Hi everyone. I'm new here so i don't know how things going here, but i have a strange(maybe stupid) question.
I finished the Frykt: Vapen level(finally ;) but then i noticed something that give me a BOOM.
A guy who calls himself S*CK IT completed this level in half minute. :o
Is that even possible or it's just a fake?
I have a pic to prove it if needed
Well, he's obviously just cheating.
Quote from: greatatemi on June 23, 2014, 04:24:00 PM
Hi everyone. I'm new here so i don't know how things going here, but i have a strange(maybe stupid) question.
I finished the Frykt: Vapen level(finally ;) but then i noticed something that give me a BOOM.
A guy who calls himself S*CK IT completed this level in half minute. :o
Is that even possible or it's just a fake?
I have a pic to prove it if needed
Time Hackers rule the whole franchise, bub. I have seen impossible times on all 3 games both in every genre of map (story, custom, bonus, random, etc.).
I agree with you, but the worst thing in this problem, that they ACTUALLY post their time, witch is (for me) unacceptable
Here is the pic for show
Furthermore, imagine how many people have/are/will flip(ped) their lids about such things like the Steam achievement that requires you to finish within the top 10 times of one particular map all because of this blasted hacking.
Unless there are some really tough or really creative maps and/or possibly if these maps are solved by achievement go-getters really quickly after they are introduced, this hacking would otherwise have to be nonexistant.
And posting these impossible times, I am with you there, greatatemi. I have heard of the concept "adding insult to injury", but "faking victories that appear to have been acquired with impossibly low time consumption among an audience that strives to earn victories while employing low time consumption with sheer skill, strength, and strategy" like we're all supposed to is among my LEAST favorite applications to this concept.
There ought to be a law.
I can understand that there a need to cheat sometimes, but to then post it like you did something great, that just dumb.
What I don't understand is why the uploading of a time/score isn't simply all the events the player did. Each mouse click and keyboard click at their specific time. Then it is always possible to check whether it was a fake submission.
It is incredibly easy to implement and check.
Years ago I made a Sokoban game where uploading a score meant uploading all your steps. That way cheating is much harder.
Quote from: iycgtptyarvg on August 29, 2014, 11:18:49 AM
What I don't understand is why the uploading of a time/score isn't simply all the events the player did. Each mouse click and keyboard click at their specific time. Then it is always possible to check whether it was a fake submission.
It is incredibly easy to implement and check.
Years ago I made a Sokoban game where uploading a score meant uploading all your steps. That way cheating is much harder.
APM!
That's it! Determining this will certainly help sort out the knights from the knaves.
which A's PM may be harder to track, so here's step one in moving towards that harder tracking method.
Maybe we could have the ability to flag map scores, and a mod reviews the reports and deletes cheating times.
Right now I do that by hand.... every few weeks (or when I remember to get to it). It is always very helpful if I have specific examples to go look for on maps. I start with those, then compare across maps and clean things up. Perhaps the most cost effective way would be for me to just create a topic people can post suspicious scores to. I always have to be careful, since somebody can report legit scores. But looking at the poster (how long they have been around and their forum history) can help me with that.
So let's see how this works:
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=17076.0
This topic comes up often and we unanimously agree that it's dishonest and insulting to the hardworking and skilled. However, most of the time somebody adds the statement "I understand there's sometimes a need to cheat..." and I'm never quite sure about that statement. Not trying to be combative or anything, but I'm struggling to find an example where cheating is necessary. I could see "Sometimes cheating can be fun" or "Sometimes cheating is useful" but I don't know that it's ever needed. The answer probably lies in semantics so here's the definition I'm using - cheat: to violate the rules. I totally get that in the context of video games the more common definition - to defraud or deceive - is not the definition we're using.
If the game offers rules a player uses to overcome a certain challenge, then cheating would be when the player violates the games' rules in order to overcome the challenge or at least give the appearance that they have. Right? So I'm not seeing where that's ever something you need to do - after all the game provided you a path that stayed within the rules.
Well, sometimes there are really frustrating maps that you desperately want to do, or you have the need to complete this one map, or maybe you just want to get the achievement.
Quote from: Asbestos on September 03, 2014, 06:57:41 PM
Well, sometimes there are really frustrating maps that you desperately want to do, or you have the need to complete this one map, or maybe you just want to get the achievement.
Umm.
It's not an
achievement if you cheat.
Besides, if you're cheating to "earn" something, why submit the score?
No, the Born Leader achievement. You know, on Steam?
