I like to build machines that last. The last such machine I built was nearly 4 years ago. It created parts of CW1, all of CW2 and all of CW3. Now the time has come to start shopping for a new system. Normally I would devote weeks of research and thinking (and I still will), but why not just open up the process to expert input ? :)
Below is my starting criteria. Anyone who wants to input can. I'll try to build a list of parts for a complete system in this top post based on the feedback (if any) I get.
Criteria:
Time frame for purchase: Before Dec 31, 2013 (this tax year). Prefer November/first half of December.
Budget: Flexible, but get very nervous above $2k (feels like I am doing something wrong and unnecessary beyond that).
Form Factor: Tower or otherwise desktop oriented. Very quiet is highly desired. Nothing flashy. I like invisible and silent not something to cruise the strip in.
OS: Windows 8.1 pro (I gotta go with the times and retire my current machine to the windows 7 testing machine).
Intended use: Development of games (what else do people do on their computers??) This means good GPU, very good storage, high speed memory. I will not be overclocking. Reliability and longevity trump small performance gains. Reliability and speed of secondary storage trumps amount of secondary storage.
Biases: Current bias towards nvidia for GPU (physx plus things they have announced and/or just released). Intel CPU. The most reliable SSD with the best performance, even if it is not the best value.
Vendor: Parts available from newegg.com
Virgil's Wish list: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31603308
Working parts list
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TODO
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Added wish list to top post so I don't have to keep hunting for it -G.
Oooh.
I can hear something that sounds like G drooling and (appropriately enough) cracking his knuckles before settling in to build you a new system from the ground up...
;)
I could not contain myself, but had to chat directly with Virgil. Our talk ranged wide over a number of subjects such as the two Intel architectures (2011- and 1150/1156- pin CPU chips), SSD and other I/O configuration, closed-loop water-cooling and case design.
If time permits, I'll try and post a recap of those here.
I think ultimately Virgil s considering that now is not the time/place to build a top-of-the-line system based on 2011-architecture. Instead it makes a lot of sense to build a slightly cheaper system with specifications in line with what Helper and I built, but to plan if for replacement next year, depending on what Intel announces for high-end enthusiasts on the next refresh of that line. At that time Virgil will repurpose this build in his own household.
At the same time, the 750-GB Samsung 480 Evo offers great price/capacity and has a projected lifetime of 11 years (estimated by Anandtech) in other publications I've seen 19-year estimates, so it should certainly suffice.
Expect Virgil and I to hammer out an impressive mid-range system with a great graphics card, and to buy the components on Newegg (with occasional glances at NCIX) between now and November 25th.
Hopefully Virgil will assemble it by mid-December and have some time to benchmark it for us, so we can see how it turned out.
The Windows 8.1 thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but it is a necessity and Virgil is brave to bite that bullet. I can't bring myself to do it.
@Virgil. Do us a favor and use Piriform Speccy and post your current machine specs. Feel free to trim the .txt file only to contain hardware specs. Don't really need the rest.
Operating System
Windows 7 Professional 64-bit SP1
CPU
Intel Core i7 860 @ 2.80GHz 40 °C
Lynnfield 45nm Technology
RAM
8.00GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 799MHz (8-8-8-24)
Motherboard
Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. P55-USB3 (Socket 1156) 33 °C
Graphics
ASUS PB278 (2560x1440@60Hz)
1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series (ASUStek Computer Inc) 32 °C
Hard Drives
238GB Samsung SSD 840 PRO Series ATA Device (SSD) 23 °C
279GB Western Digital WDC WD3000HLFS-01G6U1 ATA Device (SATA) 33 °C
Optical Drives
ATAPI iHES208 2 ATA Device [BD Reader]
Audio
Realtek High Definition Audio
I highly recommend OCZ RevoDrive 3 X2. It is one of the things I was most satisfied with on my latest build.
I have used the SSD for OS, Adobe + some video work. Pretty "hard" work almost every day.
Power Supply: Better to go big than exactly what you think you need. XFX PRO 750 - 1250W Black Edition Full Modular Power Supply
RAM: Go for some good 32.
Processor wise, it looks like I might want the non-k version. I have no interest in overclocking, it's cheaper, and has some processor features that can matter for a development machine. The K version of the i7 is missing: VT-d and TSX-NI and a couple other things...
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75123,75122
Overclocking and "tuning" PC is overrated, It is the fast road to hardware failure.
+ many many hours of learning and tweaking.
Here is some background reading for the decision-making progress. I will mostly reference only Anandtech, but Tom's Hardware, Engadget, TechPowerup, Guru3D and BGR are among other sites that have similar reports. Always try and read more than one review or report and make sure that a range of opinion is present, and that one report does not simply parrot a referenced report.
The market segment we're talking about in this post is what Intel calls "High-end enthusiast" The processors are more powerful, and has more cores and I/O paths than the standard processors. The 3 new processors in this line is the i7-4820K, i7-4930K and the i7-4960X,
(http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/IVBE/lineup.png)
These are the direct and logical replacements for Virgil's 4-year old X-series. This Intel processor comparison (http://ark.intel.com/compare/41316,77779,77780,77781,75048,75122) gives details specifications. I included the two high-end processors from the desktop line, the i5-4670K and the i7-4670K as well as Virgil's current processor (the venerable i7-860)in the lineup.
Anandtech reviewed the new processors (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7255/intel-core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-review) in September, and here are some pertinent observations (some other sites were less complimentary):
The platform brought more cores, more PCIe lanes and more memory bandwidth to those users who needed more than what had become of Intel's performance desktop offerings. It was an acknowledgement of a high end market that seems to have lost importance over the past few years. On the surface, Sandy Bridge E was a very good gesture on Intel's part. Unfortunately, the fact that it's been nearly two years since we first met LGA-2011 without a single architecture update, despite seeing the arrival of both Ivy Bridge and Haswell, doesn't send a great message to the users willing to part with hard earned money to buy into the platform.
Side note, also note the Intel Closed-loop liquid-cooling offering. I have the previous model in an older build and I'm highly satisfied with it.
(http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/IVBE/coolersm.png) (http://www.anandtech.com/show/7255/intel-core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-review)
None of these new processors come with integrated graphics.
