Knuckle Cracker

Particle Fleet => Pre-release chatter => Topic started by: D0m0nik on September 15, 2016, 01:57:20 pm

Title: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 15, 2016, 01:57:20 pm
Not sure where to post or ask these so I will lump them together.

1: OMNI - When placing the unit is it possible to have a preview cirlce like in CW3 collector unit so that you can determine the best place for it. you currently have to guess and then delete and replace.

2: When you finish a mission is it possible to just 'restart mission' rather than having to exit and restart.

3: The score board is confusing me a little. I am a speed player and I suspect this will continue in PF. Every time I load a mission the top few scores are not viewable until I delete my name in the corp filter and apply filter. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 15, 2016, 02:21:54 pm
In ship customization, I notice you only have 1 brush size for the the hull. I can understand why, but is is possible for the square on to be bigger so you can start with your template easier, and go from there?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 15, 2016, 02:23:51 pm
When you hover over the ship build menu how do you know how much energy it costs to build a unit?

When you click on a unit is it possible for the bottom menu to show ship health and energy as percentages?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 15, 2016, 02:25:10 pm
Can we have a popup that gives a description of the modules in shipbuilder (when you hover over an individual module)? If it's already implemented, doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: ShadeOfRed on September 15, 2016, 02:40:02 pm
I was going to ask this in a different post but I'll add it here!

How hard would it be to have, when you have a group of omni's selected, and hover over an island, for the game to try to place all of the omni's on the island in the closest spaces to your cursor, instead of some on the island and some in space. 

It makes sense to do it that way, unless that is just way more work then it's worth.  :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 02:46:58 pm
3: The score board is confusing me a little. I am a speed player and I suspect this will continue in PF. Every time I load a mission the top few scores are not viewable until I delete my name in the corp filter and apply filter. Am I doing something wrong?

The scoreboard will show you whatever you filter on, plus 3 people better than you, and many more worse than you.  To see the top of the entire scoreboard, you just remove any filter.
The idea is that for maps with lots of scores, you don't want to post a score then not see where you are in the list.  What you want to know is where you are and what the time better than you are.  Yes, you also want to know what the absolute best times are...

Right now you have to remove the filter to see the top of the list.  What I'd like to do is maybe show the top 3 (or 5), then show the current list.  That's more work, though, so I'll have to think about refining it post initial release.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 02:49:05 pm
In ship customization, I notice you only have 1 brush size for the the hull. I can understand why, but is is possible for the square on to be bigger so you can start with your template easier, and go from there?
I've added to the list (post initial release).
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 02:50:06 pm
When you hover over the ship build menu how do you know how much energy it costs to build a unit?

When you click on a unit is it possible for the bottom menu to show ship health and energy as percentages?

Yeah, there is a major work item I have planned post initial release that will show the ship and the ship status (if built) when you hover over a build button.  The main concern is how to deal with custom modules... and that is another major work item post initial release.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 02:50:59 pm
Can we have a popup that gives a description of the modules in shipbuilder (when you hover over an individual module)? If it's already implemented, doesn't work for me.

Yeah, they need links to the help.  You can go into the help from the main menu and look them up, but having them on the shipbuilder would be more convenient.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 02:51:54 pm
I was going to ask this in a different post but I'll add it here!

How hard would it be to have, when you have a group of omni's selected, and hover over an island, for the game to try to place all of the omni's on the island in the closest spaces to your cursor, instead of some on the island and some in space. 

It makes sense to do it that way, unless that is just way more work then it's worth.  :)

I'll add this to my list.... 
It is 'slightly complicated'.  But nothing I'm not used to :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 15, 2016, 02:55:05 pm
Virgil, this must be a nightmare! I will post questions as I am sure all feedback here is helpful but cannot imagine how hard you are working at the moment! All great comments so far though, the game is incredible.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 03:33:34 pm
You know how sometimes you move a lathe in and then about a gazillion particles start coming to the emitter's defense... and your lathe is taking damage, your support ships are doing their best, you are close to taking out the emitter and the lathe is damaged on three sides... There's this moment when you don't know if the emitter will be taken out or not, but you do know the lathe probably won't make it either way.

I'm that lathe :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 15, 2016, 03:35:54 pm
Baby steps, Virgil, baby steps. :)  Take one thing at a time, leave some by the wayside.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 15, 2016, 03:38:05 pm
You need a hammer then to just hit a few things away for the moment then too.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 15, 2016, 03:48:48 pm
haha, great analogy  ;D
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 15, 2016, 05:16:04 pm
Do not forget that a new assault can be mounted later.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: chwooly on September 15, 2016, 07:24:29 pm
Is it just me or does it seem like the story line is for everyone/average players and the maps that have been made so far are for the Micheal Phelps of the Knuckle Cracker community?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 15, 2016, 08:13:56 pm
It seems to me that the maps so far are made by people who have practiced, and that the new key recipients are still getting a sense of exactly how much strain a Lathe can take, and how best to support it. (Oh... I just reread the first page of this thread, and realised that those words could take another meaning. Still somewhat valid, though.)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 08:26:08 pm
The story maps are definitely meant to go from beginner, to intermediate, to advanced intermediate.
The current exchange maps do require a jump in skill.  There aren't many, and they were made by very experienced players.  I don't expect all exchange maps to be like that, though.  And I expect some other maps to show up in inception that cover the spectrum of skill.

