Just for the fun of it I thought we could have a topic where we can just spout the random suggestions that we have for different Titan units, even if they will not be used. It is just to see some of the fun ideas that people have.
My first idea is this
Titan: Big Blast
It would be a high powered laser that the player could place a line across the map, similar to the attack vectors for the Bombers or Strafers, then the titan would just shoot a high powered beam across that area.
Then the titan would need quite a few packets to power up again and it would have a 'cool down time' of something like 2-3 minutes. then you could use it again.
It would be useful if you have something like a trench that you made that was full of very dense creeper and you wanted to kill a lot at a time.
I look forward to seeing other titan ideas! :)
Also i would like for people to not put down other people's ideas, this is just for fun, you could also give nice and thoughtful ideas on how they could improve upon their ideas.
I'm still holding out for an orbital kinetic weapon.
Something that drops rocks on your choice of creeper.
Ideally something that modifies the landscape - like a Bertha with a sore head, impacting the creeper and topography alike, punching a crater in the ground that thins out the creeper and potentially your front line units too if you're daft enough to call it down close to your front line.
A slow rate of fire is fine (takes time to capture those rocks), as is a small inaccuracy in where it lands.
This could help in so many ways - you could punch holes in the ground to slow creeper advance, you could just punch holes in the creeper, Bertha style, without the long start up delay and massive energy cost.
It may or may not be available on a particular map, the rate of fire may be faster or slower, the size of the impact may vary due to availability of asteroids in the solar system - and the whim of the map author.
Of course, I could simply be describing another function of the 'Orbital' tab - and we still have room for this AND another Titan..!
Cavemaniac, that sounds great!
I like the idea of altering the landscape. Could make for some interesting gameplay.
The Ultimate Orbital Weapon (http://strikefighterconsultinginc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/DeathStarFiring2.jpg). Why leave orbit anyway? I was just busy having lunch.... ;)
I say we just take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...
Orbital nullifiers.
EDIT: Nullifier bombers, too.
I want the Titan Mole. You arm it and then it digs under the terrain and comes up under the creeper and blows it all up!
Conversion Sentry: able to target creeper in an area and/or line and convert all of it into AC.
If not conversion, then:
Beam Sentry: it will have the power to harm enemy structures with a constant beam. Whether creeper in the way gets harmed remains unknown until further discussion.
Ninja Creeper Converter: This unit can cloak itself in a shield of invisibility. It charges up to a tremendous amount of energy. THen it cloaks itself. Once the shield expires, it then uses all the energy to convert surrounding creeper into anti-creeper. It then sucks up all the anti-creeper and creates a packet bomb that it send into orbit for the orbiting ship to drop on another, random planet.
I've been reading Peter F Hamilton.
He frequently uses mixed ordinance in his stories.
In one shootout, the guards had machine guns loaded with kinetic rounds, explosive, neuro-toxin, and electronic warfare rounds etc which were fired in turn, in the hope of defeating whatever amour/shield their target was using.
Now imagine a Titan, mobile, like a PC (but slow, huge and lumbering so it's not a super death-ray), with the fire rate of a PC on a PZ but alternating kinetic (PC), explosive (mortar), AC (sprayer/bomber) and conversion rounds (actually, I really would like to see a return of the Conversion Bomb - it was my favourite CW2 unit!).
the Chaser
Built out of destroyed runners and reprogrammed to destroy what it once was. This unit is different than most units because it can move and live on creeper as long as it is can repair it self.
Runners where never designed to live off digitalis but when the humans built the chaser they needed it to work both on and off of digitalis. Unable to overcome the problem totally they slowed down the death of the unit but in doing so the chaser is constantly breaking down (losing health) no matter where it is.
This unit once built will chase after runners and destroy them using the parts of the runners to rebuild itself (restore health). The bigger the runner the the more health is restored (more parts to use). The chaser will loose health if it does not have a steady supply of runners no matter if it is on creeper or not. You can however recall the chaser and connect it back to your network before it dies. If connected to your network it must have a steady supply of AC and/or energy to keep rebuilding itself but be warned it takes a lot to keep this this beast going.
Landing pad: orbital stuff
Low cost (maybe 50?), sends a guppys-like unit to power whatever the orbital weapon is, can also send up a unit/a few bombs worth of AC to have it fall elsewhere on the map, doing ~2 mortar shells of damage to creeper.
Tesla Field
Low energy build cost; very high energy use cost; does small damage to all creeper (and maybe AC too) in a medium range at once.
This could be useful when you want to clear a pool suddenly, or when you've got lots of energy but not much space for units.
I would like to see the weapons like the dark beam and conversion bomb left out. They always feel like cheating.
Quote from: koker93 on February 27, 2013, 06:48:43 PM
I would like to see the weapons like the dark beam and conversion bomb left out. They always feel like cheating.
Dark beam: I am beginning to agree on.
Conversion Bomb: I cannot see as cheating since their fastest speed is still very slow and their range cannot be upgraded.
Riddle me this: do you consider the bertha cheating since its range is infinite?
Thor and the Dark Beam indeed are too powerful to include on most maps (and I think the conversion bomb is an edge case, depending on the intensities of the emitters on the map).
I can however assure you that the CW3 titans (so far) are not like that (which is a good thing to me, because it means all units can be included on most maps).
Anything absolute always feels cheat-y to me. Dark bean, if you could power it, ended just about any game. C-bombs were powerful, but situational. There were many situations in which they were not worth while, above and beyond 'I can't afford them'.
I never thought C-Bombs felt too cheat-y to me. They were very expensive and only really effective in maps where there was ridiculous amounts of creeper which there was in the final map.
The conversion bomb wouldn't be bad if it had a max conversion amount.
As soon as Virgil makes me a beta tester and I can try out the bertha ill let you know :)
But no, because it does not destroy everything in its path instantly.
Quote from: Chawe800 on February 28, 2013, 06:41:08 PM
I never thought C-Bombs felt too cheat-y to me. They were very expensive and only really effective in maps where there was ridiculous amounts of creeper which there was in the final map.
I'm not saying C-bombs feel cheat-y to me, not at all, quite the opposite. Because they're situational, their extreme potential is merely a case of right tool, right job.
Dark beams on the other hand, if you could power them, jusst plain ended the level.
Quote from: lurkily on March 01, 2013, 02:35:41 PM
Dark beams on the other hand, if you could power them, jusst plain ended the level.
I fail to see a problem with that.
They were simply uninteresting to me. Effective, sure, but making them work simply required a bunch of power and then slowcrawling through the level with mirrors. They were not subtle tools.
That is why they felt cheat-y to me. They are absolute, they were all-powerful. They were an "I win" button. As I posted before, it's things that are absolute that feel Cheat-y to me. They breed in me a disinterest born from absolute power, just like IDDQD did.