And again, quoting from Anandtech:
Understanding why we're talking about Ivy Bridge E now instead of Haswell E is pretty simple. The Extreme desktop parts come from the Xeon family. Sandy Bridge E was nothing more than a 6-core Sandy Bridge EP variant (Xeon E5), and Ivy Bridge E is the same. In the Xeon space, the big server customers require that Intel keep each socket around for at least two generations to increase the longevity of their platform investment. As a result we got two generations of Xeon CPUs (SNB-E/EP, and IVB-E/EP) that leverage LGA-2011. Because of when SNB-E was introduced, the LGA-2011 family ends up out of phase with the desktop/notebook architectures by around a year. So we get IVB-E in 2013 while desktop/notebook customers get Haswell. Next year when the PC clients move to 14nm Broadwell, the server (and extreme desktop) customers will get 22nm Haswell-E.
The only immediate solution to this problem would be for the server parts to skip a generation - either skip IVB-E and go to Haswell-E (not feasible as that would violate the 2 generations rule above), or skip Haswell-E and go directly to Broadwell-E next year. Intel tends to want to get the most use out of each one of its architectures, so I don't see a burning desire to skip an architecture.
Server customers are more obsessed with core counts than modest increases in IPC, so I don't see a lot of complaining there. On the desktop however, Ivy Bridge E poses a more interesting set of tradeoffs.
The big advantages that IVB-E brings to the table are a ridiculous number of PCIe lanes, a quad-channel memory interface and 2 more cores in its highest end configuration.
While the standard desktop Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge and Haswell parts all feature 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU's native PCIe controller, the Extreme parts (SNB-E/IVB-E) have more than twice that.
There are 40 total PCIe 3.0 lanes that branch off of Ivy Bridge E. Since IVB-E and SNB-E are socket compatible, that's the same number of lanes we got last time. The difference this time around is IVB-E's PCIe controller has been fully validated with PCIe 3.0 devices. While Sandy Bridge E technically supported PCIe 3.0 the controller was finalized prior to PCIe 3.0 devices being on the market and thus wasn't validated with any of them. The most famous case being NVIDIA's Kepler cards which by default run in PCIe 2.0 mode on SNB-E systems. Forcing PCIe 3.0 mode on SNB-E worked in many cases, while in others you'd see instability.
NVIDIA tells us that it plans to enable PCIe 3.0 on all IVB-E systems. Current drivers (including the 326.80 beta driver) treat IVB-E like SNB-E and force all Kepler cards to PCIe 2.0 mode, but NVIDIA has a new driver going through QA right now that will default to PCIe 3.0 when it detects IVB-E. SNB-E systems will continue to run in PCIe 2.0 mode.
Read the rest of the article and gain an insight into the complexities of Motherboards, chipsets and whatnot.
Finally, head on over to Passmark.com and review the benchmark data for these processors:
The Intel Core i7-4960X (http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4960X+%40+3.60GHz&id=2026), the Intel Core i7-4930K (http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4930K+%40+3.40GHz&id=2023) and the Intel Core i7-4820K (http://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4820K+%40+3.70GHz&id=2030). Make sure especially to review them against the I7-4770K (or non-K based on Virgils latest post to this thread).
Quote from: MadMag on October 26, 2013, 10:12:37 AM
I highly recommend OCZ RevoDrive 3 X2. It is one of the things I was most satisfied with on my latest build.
I have used the SSD for OS, Adobe + some video work. Pretty "hard" work almost every day.
I used to think OCZ was the cat's whiskers and the bee's knees. But then there are reports like this (http://www.itworld.com/hardware/379015/ocz-its-last-legs) and I've heard some bad feedback on some of their SSDs.
While it is entirely possible that they have great products. I would hesitate to recommend them now. ALso, it is one of these bad spirals. Every bad report generates more negative publicity and hten it is hard to get people to trust you, but they are admitting that they don't have money to buy components anymore....
Quote
Power Supply: Better to go big than exactly what you think you need. XFX PRO 750 - 1250W Black Edition Full Modular Power Supply
RAM: Go for some good 32.
I don't think Virgil should spec the power supply before he hasn't decided on the processor and graphics. I agree on the fully modular part, though. I like to overspec my power supply on the premise that they run cooler, quieter and lasts longer. I always try and go for Gold- or Platinum-efficiency levels as well.
And agreed on the 32GB RAM. At the very least, and maybe a tick or so above the native level supported by the processor if the motherboard supports XMP.
"NVIDIA tells us that it plans to enable PCIe 3.0 on all IVB-E systems. Current drivers (including the 326.80 beta driver) treat IVB-E like SNB-E and force all Kepler cards to PCIe 2.0 mode, but NVIDIA has a new driver going through QA right now that will default to PCIe 3.0 when it detects IVB-E. SNB-E systems will continue to run in PCIe 2.0 mode."
That... that right there makes the choice of a cpu more 'interesting'. The i7-4820k to the i7-4770 are all within $30 of each other, so price isn't really that much of a decider. The IVB-E cpu's can use more power, though... and that means more heat to move. But looking at that comparison chart and thinking about memory bandwidth and nvidia and pcie 3... that sure makes the i7-4820K look nice.
QuoteI like to overspec my power supply on the premise that they run cooler, quieter and lasts longer.
Yep, before I had PSU`s that was "cheap", but now I know the need of a good PSU just because of what you are saying and it seems like PC`n more often crash when the PSU goes 90%-100% all the time.
Quote from: virgilw on October 26, 2013, 10:32:07 AM
Processor wise, it looks like I might want the non-k version. I have no interest in overclocking, it's cheaper, and has some processor features that can matter for a development machine. The K version of the i7 is missing: VT-d and TSX-NI and a couple other things...
http://ark.intel.com/compare/75123,75122
Unless you run (or plan to run) Virtual machines you don't *need* VT-d directed I/O inside a virtual machine. And the Transaction synchronization - what transactions are you planning to run? it helps with stuff like database locks, etc...
Edit: and if you really need lock synchronization, you have excluded all of the high-end processors. Then you may have to look at a Xeon processor and that is another bag of worms (or kettle of fish).
Case design I'll summarize briefly, it's rather easy. :)
I like cases from Fractal Design, but in two cases there were small, correctable mistakes in manufacturing. If I was to build again, I'd still have a strong bias towards Fractal Design, but I would take a long, hard look at the Deep Silence range.
Both have nice internal design, foam silencing pads, steel construction, multiple fan locations, and filters in front of fan openings. After that it gets to be a matter of preference. I built once, long ago a case with lights and stuff. Now I don't. My latest build had a window, but only because I had a really good deal on the case. My preference is for closed, unobtrusive and silent... For the most part, though I did build a bright orange case for my sister. :)
I like Vortex PWM fans to replace non-PWM case fans. I also prefer all fans to be PWM modulated so the motherboard/processor can adjust fan speed as temps increase, rather than manual or software controlled. There are some other fans specifically designed to provide high negative or positive pressure and those might be interesting to use in combination with a closed-loop water cooling setup.