Story and Inception I can control, Exchange is up to everyone else.  But in the event there is no happy medium for a given player, I included a random map generator in both PF and CW3.  That was my thinking anyway.  It was actually a bit of overkill to have a random map generator and a map editor with online sharing (took a lot more work), but I wanted the spectrum to be covered for potential players.

PF also has one more way to accommodate players.  You can play with a sandbox fleet. A mission's energy constraints and enemies are still in place, but you could potentially make a mission easier (or harder) by using ships of your own design.

The final piece will all fall into place once I have custom ship sharing available (integrated in the game).  That way a person could pick and choose from other people's designs when playing a map and not even have to make their own.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: chwooly on September 15, 2016, 08:46:57 pm
The story maps are definitely meant to go from beginner, to intermediate, to advanced intermediate.
The current exchange maps do require a jump in skill.  There aren't many, and they were made by very experienced players.  I don't expect all exchange maps to be like that, though.  And I expect some other maps to show up in inception that cover the spectrum of skill.

Story and Inception I can control, Exchange is up to everyone else.  But in the event there is no happy medium for a given player, I included a random map generator in both PF and CW3.  That was my thinking anyway.  It was actually a bit of overkill to have a random map generator and a map editor with online sharing (took a lot more work), but I wanted the spectrum to be covered for potential players.

PF also has one more way to accommodate players.  You can play with a sandbox fleet. A mission's energy constraints and enemies are still in place, but you could potentially make a mission easier (or harder) by using ships of your own design.

The final piece will all fall into place once I have custom ship sharing available (integrated in the game).  That way a person could pick and choose from other people's designs when playing a map and not even have to make their own.

I just finished a map with a sandbox fleet, Great idea, It does help when the skills are not there, However 1 note, When you are placing ships if you have deleted ships in the middle of the stack those stay empty.even when picking up tech on the map.

Cheers and thanks for another great game.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Fireball14 on September 15, 2016, 09:03:51 pm
I just finished a map with a sandbox fleet, Great idea, It does help when the skills are not there, However 1 note, When you are placing ships if you have deleted ships in the middle of the stack those stay empty.even when picking up tech on the map.

Cheers and thanks for another great game.
There is small check box on top of your ship list, that allows you to drug your ship icons around.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Ovalcircle on September 15, 2016, 09:12:20 pm
I was browsing the Exchange and I found that I can't click on a map creator's name to see all of the maps made by that person. Will this feature be in the final version?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 15, 2016, 09:14:46 pm
Yeah, it should be a feature I think.
Were you in carousel or grid view mode?  (Top left next to the filters you can change the view mode).

So that I would have double the work, I decided to have two different views for the same data.  With all the extra time I have I thought that would be a good idea :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Ovalcircle on September 15, 2016, 09:21:21 pm
Tried it in both views and it didn't work :(.  Also, when you click the details button for a map, you can rate it without downloading it or going into the actual map. I don't want some troll to go on a Rate 1 spree and discourage new map-makers. Otherwise, I'm having a fantastic time with the game and look forward to the official release.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 16, 2016, 04:25:41 am
I can't for the life of me work out how to use the AMP Gems. Can someone please give an idiot a guide? Thanks
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 16, 2016, 04:35:38 am
I can't for the life of me work out how to use the AMP Gems. Can someone please give an idiot a guide? Thanks
Can I ask what part of the amp gem confuses you? When you click a ship, there a button for placing the gem on the ship that gives it more range and fire power, there also a spoiler, if it what I think your issue is, and I hate to spoil for you.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 16, 2016, 04:47:52 am
Two uses:
Tech: Button on lower-right of UI, similar to Forge.
Ship: Select, bottom of menu has "Mount Amp Gem" button.

I'm missing something as well, if there are more uses.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: jaworeq on September 16, 2016, 04:48:58 am
Also, you have to collect it with lathe...
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 16, 2016, 04:56:22 am
A question for someone (likely planetfall):
Where can I find PRPL docs?

Wiki -> PRPL is incomplete, Wiki -> PRPL ->Alphabetic command list refuses access (citing permissions), Wiki -> PRPL -> prpldocs doesn't compile (but some information is extractable).

Unlike CW3, I can't find a way to import the campaign or Exchange for extraction (possibly NYI).

