I tapped a Command Ship AoO activation key... paralyzed my "Little Grey Cells"... into believing my action caused what was plainly there in front of my eyes... My logical facilities froze... became locked into a fantasy world where - can you believe it? - a mystical, inimical, creeper was flowing out of the unknown, threatening our world... I shudder to think what delusions I might have suffered without your intervention Sherlock...!!!!
I revisited all my tests... You and Martin are 100% right...
Willy Monka's trick fooled me... And... I continued to trick myself again and again...
Thank you again... A reminder why all research - no matter how trivial - benefits from peer review...