Since we seem to be in a quiet time waiting for CW3 to come out I have been thinking about map Ideas and strategies. Granted everything I know about the game I have gathered from watching Virgil's videos. So I may be off some, But.. here goes.
I like slug maps and am not an efficiency player so I think pushing through creeper with Shields and Terps sounds like fun. the shields push back the creeper and then raise the terrain so you can move forward. Maybe even disable the blaster and mortar tech so Strafer have to be used to thin the creeper so it doesn't overflow the raised terrain.
I am interested to hear other map thoughts based on what we know about the game.
I like speed, and efficiently using all available resources. I like using morters and sprayers to push forward quickly, using air assults and artillery to weaken the rear as I press forward. Rarely do I find myself using shields or turrps. I mainly use shields to protect my network connections in high risk areas. I think that CW3 will allow many more varients between turtle and rabbit play styles. No matter how you play, you will find a way <3
I am also excited to see maps that require the Guppies to be the life line to the CN. So I can see the CN placed in one corner on a Plateau surrounded by emitters. And the attack zone being at the opposite end of the map so you have to work your way back to the CN.
Quote from: MizInIA on April 09, 2013, 02:29:55 PM
I am also excited to see maps that require the Guppies to be the life line to the CN. So I can see the CN placed in one corner on a Plateau surrounded by emitters. And the attack zone being at the opposite end of the map so you have to work your way back to the CN.
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you? Or can you disable that in the map editor?
I'm probably going to be, shall we say... 'Industrial' in my building. First, build out and spam the area with reactors while holding the line weakly. Then, mass-produce weapons. After that, I'll probably punch a hole in a high ledge or something like V demonstrated on 'the march' and establish forward bases and stuff. After that though... cutting off digi with aircraft and just slogging through with ground infantry and terps sounds good. Will certainly try and build myself a castle on some campaign maps though. :D
Personally on CW1 maps i always liked to have a fortress on a hill to the side and have to force my way forward. :)
Based on what I have seen, I think I will focus on economical boosting fr most of the time, and strive for the regular use of heavy ordnance later on just because I have alway been a player who likes any kind of heavy ordnance. I imagine I will spend a while flattening the rough ground where collectors and reactors will go. I prefer the fortress style as well.
Quote from: hoodwink on April 09, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you?
well from what I have seen you could if there was a level place large enough. but I guess I was thinking of only having the one place large enough to land and build a guppy or 2 to head off to the far side where creeper wasn't covering so you could build the resources you would need to attack the creeper.
Quote from: MizInIA on April 10, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: hoodwink on April 09, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you?
well from what I have seen you could if there was a level place large enough. but I guess I was thinking of only having the one place large enough to land and build a guppy or 2 to head off to the far side where creeper wasn't covering so you could build the resources you would need to attack the creeper.
Well you could but when the CN is flying it can't supply packets, and it moves slowly. Your defences would have to survive alone. Although, you might be able to build a bank of energy with Guppies.
Quote from: billybob on April 10, 2013, 08:04:59 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on April 10, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: hoodwink on April 09, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you?
well from what I have seen you could if there was a level place large enough. but I guess I was thinking of only having the one place large enough to land and build a guppy or 2 to head off to the far side where creeper wasn't covering so you could build the resources you would need to attack the creeper.
Well you could but when the CN is flying it can't supply packets, and it moves slowly. Your defences would have to survive alone. Although, you might be able to build a bank of energy with Guppies.
Who told you that CN's cannot give packets on the move? Odin City and the Liberation ship have always ben able to supply packets on the move, so if that has since changed, then I am surprised.
Quote from: billybob on April 10, 2013, 08:04:59 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on April 10, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: hoodwink on April 09, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you?
well from what I have seen you could if there was a level place large enough. but I guess I was thinking of only having the one place large enough to land and build a guppy or 2 to head off to the far side where creeper wasn't covering so you could build the resources you would need to attack the creeper.
Well you could but when the CN is flying it can't supply packets, and it moves slowly. Your defences would have to survive alone. Although, you might be able to build a bank of energy with Guppies.
This has NEVER been in any blog post, or anything on the forums. This is not how it works currently either. In fact, unlike Odin City, CN's produce energy when they are flying, because they have a reactor, not a collector built in. They are also able to send out packets while in the air, so you have been very much misinformed.