Thanks.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 16, 2016, 05:01:23 am
Completely missed the button at the bottom for mounting, thanks
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: chwooly on September 16, 2016, 06:54:49 am
I just finished a map with a sandbox fleet, Great idea, It does help when the skills are not there, However 1 note, When you are placing ships if you have deleted ships in the middle of the stack those stay empty.even when picking up tech on the map.

Cheers and thanks for another great game.
There is small check box on top of your ship list, that allows you to drug your ship icons around.
Damn, I was wondering what that was for, I tried to use it to place ships and nothing happened.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: planetfall on September 16, 2016, 07:31:08 am
A question for someone (likely planetfall):
Where can I find PRPL docs?
They are mostly undocumented at this point, unfortunately. You can use the alphabetic list page for some of them... for those implemented after a certain point Virgil put an explanation in the changelog for each build. So it could be a matter of making public the old changelogs, or adding the new testers to the beta group.

Quote
Wiki -> PRPL is incomplete, Wiki -> PRPL ->Alphabetic command list refuses access (citing permissions), Wiki -> PRPL -> prpldocs doesn't compile (but some information is extractable).
By wiki->prpl->prpldocs, do you mean prpldocsrc?
I'm not the person to ask for wiki permissions (pretty sure that's Karsten's department) but I'll bring this to his attention.

Quote
Unlike CW3, I can't find a way to import the campaign or Exchange for extraction (possibly NYI).
Exchange maps are stored in particlefleet/exchange/maps. Note the particlefleet directory is not in the same place as the old creeperworld3 directory. The default location is displayed in advanced settings.
Currently, story and inception maps are resources deep in the game somewhere. Load up the map and create a savegame, and it will show up in particlefleet/missionsaves/TheAreaSavedFrom/TheMapUID
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 16, 2016, 08:00:52 am
Thank you. I've been incidentally avoiding saves due to playing only when I have time to run through a mission from beginning to end.

I had dug around, in steamapps as well as My Games, but I haven't begun on the exchange either. I was hoping for the campaign of Inception, as those scripts were/are interesting to face.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: ShadeOfRed on September 16, 2016, 08:07:51 am
Just an inquiry, who wrote the music for the game?  Was it you Virgil?  Because that song is stuck in my head, in a good way.

Dunna dunna dun dun dun.  Dunna dunna dun dun dun. Dunna dun dun dun dun duunnn.  Dunna dun dun dun dun Dunnnn. Dunna dunna dun dun dun.....

:)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 16, 2016, 10:27:20 am
Just an inquiry, who wrote the music for the game?  Was it you Virgil?  Because that song is stuck in my head, in a good way.

Dunna dunna dun dun dun.  Dunna dunna dun dun dun. Dunna dun dun dun dun duunnn.  Dunna dun dun dun dun Dunnnn. Dunna dunna dun dun dun.....

:)

I wish :)
It was professionally composed and created by http://www.finnmk.com/
There's even live instrument recording at various spots.  I like it... worth every penny.  You can check out Finn M-K and everyone else over on the credits page. There's also a bunch of screenshots in the credits of the game over the last 2.5 years from beginning to end.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 16, 2016, 11:53:33 am
Is there a plan to have a ship editor exchange? If I make an awesome ship and lets say GoodMorning wants to use it for his map, it'd be quicker to just grab it from the exchange than redrawing it by hand.... But then again, it might not be worth your time.

I'll also put it here. Do you plan on putting a grid for the ship editor? Would it be possible to have the modules in the ship editor to be rotated (there's three that would benefit - command module, engine, fighter bays.)?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 16, 2016, 12:13:44 pm
Is there a plan to have a ship editor exchange? If I make an awesome ship and lets say GoodMorning wants to use it for his map, it'd be quicker to just grab it from the exchange than redrawing it by hand.... But then again, it might not be worth your time.

I'll also put it here. Do you plan on putting a grid for the ship editor? Would it be possible to have the modules in the ship editor to be rotated (there's three that would benefit - command module, engine, fighter bays.)?

Yes
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 16, 2016, 12:21:41 pm
Yes, there's a plan to have an online share for the ships.  In the mean time, the files can be shared. 
There is a file per custom ship in this directory:
c:\Users\YOUR_USER\Documents\My Games\particlefleet\ships
NOTE:
In the current build all of the files end in a .spf1 extension.  That will be changed to .dat in the next build. (Steam cloud stuff is the reason).

Rotation wise, not the CM and not the engine.   The fighter base could be allowed to rotate... I might look at that when I'm working in this whole area post launch.  Same for a design grid.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 16, 2016, 12:31:10 pm
I'd guess allowing engine rotation would make ship movement calculations orders of magnitude more complex...
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 16, 2016, 12:33:40 pm
I'd guess allowing engine rotation would make ship movement calculations orders of magnitude more complex...

Good point. It was just a passing thought.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 16, 2016, 08:04:22 pm
Bridge rotation can be done by drawing sideways, up to a point. In any case, the bridge is square... Why rotate?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Xalos on September 16, 2016, 08:47:47 pm
In any case, the bridge is square... Why rotate?