I love high Towers by Fractal Design,
but.. I love Cosmos 2 even more :) What I love about Cosmos 2: Plenty of space, in-buildt fan speed panel, "ulimited HD racks", plenty of holes with rubber gaskets, ready made for intercooler, "unlimited fan space" and comes with around 6 fans as far as I remember, two side panels that slides open with one touch where one side you got your wires and mess and the other side is your nice hardware :)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZUm2A1X.jpg)
Also nice is what appears to be the tubular feet to lift it off the ground. Saves having to have a little shelf to keep your expensive PC from acting as a vacuum cleaner for bottom-mounted fans and PSUs. :)
Quote from: MadMag on October 26, 2013, 02:08:29 PM
I love high Towers by Fractal Design,
Virgil, you asked how closed-loop water cooling works. If you look closely, you can see MadMag's leading from the CPU to an upward-pointing fan just behind the drive cage with the radiator between the case top and the fan. Not the two feeding tubes carrying the liquid (usually polypropolene glycol). No filling of reservoirs, or home-made joints. No algae growing in exposed tubes or anything messy.
It works very good :)
Final thoughts on a case:
Firstly, I hate to recommend things that I have not personally used. To that extent, I can really only talk about Fractal Design's silent cases, since those were the ones I've used for a majority of builds. They are heavy, roomy and insulted with foam panels.
I've been looking at the Nanoxia Deep Silence series (generally good reviews on a number of sites).
I've used 2 cases from Apevia, but their build quality is not nearly as high as others that I've used. Nothing wrong with them, just cheap cases and I've not built in them for maybe 4-5 years. I build in a Bitfenix Prodigy with a mini-ITX motherboard and there were a number of things I'd do differently if I had to do it again. In the line of silent desktops, the Fractal Design rules my recent builds.
I have a Define and they improved the design with the Define R4 that looks better and is slightly larger.
My most recent build is the Arc Midi and it is room y enough for the components I have in it. I don't like that it has a window, but I got it cheap. Without the window it would have had more insulating material. I do believe there are non-windowed models, but I can't find any when I do a cursory search.
I would definitely investigate the Nanoxia Deep Silence 2 case if I had to build again. I would have to see if it has removable drive cages.
The Fractal Design Define and Define XL are big, heavy and very roomy inside. I briefly considered a Define XL until I made a cardboard model and put it next to my desk. :)
Maybe not quite the mule you envisaged, but a nice little gopher....
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14494.0;attach=15826;image)
To reduce the price, the following economies can be applied.
1. Power supply has 300W overage according to sizing estimates. A 650W power supply will still be adequate.
2. Reduce SSD capacity to 500GB
3. Reduce SSD capacity to 256GB and add a 1TB hard drive.
4. Reduce SSD capacity to 60GB and use the SSD with Intel Smart Response as a cache.
5. Reduce the GPU - even a $200 GPU is quite respectable in today's price war climate.
6. Replace Blu-ray with DVD-only option.
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14494.0;attach=15828;image)
That cheaper gopher system looks pretty sweet....
Check out this news for today:
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Drops-GTX-780-GTX-770-Prices-Announces-GTX-780-Ti-Price
That puts the 770 back in the picture.
--edit--
Plus I'd get three games I'd not have time to play and $100 of that shield toy (that makes it something I might actually get to play with). NVidia is playing hardball with this bundle...
You see, I've learnt my lesson when I bought the AMD Radeon HD 7950. I just don't really need such a massive (and it wasn't all that powerful) video card. I'll do quite well with a lower-range card such as the HD 7770. It drives the same number of monitors, has the same screen resolution support, and all those nice things. I don't play high-requirement video games and stuff like that.
I'd much rather boost my storage capacity and get a bigger SSD than a bigger graphics card.
Which reminds me, you have that Samsung 480 Pro which is a *very* nice card.
Have you considered not buying a new SSD, and moving that to your new build? YOU can add a <$100 hard drive to round out your storage requirements...
Also, and I might try this when I next build (which unfortunately won't be soon, unless I can build for someone again). is to get a small SSD in the 120GB - 60GB range and use Intel's Smart Response Technology to make that a cache for a 2TB hard drive.
If it's not working well, all of these are steps that are easy to revert from and go back to a larger SSD.
If you like it and are ready to pull the trigger on a slow acquisition method, then you can consider my #2 case, the Fractal Design Arc Midi.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352031
It's priced at $110 with a 25% discount code till 11/10 and free shipping. That should be $82.50
It's only $7.50 less than the Nanoxia that I'm quite interested in, but the $10 or so shipping on this heavy item will made a difference as well.
I just watched the youtube video on that fractal design case... pretty cool.
Those sleds for the drive bays, do they have mounting holes for 2.5" drives? (As in will they secure a SSD).
Quote from: virgilw on October 28, 2013, 09:14:39 PM
Those sleds for the drive bays, do they have mounting holes for 2.5" drives? (As in will they secure a SSD).
Yes, they do. I have my SSD mounted in one. Since it's vibration-free, the SSD mounts directly on the bottom of the sled.
I don't recall if that particular model has the option to mount one or two SSDs on the back of the backplate. THat way the wiring is completely out of sight.
Last night I started pondering the issue of heat build-up in your case.
We talked and I mentioned that the IVB-E series processor at full load will generate the equivalent of a 60W incandescent bulb of additional heat in your case. Add to this that you are planning a rather beefy card and I'm wondering of the appeal of a mid-size tower is maybe not making us overlook the improved airflow possibilities in a larger case?
Maybe you should read up on the Nanoxia DS1 or an equivalent larger case from Fractal Design or anyone else that makes good silent cases with insulation, filters, and airflow?
That fractal design arc midi case looks like it comes with three 120mm fans. One on the bottom front, one on the top back and one on the back top. The one on the back top would be removed and relocated since I'd be putting a radiator there for the liquid cooling. I was thinking it could relocate the the bottom of the case. That could basically mean that CPU heat gets shoved out the back of the case and air flows up the bottom of the case and out the top. Two fans pulling in from the front and bottom and two fans (one the radiator fan) blowing out the top and back. And of course the PSU evacuating heat on its own. That seemed like adequate air flow to me, especially since I might only have a single SSD and a BD-R drive mounted up front (and can remove one of the drive bays and rotate the other).
Seems sound enough. I was thinking that ultimately the cooling was a function of air flow. But if the fans had to spin too fast then the noise level increases. One of the reasons I like 140mm fans over 120mm fans.
