Knuckle Cracker

Knuckle Cracker => General => Topic started by: chwooly on June 12, 2021, 10:09:27 pm

Title: CSM only Map Generator
Post by: chwooly on June 12, 2021, 10:09:27 pm
So, Is there any hope for a CW3 CSM generator or CSM standalone game in the near future?

Title: Re: CSM only Map Generator
Post by: Builder17 on June 13, 2021, 11:00:39 am
Hi, this is just my opinion on this topic, but it is likely to be true as well.

CSM generator:
Balancing would be hardest aspect on this, because if maps are too easy or too hard - maybe even impossible!!! to win, it would be kinda awkward. (Tormented Space has some impossible maps, for example.)

Also it wouldn't work with most of the things there are in CSM, I believe.

CSM standalone game:
Again I'm not sure about this, but re-programming CSM in another programming language isn't easy task to do. Maybe somebody else knows more about that? :)
Title: Re: CSM only Map Generator
Post by: GoodMorning on June 14, 2021, 08:09:53 pm
I've considered cloning CSM or making something like it before, and concluded that the full Creeper sim isn't necessary to the CSM gameplay, and some rendering tricks would work equally well. Wrapping the core gameplay and not needing the full diffusion-sim would also allow for more factions and less lag.

For the generator, it's mostly a question of how to make things interesting. Most later CSM maps are designed carefully to leave a couple of paths to victory which need clever thought, and a brute-slog method if you're slow. Getting a CRPL map-generator to factor in more than a handful of tricks (which you learn to recognise) is hard, and building a map without lag is impossible within CW3. (Even making fun omni maps in PF with an autogenerator is tricky.)
Title: Re: CSM only Map Generator
Post by: chwooly on June 14, 2021, 10:18:36 pm
Disclaimer, I am not a coder.

As GM points out as a standalone game/mini game it could have a much simpler UI and you would eliminate most of the unit coding since you could pare down all units to 7 total, collector, reactor, relay, terp, guppy, forge, and CN. This is based on the way the majority of CSM maps are currently, There are a few made that use the full complement but they are few and far between so I would just not allow them. The coding for the forge could be reduced since you wouldn't really need the 2 for AC, and build speed could be removed as well.

I would think since there would be no story elements required and less units, (replaced by bombs and other CSM elements so probably a net zero change), It might be an addition to the CW world without being overly complicated.

Lag might be an issue but I always thought lag was caused by excessive creep so if you were to limit amount of creep and size of map allowed it should mitigate some if not all of the lag.

As for balance, This is an issue for every version of KC games so far, especially in the community made maps, Which is why map ratings are so controversial. And just like the rest of KC there will be the usual degree's of difficulty. So balance will be up to the individual producer of the map.