I suspect mostly people want to build very wide ships without the bridge and engines being sideways, which makes things look a bit silly:
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=21289.msg147102#msg147102
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 16, 2016, 09:34:03 pm
True. But there's a reason that the editor limits things in the way it does. (Although that might be ship tile shapes.)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 17, 2016, 01:55:40 am
What parts on a ship are best for attacking the particles, or is it a combination of things.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 17, 2016, 02:15:31 am
Do amp gems accelerate build rate when mounted into incomplete ships? If they can be used for a global upgrade, can we concentrate the effect into a single ship? Not necessarily for the "rebuild", but for the bridge (especially of a Titan) to build twice as fast, an amp gem might be a worthy cost.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 17, 2016, 03:32:38 am
Do amp gems accelerate build rate when mounted into incomplete ships? If they can be used for a global upgrade, can we concentrate the effect into a single ship? Not necessarily for the "rebuild", but for the bridge (especially of a Titan) to build twice as fast, an amp gem might be a worthy cost.

No, they do not accelerate ship building on a per-ship basis.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 17, 2016, 03:39:37 am
Now, the important question: Could they? (It could likely be PRPLed, but it seems more straightforward to implement directly. Not that it's important, and it's a balancing decision anyway, but the question might as well be asked...)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 17, 2016, 04:58:56 am
Now, the important question: Could they? (It could likely be PRPLed, but it seems more straightforward to implement directly. Not that it's important, and it's a balancing decision anyway, but the question might as well be asked...)

Well, of course anything ins possible, it's merely a small matter of programming. There are incongruities in the process that makes it an awkward mechanism, though.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 17, 2016, 07:49:38 am
What separates it from a conditional in the supply decision, or the reduction of a timer interval? I don't propose that the bridge be beult for a lower cost, only at a higher rate.

While trying it just to see, though, I noticed that the orange amp-bridge overlays the progress bar.

May I suggest (again, as a post-release feature) that ship tiles show the state of their ship?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: chwooly on September 17, 2016, 10:48:37 am
Just a quick thought before my 2nd cuppa. When unmounting a gem there is a count down. Is there any way to stop that count down? Also is there any way to hot key ship builds, since we are limited to a set number of ships due to the build menu might it be easier to program the hot keys to the block that the ship is in?  Or automate so that when you lose a ship it is automatically rebuilt. maybe this can be toggled off and on? Maybe even have it auto fly to a check point?

Another issue is not being able to zoom when I have a ship selected. Sometimes I will zoom in to pick a particular ship and then want to zoom out again using the mouse wheel but can't maybe when a ship is selected you could zoom out by holding down space, control, alt, or some other key?

Oh and when first starting a map if you place the HQ in the wrong spot you only have 2 options, 1 is destroy it so it jumps back into rift space and then you have to wait 20 secs or so, or abort and restart.

Also is there some way to have prioritize your HQ build? In maps where the mine is very close to resource packs HQ and lathes will either pick the pack or jump between the source and the pack unless you are very precise in placement?

Cheers
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: mzimmer74 on September 17, 2016, 11:08:39 am
One general question that I haven't been able to figure out is how to stop a build.  Let's say I start building 3 ships and realize I don't have the energy to build them quickly.  In CW3 I could simply select two of them and deactivate them.  So far, the only option I see in PF is to destroy a ship.  However, I might not want to do that since I've already invested a little bit of energy into them.  Am I missing something obvious?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 17, 2016, 11:31:16 am
One general question that I haven't been able to figure out is how to stop a build.  Let's say I start building 3 ships and realize I don't have the energy to build them quickly.  In CW3 I could simply select two of them and deactivate them.  So far, the only option I see in PF is to destroy a ship.  However, I might not want to do that since I've already invested a little bit of energy into them.  Am I missing something obvious?


Yep. Can't right now. Probably should go on some wish-list somewhere. Don't hold your breath pre-release. Since it's bugs and story missions only and features after. :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: mzimmer74 on September 17, 2016, 11:45:52 am
One general question that I haven't been able to figure out is how to stop a build.  Let's say I start building 3 ships and realize I don't have the energy to build them quickly.  In CW3 I could simply select two of them and deactivate them.  So far, the only option I see in PF is to destroy a ship.  However, I might not want to do that since I've already invested a little bit of energy into them.  Am I missing something obvious?


Yep. Can't right now. Probably should go on some wish-list somewhere. Don't hold your breath pre-release. Since it's bugs and story missions only and features after. :)

No worries.  Not a critical thing obviously.  I'm just glad I wasn't being completely oblivious to something obvious! :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 17, 2016, 12:35:40 pm
I have that real close to working already.  If the command module is finished, you can click on the "Build Hull" button in the ship's control panel and that will stop the ship hull from building.  I'll see if I can maybe make that apply to the command module as well, so it works during that part of the ship building process.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: mzimmer74 on September 17, 2016, 12:51:22 pm
Another non-critical thing that would be nice.  When I play a map in the exchange and beat it the only option to finish is to exit mission.  However, when I do that it takes me back to the exchange.  The only problem is that if I want to rate the map I have to click on it again. 