However, I wasn't trying to make a case against dark beams. I was trying to make a case for C-bombs. C-bombs can be extremely effective, or extremely useless, based on the circumstances. Due to their situational nature, and the requirement that they be used tactically and intelligently in order to make progress with them, I don't get the same vibe from them.
So, how would we go about delivering them?
The most obvious choice (not necessarily best, just easiest to think of) is a superbomber of some sort, drive over the target and drop the conversion bomb. Not sure why you'd want to use a Bertha if one of these was available, asides from economy choices (amount of energy/AC per shot, etc) as the Bertha destroys a bunch of Creeper, while the conversion bomb converts a bunch of creeper ("destroying" it and then neutralizing a bunch of the surrounding Creeper as well), so I'm thinking this is not an interesting option.
Another option is something like a demolition charge/nullifier approach. You'd force a beachhead into Creeper territory, stabilize it long enough to build a Conversion Bomb, which then detonates and converts all the Creeper within it's radius into AC. The Conversion Bomb would be an immobile detonating structure like the Nullifier.
My preference? Build them nullifier-style, charge them up, fire them manually. (Or detonate at their own cell automatically when overrun.) This requires you to advance to, fight for, and hold a location for the build time, and doesn't allow them free reign over the entire map. It also requires tactical use, since terrain will be important in both protecting them and in getting lots of creep into their firing range.
I'd have them fire like nullifiers, and convert creeper in a radius around the impact point, so that their immobility didn't become too crippling a weakness - they would also benefit from range buffs, for late-game usefulness.
Of course, the usefulness of a C-bomb is limited in CW3, where creeper does not get pent up into high-pressure regions easily.
The main reason the C-bomb is the least overpowered super weapon (compared to Thor and the DB), is its slow movement speed. Because of that you often couldn't get it exactly where you wanted it to detonate.
When it would be dropped by a bomber or fired by a Bertha, you would take away its only limiting factor. Not a good idea as far as I'm concerned. Not a big fan of reintroducing the C-bomb anyway....
Yeah, I'm not sure reintroducing it is a great idea either, I'm just trying to mull over HOW it could be reintroduced.
Strategies for deploying these would be very different than your usual strat for pushing an area. You don't actually want to reduce the Creeper in the target area (likely a bowl or other area of high Creeper concentration) as all the Creeper you spend time destroying would mean less Anticreeper you end up producing. I imagine a shield chain running into the middle of the target area with some serious power costs.
Hm. Actually, this might lead to some interesting strategies for Ore-less maps, as you could detonate the Conversion Bomb and then have a bunch of Sprayers collecting the resultant AC, providing you with an energy-to-AC conversion mechanism, somewhat similar in role to the Economic titan discussed in the other thread.
Takes me back to those ideas for creeper-to-AC factories . . . mmmmm . . . which leads me to a thought for a CRPL based map.
The main reason I brought up the experimentals from CW2 is that they never felt balanced to me. As soon as you had enough reserve power to build one the level was over. You no longer had to fight back the creeper. The DB for instance in order to be balanced should require 2-3 times the ammo it consumes. It also was frustrating to me to play a level where it was a lot of fun to fight in to the level to the spot where the DB tech was only to have the next room filled with an amount of creeper that meant you HAD to use it, or get overrun. Once that happened energy usage/strategy typically got a LOT lower/easier. Making the last few rooms just padding on the time it takes to finish the level, not more challenge.
So, we've decided for definite that the titans in CW3 MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT be overpowered like the Dark Beam from CW2, right?:D
Does anyone think that Virgil has probably got a good titan idea anyway by now, and that we should probably just wait and see?
Or should we just bounce around ideas anyway?
The point of this thread is to release all of your fantastical ideas even if Virgil has his titans all picked out. So go ahead give it a shot. :D
Thor, C-bomb, and DB are all strong as a titan unit should be but they also all have their weakness. I don't really want to see any of them as titans in CW3 but not because they are "overpowered" but because I want to see CW3, not CW1 or CW2 called CW3.
I am sure you could just sit back and terraform an area and build berthas all over the place on some maps. http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/10/big-bertha/ (http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/10/big-bertha/) Would that mean the bertha is overpowered? I think in a way bertha is stronger than thor but in another it is weaker.
As always it is going to be up to the map maker to make a good map.
Some other titan ideas:
poison plopper - oh no that digitalis looks brown what happened? This unit infects digitalis somehow. Any runners that pass over the brown area lose health fast and bust dumping their payload that has been converted into AC. Able to hit at long range like bertha. To bad the digitalis can heal itself.
super stunner - able to stun anything even a moving CRPL but only for a short time. Wish it had a larger range.
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
Thor, C-bomb, and DB are all strong as a titan unit should be but they also all have their weakness. I don't really want to see any of them as titans in CW3 but not because they are "overpowered" but because I want to see CW3, not CW1 or CW2 called CW3.
Agreed!
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
I am sure you could just sit back and terraform an area and build berthas all over the place on some maps. http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/10/big-bertha/ (http://knucklecracker.com/blog/index.php/2012/10/big-bertha/) Would that mean the bertha is overpowered? I think in a way bertha is stronger than thor but in another it is weaker.
Yes, they all sure had their weakness (high building/maintenance cost, low health for the DB, slow speed for the CB), but most of the time the challenge was gone at the moment you had build them and was able to operate them. Thor was the worst, because it didn't even need energy to operate.
As a result they are not used in many maps. I think it would be nice if we had titans that can be included in almost any map without unbalancing the game. You will never be able to beat a map with just Terps and Bertha's, because their fire rate is far too low. You have a good chance of surviving though! ;)
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
As always it is going to be up to the map maker to make a good map.
Absolutely true.
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
poison plopper - oh no that digitalis looks brown what happened? This unit infects digitalis somehow. Any runners that pass over the brown area lose health fast and bust dumping their payload that has been converted into AC. Able to hit at long range like bertha. To bad the digitalis can heal itself.
I like it! Can infected Runners that haven't died yet infact other Runners?
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
super stunner - able to stun anything even a moving CRPL but only for a short time. Wish it had a larger range.
Anything? Even the Creeper itself?
Quote from: koker93 on March 03, 2013, 03:38:16 PMThe DB for instance in order to be balanced should require 2-3 times the ammo it consumes.
That may balance it, but it still wouldn't be interesting to me. :/
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 04, 2013, 05:39:26 AM
You will never be able to beat a map with just Terps and Bertha's
We will see ;D
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 04, 2013, 05:39:26 AM
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
poison plopper - oh no that digitalis looks brown what happened? This unit infects digitalis somehow. Any runners that pass over the brown area lose health fast and bust dumping their payload that has been converted into AC. Able to hit at long range like bertha. To bad the digitalis can heal itself.
