I have a bunch of ideas.
First, unit ideas:
Cannon (working title): This thing is basically a souped-up Mortar with one disadvantage: It's oriented in a certain direction and can only fire in that direction ( chosen at creation.) Being able to edit that would be nice, but not vital, and if it did happen, would cost energy and/or time.
Tower Collector: Like a Collector, but you can build something else on top of it. Would either be more expensive than a normal Collector or would be built from a normal Collector- i.e, as sort of an individual upgrade. If something was on top of it, you wouldn't be able to select the Tower Collector (after all, why would you want to destroy it?). The thing on top would be directly networked to the Tower Collector, in addition to anything else within range. Basically, a space-saving implement. It could, theoretically, increase the the height of the thing on top by 1 for the purpose of Blasters, but I would think that would make it overpowered.Another, similar idea is to have it extend the range of weapons on top.
Note: Ideas SIMILAR to this may have been suggested, but possibly not.
Next, other stuff:
Suspend Walls: Be able to say that Walls go from Y1 height to Y2 height in the map editor. Why? So we can hide emitters in pits with 'roofs'. That would be downright diabolical. Also, Mortars shouldn't be able to fire through such roofs. And their blast effect shouldn't do anything either. Heck, perhaps the player might not even be able to see what's under there. If the latter is true, it might be remedied with a special building, but I personally think that unless advanced terrain (i.e, bridges, caves, multiple layers, et cetera) was implemented as well and this was the only thing that could see down there without going down there (or it had some other use), such a unit would be too gimmicky.
'Fog of War': Basically, be able to make it so that you can't see the map normally. You have to explore it with your buildings to reveal the terrain. Normal buildings have a short line of sight, but there is a building (let's call it a Lighthouse) with a very long line of sight. You can always see the terrain and any Nanobots, Pods, Totems, Upgrades, walls and emitters once that area has been seen once, but Creeper is invisible unless in your current line of sight, and if the above have changed, you won't know unless you see that area again. Again, more challenge, particularly with the above.
Some neat ideas... I think the "lighthouse" should be like a radar and scan the entire map and update you every few seconds.
Fog of war..... hmmmm. That one definitely goes on the list as a possibility for the expansion.
Well it is how the Creeper came to be. :)
Regarding the 'Fog of war': bear in mind that maps are not randomly generated. They can be played a second and a third time. I would certainly make a screenshot after completing it the first time. I like the idea of exploring however!
Quote from: virgilw on March 10, 2010, 11:07:28 PM
Fog of war..... hmmmm. That one definitely goes on the list as a possibility for the expansion.
Sounds like my Nothing but void map, but much more simple! If this is implemented, I hope its changed so that buildings get X amount of Sq's seen. =D
Quote from: virgilw on March 10, 2010, 11:07:28 PM
Fog of war..... hmmmm. That one definitely goes on the list as a possibility for the expansion.
If you 're going to do this, then perhaps an indestructible "beacon" unit that we can place in certain places to illuminate/warn of impending creeper?
But as UKees said, the maps are static, so it's a one-time only deal. And in fact, an annoying one-time only deal, since you may have played for 15-20 minutes, then lost becasue of stuff and then you have to restart.
Quote from: Karsten75 on March 11, 2010, 01:18:12 PM
an indestructible "beacon" unit that we can place in certain places to illuminate/warn of impending creeper
I like!
you could have a building that ,kind of like what karsten said, could reveal a large amount of the map and an upgrade that increases all buildings LOS. also mortars would not have a very high LOS so something would have to spot the target for them. and the drone platforms could have a version with a scouting ship. and it would have to be optional on the map editor.
The replaying problem can't be helped.
I use it in all RTS with fog of war. ^_^
Several ideas added, & Tower Collector edited.