I'm guessing this is already on the to-do list, but if not I'd like to request an intermediate window.  When I beat the level and click on exit, have it take me directly to a rating window and then back to the exchange after I've rated the map (or clicked exit).  Basically, it'd be nice to have it work like CW3.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: D0m0nik on September 17, 2016, 02:36:05 pm
I agree with three of the above points, I would love to be able to zoom with the wheel whilst a unit is selected. Not being able to pause building is a problem for energy management if you are very much in the CW mindset and the menu point by Mzimmer is, as mentioned, a minor one but still a bit annoying. Does not distract form the game though.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 17, 2016, 03:32:39 pm
You can go into the controls tab of the settings and change the mouse wheel to only zoom.  If you do that, then you'll have to use other ways of rotating the ship (keys, or click drag). Might reset on you if you go back into the controls settings (bug that should be fixed next build, fingers crossed).

And ship building will be something you can suspend in the next build as well.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 17, 2016, 05:14:08 pm
In the map editor, is there a way to resize the map without making a new one? Definitely not a pressing matter.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: gakm4 on September 17, 2016, 05:59:36 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

For the high scores is it possible to have custom and stock fleets to have a filter to see how you rank with people using the stock fleet instead of against people building the perfect custom fleet for a mission?

Will it be possible to hide completed maps in the exchange?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: planetfall on September 17, 2016, 06:14:21 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

Yes, via PRPL, though that's a nasty trick that would likely get you lots of negative votes. Actually this gives me an idea... A custom map generator that uses the player-selected fleet as the seed, assuming the RNG works the same way as it did in CW3... hmm...
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 17, 2016, 06:32:39 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

Well, if they want to be on the leaderboard, they need to use the default.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: gakm4 on September 17, 2016, 06:39:44 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

Yes, via PRPL, though that's a nasty trick that would likely get you lots of negative votes. Actually this gives me an idea... A custom map generator that uses the player-selected fleet as the seed, assuming the RNG works the same way as it did in CW3... hmm...
That makes me wonder if you could make it so someone only has acess to a few pre selected ships until a certain amount of time passes by and after that time they regain acess to their fleet.

My vision for a map like that would be you having a small fleet that got way in over their head and are trying to survive until reinforcements arrive.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 17, 2016, 06:42:25 pm
Once I'm more familiar with the whole game, I'll work on a PRPL for something familiar.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 17, 2016, 07:04:14 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

For the high scores is it possible to have custom and stock fleets to have a filter to see how you rank with people using the stock fleet instead of against people building the perfect custom fleet for a mission?

Will it be possible to hide completed maps in the exchange?

For each fleet type, there is a separate score category.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Ovalcircle on September 17, 2016, 07:13:01 pm
There is a feature where if the ship is built, you can click the ship icon on the left to select it from across the map. However the HQ ship isn't selected when clicking its icon in the bottom left, so could Virgil add this to the final build?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 17, 2016, 07:38:16 pm
On the exchange, one of the maps on carousel does not have a detail button. It is there on the grid view there.

Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: chwooly on September 17, 2016, 07:45:38 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?



Why would you want to?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 17, 2016, 07:47:39 pm
On the exchange, one of the maps on carousel does not have a detail button. It is there on the grid view there.

Yeah, I screwed that up.  The bug has been there for a long time, just never triggered till now.  Just fixed it so a new build will be up in under an hour.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: gakm4 on September 18, 2016, 05:01:55 am
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?



Why would you want to?
If someone wants to create a senario with less than ideal ships to make it more difficult instead of just increasing the particles and if people bring in a good fleet they will likely downvote the mission for being to far to easy or whatever criteria people use for rating maps.

I feel like missions with less particles and weaker ships will give a good challenge and performance for people with not very good computers.

I will personally never make a map but i am just throwing ideas out there and hoping some real map makers make use of those.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: FishintehPond on September 18, 2016, 05:19:56 am
1. Will it only be available on Steam?
2. Any discount for those who bought the Creeper World games?
3. Also applies to CW3, but how do I update the game? Seems like I have to rebuy it, which is a bit bad for CW3, but a lot worse for Particle Fleet
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 18, 2016, 11:44:50 am
1. Will it only be available on Steam?
2. Any discount for those who bought the Creeper World games?
3. Also applies to CW3, but how do I update the game? Seems like I have to rebuy it, which is a bit bad for CW3, but a lot worse for Particle Fleet

1. There will be a non-Steam version later. keeping the game updated while under development is just a lot easier on Steam since updates are automatic and it only download small increments of the game for the updates, so it's also faster.