I like it! Can infected Runners that haven't died yet infact other Runners?
I doubt it, from what I can tell runners have nothing to do with each other once they are born.
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 04, 2013, 05:39:26 AM
Quote from: blank on March 04, 2013, 03:45:51 AM
super stunner - able to stun anything even a moving CRPL but only for a short time. Wish it had a larger range.
Anything? Even the Creeper itself?
The super stunner can stun even creeper but in testing found out this was a job better left to shields so they have been hard wired
not to stun creeper. The problem with stunned creeper was similar to turning off a shield at the worst time possible.
Quote from: blank on March 05, 2013, 01:33:23 AM
We will see ;D
Play
this map (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=104) to prepare yourself. :P I enjoyed this unconventional early CW1 map a lot, but keep in mind there's a huge difference in fire rate between mortars and Bertha's.
Quote from: blank on March 05, 2013, 01:33:23 AM
I doubt it, from what I can tell runners have nothing to do with each other once they are born.
They're family, right? They should share the good and the bad things. ;)
Quote from: blank on March 05, 2013, 01:33:23 AM
The super stunner can stun even creeper but in testing found out this was a job better left to shields so they have been hard wired not to stun creeper. The problem with stunned creeper was similar to turning off a shield at the worst time possible.
You sound like Virgil. I guess you wrote a CW3 alpha simulator? ;D Anyway, you made a wise choice. It will be a very useful unit nonetheless with all those CRPL-cores moving around the map.
The virgil: Creator and Destroyer
"And so I become death, destroyer of worlds" (ring a bell from another game :))
That or hindu scripture, yeah.
A titan shield-type structure might be interesting. Not necessarily a spherical shield, but one that could be projected to a location or maybe in a direction; allow the user to plant a point or line like you'd do with a Strafer/Bomber and shield an area (at significant energy cost) along there.
Microwave Cannon with Orbital Mirror - Designate a target area, pump packets continuously into the ground emitter, fire a beam into orbit and reflect it back off the mirror, and the target area has continuous creeper reduction. Unfortunately, this also disrupts/cooks anticreeper, and does nothing to digitalis, but it can clean up your target area pretty well :)
Quote from: Shrike30 on March 06, 2013, 12:58:20 PM
Microwave Cannon with Orbital Mirror - Designate a target area, pump packets continuously into the ground emitter, fire a beam into orbit and reflect it back off the mirror, and the target area has continuous creeper reduction. Unfortunately, this also disrupts/cooks anticreeper, and does nothing to digitalis, but it can clean up your target area pretty well :)
I like this. A continuous AOE weapon is what we seem need. Either that or giant space mirrors are too amazing. :D
Quote from: Shrike30 on March 06, 2013, 12:58:20 PMMicrowave Cannon with Orbital Mirror - Designate a target area, pump packets continuously into the ground emitter, fire a beam into orbit and reflect it back off the mirror, and the target area has continuous creeper reduction. Unfortunately, this also disrupts/cooks anticreeper, and does nothing to digitalis, but it can clean up your target area pretty well :)
I remember this one - this is similar to the suggestion for transiting dark beams into a 3D topographical environment, while limiting their power enough to be interesting. I still like this one.
EDIT: I still like the idea of assigning them vectors, though, like bombers, and having them periodically sweep the area, instead of turning the area into a creep sink, like you poked a hole in the bottom of the map or something.
This can easily be achieved by a combination of the current two Titans.
The issue with the titan described above is that in CW2 the DB gave passage and created a barrier. A beam from space is point-based. Given that it is powerful, there isn't much creeper to reduce over an extended period of time.
That does give us some insight as to what the Singularity Weapon feature of the Aether Forge might do, unless you're referring to a completely different titan.
I think he was referring to Berthas with a number of firing rate upgrades (i.e. the Aether Forge). You could target a number of Berthas on the same spot, manually, couldn't you?
Just so that this post remains on topic I'll repost the Wind Generator idea. I am still hoping for that one.
I'm not sure the Bertha would benefit from firing rate upgrades, actually. The PCs have a magazine that they draw from, which can fire a couple dozen shots without a refill; a firing rate upgrade drains that magazine faster, but the PC doesn't seem to request packets more often. The Bertha empties it's entire magazine (one shot) and then has to receive an entire magazine's worth of packets before it can fire again. In order for it to benefit from a firing rate upgrade, it would seem like the Bertha would need to get packets sent to it at a higher rate than baseline.
The Singularity Weapon feature of the Aether Forge seen in "Aether" is intriguing to me, as it has a percentage slider (for what? we can only guess!) and seems to use Aether as ammunition, implying that it is quite powerful as you must power several buildings to use it.
Okay. Then it's the packet speed upgrade.
My guess regarding the percentage slider is that it regulates how much of the Aether the forge is receiving is transformed to upgrade points and how much is used for charging the singularity weapon. But it's just a guess, really.
The packet speed upgrade seems to effect how quickly packets travel over the network, not the rate at which they're sent to the requesting structure. For it to make intuitive sense, I think the ROF upgrade would have to increase the frequency with which packets were sent to the Bertha (or reduce the cost of firing the Bertha, which would make them less of a drain on the economy in the process; unsure if that's an intended benefit). Or simply let the Bertha not benefit from the upgrade.
Another guess regarding the percentage slider is the percentage of max power the singularity weapon is fired at, maybe allowing for less effective but more rapid/less expensive uses of the weapon. One more thing to look forwards to learning about when the game is out :)
The Hurricane
The Hurricane is ground unit. The Hurricane would work similar to mortar. It would have a bay of four explosive Martyrs. The Hurricane itself would have a basic attack for defense purposes, but it could destroy a lot of creeper by firing its four Martyrs. The Martyrs would take time to recharge, making the Hurricane less of a game ender, but a very effective raider. Hurricane could be used to launch quick assaults to soften up creeper a little bit, before your units move in. The Hurricane would be quick and deadly, but have relatively low recharge time, Hurricanes would have a vs. digitalis attack bonus however, balancing out its weaknesses.
This is an idea I got for a different kind of Bertha.
The bertha has a different color scheme, and inside you find a scroll bar with Effect A (a placeholder name)on the left and Effect B on the right.
Effect A is the amount of energy going into the area of the shot (the radius of effect, like the Bertha's shot)
Effect B is the amount of energy distributed per pixel (or some area unit) in the radius of the shot.
Effect A is on the left side, and Effect B is on the right.
If you move the slider, it divides the 100% into 2. Default values might be 50-50.
You can adjust it from being able to destroy a wide plain of creeper to nuking a deep pool of creeper.
