This topic is for discussion of map #1092: Fortress PAC
(https://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld4/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1092)
Author: WithersChat
Size: 221x221
Love these maps! Very fun
i couldn't seem to be able to get the lure to work
Why do you feel the need to make such bad changes to a great game? First was the need to give the enemy AI, which means they move when their units die and makes it virtually impossible to play the game without gimping it. Then you change the mesh for the worst. Nothing seems to make it work the correct way and frankly, the best game was the first game. I really hope you play the game without cheats when you playtest the maps so you see how some of the changes are NOT for the better.
Quote from: Jican on March 20, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
Why do you feel the need to make such bad changes to a great game? First was the need to give the enemy AI, which means they move when their units die and makes it virtually impossible to play the game without gimping it. Then you change the mesh for the worst. Nothing seems to make it work the correct way and frankly, the best game was the first game. I really hope you play the game without cheats when you playtest the maps so you see how some of the changes are NOT for the better.
The one with AI was not by WithersChat, but by another map author, qople. The mesh now is now more like it was in CW3 pac, where it's a lot easier to lay down, at the expense of subtracting 1 creeper from a tile where it's created. Honestly I think this system is a lot better because it's much easier to get larger amounts of mesh. The only side effect is you have to be slightly more active about laying it down, but it also avoids lag and allows you to place it under enemy buildings, etc. Unlike cw3 however, the mesh isn't always something you want to cover the entire map with, but this update made it a lot more usable in my opinion.
Also, any map has to be played without cheats to upload, that's the way the game works.
Quote from: Durikkan on March 20, 2021, 09:43:38 PM
The one with AI was not by WithersChat, but by another map author, qople.
Ah, I see. That makes sense. While I disagree with the mesh comment, it is nice to know that multiple people are attempting to make the PAC maps. I hope to see some positive changes to the type of map soon.
I prefer this map's method for laying down mesh.
While the map is interesting, it felt really slow. Admittedly, the first time I played I didn't notice the AC Breeder in one area of the map.
Flipping on the editor I had a blast adding in blobs, traditional spore launchers (with eggs!), and air sacs. Even with such, unless I went really overboard it took a long time to win. I'm willing to admit the possibility that I suck at PAC, lol.
I appreciate the work put into the map. I'm looking forward to more.
Once I properly read the ADA message and saw you could adjust the mesh place size, I am much fonder of this method than the previous one.
that was fun.
Quote from: Jican on March 20, 2021, 06:38:43 PM
Why do you feel the need to make such bad changes to a great game?
"Such bad changes" doesn't seem to be the most popular opinion
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First was the need to give the enemy AI, which means they move when their units die and makes it virtually impossible to play the game without gimping it.
1) The AI was given by someone else (Qople) on another map. I won't use it.
2) Some people find the AI more enjoyable to battle against than the default mode. It is indeed harder, but it makes you feel like you're actually fighting something, and not just come to destroy.
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Then you change the mesh for the worst.
Ok, now you lost me. I mean, using mesh is SOOO much easier now, what's the problem?
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Nothing seems to make it work the correct way and frankly, the best game was the first game.
An insane amount of people complained about the first map, because of mesh placement and lag. I just listened to feedback.
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I really hope you play the game without cheats when you playtest the maps so you see how some of the changes are NOT for the better.
I do NOT use cheats. 2 reasons for that:
1) Only way to use cheats to upload a map would be to add external plugins, and I don't want it, neither I know how to do it.
2) That would break the whole idea, right? I played the whole map once, and I tried starting in all four corners to be sure it's possible (Stopped at the first factory destropyed).
Quote from: Jican on March 20, 2021, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: Durikkan on March 20, 2021, 09:43:38 PM
The one with AI was not by WithersChat, but by another map author, qople.
Ah, I see. That makes sense. While I disagree with the mesh comment, it is nice to know that multiple people are attempting to make the PAC maps. I hope to see some positive changes to the type of map soon.
I believe you owe the map maker an apology. Furthermore, your initial assertions that stated
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I really hope you play the game without cheats when you playtest the maps so you see how some of the changes are NOT for the better.
Is un unwarranted attack on his integrity for which you have no proof. If you persist in accusing people here of using cheats, and you do not have proof to back you up, you will be removed from these boards.
My issues with this new mesh: Emitters don't have mesh made under them, but if you click an emitter while drawing mesh it selects the the emitter instead (which is annoying). Workaround: Start making mesh somewhere else, and drag it TOWARDS the center of the emitter.