Quote from: Twi on March 10, 2010, 07:22:29 PM
'Fog of War': Basically, be able to make it so that you can't see the map normally. You have to explore it with your buildings to reveal the terrain. Normal buildings have a short line of sight, but there is a building (let's call it a Lighthouse) with a very long line of sight. You can always see the terrain and any Nanobots, Pods, Totems, Upgrades, walls and emitters once that area has been seen once, but Creeper is invisible unless in your current line of sight, and if the above have changed, you won't know unless you see that area again. Again, more challenge, particularly with the above.
Uh huh, now we need smoke emitters.
That reduce line of sight into and through smoke?
Approved.
all of of this sounds nice, BUT, we need much bigger maps for this to work,like with scrolling
This is true.
I've heard several times around this site that bigger maps are in the works for the expansion.
I like the fog of war idea =)
There has been some custom maps that have been made working kind of that way ,
by changing the colors .
But fog of war is much better .
Bunch of new stuff added. See "Support Buildings", and everything after fog of war.
Yet more stuff added.
Actually, just "Wireless Relays" and fixed the info for Rough Terrain.
Seriously, while you may have good ideas, there is no way I'm going to go back and read the entire first post again just to try and figure out what you have added or changed. Besides, it is hard to tell what you change in an existing description.
Point.
Triple post go, then.
Non- unit new stuff:
Weather/Terrain Types: To add more variety:
Climate/Weather: Something in certain stages to change things up. For example:
Dry: Causes Creeper to move more sluggishly. Increases effectiveness of fire.
Humid: Decreases effectiveness of fire.
Cold: Randomly freezes Creeper, makes cold weapons better and heat weapons worse.
Hot: Randomly burns Creeper, makes heat weapons better and cold weapons worse.
Low Pressure: Causes Creeper to spread out more vertically.
High Pressure: Causes Creeper to spread out more horizontally.
Low Gravity: See Low Pressure. Also, increases the range of Mortars, SAMs, and other projectile launchers.
High Gravity: Inverse of Low Gravity, of course.
Energy Saturated: Makes green Collector areas collect more energy. (Not sure how this would work story-wise, given that Collectors "tap into fractal space for energy".)
Terrain Types: Special terrain. For example:
Lava: Nothing can be built there, and Creeper can't go over it. Useful for making chokepoints and islands.
Energy-Rich: See Energy Saturated, but for areas of land. Would add another dimension to strategies.
Rough Terrain: Can't be built on, but slows down Creeper as long as it's 1 layer thick or less (or a half a layer, or something). Again, chokepoints.
Minefield: Have lots of mines, they go boom.
Weak Ground: If enough weight is applied to an area of this (say, , assign each building and amount of Creeper a weight value, and your equation would be X building weight +Y Creeper weight is greater than or equal to Z strength which is the strength of each tile added together), the terrain will collapse down a layer.
Vents: In accordance with fog of war, vents throw up thick smoke directly above them that blocks line of sight.
Neutral Buildings: Stationary buildings you can capture by putting a unit down next to. Destructibility may vary. Examples:
Watch Tower: For fog of war, has a very large line of sight. Indestructible.
Fortress: Powerful but immobile defensive structure that shoots at Creeper. Probably equiped with multiple weapons: i.e, four Blasters or Pulse Cannons. Has a large health bar and is usually placed on high ground.
Production Plant: See Production Facility, but stationary. Has a health bar.
Research Lab: Enables various upgrades for your stuff. Indestructible.
Wall Builder: Uses energy to build walls. Has a health bar.
Infamous triple post gives you unit-related new stuff:
Pulse Cannon:Basically a Blaster version of the Cannon.
Flamethrower: Does damage at short range along a line. Otherwise self-explanatory. It burns stuff, and it's good for blocking chokepoints. It should probably be something of a "medium" weapon, between Blasters and Mortars.
Ice Beam: Variation of the above which freezes the Creeper it attacks, stopping it and making it harmless- for a short time. The ice-based concept could be applied to something more Blaster-like, but these should probably fire relatively slowly so that they can't just freeze everything.
Support Buildings: Buildings that improve nearby weapons within a certain radius. I've thought of two flavors, ones that increase fire rate and ones that increase fire range. They can't move and don't have health bars.