Quote from: Kingo on May 11, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
This is an idea I got for a different kind of Bertha.
The bertha has a different color scheme, and inside you find a scroll bar with Effect A (a placeholder name)on the left and Effect B on the right.
Effect A is the amount of energy going into the area of the shot (the radius of effect, like the Bertha's shot)
Effect B is the amount of energy distributed per pixel (or some area unit) in the radius of the shot.
Effect A is on the left side, and Effect B is on the right.
If you move the slider, it divides the 100% into 2. Default values might be 50-50.
You can adjust it from being able to destroy a wide plain of creeper to nuking a deep pool of creeper.
This is a great idea. good mechanics.
So this would be like bertha expect that you may adjust it to suit your current needs? Sounds like replicating bertha. Also would make bertha useless.
Quote from: allu on May 11, 2013, 02:51:21 PM
So this would be like bertha expect that you may adjust it to suit your current needs? Sounds like replicating bertha. Also would make bertha useless.
Of course there would have to be adjustments so it has its costs and benefits, and the bertha isn't ignored.
It might eat more energy up but recharge more quickly. Energy costs could be calculated based on the values of the effects.
Wouldn't it make more sense if this was an addition to the Bertha rather than a new unit?
Quote from: Ronini on May 11, 2013, 05:45:05 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense if this was an addition to the Bertha rather than a new unit?
Would be a great add-on.
I would suggest being able to upgrade buildings like in tower-defense games, except that its far too ahead in the game production to add this in.
Or maybe not...
Quote from: Kingo on May 11, 2013, 11:11:06 PM
I would suggest being able to upgrade buildings like in tower-defense games, except that its far too ahead in the game production to add this in.
Or maybe not...
I assumed Virgil intentionally excluded this type of mechanic from the games. It's an easy mechanic to implement and very understood, but I've always had the feeling that it's sort of overused. It seems to be a lazy fix to balancing problems.
"Oh, this unit is too strong? make the upgrade X% more expensive"
It works well to help balance but I think it makes for a game where your upgrade path is too consistently determined and your strategy becomes boring. I like the across-the-board upgrades that CW has used traditionally. Upgrade blasters and all blasters get the upgrade. etc. The upgrade path is easier (but not inexpensive). It also makes for smoother gameplay cause you don't have to micromanage units (did I upgrade that tower yet? Can I afford to upgrade it?)
It is easier (on the player) to keep track of per-unit upgrades if the units are stationary. With the large numbers of units on a CW3 map, it becomes impractical to track and manage per-unit upgrades.
I think this is implemented in some games,
But it would be simple if all units were upgraded when a person clicked a button.
That's basically the current mechanism, there just aren't tower specific upgrades (flamethrower blasters, anyone?). I'm not seeing a strong need.
Quote from: Grauniad on May 13, 2013, 10:24:01 AM
It is easier (on the player) to keep track of per-unit upgrades if the units are stationary. With the large numbers of units on a CW3 map, it becomes impractical to track and manage per-unit upgrades.
I agree.
If I had to micro-manage upgrading my units on top of moving them around I would be on the pause screen for to long.
*insert cleaver name here* - this would be able to move power zones that would require massive amounts of energy to do so. Basically you build it where you want and then it moves the closest power zone. After it is completed it can be moved and started up again.
Might be to late to make a suggestion but maybe someone can do this with CRPL?
Quote from: billybob on May 27, 2013, 03:40:43 PM
*insert cleaver name here* - this would be able to move power zones that would require massive amounts of energy to do so. Basically you build it where you want and then it moves the closest power zone. After it is completed it can be moved and started up again.
Might be to late to make a suggestion but maybe someone can do this with CRPL?
Doable, just requires some work to make it easy for the player.
G.E.V. platform.
Big enough to carry a single regular unit. Enough battery to power it for a [short] time. Enough maneuverability so that it could handle very minor terrain differences/changes.
Could it 'slide' over creeper? Maybe. Until it runs out of power. How fast would it be? Pretty slow.
There are times when you just want to push forward a little bit. The slow forward offensive. I can imagine this may be especially true for maps with air cover.
Quote from: kwerle on June 03, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
G.E.V. platform.
Big enough to carry a single regular unit. Enough battery to power it for a [short] time. Enough maneuverability so that it could handle very minor terrain differences/changes.
Could it 'slide' over creeper? Maybe. Until it runs out of power. How fast would it be? Pretty slow.
There are times when you just want to push forward a little bit. The slow forward offensive. I can imagine this may be especially true for maps with air cover.
i don't get the point. "regular" units can move on their own and have their own energy/ammo reserve. unless you meant that it could let the unit "hover" over the creeper and fire without the "regular" unit taking damage until the G.E.V. ran out of power. this could also be accomplished by cycling a fleet of "regular" units into and out of the hot zone as they run out of ammo and take damage.
Quote from: MizInIA on June 03, 2013, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: kwerle on June 03, 2013, 11:08:03 AM
G.E.V. platform.
Big enough to carry a single regular unit. Enough battery to power it for a [short] time. Enough maneuverability so that it could handle very minor terrain differences/changes.
Could it 'slide' over creeper? Maybe. Until it runs out of power. How fast would it be? Pretty slow.
There are times when you just want to push forward a little bit. The slow forward offensive. I can imagine this may be especially true for maps with air cover.
i don't get the point. "regular" units can move on their own and have their own energy/ammo reserve. unless you meant that it could let the unit "hover" over the creeper and fire without the "regular" unit taking damage until the G.E.V. ran out of power. this could also be accomplished by cycling a fleet of "regular" units into and out of the hot zone as they run out of ammo and take damage.
I think the idea was to have the unit firing while moving. Ultimately not that useful. In comparison to other method, such as stated above, that is.
Quote from: Ronini on June 03, 2013, 12:53:30 PM
I think the idea was to have the unit firing while moving. Ultimately not that useful. In comparison to other method, such as stated above, that is.
I think you are right.
I have thought at times that it would be nice if the ground forces could fire while moving (especially in CW2 since the packets are wireless) but it would really only be useful as long as the weapon is connected to the grid(CW1 & 3) since it would then be out of ammo when it reaches it's destination.
An example is when you are low on energy and don't have enough(perceived) to support more blasters. if the blaster you have at the front could keep firing while creeping forward then the collector that is just at the edge of the creeper would not get overrun while the blaster is moving.
the HYENA [High Yield ENtropic Armament]
launches a charge that explodes on contact, doing several things:
-Terraforms all terrain within the radius to a level proportionate to the distance from the blast as well as the distance from the mean terrain height.
-similarly multiplies the rate of creeper dissipation proportionate to the distance from the blast
-erases all digitalis in the area
-kills all runners in the area [no explosions?]