Before you could just drag to create a straight line, but now sometimes it ends up broken in the middle because the creeper wasn't deep enough or the screen scrolled too fast, and near the edges you have to keep clicking/waiting for it to be deep enough.
When I attacked the upper right, emitters over breeder terrain didn't seem to be able to connect mesh at all (though I'm not sure that's specific to this change as I don't remember breeder in the previous levels).
Edit: Whoops, copy and paste. Anyway, the level itself is a lot of fun, and you have to be aggressive enough to get some erns before the anticreeper takes over.
Quote from: Karzon on March 21, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
My issues with this new mesh: Emitters don't have mesh made under them, but if you click an emitter while drawing mesh it selects the the emitter instead (which is annoying). Workaround: Start making mesh somewhere else, and drag it TOWARDS the center of the emitter.
Yeah, I could make evrything unselectable during mesh placement maybe?
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When I attacked the upper right, emitters over breeder terrain didn't seem to be able to connect mesh at all (though I'm not sure that's specific to this change as I don't remember breeder in the previous levels).
Breeder prevents mesh from being placed, so... (Note that the center of the emitter is where mesh grows)
Im sorry but I hated it. too many op units and lack of tools to defeat them. The Lure is meant to keep the enemy from firing on creeper, yet it doesnt function unless its submerged in creeper? uhh okay lol. I like the concept, and had a lot more fun playing the map where there were actually some special weapons to use.
Cool concept, took me a moment to figure out the mesh as I haven't played CW3 but seems cool. Unfortunately maps too hard for me, can't seem to get up the final lip to the first factory. Keep up the Good work though, play as creeper is a cool game mode.
Quote from: Karsten75 on March 21, 2021, 09:21:40 AM
Is un unwarranted attack on his integrity for which you have no proof. If you persist in accusing people here of using cheats, and you do not have proof to back you up, you will be removed from these boards.
Taken completely out of context and no where did I accuse anyone of anything. How about you not threaten the customer base over emotional posts such as this. Not really a good look. As for cheats, I have never created a map, nor do I know what requirements are needed to upload one. Is this like Mario Maker where the creator has to beat the map at least once before uploading it, or can they simply upload unbeatable trash? There are a few maps that are posted that require specific glitches and understanding how the game processes certain negative events, such as too much creep in a single grid. That's MY definition of cheating. No where in any of my posts did I claim someone was cheating.
Quote from: Jican on March 23, 2021, 11:47:29 PM
Is this like Mario Maker where the creator has to beat the map at least once before uploading it, or can they simply upload unbeatable trash?
Yup, like mario maker. If it wasn't there would be insane amount of trash actually...
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There are a few maps that are posted that require specific glitches and understanding how the game processes certain negative events, such as too much creep in a single grid. That's MY definition of cheating.
It happens that this may be unfair, but it's not actual cheating. But if maps using this aren't marked as puzzle maps or things like that, then it's still kinda unfair. However, it's entirely done in-game without hacks, so it's not reportable or anything.
Yea, i understand that, but manipulating game functions to achieve a purpose is still cheating in my eyes. It's good to know maps must be beat before they can be posted.
hmmm. i had an issue where i could not place mesh very well, took 30+ tries to place any, and there were some spots with 6 deep creeper that wouldn't take mesh... very confused.
edit: OH! i've realized that AC breeder was stopping me from placing mesh! top right spawn is much harder than i thought :(
The factories are too well guarded, I was able to take over my corner of the map easily enough but I cant get anywhere near the factories.
Great intro to PAC map!
I like how every quadrant begs to be tackled in a certain way.
I'd say that it was too long to execute vs the time it takes to figure it out.
All those comments and still no walkthrough...
Quote from: hbarudi on August 21, 2021, 05:33:08 PM
All those comments and still no walkthrough...
Each quadrant has to be tackled in a different way:
- Bottom right has lots of cannons but no snipers, so you can throw blobs and skimmers at tower concentrations.
- Bottom left has lots of snipers but minimal cannons and mortars, so you can rush them with crimsonated creeper
- Top left has plenty of mortars but no air defence, so move quick (or use lures) and use spores
- Top right has AC towers, but no snipers or air defence, so balance your creep production while taking out the AC towers with launchers
Fight your way to a factory, picking up the ERNs then move onto the next quadrant, adjusting your tactics as you go.
I was struggling at first as I started bottom right and I like the double emitter/crimson convertor, which doesn't work in that quadrant so had to restart a couple times. Once I spotted the differences in defences, I started bottom left instead and cleared it first time.