2. When (if?) Virgil has bundles, then there will be discounts for buying a bundle. Steam has a mechanism now where if a developer creates a bundle, Steam will take account of previously purchased games in the same bundle to determine a price.  Fastpring (the company that handles sales from Virgil's website) does not have a similar mechanic. I do not believe Virgil has actively explored alternate ways to offer discounts to previous buyers and right now he probably doesn't have time since the deadline for relese is approaching like a speeding train.

3. For CW3: http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/patches.php  all previous games have similar pages. Once Particle Fleet is available, it will have a similar page.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 18, 2016, 01:32:22 pm
PRPL related.

Where can I find a (partially)complete list of PRPL commands? I'm ready to jump in, since I've made a map or two. I know  the wiki is the last priority for you guys right now.... Actually, do you want my help populating the PRPL wiki?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 18, 2016, 01:42:56 pm
PRPL related.

Where can I find a (partially)complete list of PRPL commands? I'm ready to jump in, since I've made a map or two. I know  the wiki is the last priority for you guys right now.... Actually, do you want my help populating the PRPL wiki?

Best right now is if you take scripts in existing Story missions and other Exchange missoins. Planetfall got a lot of PRPL in his missions. Feel free to add and update wiki content.

There really isn't much more than what you see,
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 18, 2016, 08:08:46 pm
I'll assist as well. Any new syntax might need a guide, though.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 20, 2016, 02:35:31 am
I see that the "preview" label is off the main menu, but still in-game. Intentional?

Also, Exchange #27 has a grey background in the mission select carousel, as opposed to the normal blue. Looking back, so do a few earlier missions. Cause?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Xalos on September 20, 2016, 02:42:23 am
Also, Exchange #27 has a grey background in the mission select carousel, as opposed to the normal blue. Looking back, so do a few earlier missions. Cause?

I'm pretty sure all World Editor missions are on one color background, while all Simulacrum missions are on a different color background.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 20, 2016, 08:45:05 am
I see that the "preview" label is off the main menu, but still in-game. Intentional?

Also, Exchange #27 has a grey background in the mission select carousel, as opposed to the normal blue. Looking back, so do a few earlier missions. Cause?

Yeah, took the preview stuff off the main menu along with the eula and other stuff that was used for beta.  It was mostly for the steam approval build (which the game has now passed), but it needed to go anyway.  I left it in the game view but it will go away from there soon.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 20, 2016, 08:45:25 am

Also, Exchange #27 has a grey background in the mission select carousel, as opposed to the normal blue. Looking back, so do a few earlier missions. Cause?

Difference between missions submitted from the Simulacrum or from the map editor
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: SuperTerminator on September 20, 2016, 06:37:04 pm
When making a map will it be possible to force people to use the predesignated fleet instead of a custom one?

Yes, via PRPL, though that's a nasty trick that would likely get you lots of negative votes. Actually this gives me an idea... A custom map generator that uses the player-selected fleet as the seed, assuming the RNG works the same way as it did in CW3... hmm...

Oh gosh, lets hope my CPU likes tens of thousands of particles assaulting my fleet...

Here's an idea: Since the game gives you a total fleet cost, maybe that could be used to amplify emitters, or maybe tie in emitter strength to the cost of ships currently built. Pair that with ship spawners and you've got yourself a grudge match XD.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: SuperTerminator on September 20, 2016, 06:38:14 pm
Sorry for the double post, got distracted while writing this and commented on something else :P

I believe this may have been discussed before, but I'll bring it back up here anyway.

In the future (aka post release), would it be possible to make the HQ ship customizable to an extent? The normal default is cool and all, but considering how much the editor allows for custom ships, it would be nice if we could eventually be able to customize the HQ ship under certain constraints (aka very limited weapon access and limited reactor access/no ports), as well as allowing them to be set by map makers.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: miquelfire on September 20, 2016, 09:51:04 pm
And considering that the HQ in the prologue is different, I don't see why not!
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 22, 2016, 09:02:05 pm
Emitter control claims not to take effect until 100%, but is observable working at 60%. Presumably this is merely versioning, but I'll bring it up.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 22, 2016, 09:25:57 pm
The field it projects ramps in strength up from 0 to 100%.  But at 50% or so it is strong enough to push particles around most of the time.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 22, 2016, 10:12:20 pm
That was my guess, that it hits critical mass at partial strength.