-spores above the area deleted
-all player units in the area are destroyed
-all resources in the area are destroyed
-could create a lasting Entropic Field, damaging all units that pass through it
-could erase power zones in the area too
This would obviously have to have a small range, and would need a lot of energy to charge up.
As a balancing measure, the shot itself could destroy the HYENA with it too, or disrupt connections/weapons fire/etc, or it could require a power zone to operate, consuming the power zone when it fires
Liking the HYENA.
Could be an Artifact of Odin class weapon (H).
So basically a nuke?
That would make it fit even more into the AoO class:
Earlier civilization...
faced with a massive threat...
desperate...
Nuke it!
Looks like the plot of nearly every science fiction movie since Godzilla.
Quote from: Sushiman118 on June 03, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
the HYENA [High Yield ENtropic Armament]
launches a charge that explodes on contact, doing several things:
-Terraforms all terrain within the radius to a level proportionate to the distance from the blast as well as the distance from the mean terrain height.
-similarly multiplies the rate of creeper dissipation proportionate to the distance from the blast
-erases all digitalis in the area
-kills all runners in the area [no explosions?]
-spores above the area deleted
-all player units in the area are destroyed
-all resources in the area are destroyed
-could create a lasting Entropic Field, damaging all units that pass through it
-could erase power zones in the area too
This would obviously have to have a small range, and would need a lot of energy to charge up.
As a balancing measure, the shot itself could destroy the HYENA with it too, or disrupt connections/weapons fire/etc, or it could require a power zone to operate, consuming the power zone when it fires
So basically... it creates a dead zone?
I would like the option to use this. Would make for some interesting choice-based custom maps...
Do you struggle to take the high ground, or do you just nuke it and turn it into a dead zone and move on?
My only suggestion is for it to be able to destroy creeper.
Add in a temporary stun for enemy towers and its a deal....
Quote from: Kingo on June 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM
My only suggestion is for it to be able to destroy creeper.
Nah, I prefer the idea of PUSHING the creeper in an outward explosion. Adds an element of risk to the detonation, in that it may force a bunch of creeper into otherwise "safe" areas.
Pushing the creeper wouldn't be helpful. :-\
I know if it just pushed the creeper i wouldn't use it.
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on June 04, 2013, 05:26:09 PM
Pushing the creeper wouldn't be helpful. :-\
I know if it just pushed the creeper i wouldn't use it.
Maybe have two radii? Inner radii kills creeper, outer radii pushes it HARD. Also would mean that the area would be clear for a bit...
Quote from: BGMFH on June 04, 2013, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on June 04, 2013, 05:26:09 PM
Pushing the creeper wouldn't be helpful. :-\
I know if it just pushed the creeper i wouldn't use it.
Maybe have two radii? Inner radii kills creeper, outer radii pushes it HARD. Also would mean that the area would be clear for a bit...
Right now creeper flows based on topography/gravity and specific forces acting upon it (like wind currents, Creeper Fields etc.) right?
Does the Creeper world engine have a concept of velocity/momentum built in to its physics engine?
If not coding the idea of a push might be tricky. I suppose if wind is still in the game one could create several super-high power currents to force the creeper out and then reduce the strength of those currents steadily to 0. That would approximate momentum without coding it.
Quote from: theogeer on June 05, 2013, 12:04:27 AM
Quote from: BGMFH on June 04, 2013, 11:37:15 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on June 04, 2013, 05:26:09 PM
Pushing the creeper wouldn't be helpful. :-\
I know if it just pushed the creeper i wouldn't use it.
Maybe have two radii? Inner radii kills creeper, outer radii pushes it HARD. Also would mean that the area would be clear for a bit...
Right now creeper flows based on topography/gravity and specific forces acting upon it (like wind currents, Creeper Fields etc.) right?
Does the Creeper world engine have a concept of velocity/momentum built in to its physics engine?
If not coding the idea of a push might be tricky. I suppose if wind is still in the game one could create several super-high power currents to force the creeper out and then reduce the strength of those currents steadily to 0. That would approximate momentum without coding it.
Shields. Watch 'The march'.
The code for 'pushing' of creeper is already there and used, as is 'pulling' the creeper.
Quote from: hoodwink on June 05, 2013, 09:57:00 AM
Shields. Watch 'The march'.
The code for 'pushing' of creeper is already there and used, as is 'pulling' the creeper.
Sweet. I forgot about the shields.
AC Digital Network:
A titan unit that creates friendly digitals and runners. The player paints the area s/he wants to be filled with AC digitals. It works like a normal emitter and creates digitals at the same rate. It also makes runners to roam on the digitals. They shoot at creeper with beams, but are extremely weak. The player gets to pick how many runners there are. The unit doesn't create an AC, but requests an amount of AC proportional to the amount of AC digitals. It requests energy proportional to the number of runners. If it can't get energy, the runners die, and if it can't get AC the digitals die. It would take a big amount of energy and AC.
I think it's an excellent idea!
My only suggestions would be for an aircraft to drop it from orbit (sorta like a carpet bomb, because lets face it, everything is better with carpet bombs!) and one must build towers to expand the digitalis out, like a good-old fashioned phalanx formation.
Quote from: Kingo on June 03, 2013, 09:04:48 PM
Quote from: Sushiman118 on June 03, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
the HYENA [High Yield ENtropic Armament]
[text]
So basically... it creates a dead zone?
I would like the option to use this. Would make for some interesting choice-based custom maps...
Do you struggle to take the high ground, or do you just nuke it and turn it into a dead zone and move on?
My only suggestion is for it to be able to destroy creeper.
It basically creates an area of high entropy [chaos]
My idea would be a cosmic bombardment caller(i dont have a good name for it), but it basically would be charged with a lot of power to use the planet as a sort of giant resonance body for altering the magnetic/gravitational field to basically pull particle storms (sun wind, cosmic background, all that stuff) onto it. After healthy delay (like a minute or so) EVERYTHING on the map would be getting damaged, eroding big surface areas covered by creeper and the units in your own base unless covered by a shield. Every shield would also start absorbing power at its maximum rate to block the cosmic bombardment. Even when you stop the titan, the storm will continue for the same time delay to give a bigger risk to it and also because the particles are still drawn to the planet for a while.
I like it, since its easily balancable with the amount of creeper it erodes (one layer per 10 seconds?) and has a drawback that can cost you the game if you dont have energy reserves.
Welcome to the forums maric!
To build slightly on maric's idea, I think that maps should have a random chance of displaying "weather" or things like solar flares, that are not planet wide, but smaller.
The size, and the destructive power could be randomly generated.