Quote from: Michionlion on April 11, 2013, 11:33:48 AM
Quote from: billybob on April 10, 2013, 08:04:59 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on April 10, 2013, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: hoodwink on April 09, 2013, 04:41:59 PM
Surely you could just move the CN to a safer location, couldn't you?
well from what I have seen you could if there was a level place large enough. but I guess I was thinking of only having the one place large enough to land and build a guppy or 2 to head off to the far side where creeper wasn't covering so you could build the resources you would need to attack the creeper.
Well you could but when the CN is flying it can't supply packets, and it moves slowly. Your defences would have to survive alone. Although, you might be able to build a bank of energy with Guppies.
This has NEVER been in any blog post, or anything on the forums. This is not how it works currently either. In fact, unlike Odin City, CN's produce energy when they are flying, because they have a reactor, not a collector built in. They are also able to send out packets while in the air, so you have been very much misinformed.
we can see that it does supply packets in the last video. Virgil does a celebratory fly over while taking out the warp inhibitor on the second planet. http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2013/03/the-bulk/ (http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2013/03/the-bulk/) jump to 19:06 to see the packets coming from the CN while it is flying.
did he mean that it can't dispatch packets if its not connected to the network? if so, he is correct
Quote from: mpete on April 11, 2013, 04:35:23 PM
did he mean that it can't dispatch packets if its not connected to the network? if so, he is correct
you know that would make more sense. so for the scenario we were talking about he would be correct. if you were moving the CN from one area of the map to another across a field of creeper you would have a time where it is disconnected but hopefully not much more than it would take a Guppy to make a round trip to resupply(assuming you only had 1 Guppy supplying the outpost/main network.)if you were using multiple guppies so there was always one with packets to offload I do not think you would end up seeing any network down time.
that makes me think of a scenario for the Guppy. We have seen that when 2 or more guppies are supplying an outpost the payload is consumed from the closest Guppy. So... the closest one Guppie is drained and starts the trip back to the CN meanwhile the second is being used. The first returns with a full tank and is drained again and again heads to the CN for a fill up. the second is being used. the first returns and is again drained. the second at this point does not have enough to last the whole time the first is gone so it takes off. so here is the question. How many Guppies will it take to supply x blasters at y distance from the CN so that the blasters never run out of ammo? the blasters have an internal supply and so far we have seen 2 be sufficient even to supply power to 2 blasters and the Forge to process Ether but a longer distance may require a 3rd Guppy to keep packets. but even with that there is the chance that it will get slowly used and may end up at the point where all 3 run out of packets at almost the same time putting them all in transit.
When multiple guppies are supplying packets at the same time, they distribut them simultaneously. Thus, there would be network down time. To see that, watch the Aether clip on the blog early on when there are 2 guppies supplying packets at the same time.
Whether it was because there were too many units taking energy or too few guppies supplying it does not seem to matter. And they resupply packets from CN's faster than they give them to units, so CN's would be in short supply if there were more guppies.
P.S. Has anyone besides me noticed that the CN does not start with a full amount of energy like Odin City and the Liberation Ship? I saw it when I was watching The Bulk on the blog.
Quote from: 4xC on April 11, 2013, 05:38:40 PM
P.S. Has anyone besides me noticed that the CN does not start with a full amount of energy like Odin City and the Liberation Ship? I saw it when I was watching The Bulk on the blog.
yes, it is an interesting change from the others of the series, but i am sure it takes a great deal of energy to land safely from orbit without a parachute....
Quote from: 4xC on April 11, 2013, 05:38:40 PM
When multiple guppies are supplying packets at the same time, they distribut them simultaneously. Thus, there would be network down time. To see that, watch the Aether clip on the blog early on when there are 2 guppies supplying packets at the same time.
Whether it was because there were too many units taking energy or too few guppies supplying it does not seem to matter. And they resupply packets from CN's faster than they give them to units, so CN's would be in short supply if there were more guppies.
P.S. Has anyone besides me noticed that the CN does not start with a full amount of energy like Odin City and the Liberation Ship? I saw it when I was watching The Bulk on the blog.