As I said before, I might recommend you consider swapping out the fans for 140mm fans just from that perspective.
As for a fan on the bottom, venting into the case - make sure that fan has a good filter in front of it, otherwise you're emulating a small, stationary vacuum cleaner. :)
Which case is your current preference? The Fractal Design or the Deep Silence?
I'd probably pick the fractal design over the DS2 on the spot... but that's mostly because the DS2 earns some negative marks when compared to the DS1. So it's not a fair comparison... but the reviews compare the DS2 to the DS1 and mostly recommend the DS1 (which costs more). Also, having watched the newegg video for the fractal design case make me more comfortable with that case because I've seen it explained over a 20 minute video. I guess I'm a small case (pun intended) study in marketing dynamics :)
Are you OK now with the Fractal Design being a window case? One of the big reasons I was putting forward the DS case was that it was not windowed.
It probably doesn't really matter. I don't plan to bling up the inside of the case, and whatever led's are present probably won't be any issue. Everything being totally equal I would pick a non window case, though. Just because that window is plastic and will scratch more easily.
What I did, until some members of my household decided differently, was to leave the protective plastic wrapping on the window. Looked funky - in a good way. :)
The Fractal Design Define R4 looks pretty good too:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352020
It comes in a version without the window. Other than that, it's the extra front door padding and top panel that look like the main differences compared to the arc midi.
I have the Define R3. I think some of the upgrades in the R4 may make it better, but between the R2 and my Arc Midi, I prefer the Arc Midi. But yes, it is a nice case. I think the front door hampers airflow from the front fans somewhat. The one I have do not have a filter in front of the front fans.
It's big, though. I suggest you size it by making a cardboard model with that dimensions. THe only bigger case is the Define XL, - that's *huge*.
Anyway, I don't think you'd be unhappy with it. Here's Anand's review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6102/fractal-design-define-r4-case-review-evolution-not-revolution/
QuoteWhere things start to go a little topsy turvy is with cabling. The rubber-grommet lined holes in the motherboard tray seem a little on the small side, which can be a minor inconvenience. I was disappointed to see Fractal Design still hasn't really fixed one of my big problems with the R3, though: the AUX 12V routing hole above the motherboard. They increased the space between the back of the motherboard tray and the the right side panel, but that doesn't change the fact that the AUX 12V line routing hole is essentially parallel to the panel rails. In the R3 I just plain couldn't use the hole, while in the R4 I could shimmy the cable through with a little effort. This still feels like a big oversight that needs to be corrected somehow, though. Fractal Design may want to consider switching over to a hinged side panel mounting design for the next revision to clear this gap.
By and large, though, assembly was pretty easy and I can't complain too much outside of the cabling snafu. What's worth pointing out is that the R4 does not feature an IDE indicator LED despite having space for one. The LEDs surrounding the power button and breaking the center of the front door are power indicators only. This is an unusual omission that doesn't affect the usability of the case too much (many notebooks these days don't include IDE indicators either), but it's worth mentioning.
I now remember. The thing that bugs me most is you have to open the front door whenever you want to access an optical drive. And if the door is closed and the drive tries to eject, well, that's not too good.... Only a magnetic latch, but the drive better be strong and well-built to support the extra force needed.
I had to look at my current case to remember.... but it has a door (half door actually) on the front. I leave it open most of the time, but not really on purpose it seems. I bet I've only used the bd-r drive maybe a dozen times over 4 years. Most of that was when I first got the system. I can't remember the last time I installed a game from optical media. Now i'm experiencing cognitive dissonance over the bd-r drive. It's quickly turning into a 3.5" floppy for me... One could just put the windows 8.1 installation iso onto a commodity thumb drive and install the OS from that. I'm still going to get a BD-R drive, though, but I almost don't need it...
Unless I'm missing something I don't see an easy way to share a wish list on newegg. I made it 'public' but they must wait a day before approving them or something since it doesn't show in the public list. I can email myself an html wish list, but that doesn't do any good for posting here. So, here's a screenshot of what I'm looking at so far. If the public wish list is up tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to link to that.
I hope I didn't leave anything obvious out of these components. I'd have included a mouse... if I could find a cheap one that is worth a hoot. As for keyboard, they don't even make the microsoft comfort curve 2000 anymore (which I use now). That was a cheap and awesome keyboard. The comfort curve 3000 has messed up the insert/delete keys and also made a mess of the function keys. Best cheap keyboard I could find was a straight microsoft one. Note that I'll probably keep using my comfort curve 2000 till it breaks and I also have a logitech g5 mouse that works fine... I was just looking for new things all around, and got stymied by the simplest of things.
Also, the price of the GPU from newegg... not good. That same card is $20 cheaper direct from evga. That's embarrassing. I guess newegg can't bring themselves to quite apply the nvidia discounts completely just yet.
I also need to add in maybe 3 140mm fans to replace the 2 in the case (and add a third). I've read the bundled ones are louder than necessary. Which ones was it your recommended, G?
Quote from: virgilw on October 29, 2013, 07:31:58 PM
I hope I didn't leave anything obvious out of these components.
If you did, I don't see it.
QuoteI'd have included a mouse... if I could find a cheap one that is worth a hoot.
I'm pretty happy with the MS Mobile Mouse 3500. But then, I set a low barrier and don't expect more than 2 buttons and a scroll wheel. :)
QuoteAs for keyboard, they don't even make the microsoft comfort curve 2000 anymore (which I use now). That was a cheap and awesome keyboard. The comfort curve 3000 has messed up the insert/delete keys and also made a mess of the function keys. Best cheap keyboard I could find was a straight microsoft one. Note that I'll probably keep using my comfort curve 2000 till it breaks and I also have a logitech g5 mouse that works fine... I was just looking for new things all around, and got stymied by the simplest of things.
I had endless grief looking for a keyboard. I knew I wanted a mechanical keyboard, as opposed the the cheaper, rubber-dome keyboards. I can tell the difference. :) THe best-rated one on Newegg was a Microsoft keyboard. I hated it - the keys was too close together and I can't remember what else. I still have it. In a fit of stupidity I threw the packaging out on the day I opened it. Now it's gathering dust until I can find time to list it in eBay and give it away.
Then I bought a Logitech G710+. Another mistake. becasue they have lighted keycaps, they decided that it is a good idea to put the alternate characters (those that appear when one press Shift) below the standard character on all the keys. And they printed then in a weird font as well... I still struggle to find them. :(
QuoteAlso, the price of the GPU from newegg... not good. That same card is $20 cheaper direct from evga. That's embarrassing. I guess newegg can't bring themselves to quite apply the nvidia discounts completely just yet.