I'd like to see an end-all weapon... NOVA :)
[Nothing Outshines Virgil's Awesomeness ::)]
Just does what it says. makes a star go supernova. not sure how this could be implemented, but novas are cool :D
I always thought something like the old Ion Cannon from the C&C games would be fun. Massive charge time, cost, power requirements, and you can call an orbital blast to cut through extreme depth creeper in a hurry.
Something that maybe has a radius of a Bertha shot, but is guaranteed to hit the ground beneath when fired. I suppose the balance on something that powerful would be a long recharge time, like 3 packets a tick for 5 minutes.
Quote from: Flicker on June 24, 2013, 10:55:57 PM
I always thought something like the old Ion Cannon from the C&C games would be fun. Massive charge time, cost, power requirements, and you can call an orbital blast to cut through extreme depth creeper in a hurry.
Something that maybe has a radius of a Bertha shot, but is guaranteed to hit the ground beneath when fired. I suppose the balance on something that powerful would be a long recharge time, like 3 packets a tick for 5 minutes.
So that's pretty much a bertha that needs more time and energy to recharge?
Berthas already can target anywhere on the map.
To allow for something like an orbital weapon but has enough differences that puts it in its own niche might be an atmospheric weather generator.
By this I mean solar storms, particle clouds, fluctuating gravity fields, etc.
The titan allows a person to select the type of weather they want, and duration. The amount of energy needed to charge up the unit would be dependent on the weather type, and the cost would either go up or down depending on the duration.
Factors like direction it moves (whether it moves at all) and area of effect might be randomized by the game engine. The storm can affect your own units, though, and gravity fields will affect both creeper and anticreeper (like in CW2)
Weather manipulation could be neat, I personally just wonder how much control you could realistically give the player without it breaking the game. I have an image of a Titan as being something that that is very macro game, it won't let you get in for the kill, but it can help control the map as a whole. Randomization makes this kind of control very hard, and would need crazy powerful effects to balance the risks. If something has a chance of destroying or significantly hindering me, it would have to have the chance to do that to the creeper as well or it would be too risky to use, and if it only was a minor inconvenience to either side it just wouldn't feel powerful to use.
Something like a one shot per map item that blew a hole through the bottom into space, basically a permanent creeper sink, would feel epic to use. It could cost 1000 packets to fire it and have to maintain constant energy the entire time or it will lose all power and need to restart. It would feel like a super-weapon, not in and of itself game breaking because it's cost would mean maintaining a serviceable defense while you prepare for a massive assault on a crazy fortified position, or charge it to destroy that one structure that is in such a hard to assault location that is is impeding your advance. Most maps of course can be won by overbuilding of course so that kind of weapon with its cost and power could probably be done with smaller units over time.
Other ideas like perhaps having a structure that charges over time and then allows for a 30 second time freeze on the creeper to allow you to move your units up that ridge and get collectors in place, or hold off that wave that just crested the wall you were not watching and get anti air into place for a vulnerable spot.
Perhaps pulling from my previous idea you could have an orbital weapon, though in this case instead of a single pulse it could be a beam that can rake across the map, and rather then destroy the creeper, it rather leaves it untouched and instead rips a layer or two out of the ground beneath it making a trench that can be bombed more defensibly then a plain or channel the creeper away from a location.
I like the idea of something like the conversion bomb except instead of changing the creeper to anti creeper it instead creates a massive shockwave in a specified direction, throwing a massive amount of creeper to the edges of the map and onto the far terrain forcing it to flow back down to its previous position, not directly destroying any but throwing it back and giving openings to attack with more conventional weapons. You could open an area then attempt to flood it with anti creeper or you could throw the creeper into a prepared area already flooded with anti creeper and attempt to destroy it that way.
I am not saying modifying the weather so that an electric storm zaps randomly on the map taking out some of your collectors and a bunch of creeper doesn't sound interesting, or that having wind push the creeper in a direction couldn't be useful, it just doesn't feel like something you would call a titan. A titan in my mind is something you call in when you need to make an impact, when time is of the essence and you are willing to pay premium for it, or when you are faced with a massive wall, and sometimes just need to make your own door in. If you really like the natural element you could have something which basically pulls in a meteor from space that crash lands on the map within a vague area of your choosing, destroying the creeper under it in a cataclysm of fire and creating a hill or ridge with which to posture for an attack, somewhere just large enough for a single weapon and a guppy to land. If it feels to powerful let it only be used once like some of my other ideas.
I apologize for the large wall of text, I just personally feel that a titan should be battle shaping, not something you place down as a mainstay or as a general use item, I love the Bertha but it is the kind of tool you can make a bank of just to do damage. Powerful maybe, but it just doesn't FEEL epic, it feels like artillery, a way to soften the battlefield for your conventional weapons, rather then a way reshape the battle for better or for worse. I personally would love the ability to blow a hole straight through the map, even if I could only do it once, put in the right location it will change the entire flow of the map. Imagine having a tool that could be used on a huge charge time to turn an entire random layer of creeper on the map into anti creeper, smashing up it's flow for a short time, and giving small areas of possible safe haven for a period to advance. Have an item that supercharges the star in the region, causing massive heat to cover the battlefield causing constant damage to all your structures for as long as it was activated but continuously burning the top layer of all exposed creeper and anti creeper on the entire map, could be used in conjunction with a repair device like a drone that will deploy and repair structures for packets making the cost of using such a weapon a matter of economy just as much as a matter attack. Make the system a one time toggle, no going back kind of idea, if you push this button the creeper will be forced back at a staggering rate, but if you are not prepared it can and will destroy you just as fast if not faster. make it able to be toggled on or off at three minute intervals (to avoid people just turning it on and off to let normal repair keep their structures fine while still doing big damage) and have it be a possible tactic for a defensive game where you are at a disadvantage, on a lone ridge with barely enough room for building, perhaps you make a small power grid, the weapon, and some sort of repair system to keep your entire system going for as long as possible, then turning it on and hoping to hold out long enough to gain a better foothold on the map.
Once again I apologize, I do love many of the ideas I have read, and most of them sound both fun and effective at their chosen task, I just don't feel like they are "TITAN". They should feel powerful, they should cost a fortune either in energy or risk, they should be a choice in deciding if you want to invest in such a hefty piece of equipment which from that point on will become a center point to your tactics. Make them a 1 time if they are super weapons, or make them economy draining so you simply cannot maintain your defenses and have the titan work constantly. Not sure if this is the kind of thing most people want, but when I use a titan, I want the battlefield to be rocked, if only for a moment and for the effects to have a lasting and effect.
