I was just playing a map with a prebuilt Thor and noticed that even with optimal energy production and plenty of energy upgrades, the packet request rate of the Thor was not enough to resupply it for its cannons alone. (They fire faster than the Thor gets new packets)
And with fire rate upgrades, it appeared that even just having one cannon operational (And in both scenarios, the other cannon, beams, and sniper gun were off) would drain energy faster than the Thor could be resupplied.
Plus, I can't remember exactly if this other thing hjas turned out like I think it has, but it appears that the Main Cannon will aim for the nearest creeper if there is no Nexus instead of somewhere useful. (Maybe it does aim for deepest creeper like Berthas and I just can't remember correctly)
I do get that the Thor is a rare case Titan and it is not to be taken for granted and that this is thusly a minor technical issue, but it still seems worth raising awareness of.
It works this way by design.
The main cannon does nothing unless there is a crpl core with CONST_THORTARGET set to true. If that core is destroyed, any bullets currently in the air will then go after other thor target cores or, failing that, the deepest creeper.
The Thor is like a mobile, aerial Bertha transport with twin cannons, snipers, and unlimited beams. Of course it's not going to be designed with energy efficiency in mind.
So it WAS meant to be that way.
Thanks for informing me of that.
This question brings up one of my own. When I saw Thor firing off a shot the moment it gets the ammo for it, I was wondering if there is a point where your packet speed is high enough for Thor to constantly fire at the max rate, or even refill its reserves while still firing. Is there such a point, or is it just wishful thinking?
You could have lots of packet speed, no upgrades to fire rate, and have a CN right next to it. That would probably solve the problem.
The Thor, in the map I just tested, cannot resupply itself as fast as it shoots.
This may be due to fire rate upgrades.
The bottleneck is the request rate, and therefore the speed/distance will not be an issue.
(The Thor has 3K ammo capacity. Unless it can resupply itself, I don't think it's possible to make a network where the packet speed is the limiting factor. The request rate will outdo it, and if it can request fast enough relative to demand, then it will be the consumption rate that limits it when the packets are en route to bring it to full charge.)
Hasn't anyone noticed that the Thor in game 1 didn't need ammo at all, and in game 3 it needs a ton?
Quote from: Shockblast DX on April 19, 2016, 10:49:29 PM
Hasn't anyone noticed that the Thor in game 1 didn't need ammo at all, and in game 3 it needs a ton?
That's cause in game 1 they picked up a special power supply that supplied the entirety of the thor :D. In CW3 that core was not present, but since technology got a lot better, normal energy production is sufficient for charging the thor.
Quote from: SuperTerminator on April 21, 2016, 03:36:48 PMThat's cause in game 1 they picked up a special power supply that supplied the entirety of the thor
this brings up a slightly interesting question
odin city (later the command nodes) processes energy into ammo packets, the network brings these packets to whatever needs them (in this case the thor) but in game 1 thor could power it self, but does this also mean it was able to create its own ammo from this power? if so why isnt the new thor design able to do this as well. if not then how did thor get ammo for its weapons (I suppose it used laser weapons, but blasters still needed packets)
Perhaps the ammo packets are deconstructed by the consuming unit. Therefore, the Thor can't make complete packets, but passes the packet contents around internally.
Quote from: GoodMorning on April 21, 2016, 11:37:59 PM
Perhaps the ammo packets are deconstructed by the consuming unit. Therefore, the Thor can't make complete packets, but passes the packet contents around internally.
I remember in the last mission that Aliana says that she will reprogram the
nano construction packets to rebuild the missile silos. So, I'm guessing that packets are nanotech that, when at target, forms itself into different ammo. That's probably why we can power ANYTHING under the sun as long as it doesn't require ore/AC.
Presumably Ore/AC requires that blue, glowing material that we see in the ore patches. It's called... Tiberium?
Presumably the Creeper is "runaway" nanotech, which can have it's past state reconstructed. The "entropy" destroying structures is just that it's more likely to tear down than rebuild. It's a good primordial soup to evolve Runners out of.
Although... build/ammo packets: one carries mass, the other energy. That explains a bit.
The real question is why the Thor can't just build Nullifiers in the air, and drom thep on Emitters...
I have a theory, but won't share outside spoilers yet, in case someone has a better idea.
Spoiler
Perhaps the Nullifiers need to be constructed in-place, in order to sync with the local gravity field, Rift Space remnants, and individual Emitters...
Still, why the Thor can't be a big Guppy, even if only for ammo...
And why is it that there were Totems everywhere in CW, but we can't build them now?
(As a final note, I had waited a long time to see someone use the "Wow, my shield is so high-tech that I forgot to make it catapult-proof! AAAGH! (splat)" idea. Thank you Virgil.)
about thor, it has high packet request rate, but it can charge to 3000 and work sort of like a large guppy to help establish a beachhead on the other area so that it can be normally attacked. To better charge thor while connected and is fighting, research packet speed, at least you can make sure if empty, it will at least be almost continuously firing.
The fire rate is reduced in that case, because it can't request the packets fast enough.
The "Guppy" idea was for a Thor to be able to send only Ammo packets out. So, it can't build that Terp/Relay that you need under an AET, but it can keep the Terp/Mortar that you fly in supplied.
That gets me thinking on the idea for an Odin ship. Would that have to have higher energy request, or is it something else?
If you refer to your series, then it is futile for we others to guess, as we don't know about the series. Odin City was functionally a CN, with attendant small power output. Another Titan? I would make it an AC-vore, as the Thor runs at 1 packet/frame. Or perhaps it could eat Aether... Too hard, though.
I'm thinking that it uses Ammo, AC, and Aether, but for the Aether, it has to have a special unit that converts the Aether into something like an Ammo packet. The Forge already uses the Aether, so we could set it up to use that, or we could do something entirely different.
Beware the Forge, but nothing else absorbs Aether, and there can only be one Forge. Probably for Aether pathfinding. So, piggyback off the Forge (have fun, don't know the var names), or skip aether, or fake it.
Well, we could have the totems give one Aether packet to only one unit at a time. Of course, that would slow down the Forge use, so you might want to deactivate the unit every once in a while.
I don't know that Totems are targetable. Fake Aether? This could be generated at the same time as normal, allowing both entities to exploit the Rift Space opening.
Look at the PaC template for the selectability, but this can also be used for movement or other command sensitivity.
It's either that, or a different type of Totem.