I assume you'll be buying it from EVGA then? :) MadMag and I both have MSI GPUs - he has Nvidia and I have Radeon. Maybe you can look around since it seems MSI has deals more often than EVGA?
QuoteI also need to add in maybe 3 140mm fans to replace the 2 in the case (and add a third). I've read the bundled ones are louder than necessary. Which ones was it your recommended, G?
I sincerely doubt that the Fractal Design fans are loud. THey have never been. My beef with them is they are 3-pin power and thus don't work with PWM temperature control from the motherboard. You have to either let them run normally or put the widget that Fractal Design gives you in the case. I just run them at full speed. They're still quiet.
Maybe simply buy one additional 140mm Fractal Design fan? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835352007)
The fans I really like are Cougar Vortex (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=cougar+vortex&N=-1&isNodeId=1) and there are a range of them. I don't have to tell you that 140mm fans run quieter than 120mm fans Unfortunately, the PWN fans are only in the 120mm size. FOr 140mm, they give you an "adapter" that drops the voltage and then they spin at half speed, but it's not a flexible arrangement, so you're back to the manual fan control gizmo. :(
But... Corsair has a very interesting series of fans in their Air series. Especially interesting is the high static pressure fan (http://www.corsair.com/en/cpu-cooling-kits/air-series-fans/air-series-sp120-pwm-quiet-edition-high-static-pressure-fan.html) - designed to force more air through the dense fins of a radiator. :) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181024. Watch out, there are PWM and two fixed-speed mode fans, so at least 3 models in the series. :)
They also have other Air Series fans for unrestricted airflow.
You didn't order those components already, did you?
Although I sized the PSU using Newegg's PSU calculator, did you do the same?
I just ran a test through the Asus PSU calculator and it told me I needed a 900W PSU. :(
I'm thinking you should look around and think on this. It's not the place we'd want to make a mistake. But then, everybody worries about that and oversizes, so I don't know... :(
One word of caution: In my Fractal Design Define R3 case - the precursor to the case you're currently looking at - I have a 850W Corsair PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139011) and I didn't pay attention to the dimensions - so it's a little longer than most other PSUs I've worked with. That caused me some hassles. I still managed to fit it in, but it wasn't fun and it overlaps one bottom fan position.
I've not ordered anything yet...
How in the world could that system need 900W :)
I'll check it out, though. Don't want to come up shy in that area. I know first hand what havoc can come from a blown power supply or a system without enough power.
Not saying you should buy this - over the life of a system, the 7% efficiency between a Bronze and Gold certified PSU probably adds up in both cooling and wasted electricity, but this 750W supply is $85 after rebate.
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750M 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139030). Downs are semi-modular, not the variable fan support like the SeaSonic or the previous Corsair I listed. and of course, Bronze certification.
Now is the time to start making acquisitions to get some price savings.
The Fractal Design R4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352021) with a window (I know, right?) is on sale for $80 with Newegg promo code EMCWXVL54. Free Shipping is worth another $13 on that heavy case.
The Corsair Hydro H50 Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010) is on sale for $45 after rebate of $10.
Those are good prices...
But I think I'll stick with the non-window case. The main reason I'm looking at the Define instead of the Arc midi is because of that solid side panel. And the main reason I care about the side panel is that it cuts a couple decibels off the noise
Those corsair hydro coolers seem to review well on review sites, but there are a number of software complaints in the newegg comments. It is substantially cheaper than the intel cooler, though.
I installed that exact same Corsair model in a small Bitfenix Prodigy build. I did have to replace the fan for noise, though. So if it was me, I'd look at that high static pressure quiet fan from Corsair and buy that with the price differential. :)
BUT... I just looked at it again and it does not support LGA 2011 socket CPUs. :( Scratch that idea. :(
Here's the wishlist...
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31603308
Take a look at those two power supplies I have in the list. Which would you get? They are very similar with similar complaints in the reviews.
Also, I did switch over to a MSI graphics card. Seems like a better value since it is priced like it should be and the card is nice.
I see that newegg has added the game bundles they are supposed to with the GPUs. But, I see no way to get $100 of the purchase of a nvidia shield....
When you over-provision, you don't do it in halves, right?
After *much* searching, I found the GTX 770 Thermal/power specs on the Nvidia website.
The card needs 230W and it's recommended on a minimum 600W PSU.
A quick back of the envelope sanity-check:
CPU: 130W
GPU: 230W
Motherboard: 20W
Memory: 7W x 8 (max) =60W
USB: 20W
Optical Drive: 20W
SSD: 15W
Hard Drive: 20W
Fans: xx (I think if you use PWM fans their power use is accounted for in the MB requirement.
That tallies to around 415W. If you go with a >850W PSU, I think it is not a wise way to spend your money. Both of those have 850W models and as I told you about the Corsair, it was a tad unwieldy. I would go with the Seasonic, but they are both excellent, IMHO. Check warranties and see if one has solid or Japanese capacitors.
The difference in price between the seasonic 850 and 1050 works out to only $13 (shipping is free on the 1050 but $7 on the 850). As far as I can tell they are virtually identical PSUs, though. I suppose the 1050 might have slightly larger components but it might also be they are identical other than something that limits the 850 to 850...
I guess it now comes down to how much you care about every last dollar - and like me, you may probably just want to buy the "better" 1050W model than save $13. :) Will mean that in the end your box will run slightly more expensive than "bottom dollar", but you may feel better about it.
I have something called "Shoprunner" and I don't know if it still applies, but they give a free introductory period and then your applicable Newegg orders (the PC case will not be applicable) is 2-day and free. As is returns, which is really handy if you ever need to return something since those costs are usually out of your own pocket.
I sent you an invitation and you can look it over. For me, to date I've save $282 in shipping costs and I've not paid them a penny yet. After my initial introductory period, I cancelled my membership and they invited me back for a year for free. Then after that year they extended it for another year based on my activity. And just now when I logged on to the site, they gave me another 12 months free based on my American Express membership. :)
I'll give it a shot.... it will save some on this purchase for sure.
I'll wait till the day before I pull the trigger to start the 30 day trial, in case I have to RMA something.
Right now I'm mostly trying to figure out how the $100 off nvidia shield works. I see no reference to it anywhere at newegg. I'm on the fence about trying Shield, but only with the $100 off of course. Once I get that sorted, I'm close to ordering parts...
I'm curious how the Shield deal works out - not that I'm in the market for one, but still.
And you should give your stuff a once-over before you pull the trigger. Make your own calculations, etc., since in the end, this is you spending money and buying the components. And a big deal thing you get from buying an off-the-shelf PC that you don't get with one you asesemble yourself, is integration and a guarantee that all the parts play together.