Your one shot make a hole in the map weapon is
Nice but overpowerd
Why not just blow a hole through the warp
Restricter and every enemy on the field will explode
At once
Did you think of that
Quote from: tornado on July 15, 2013, 04:04:28 PM
Your one shot make a hole in the map weapon is
Nice but overpowerd
Why not just blow a hole through the warp
Restricter and every enemy on the field will explode
At once
Did you think of that
Now that seems a bit overpowered. :)
That is exactly like Thor from CW1... it just makes the map gameplay mop-up extra creeper.
Yes but the Thor didn't make a hole straight
Through the map.it drove into a black hole.
As they say:needs must when the devil drives.
Also I consider it my job to exploit cheats that make
The game easier
Also that one shot hole weapon could be done
With CPRL
Anything could be done with CRPL.
I don't think you can create any user placeable weapons with CPRL. Only enemy weapons and maybe something that would help you but not be controlled directly by you but controlled by the CPRL script that tells it what to do.
From what we have seen in the "Vitreous and Resinous Electrical Fluid" video it might be possible for CRPL to place one of player controlled units, and from what we can see in "Chimera" it can place custom images, so for example it can create a blaster, put a custom image on top of it, monitor where it is and execute a script depending on where the player moves it. So in effect it would make a player controlled custom unit. Probably we will have to see for ourselves when we get the game.^^
Quote from: MizInIA on July 17, 2013, 03:43:19 PM
I don't think you can create any user placeable weapons with CPRL. Only enemy weapons and maybe something that would help you but not be controlled directly by you but controlled by the CPRL script that tells it what to do.
Well, don't be too sure. What may be true today may well not be the facts tomorrow.... CRPL is like Virgil's little Lego set and he keeps adding bits and pieces. :)
Quote from: Grauniad on July 17, 2013, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on July 17, 2013, 03:43:19 PM
I don't think you can create any user placeable weapons with CPRL. Only enemy weapons and maybe something that would help you but not be controlled directly by you but controlled by the CPRL script that tells it what to do.
Well, don't be too sure. What may be true today may well not be the facts tomorrow.... CRPL is like Virgil's little Lego set and he keeps adding bits and pieces. :)
I wouldn't call CRPL a "little" Lego set. More like virgil's Legoland :)
Quote from: Grauniad on July 17, 2013, 04:15:26 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on July 17, 2013, 03:43:19 PM
I don't think you can create any user placeable weapons with CPRL. Only enemy weapons and maybe something that would help you but not be controlled directly by you but controlled by the CPRL script that tells it what to do.
Well, don't be too sure. What may be true today may well not be the facts tomorrow.... CRPL is like Virgil's little Lego set and he keeps adding bits and pieces. :)
Legos are awesome. my favorite piece has to be the round translucent single, or maybe the long 1 x 8 half (or were they 1/3)height. my least favorite to step on in the middle of the night is the 4 square regular height. It seems to have the optimal corner to foot ratio. :) Wait, what were we talking about?...
CPRL based user controlled weapons/structures would be a mighty powerful tool to give the custom map maker. Heck just being able to modify the build cost or damage done by weapons/structures could drastically alter how easy or hard a map is.
Quote from: MizInIA on July 17, 2013, 04:47:24 PM
Heck just being able to modify the build cost or damage done by weapons/structures could drastically alter how easy or hard a map is.
Unit build cost has, since inception, been an editor option for all standard units.
Quote from: Grauniad on July 17, 2013, 04:55:27 PM
Quote from: MizInIA on July 17, 2013, 04:47:24 PM
Heck just being able to modify the build cost or damage done by weapons/structures could drastically alter how easy or hard a map is.
Unit build cost has, since inception, been an editor option for all standard units.
good to know
I'm knida oaky at thinking up new ideas for games, so I'll give it a shot... usually only helps tohugh if i paly it, ut here i go.
Name: AC Nexus
Yes, this idea is one i got while palying the final missions in CW 1 and 2 but bear with me.
Now this wouldn't be sentient or anything, but basically is would be kind of a large unit/building and what you'd do is place it near ore (or something) and all it would do is pump out Anti-Creeper at a much larger efficiency than any other device taht exists (other than emmiters for normal creeper or say... the original Nexi). It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
Name: Power Core
Quite literally a giant reactor, this would be built upon a power zone and only a power zone (you know, incase any are unused since you don't really use air... like me xD). It would roughly have the power generation of 10 reactors, and would cost as much as roughly 9 or 9 and a half reactors to build. It would require ammo packets in order to charge up and activate itself after being built. It would however be jsut as immobile as a reactor, but would also last al ittle bit against creeper.
Name: The Pride Cannon
Literally a joke Titan, it would shoot a focused laser projectile at a target spot, and upon hitting, it would persist in the area, burning every layer of creeper in a small radius. While flying it would have a rainbow trail effect and the area it would burn would be lit up with the same color. Rainbow. Honestly It would probably take a bit to build similarily like the bertha and be immobile like it. I picture it as a mega mortar, but i think that's that the bertha is.
Name: Photonic Disentegration Beam Walker (or P.D.B.W. for short)
Not sure if something in any way similar to this has already been thought up but whatever, still put it up here. It would be a unit that could move and attack at once, it wouldn't fly because it would be more like a mech. the Stalker could move over other smaller units such as blasters or collectors, and would honestly be more like a super weapon the palyer would find on a heavily creeper infested world. It would most likely be up on a plateau as it's got no special shielding versus the creeper and as it attacks it would litterally be like a wall of lasers that can only hit creeper. it can walk up cliff levels, but only if there's a 2 level difference or less (like it can't go from level 1 to 4, it has to go to level 1 then to 2 or 3 then to 4). This wall of lasers would be constant and powered by it's very own power source, either some kind of self-generating/sustaining reactor, or something that wouldn't do anything to energy collection at all. It woul be slow moving, since it'd be slightly bigger than the Bertha.
Just a few ideas. I get 'em all the time quite literally so I thought I'd share. I love doing so.
Also nice ideas everyone, tons of creative people here, that's for sure! :D
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
Name: Power Core
Quite literally a giant reactor, this would be built upon a power zone and only a power zone (you know, incase any are unused since you don't really use air... like me xD). It would roughly have the power generation of 10 reactors, and would cost as much as roughly 9 or 9 and a half reactors to build. It would require ammo packets in order to charge up and activate itself after being built. It would however be jsut as immobile as a reactor, but would also last al ittle bit against creeper.
I'd rather build a normal reactor over a PZ... Gives roughly the same amount of energy and doesn't need to charge up.
Also try to type a little bit slower, it's pretty hard to read your text as many characters are swapped.
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
How so?
you get X energy per second in CW1, 2 & 3 .
In CW3 it seems you would get Y ore per second
It doesn't seem very exploitable (unless energy is exploitable). Please elaborate if possible.