Quote from: Cavemaniac on September 04, 2014, 05:29:12 PM
Umm.
It's not an achievement if you cheat.
Quote from: Asbestos on September 04, 2014, 05:59:53 PM
No, the Born Leader achievement. You know, on Steam?
I believe Cavemaniac is pointing out that the word achievement means you've achieved something but the word cheat means you haven't achieved something. It's a contradiction in terms to say you got your achievement by cheating. Sure, technically on Steam it's still called an achievement either way, but you know whether you've actually earned it.
So the answer I'm getting is "when we say need we actually mean really, really want." And I'm good with that. It seems like everyone here is good with that, so long as the cheated score doesn't get posted, because that pushes every legitimate score down the list. And those who achieve don't get the achievement because those who faked the achievement got the achievement. That is unjust. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some bug in the game that the only workaround would be to cheat, or some other scenario in which cheating is literally the only course of action to keep the gameplay going.
So, there was this game I really liked in my youth that was 97 hours long.
But when it got translated to the USA, our localized copy somehow broke savepoints. This game was now unsavable.
I considered it a valid reason to cheat and enable the ability to save anywhere.
______
We have a stickied thread with a save data that is at the end of Farbor: Some people are not good enough to beat content, but they want to see the rest of the game, and do not believe future content will be too difficult for them.
______
I have a game on steam that has achievements for beating the game on Normal, Hard, and Easy. Normally when you beat a game on hard, it auto gives the easy and normal achievements, this game didn't. I loaded my 'endgame' data and used a hack to reduce the difficulty to normal, and then another time to easy, to collect the other achievments. I deem that convenience more than 'neccesity', but it saved me 90 hours.
______
Those are my three examples of when cheating can be considered "necessary" by someone. I'm strongly against cheating normally, but can understand the reasoning behind these.
This game does not have different "difficulty" levels, and already allows you to save anywhere. There are YouTube videos showing exactly how to beat Farbor.
Cheating is never necessary -- it's always a choice. You do not need to get all the achievements or complete all the maps, you want to. I find no pleasure in having badges I did not actually earn. I may eventually read walk-thru guides or watch videos if I can't figure it out on my own, but then I actually do it -- and some people may feel that method is "cheating" to some degree. You are certainly free to play your copy of the game your way, to get enjoyment out of it.
Several of the steam achievements for this game have served only to flood Colonial Space with cruddy achievement maps, however it also spurred a number of people to purchase the game which is good for V. Good for V means we get another game out of him in the future, so we'll suffer the occassional achivement map. I play the non-steam version of CW3 and don't bother with the achievements.
CheatEngine is fun, and that's the point, right? I've used it to go back through classic ROMs and steal NPCs' OP weapons. My brother used it to give Samus's armor a spiffy recolor in Super Metroid, and a black sword in A Link to the Past that set monsters on fire.
It's the score submissions that irk me [and everyone else]. I'd laugh if someone posted a time of 0:00:1 on an obscure and distant Prospector map once, but the flood of <30 second times in the starting systems is obnoxious.
Quote from: Lz_erk on October 23, 2014, 02:43:10 PM
CheatEngine is fun, and that's the point, right? I've used it to go back through classic ROMs and steal NPCs' OP weapons. My brother used it to give Samus's armor a spiffy recolor in Super Metroid, and a black sword in A Link to the Past that set monsters on fire.
It's the score submissions that irk me [and everyone else]. I'd laugh if someone posted a time of 0:00:1 on an obscure and distant Prospector map once, but the flood of <30 second times in the starting systems is obnoxious.
Considering the fact that the CW series is a product of independent work instead of corporate work like the Metroid series, there is an achievement on Steam for a place in the top 10 times, this series has the overall competence and popularity to stand up to corporate series', and CheatEngines are meant to assist when necessary instead of ruin perfectly good game concepts like good time scores, this should not be happening AT ALL.
One of the ADMINs, virgilw, has a thread up where he has requested that players report impossible scores so that he can manually clean up some of the hacked times.
Look for the thread "Suspicious Scores and Inappropriate Names".
virgilw is the developer, and also an admin, FYI.
I'm pretty sure virgilw is also the only admin. Everyone else is just moderators, right?
Quote from: Michionlion on November 14, 2014, 02:23:09 PM
virgilw is the developer, and also an admin, FYI.
I thought that was the case, but I didn't wan't to mis-state facts since I wasn't certain.
Thanks for the info.
LTR