So once more, check the specs on the Motherboard, make sure the power supply is compatible, the memory is within spec, and for best results check the motherboard vendor site for approved memory lists and that your memory is on that list.
Check the slots in the case and that they match up with the slots on the motherboard. That the motherboard has the right support for your GPU.. the list is pretty long... Check compatible form factors..
Check vendor return policies on every component.
Read a few reviews in both 5, 3 and 1-star categories to get a feel for issues that may arise.
And then check some more. :)
When I get closer to decision time, I start asking questions like this:
Here is the Seasonic you have in your wish list: SeaSonic X-SERIES X-1050 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151110)
This model costs exactly the same: SeaSonic Platinum SS-860XP2 860W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151111)
Now I start wondering. I know the 1050W is overkill. The 860W model is more than sufficient. Over the life of my PC, the energy savings from the more efficient Platinum might not be directly noticeable, but they still exists, if only in the math.
Side-by-side comparison (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657%2050001697%20600479297&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&CompareItemList=58%7C17-151-110%5E17-151-110-TS%2C17-151-111%5E17-151-111-TS&percm=17-151-111%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24).
Then I notice that the 1050W is slightly larger (1 inch longer) and I remember my difficulties fitting the Corsair into the Fractal Design Define R3 case. The cables can't bend to get through the cut-out to go behind the mount and the PSU overlapped a fan mount position.
I decided to inquire with support at newegg about the $100 off nvidia shield. Here was my email:
--
Nvidia very recently announce a promotion on GTX770 and better GPUS. Their holiday bundle includes 3 games and $100 off nvidia shield.
I've spec'd out system parts from newegg for purchase, including a GTX770 card. I see the 3 game bundle listed on all of the GPU pages at newegg. I can find no reference to the $100 shield discount. Does this $100 shield discount not apply at newegg?
--
Now think carefully.... what reply do you think they sent?
Here is there reply
--
Dear Virgil,
Thank you for contacting Newegg.
I am glad to help you. We have list all combo deal on our website and we email customer all our promo codes. Unfortunately, we do not offer any type of special discounts unless clearly stated on the website.
If you have any further questions or concerns, please visit our FAQs page. If you still require any assistance, please feel free to reply directly to this email.
Thank you,
Dora
Newegg Customer Service
--
Well, I'm glad they cleared that up. It's kinda like going into Home Depot and asking were something is then being told "if you didn't see it then we don't have it". Thanks for the help. I hope I was looking in the right spot. :) I still remain at a loss as to how or where or when or by what mechanism one gets $100 off the Shield. I don't even want one of the blasted things at this point, I just want to know the answer to this question :)
I'm sorry to say that I don't have much sympathy for you wasting time on Newegg support. :)
It's not a Newegg issue, it's an Nvidia issue and you really should have contacted Nvidia. Newegg was correct, they don't and can't show stuff that Nvidia hasn't enabled.
I'm thinking it's a pipeline thing. The $100 off might be a coupon and it has to get in the box from the manufacturer (MSI?) and then go to Newegg before it can be shown. Or Nvidia might have to do something to enable the bundle purchase.
Try contacting Nvidia - it's their deal and their bundle and their discount. Then be prepared to be brushed off again. :(
Edit:
Let me illustrate.
Long ago, I was TWC cable subscriber and there was an interesting little start-up called FON (http://corp.fon.com/en). THey gave you a special router if you would set up a FON hotspot. I got the router, but there were issues in terms of one's Internet usage agreements and actually deploying a public hotspot on a residential Internet connection.
Then they announced that they have struck a deal with TWC to allow FON hotspots. I was delighted. But do you think that either FON or TWC had any further information? A few years later my enthusiasm waned, I disconnected the FON router and eventually got rid of TWC as well. To this day I don't know how that agreement was supposed to be implemented. I think you are in a similar limbo situation, except that Nvidia has a greater incentive to make it work. SO maybe they have the answer, or maybe their "people" are now hammering out the actual implementation and in a week, or a month (hopefully no longer than that) they will have everything sorted. In the meantime... limbo.
I like the wishlist setup. Will give you 2 years* of productive game creating & maybe some game playing. :)
*Before you "must" change to a more powerful/upgraded system.
Try this and see if you get anywhere:
http://www.geforce.com/get-the-ultimate-bundle
Getting $100 off on the nvidia shield is about as bad as trying to sign up on healthcare.gov (which I gave up on:)).
@MadMag... if I get 1+ years out of it, I'll be happy. Then I can move it on down the line and build out a system based on next year's tech.
Quote@MadMag... if I get 1+ years out of it, I'll be happy.
I tried to be positive :)
---
100$ off on Nvidia Shield.. looks interesting.
Quote from: virgilw on November 01, 2013, 02:18:50 PM
Getting $100 off on the nvidia shield is about as bad as trying to sign up on healthcare.gov (which I gave up on:)).
Well, according to an NPR report this morning, only 285 people managed to sign up for benefits in the first two weeks of operation. That's a truly remarkable achievement for a website... :)
I see the bundle is indicated as *only* (as of now) available on NCIX and TigerDirect. I can try a walk-in at Micro Center for you. :) (Guess who's jonesing for a visit to a computer store? )
ANyway, I can get to buy it. Here's the NCIX link. http://www.ncix.ca/promo/subpromosale.php?webid=1405
Yeah, ncix is the only one that comes up with bundles like that (tiger direct doesn't even sell the shield from what I can tell).
Via the US site I only get these:
http://us.ncix.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=+gtx+770+shield+bundle
They are all bundles, none of which reflect the $100 discount :) They don't even properly reflect the recent GPU discounts or the game bundle discounts properly :)
The base line gtx 770 (like the MSI model) should be $330 (it is at newegg). The shield is $300-$100. The games are free. I expect to pay $530 for the GPU and shield (or $630 with a rebate of $100... who knows. Nvidia nor any vendor will say if it is a rebate or not).
Ncix has prices way out of whack (at least on the US site... the difference between the canadian site is suspect given the exchange rate is 0.96/1 right now). TigerDirect seems oblivious regarding the Shield (yet are listed as one of the only two etailers for this bundle on nvidia's site).
Healthcare.gov? Ha... ha ha ha ha. What a funny little web site. If it were an assignment it would get maybe a D or D+. Starts out nice but quickly falls apart. My first hint at trouble was when it transposed my home and cell phone numbers in the summary page. I thought, "That's odd", so went back and edited... same thing. It got exponentially worse from that part forward.