(personally I almost never used AC in CW2 in fear of depleting the ore deposits and suddenly have my makers stop working)
Quote from: JonneeG on September 17, 2013, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
How so?
you get X energy per second in CW1, 2 & 3 .
In CW3 it seems you would get Y ore per second
It doesn't seem very exploitable (unless energy is exploitable). Please elaborate if possible.
(personally I almost never used AC in CW2 in fear of depleting the ore deposits and suddenly have my makers stop working)
make a sheild wall with sprayers as well as have a few ore desposet and a reactor farm and your set
Quote from: tornado on September 19, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: JonneeG on September 17, 2013, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
How so?
you get X energy per second in CW1, 2 & 3 .
In CW3 it seems you would get Y ore per second
It doesn't seem very exploitable (unless energy is exploitable). Please elaborate if possible.
(personally I almost never used AC in CW2 in fear of depleting the ore deposits and suddenly have my makers stop working)
make a sheild wall with sprayers as well as have a few ore desposet and a reactor farm and your set
you need 3 ore deposits to use 1 sprayer @full power.... so good luck building you "shield wall with sprayers"
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
easy exploit
If you think it's that easy, bear in mind that map makers also know this. I suggest we hold our fire (criticism, comments) until we see how it turns out in the end. Somehow, having played a few hundred maps already, I doubt it's an "easy exploit." Virgil did pay some attention to making sure the various components of the game is in balance and that they are not easy exploits. Sure, it may turn out that as more people get to play, we get to see new strategies that no beta-tester has thought of and that leads to "one-trick pony" strategies, but I doubt it. For one thing, and you'll see this even in the story missions, there are just too much variance built into the enemy components.
Quote from: Dark18 on September 19, 2013, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: tornado on September 19, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: JonneeG on September 17, 2013, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
How so?
you get X energy per second in CW1, 2 & 3 .
In CW3 it seems you would get Y ore per second
It doesn't seem very exploitable (unless energy is exploitable). Please elaborate if possible.
(personally I almost never used AC in CW2 in fear of depleting the ore deposits and suddenly have my makers stop working)
make a sheild wall with sprayers as well as have a few ore desposet and a reactor farm and your set
you need 3 ore deposits to use 1 sprayer @full power.... so good luck building you "shield wall with sprayers"
It
IS possible... just time and score consuming. Build a sprayer, turn the AC collection field on, then set a bomber to bomb the area [this should be far back in your base]. the field is strong enough to hold quite a lot of AC... but it's really just a method of storing it.
Quote from: tornado on September 19, 2013, 12:59:15 PM
Quote from: JonneeG on September 17, 2013, 10:30:36 PM
Quote from: tornado on September 17, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon7015 on September 05, 2013, 08:38:20 AM
Quote from: JF-T on August 03, 2013, 03:21:19 AM
It would take a very long time to build, but an idea exists you would jsut feed it white packets to keep its process of generation going after ore deposits would be depleted.
The ore deposits don't deplete.
easy exploit
How so?
you get X energy per second in CW1, 2 & 3 .
In CW3 it seems you would get Y ore per second
It doesn't seem very exploitable (unless energy is exploitable). Please elaborate if possible.
(personally I almost never used AC in CW2 in fear of depleting the ore deposits and suddenly have my makers stop working)
make a sheild wall with sprayers as well as have a few ore desposet and a reactor farm and your set
I may be misunderstanding your 'exploit' idea, and without the actual game, it is a little hard to understand what you're saying. In your quote, were you meaning to say...
A). having one ore mine feeding a lot of sprayers to create a 'wall of sprayers'
or
B). lots of shields (repulsors) and sprayers backing them up
or
C). Repeatedly bombing/ spraying an area/ island to create a huge amount of anticreeper to 'shield' the area
From the blog videos 'A).' is impossible because (as mentioned above) it takes ~3 ore mines to run 1 sprayer
'B).' is a viable strategy, but in my opinion, I would use a morter or a bertha to do the job more effectively.
'C).' does look like a good option with enough AC (see Neko's post), but can only be applied effectively in certain situations. Example below
Spoiler
If AET's and a gigantic void were involved. If digitalis was making it's way across the void to a flooded island, the anticreeper would be able to flow back on top of the the digitalis and make a landing spot. This will most likely will be used to create custom maps.
All in all, considering that other, more experienced people have also seen ore as a currently balanced idea, I will stand by them. If you can still find an exploit with ore/anticreeper to get yourself high scores on mainstream maps, I commend you, while Virgil
may or may not consider modifying the game slightly to rebalance it. But as most of us know, he's probably working on the game vigorously now, putting finishing touches and whatnot...
What about a titan that would take up 4 units of space but could hold 9 units inside it? The titan would have to be placed before the units and would require a constant flow of packets to operate. If it lost the constant flow of packets, all units inside it would be crushed because the titan could not sustain the expanded state.(or the outer four units could remain) After the titan receives power again it would expand the area inside it and once again be usable.
Quote from: Harkler on September 25, 2013, 08:16:35 PM
What about a titan that would take up 4 units of space but could hold 9 units inside it? The titan would have to be placed before the units and would require a constant flow of packets to operate. If it lost the constant flow of packets, all units inside it would be crushed because the titan could not sustain the expanded state.(or the outer four units could remain) After the titan receives power again it would expand the area inside it and once again be usable.
Um... whats the point of a holder unit in creeper world 2?
Anyways for titans, here are some possibilities:
1. A unit that timestops the surrounding area like the superweapon, however it requires a good amount of continuous power\ and is immobile.
2. A titan unit that requires a lot of energy or ore packets after you build it. However now it can function as a guppy for that particular resource, you can send it out to deploy its enormous reserves. Or you can use it as a weapon, it fires shots like a strafer if you gave it energy or anti-creeper if you gave it ore.
3. A giant tower that requires charging it with ore, and uses that to fire anti-creeper shots (targeted at an area) that disperse over a huge area.
4. I WANT MY GUPPY THAT CAN TRANSPORT ENERGY AND ANYTHING.
5. A titan that unleashes bombardment across the whole map. Overkill? Nah.
How about a titan tower which has a decently sized field which allows Active Fire towers within range to fire while being relocated/moving in the air. Of course the area of effect would have to be somewhat limited, because we don't want the field to be so OP. It would require a significant amount of energy to operate, but nothing so ridiculous. And, of course, the towers (blasters, mortars, and sprayers, etc.) would have to have the ammo/packets needed to fire.
(This could be a distinct unit, or another function of the same unit.) It could even have a storage buffer, much like an immobile Guppy, which would feed towers not connected to the network some ammo packets at the expense of its own energy reserves.
Just a thought.
EDIT: Oh, and its PZ boost would be increased range, and slight firing speed boost for affected towers.