The "?" button in the top-right of the upgrade says that it's all-or-nothing, so that will need a text change.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: gakm4 on September 23, 2016, 12:53:21 pm
Is it possible to create custom victory/defeat conditions and is it possible to set multiple different conditions on the same map with their own unique dialog at the end?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 23, 2016, 01:00:25 pm
Yep! It just requires a bit of PRPL coding. Once the PRPL is populated on the wiki, you can expect people (including yours truly) to make maps with odd objectives.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 24, 2016, 11:36:30 pm
So i was trying to figure out a challagely hard map, anyone have an idea which can be consider very hard. I like to try to test my skills
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 25, 2016, 01:17:40 pm
I also have a 2nd question. I been trying to mess with some ship making, but I been running into a power trouble with it. When the weapons are forced to fire long, it seem, even with i have a full stock of energy that the ship wont power up enough. Is there a trick you guys found, or should I just lower the weapons or something.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Darkmega on September 25, 2016, 02:40:29 pm
I also have a 2nd question. I been trying to mess with some ship making, but I been running into a power trouble with it. When the weapons are forced to fire long, it seem, even with i have a full stock of energy that the ship wont power up enough. Is there a trick you guys found, or should I just lower the weapons or something.

tried having storage or guppies or possibly moving some units out of energy mine but into a tanker's range or something of the sort due to too many things requesting energy too quickly?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 25, 2016, 02:50:10 pm
it was on a custom map, it how i test my ship designs and so the mine had plenty of energy, i always had 100+stored, but I guess the ship needs more energy then can be supplied at once
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Sorrontis on September 26, 2016, 01:28:07 am
Is there a particle's limit? I'm maxing out at 6k, shared between blues & reds.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 26, 2016, 02:04:11 am
Yes, there is. I thought it was 8K, so perhaps ship hulls and virtual particles are included in that.

I can tell you that Virgil was hoping for 2-2.5K particles per map. :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Darkmega on September 26, 2016, 02:08:33 am
but I guess the ship needs more energy then can be supplied at once

Yes, that. in the general how to thread it says that the maximum energy that can be sent per second by a mine is 30 (or something around there) so having far too many ships around a single mine will slow the rate at which the mine sends energy to all the ships cause it can't cope. So placing a few out of range so a bunch of energy goes first to a tanker, and then out from the tanker to units not trying to be sent to by a mine (since ports also have a max of 30 to send) can let you be a little bit funky with what gets energy from what so to spread the fleet out so everything can get enough of it. :V
Is there a particle's limit? I'm maxing out at 6k, shared between blues & reds.
it's apparently depends on the map. but yes, there is a settable limit. Since there's a technique I see some use to snipe out emitters without them doing much cause particles are too busy taking up the spawns somewhere else and they sneak around and blow them up from behind. :D but that also means your particles will overflow and stop spawning aswell if you don't direct them to places they'll be useful and instead they have to time out.

Yes, there is. I thought it was 8K, so perhaps ship hulls and virtual particles are included in that.

I can tell you that Virgil was hoping for 2-2.5K particles per map. :)

D'OH, you sniped me, karsten. :V
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Xalos on September 26, 2016, 02:55:54 am
Yes, that. in the general how to thread it says that the maximum energy that can be sent per second by a mine is 30 (or something around there) so having far too many ships around a single mine will slow the rate at which the mine sends energy to all the ships cause it can't cope.

I thought the rate limit was that ships could only request 30 energy per second, but energy sources (mines, ports) could send energy at unlimited rates?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Darkmega on September 26, 2016, 03:23:58 am
I thought the rate limit was that ships could only request 30 energy per second, but energy sources (mines, ports) could send energy at unlimited rates?

Thoughts on energy supply limits
Tankers won't supply anything in range of a mine, unless it is really starved.  That really only happens after the bridge is built, since bridge construction takes place at a regulated rate.
Tankers (ports) also have a limit of 30 packets per second.  If you need more, you have to get creative with additional tankers and possibly fleet arrangement.

The reason tankers don't supply ships in mine range is because it creates a situation where you are building a tanker and it won't fill up because it is trying to supply other ships nearby that you are building.  So it is 'reluctant' to supply ships in the range of a mine with energy.
For PF each command module is allowed to request up to 1 packet per frame.  They do that so the requests can all be sorted based on a whole slew of criteria.  That's where the 30 pps limit comes from.