Wireless Relay: Big, expensive Relay that can connect with any Wireless Relay anywhere. But you pay a price: Each one consumes ammo packets to function.
Network Booster (working title): This thing increases the linking range of anything directly attached to it by X amount (or X percent, if it goes like that). Basically, it's for larger distances, since we're having larger maps.
Sensor Tower: Combination of the buildings described in below two non-unit ideas.
Production Facility: A big building that produces packets. It can produce, say, half the number of packets per second that Odin City can, and it can move, but it doesn't collect energy. Again, for larger maps, since larger maps means larger fronts means more stuff to do at once.
(Note: I vaguely remember something like this being discussed, but it was dead and I forgot where it was. >_>)
Twi, I like it all!
Sweet.
Holy heck in a hand basket!
That be quite the list.
Great ideas, oddly enough if you think about it, this would add to both the tower defense side of the game and to the RTS side of the game.
Although I have the impression I'm looking at a completely different game, I like a lot of things here. I have to admit that I'm rather hesitant with changes to a game I love so much, but from experience with other games I know I like these kind of weapons/buildings/structures. I guess I have to let go of my resistance against change.
I've seen some of your idea's in other (similar) suggestions as well, but if I put it together it could become a very nice expansion. At least I don't see ridiculous proposals as I've often read here on the forums over the past 2 months....
As I like going for the high scores, the wireless relay immediately has my attention. ;) Can I build it remotely as well? If I can, it may consume as much energy as it wishes for the few seconds I need it! :D If not, does it do anything else but shorten the (already existing) packet routes? And does it keep working after it loses connection to the network (if so, how does it consume energy)?
Building it remotely? No. It has to be set up before it can recieve energy.
But it beams energy, so...yeah, it's a connection.
Technically there are two kinds of packets at the moment: build packets and ammo packets, both created out of energy. Once packets they're not energy anymore. For this reason packets can't be used for something else than what they were created for (as Virgil explained somewhere). So I guess you're introducing operation packets now (which doesn't have to be a problem). You would have to display them in a different colour and they wouldn't follow the lines, but just fly through the air, along with the build and ammo packets it is transporting.
We can say it changes the packets back to energy and back again.
A couple of new ideas:
Combining Reactors/Storage/Speed to Make Stuff: Fairly self-explanatory. Since those types of buildings are often put right next to each other, it makes sense to allow them to be combined.Say, four of one of them in a square would be a good number. What they might be combined into:
Big whatever: Basically, does the same thing its components did, but does it better.
Bunkered Whatever: Has the same usefullness as it's parts, but has a health bar. Seems like these things shouldn't be in danger, though....
Friendly Creeper Emitter: Already been suggested, but combining 4 Reactors into this would be a good idea.
Transport Ship: A large craft which you can load a unit into by landing the ship on top of that. It moves slowly through the air and can plop the unit down at any valid location. Movement is similar to that of Blasters and Mortars. Basically, it's for getting things in places that are hard to reach: i.e, islands surrounded by thick lava or lots of Creeper or terrain you can't build on or a combination of those things.
TRANSPORT SHIP!!!!!!!!
What a good idea,that would save hundreds of packets,and if you have to abandon part of your network,you can ship the speed and reactors and save your energy surplus!!!!!!
GENIUS!!!!!
sorry,that was supposed to say genuis and glow lime green,but it failed.
Whoa. Didn't realize it was quite that powerful.
But it can only move one unit at a time. And it shouldn't come that cheap. I came up with it largely for Wireless Relays: how else are you going to get power to those areas?
And how did you do that...oh.
Like this.
But how do you change the color? I mean, I put Color: Limegreen there. It still glows red.
on the right of all the buttons there is a change color thingy.
and there should be a limit to haw may trips it can do,like 7 or something,then they self destruct.
or,recharge every 5ish trips like drones,but at less frequent intervals.say,15 packets per trip,no matter how long/short the trip.
Yeah, I used it.