This is really annoying.
Anandtech shows the R4 with a Seasonic PSU (http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/2177/Large%20(4%20of%208).jpg) - but guess what? They didn't cable it up. :(
You can still get a good idea for what happens when you make the PSU 1 inch longer.
And as for coil whine? I think unless you push the PSU to within 80+% of max rated capacity that's not going to be an issue. ANd how do you think you're going to push it that hard? Coil whine is for people who spec their PSU too close to the limit.
Bah ha ha. The saga continues.
I went straight to evga's online store. They advertised the shield bundle there. I clicked through on the buy buttons, but it never would apply the $100 discount. Finally, I logged in to an account I had with them (I bought an evga card years ago), repeated the process and low and behold I had a shopping cart with a properly priced GPU $329, a $299 shield, and a -$100 (CODE: SHIELDPROMO) applied. Happy day, at last I found a site that honors the deal.
Proceeding further through the checkout process (just to see what shipping rates would be). And i get this error:
"Shipping rates are unavailable for the shipping address entered.
Please click the back button to check the shipping address and try again."
Nice one. The address is definitely mine, it's on a map, and it was even already on file in their system. It refuses to let me pass this screen, not matter how many times I re-enter the correct information or minor permutations of the correct address info.
This is just comical. The one place I managed to find the actual discounts on everything thinks I'm not on earth.
I feel your cough, Radeon, cough... frustration.
No, actually, hang in there. By Black Friday all will be well. :)
I read and posted on this topic:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/628458/general-discussion/regarding-shield-rebates-included-in-gtx-holiday-bundle/
Hilarious... truly hilarious. So after seeing you can now get the shield bundle at newegg with any GTX 770 card other than the one I want, I wrote newegg back stating this must be an oversight. I got a reply saying it should work, but they meant "Get the free games". I wrote them back yet again saying "no, I mean the $100 shield combo which you have on every GTX 770 card other than this particular one." I got a reply saying, "yeah I can't change that, the marketing department does that".
Most likely it's a complete oversight that they left out that card. They have another MSI GTX 770 card that has the bundle, so it isn't a bias against MSI. They have other cards that are also $329 that have the bundle, so it isn't about the price. Maybe the support person will send a note to marketing. Maybe they will catch it on their own. Maybe they decided to pick on this one card and try to persuade people to spend $10 more on the equivalent evga card (it can't be more than just me in the whole wide world that is obsessed with this, though :) )
Yea wow, the differences are subtle, but significant (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%2050001312%20600030348%20600451269&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=gtx%20770&bop=And&CompareItemList=48%7C14-127-741%5E14-127-741-TS%2C14-127-751%5E14-127-751-TS%2C14-127-742%5E14-127-742-TS%2C14-127-747%5E14-127-747-TS&percm=14-127-741%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-127-751%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-127-742%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-127-747%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24). :(
I really think the TF-model (without the Shield bundle) is the more desirable choice. Then I guess the choice is whether you'll go for the $400 TF-model with an extra 2GB of GDDR5 memory and a $15 rebate) or wait around in the hope that MSI clears up their price, or ....
You know what... that 4G model makes a lot of sense. I've never played it, but I've read people complaining about how skyrim will use over 3G of video memory for textures. I also have been known to occasionally screw up during development and push a butt load of textures to the GPU by accident. 4G would give a little more room to handle those screw ups before the exceptions start flying :)
*faceplant* :)
That will cost you mo' moneh. And you're moving a long way away from the <$2k price target.
If 60 or 70 bucks will end my combo gpu and shield torture, I'll make the trade:).
Update your wish list then. :)
Updated with the 4G video card and the platinum seasonic PSU. THere's not way to add the GPU/Shield combo deal to a wish list it seems.
Quote from: virgilw on November 04, 2013, 07:47:22 PM
Updated with the 4G video card and the platinum seasonic PSU. THere's not way to add the GPU/Shield combo deal to a wish list it seems.
I guess you do that when you add it to your shopping cart. The Lightning GPU is still in your list as well. :)
Before you pull the trigger, revisit the choice of memory. I see there is some Mushkin that's now cheaper than the G.Skill. Not saying better, since I don't know, just saying "cheaper". But then, I get the sense you're not exactly trying to save every $10 you can, either, anymore. :)
It's, IMHO a risky stage in putting together a build when you relax your price criteria and start adding a few "nice-to-have's", since now the price is creeping up.
Just revisit and reaffirm that this build is still targeted for a 1-year expected usage.
I believe Anandtech has a review of that PSU. How convenient. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5464/seasonic-platinum-series-860w/
They comment on the fact that it's slightly longer than "standard".
Otherwise they seem very complimentary, and claims that it exceeds certification standards for efficiency. In fact, they suggest that the gold series of Seasonic meets the Platinum certification level of efficiency.
I was wondering about crossload and found this article explaining it: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cases/display/psu-methodology2_3.html
I see on Newegg that the PUS has a 7-year warranty. That's very good as well.
Among all the good things, this is what they say about noise:
Only the chirping of the PFC inductor becomes noticeable if you are close enough; in a closed PC case the noise should not be audible. Right up to higher loads the fan is quiet—or even inaudible below 40% load if the semi-passive mode is activated. Up to 93% efficiency can be achieved with this design and even at 10% load efficiency is still very good. At very low load the regulation effort is usually high—measured against the operating current. This causes high power loss during low load.
Anandtech also has a review for the XFX 1000W model. They say it's built by Seasonic, has slightly lower efficiency, but, importantly, has none of the noise of the 860W Seasonic. http://www.anandtech.com/show/5546/xfx-1000w-pro-series-80plus-platinum/
They have nothing good to say about the Kingwin models and are damning with faint praise for Enermax models.
TechPowerup has a nice comparative list of all PSU's they reviewed (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/?category=Power+Supplies&manufacturer=&pp=all&order=score) and they also rate Seasonic very highly. Interestingly enough, some of the models I mentioned above that was less well reviewed on Anandtech still got good ratings at Techpowerup.
The latest graphics card you added makes no sense. It's only $40 less than the 4GB model, yet it's a 2GB model. For that you may as well get the 4GB model.
Are you looking at the right wishlist?
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=31603308
This should be the card I have in there:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127747
Currently I have two power supplies in the list, but that was just to remind me to look at the XFX one. I don't think I can justify the healthy price increase it demands, though.
--edit--
Updated links.
Those links are broken. I'm looking at the wish list in the first post.