I could have gone back for another sweep across "packets requesters", but decided the performance hit from that wouldn't be worth encouraging even larger ships.  So I left the natural constraint which encourages tighter ships.  In terms of lore, we might say that a single ship can only process energy so fast, hence the limitation and the resulting problem some large ships can have.
that. I think... the stuff I bolded. :V by saying "also" I think it's implied that mines will only send up to 30 points per second, each ship can only get a single point per frame. so the sending gets scattered and hence slowed around if theres more than 30 requests to get power in an area in a second. so a ship thats consuming energy faster than it can get it will never get fully charged up... unless you move stuff out and it can get all the energy quickly or you let it charge somewhere where it's not consuming a rediculous amount of energy first then send it back in in bursts.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Relli on September 26, 2016, 10:36:42 am
Mega, that's almost entirely incorrect. Xalos has the right idea. To piggyback the quotes you used: "For PF each command module is allowed to request up to 1 packet per frame. That's where the 30 pps limit comes from." The limit is hard-coded into the bridge of each ship, not the energy sources. Have you ever built multiple ships or Omnis at once and seen that solid green line heading to each of them? If the energy line is completely solid like that, that's your 30 energy per second. Breaks in it occur when you're getting less than that amount, whether that's all it takes to fill the tank, or you're too starved for energy to give it its full value. Assuming you had the energy production to pull it off, potentially any number of ships should be able to get the full 30 per second from a single energy mine. I hope that helps clear things up a bit.
Oh, and as a bonus, 1 second is equal to 30 frames. So the "1 packet per frame" means the same thing as "30 packets per second".
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 26, 2016, 11:08:38 am
But if one ship is way to powerful, it possible to suffer energy drain on the ship due to the 30 packet rule, sorta like thor in cw3 when trying to keep all weapon going for to long.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Darkmega on September 26, 2016, 04:10:36 pm
then why have I witnessed fleets get power backlogged and certain super power hungry custom ships still having dark bridges perpetually when a large number of ships is in the general area and the power power store is still maxed and sending? :V is that just the ship eating more than 30 power per second? O.o maybe I'm just outright misremembering what I saw. Cause I thought there was an episode where shadeofdead hit that problem where he had to move a ship outside the power zone so that the tanker would send it power instead cause there was too much stuff trying to get power at once... unless he was just out of energy and the tanker was reluctant to use it's storage as a buffer cause it was in the zone... >_> ... yeah, maybe thats what it was... (shame on me, for thinking I know a thing or two just by reading some stuff and watching most of the videos out. :V)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: GoodMorning on September 26, 2016, 06:38:10 pm
Because most small ship designs are very close to one or other of the stock ships, custom ships are often large. This makes it all too easy to build a design which can use more than 30 eps. At that point internal power sources are required.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Ovalcircle on September 26, 2016, 06:52:45 pm
This might be a stupid question, but what happens to  beta testers when the full game releases? Do we have to buy it or do we get it for free?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 26, 2016, 07:16:28 pm
This might be a stupid question, but what happens to  beta testers when the full game releases? Do we have to buy it or do we get it for free?

All keys that have been issued are good for the full release of the game.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Killer007lite on September 27, 2016, 05:18:22 pm
Just wondering, where will all of the Exchange maps that have been made actually go?
Will there be an "Alpha Zone" like in CW3 or will they just stay there?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 27, 2016, 05:31:21 pm
Most likely they will just stay in the Exchange.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: planetfall on September 27, 2016, 05:49:33 pm
Will the soundtrack/CITG be available direct from kc? I have reservations about steam...
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: knucracker on September 27, 2016, 08:54:35 pm
It will...
Right now (while the 9 versions of the game are building), I'm actually setting up fastspring and all of the non-steam stuff.  The addon pack won't be there on Thursday, I won't make the deadline for that. But next week perhaps.  All depends on how much of the sky falls on Thursday :)
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: SuperTerminator on September 28, 2016, 08:51:30 am
It will...
Right now (while the 9 versions of the game are building), I'm actually setting up fastspring and all of the non-steam stuff.  The addon pack won't be there on Thursday, I won't make the deadline for that. But next week perhaps.  All depends on how much of the sky falls on Thursday :)

This is how I imagine people will react to the game release on thursday:

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fantastic.gif)

This is how it will be for you:

(http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/scared/scared01.gif)

It's been a fun ride, though it ain't over yet :P. The fun with this game has just begun :P.

Now, why build 9 versions of the game? I can understand 3 (steam, standalone, demo), but why 9?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Krossi on September 28, 2016, 09:20:30 am
Win, Mac, Linux and for each: Steam, StandAlone, Demo, maybe??
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Karsten75 on September 28, 2016, 09:43:39 am
Win, Mac, Linux and for each: Steam, StandAlone, Demo, maybe??

This.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: SuperTerminator on September 28, 2016, 11:43:35 am
Win, Mac, Linux and for each: Steam, StandAlone, Demo, maybe??

This.

Q_Q I'm an idiot xD. That makes sense, shoulda figured that out xD.
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: jbrush13 on September 28, 2016, 01:50:10 pm
plus probably x32 and x64 versions
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Th3ch053n0n3 on September 28, 2016, 11:23:12 pm
So when my energy mines take damage, I can never tell if they heal over time. Do they automatically heal, or do they need to be destroyed and rebuilt to return to full health? If it's the latter, could you add in the ability for lathes to repair mines post-release?
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Tjgalon on September 28, 2016, 11:29:29 pm
So when my energy mines take damage, I can never tell if they heal over time. Do they automatically heal, or do they need to be destroyed and rebuilt to return to full health? If it's the latter, could you add in the ability for lathes to repair mines post-release?
They will heal them self over time
Title: Re: General Questions
Post by: Th3ch053n0n3 on September 29, 2016, 12:05:36 am
-snip-
They will heal them self over time

Actually, that would be a good feature anyway, now that I think about it.... there are some of the demo maps where I've had a lathe sitting right next to a damaged mine, and nothing to do with it, because I'm currently fighting off a wave or something else of the like.