But how do they have "trips"? They don't have a base, at least not as I thought of them. They don't require energy to move, either, as I thought of them. Expensive, but they need no energy to actually move.
EDIT: I suppose they could require fuel from ammo packets...
like,drone trips i guess,but like,they could have a fuel gauge around them like odin city has,and when i needs fuel,it hovers until you click on odin city(or a fuel plant?) and enable{send fuel}
But how is this fuel send when it is not connected to the network? I think it's better to let it refuel when connected. If it runs out of fuel during a flight you would have to reconnect to the ship to get it refuelled again.
well,yes,you wouldn't be trying to send a reactor into creeper would you?
And it doesnt have to land,it could haover in place till it gets connected
Hmmm, I guess the craft would often be used in the following cases:
- Evacuation of an area. I can imagine you have to move stuff over a mountain range/pool of creeper where no connection to the network is available. Hovering when connected is not even necessary. For example: a blaster that requested ammo can still receive this while flying in the air; it just can't request more. This ship would be able to do so.
- Building collectors/relays in advance, to be able to expand your network quickly. The combo of this craft in combination with the wireless relay looks very powerful!
- Grouping buildings to create the above proposed combined buildings.
The more I think about this, the more I want to use these units! It would greatly extend the number of ways to finish a map and offer the possibility to develop many different strategies. I guess balancing everything would be the hardest job.
One thing ive thought, of. would these be able to be use as floating connections that go over anything?
I mean think about it, floating connections that cost a lot, can be moved around, dont collect energy, or have long range
The ships? I never thought of using them that way... but why would you want to do that? If you wanted a connection to anywhere, you build two Wireless Relays, load one in a ship, and plop it down wherever.
And no, they don't make their own connections.
Edit to Fog of War idea: Being on a hill means you get more LOS, and being in a depression means you get less LOS.
LOS ??? ??? ???
what is that?
Evrything sounds good
there has to be new stuff in the expansion and this could be it.
heres one
Lighning tower: Very long range, fires blast of electricity in thin line, cuts through creep and long reload
LOS = Line Of Sight
Quote from: werty892 on March 14, 2010, 08:46:47 PM
Lighning tower: Very long range, fires blast of electricity in thin line, cuts through creep and long reload
So how would this help? The creeper will almost immediately fill up a thin line in its mass. Would have been good if there was a "body" to hit, but that's not the case here.
When it would not have a long reload time, but just is expensive to build or consumes a lot of energy, I could see a purpose for the lightning tower:
Put a few of them next to each other and let them fire in parallel. This would create a path through the Creeper. (Nickname: 'Mozes-tower' ;))
That would be sweet.
Quote from: UpperKEES on March 14, 2010, 08:59:03 PM
When it would not have a long reload time, but just is expensive to build or consumes a lot of energy, I could see a purpose for the lightning tower:
Put a few of them next to each other and let them fire in parallel. This would create a path through the Creeper. (Nickname: 'Mozes-tower' ;))
I can do that cheaply with a bunch of blasters. There is no point in creating and designing such special-purpose towers.
You can't create a path through a huge pool of Creeper without advancing step by step. Especially with larger maps this could be useful.
Imagine you'd have to cross half of the map (covered by Creeper). At the moment you would for instance need 8 blasters to keep that path open. With the lightning tower you only need 3 of them (side by side). Terrain elevations might be a problem, but on flat maps I want my lightning tower! :P
There's just no arguing with you. is there?
Oh yes you can. And I agree with you about 50% of the time when I look at the forum statistics... ;)
The range is VERY long, it could probably fire halfway across a map
Here's an idea:
Phase Tower: It consumes ammo packets for energy, but only when activated. When activated, it would allow you to phase one building out of normal space. This would disable all of the building's functions, but leave it impervious to harm. This would allow you to keep buildings like a wireless relay or production facility safe if the position was being overrun by the creeper.
that sound a lot like just moving it, and then you won't lose it if your phase tower runs out of power and there's still creep there
For once, I agree with Werty. Also, you should put it in a different topic.
Thank you