I see the two power supplies. The thing is, when you mentioned "coil whine", I started paying more attention to that in reviews. Anand's review mentioned "electrical noise" and they mentioned it more than once. I've learned (painfully) that when Anand does that it may be a bigger deal than they're letting on. They don't usually harp on negative aspects.
They do say it may be quiet at low utilization, and they also say a good case should dampen the sound. And I guess you could take the 15% restocking fee gamble that it's not too bad.
Yeah... that may be something to not mess with, though. The agony of returning a PSU...
And noise isn't something I want to mess around with, especially once pointed out. Reminds me of a friend in college. He joked that he got even with his roommate one night by waiting until everything had gotten quiet and lights were out. He waited about 3-4 minutes just as his roommate was falling asleep and then said, "Hey... just listen to that clock tick".
Evil...
But... I enjoy the sound of a ticking clock....
OK, I don't think that the Newwgg RMA process (with the free return shipping of Shoprunner) is so onerous and it only costs 15% of the purchase price. SO if there is a reasonable chance that you will be OK with the cheaper Seasonic, then I think you should consider evaluating the noise issue in person. Otherwise we should shop around a little more.
I'm going to look around. In a previous post I linked to Techpowerup roundup of PSUs. That may be a starting point.
For your consideration I present this power supply:
XFX P1-850B-BEFX 850W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207028): Price $130 before the #30 rebate, OEM is the Seasonic X-series and similar to the highly-rated Corsair AX-series.
Hardwaresecrets (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/XFX-PRO-850-W-Black-Edition-Full-Modular-Power-Supply-Review/1716) reviewed it and you should be able to find a few more reviews if you search...
Very nice... and much more affordable. It's even short enough to not cover the bottom case fan slot it would seem. Looks like a winner.
That (with rebates, and ignoring shipping) brings me down under $2100 (not including the nvidia shield toy). I can live with that...
So maybe I will pull the trigger on this stuff in another day or so.
Take a look at this:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X79%20Extreme6/?cat=Memory
I actually don't see the memory I have currently selected in the wish list in this chart. If I go here http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-1866c10q-32gab then click on the QVL/AsRock tab, I see the extreme6 listed, but it says 'x8 DIMM'.
So, does this mean that 4 of these 8G sticks actually don't (or might not) work with this motherboard? It's a shame if not. Newegg has added a 10% off on that memory for the next few days.
--edit--
Found this in one of the motherboard reviews:
--
Other Thoughts: I can't count RAM issues I have had as a Con, because I knew going in that the G.Skill Z Series 1866 8x4GB kit I bought for this was not on the official support list.
The RAM is slightly unstable at it's rated speed of 1866, but operates beautifully at 1600.
I could probably push the voltage on the memory controller and get it to operate at the higher speed, but honestly, I am very happy with my 3930k @ 4.6 Ghz just the way it is.
The RAMDisk software is a nice freebee. I don't think the FastLAN does much to speed my connection, but it does a nice job of monitoring traffic in an easy to read, real time format.
System main components for those interested in compatibility:
* Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K
* G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Desktop Memory Model F3-14900CL9Q2-32GBZL
* XFX Double D FX-795A-TDFC Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
--
...
The post marked "best solution" here is interesting.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/313647-30-32gb-asrock-extreme6
It basically says that higher voltages are required for >1600 memory... and that higher voltage can be a bad thing.
This is the mem he recommends:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226317&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Memory+(Desktop+Memory)-_-Mushkin+Enhanced-_-20226317
Alright... I think that wish list may be in it's final form. I'm going to take a mandatory 1+ hour wait then pull the trigger on it.
I've updated the memory to lower priced but better timing memory that should in theory work on that ASRock motherboard.
I went with the XFX power supply.
I've taken the keyboard out of the wishlist.
I have left the 500GB 840 evo. The plan is put the 500GB evo, my existing 256GB 840 pro, and a 1TB drive in the new system. I'll use the 500GB evo for the system drive and not be terrible stingy about what I have installed (like I am now). The 256GB 840 pro will be for my dev tree. The 1tb will be for bulk storage.
I removed the blueray drive and replaced with a commodity dvd writer from LG. I already have a blueray drive in my current system I will relocate to the new system (where it can sit unused).
Once promo codes are applied and rebates received, the price for everything will be under $2k (not including the nvidia Shield toy).
Awesome... can we come and play on it? :P
Here's how I think it works out if you buy everything from Newegg (minus the Shield Bundle, which adds the Nvidia Shield and $200 to the price).
PCPartPicker part list (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1YTV1) / Price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1YTV1/by_merchant/) / Benchmarks (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1YTV1/benchmarks/)
CPU: Intel Core i7-4820K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80633i74820k) ($304.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock X79 Extreme6 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/asrock-motherboard-x79extreme6) ($226.13 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt8g3d1608et3lx0) ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt8g3d1608et3lx0) ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt8g3d1608et3lx0) ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tactical 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/crucial-memory-blt8g3d1608et3lx0) ($55.25 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz7te500bw) ($339.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 770 4GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-n770tf4gd5oc) ($390.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/fractal-design-case-fdcadefr4bl) ($113.58 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 850W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/xfx-power-supply-p1850bbefx) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/lite-on-optical-drive-ihas124-04) ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Pro - OEM (64-bit) (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/microsoft-os-fqc06950) ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Other: Intel BXTS13X Liquid Cooling Thermal Solution for Socket LGA1150/ LGA2011 / LGA1366 / LGA1156 / LGA1155 ($81.99)
Total: $1933.56
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-07 17:46 EST-0500)
I'm looking at it and thinking "This is a high-end system, that simply blows my awesome build right out of the water, yet you're building it to last a year so you can get in sync with the Intel product cycle." :)
I hope it works well and you get to turn out at least one awesome game on it!
Welp, the deed is done. I could only get 2 of the 3 promo codes to work. They absolutely refused to let me add the promo code for the CPU when I also had the promo code on the memory. They would take it in the cart, but on the checkout page it refused. I tried it about 5 times (one way then the other). I finally just gritted my teeth and moved past it since I was getting tired of entering all of the checkout information each time. With rebates, though, it still came in below $2k (without shield). With shield I'm about $150 over budget, but I can live with that.
Now we need before and after benchmarks...:-)
What's the best total benchmark tool to run for easy comparison?
I think it's easiest to use the 30-day trail of Passmark Performance Test (http://www.passmark.com/products/pt.htm). That way you can contribute to the very tables and scores we used to evaluate options.
Download it once on your current PC and then again on the new PC.
3DMark Basic (http://www.futuremark.com/benchmarks/3dmark#windows) is available on Steam, or you can pay $25 for the Advanced version. The differences are described at the link.