I did rewatch the video. they were supplying packets to what ever was closer. it just happens that at the Forge they were being consumed from both guppies at nearly the same rate. if you watch the 3 ether generators that are connected by relays and powered by a guppy on each end. At 12:01 only the Guppy on the right is supplying packets. Soon the Left Guppy will land and begin supplying packets to the left 2 Ether generators and the Mortar. The right Guppy will only supply to the right Ether generator.
Where I first noticed the closest supply was in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l-dCtrBG64 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l-dCtrBG64) sorry I couldn't find it on the blog. At 10:50 the north west outpost has 2 Guppies and only the closest one is supplying packets until it leaves and accidentally disconnects the second. The first returns at 11:55 and starts supplying the network while the second Guppy sits with a partial tank until the first takes off again(12:37).
Maybe so, but most of the time, the 2 guppies supplying the 3 left Aether-creating totems were there at the same time and they were giving packets away simultaneously. They did supply the closest things in any case, but they did it at the same time, so therein lies the potential for a dormant long-distance network, even if the guppies come back later. That matter is partially solved by the fact that guppies can be sent to their landing destinations at different times.
I think it would be a really useful mechanic for the guppy if it had an upgrade that cost 5% less than building the original guppy. The upgrade would create a second guppy on the same line that would swap places when 2 criteria are met. 1) The guppy has emptied itself of packets and 2) the paired guppy has filled up on packets.
This is a very realistic system that doesn't change the gameplay (still essentially need to build 2 guppies) but does make the mechanics of managing your network easier.
Quote from: theogeer on April 13, 2013, 09:54:59 AM
I think it would be a really useful mechanic for the guppy if it had an upgrade that cost 5% less than building the original guppy. The upgrade would create a second guppy on the same line that would swap places when 2 criteria are met. 1) The guppy has emptied itself of packets and 2) the paired guppy has filled up on packets.
This is a very realistic system that doesn't change the gameplay (still essentially need to build 2 guppies) but does make the mechanics of managing your network easier.
I quite like that idea - obviously you can't have two guppies on the pad at the same time, but how cool would it be to have the empty one circling the pad waiting for it's turn, or the full one orbiting the landing zone waiting for the first guppy to finish unloading!
It'll never happen though - just build a second Guppy...
The user maps are gonna be awesome.
CW3 has so many more ways of playing than either of it's forerunners so map makers will push the limits, think outside of the box and create maps that force us to play within certain parameters - using tactics and units that we ordinarily wouldn't choose.
The Guppy is a powerful unit and it's usefulness is only just becoming apparent.
It can supply isolated weapons with ammo, build remote structures, help out a beleaguered base and act as a forward base 'supply truck', dramatically shortening supply lines and speeding up builds and ammo resupply.
Again, I see the custom maps as a place to really experiment with the possibilities.
Quote from: Cavemaniac on April 13, 2013, 03:41:00 PM
I quite like that idea - obviously you can't have two guppies on the pad at the same time, but how cool would it be to have the empty one circling the pad waiting for it's turn, or the full one orbiting the landing zone waiting for the first guppy to finish unloading!
It'll never happen though - just build a second Guppy...
Besdes, one of the oldest features about CW3 that ough to easily compensate for this is the map's large size compared to what we had to work with before. There is almost too much room for spare weapons, flight pads, reactors, berthas, etc. So while it is a good meringue to top the lemon pie, it is too sweet. ;D
I wasn't thinking of it so much as to replace having a second place for the second guppy. I was thinking of the mechanic of having to time your guppy runs manually to ensure constant supply. If the guppies are on the same schedule and they both feed packets at the same time to the same units (as suggested by the prior posts on this thread) then they will both run out at the same time and both need to come back at the same time, leaving a shortfall in their wake.
With a two-guppie, one-track system you don't have to worry about this, and it is similar to how a person would design a supply system in the real world. Truck comes in and fills up from warehouse then drives to destination. The warehouse isn't tied to just one truck. There is still an advantage for multiple warehouses as truck count increases because you will need to be able to fill multiple trucks simultaneously.
But I agree, not really vital to gameplay. I just think it's a cool mechanic that reduces friction.
Quote from: theogeer on April 14, 2013, 03:49:14 AM
I wasn't thinking of it so much as to replace having a second place for the second guppy. I was thinking of the mechanic of having to time your guppy runs manually to ensure constant supply. If the guppies are on the same schedule and they both feed packets at the same time to the same units (as suggested by the prior posts on this thread) then they will both run out at the same time and both need to come back at the same time, leaving a shortfall in their wake.
With a two-guppie, one-track system you don't have to worry about this, and it is similar to how a person would design a supply system in the real world. Truck comes in and fills up from warehouse then drives to destination. The warehouse isn't tied to just one truck. There is still an advantage for multiple warehouses as truck count increases because you will need to be able to fill multiple trucks simultaneously.
But I agree, not really vital to gameplay. I just think it's a cool mechanic that reduces friction.
When you put it that way, you make a pretty interesting, exploitable idea for a CRPL script. (Unless it is CPRL, I am now forgetting the acronym order)
Quote from: 4xC on April 15, 2013, 08:46:51 AM
Quote from: theogeer on April 14, 2013, 03:49:14 AM
I wasn't thinking of it so much as to replace having a second place for the second guppy. I was thinking of the mechanic of having to time your guppy runs manually to ensure constant supply. If the guppies are on the same schedule and they both feed packets at the same time to the same units (as suggested by the prior posts on this thread) then they will both run out at the same time and both need to come back at the same time, leaving a shortfall in their wake.
With a two-guppie, one-track system you don't have to worry about this, and it is similar to how a person would design a supply system in the real world. Truck comes in and fills up from warehouse then drives to destination. The warehouse isn't tied to just one truck. There is still an advantage for multiple warehouses as truck count increases because you will need to be able to fill multiple trucks simultaneously.
But I agree, not really vital to gameplay. I just think it's a cool mechanic that reduces friction.
When you put it that way, you make a pretty interesting, exploitable idea for a CRPL script. (Unless it is CPRL, I am now forgetting the acronym order)
Creeper
Reverse
Polish
Language.
Quote from: Cavemaniac on April 13, 2013, 03:48:18 PM
The user maps are gonna be awesome.
CW3 has so many more ways of playing than either of it's forerunners so map makers will push the limits, think outside of the box and create maps that force us to play within certain parameters - using tactics and units that we ordinarily wouldn't choose.
The Guppy is a powerful unit and it's usefulness is only just becoming apparent.
It can supply isolated weapons with ammo, build remote structures, help out a beleaguered base and act as a forward base 'supply truck', dramatically shortening supply lines and speeding up builds and ammo resupply.
Again, I see the custom maps as a place to really experiment with the possibilities.
I agree user maps will have the potential for so many twists. it is really a good thing that the map maker has to be able to beat the map before it can be submitted.
I had been considering a CRPL random map generator, however after this weeks blog I doubt any CRPL could beat what he built for us. I look forward to competitions from CW3 "code" maps.
I'm thinking of recreating Hope, accurate pixel by pixel, does anyone know if there will be walls/crazonium in CW3?
there has been since dungeon novice...
I have an island map idea that I've already sketched out on paper and I am looking forward to putting it into the game.
I just now thought, since there are CW1 temporary shield walls, what about those walls that block network connections like levels 3 and 4 on part 2 of CW1 User Space?
If those can be included, I think I will be able to more easily layout this idea I have for a castle fortress map.
That reminds me, assuming it does not exist right now, perhaps the map making software in CW3 should allow editors to prioritize the targeting for Spore Towers seeing as you can obviously edit the Spore payload, launch time intervals, presumably the bloom rate, etc.
That is something I have always wanted to do with Phantoms in the CW2 map editor admittedly.
Quote from: 4xC on April 29, 2013, 08:48:02 AM
That reminds me, assuming it does not exist right now, perhaps the map making software in CW3 should allow editors to prioritize the targeting for Spore Towers seeing as you can obviously edit the Spore payload, launch time intervals, presumably the bloom rate, etc.
That is something I have always wanted to do with Phantoms in the CW2 map editor admittedly.
With CRPL, you can decide where the spore will land. You can choose a random unit, unit closest/furthest from a point (and the range), or a random cell on the map. You can also write a piece of code that changes the interval every time. If you don't want to write CRPL, ask somebody else who can write it for you (and probably many others).