A way for the player to know what each custom ship has

Started by stdout, November 21, 2016, 01:01:24 PM

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Stickman

#15
I don't want to sound like a whiner, but I forgot to address one more issue - (if you use big words) screen space and information density.
I took a screenshot from tutorial mission and marked fields that kinda give information and those that kinda don't.
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As you can see, this information screen would show most modules as "-" for a lot of ships. If you take campaign fleet (correct me if I'm wrong), reactors are used only on HQ, grabbers on grabbers, discharges on discharges and fighter bases on carrier. That's about 25% of total modules, and they would be unique for one type of ship. Also, there is no line for custom modules.

Full list has its advantages:
1) It's easier to find ship with some modules you need (lathes, for example) by going through list.
2) It's easier to compare two ships in terms on module count, because you always have same modules on same spaces. But there is no dedicated "compare" mode, so if you want to check stats on two ships, you'll have to mouseover between them while memorizing numbers for different modules.
3) I think it's easier to implement because it's static, no need to adjust size of a window, add/delete lines, etc.

Compressed list (just don't show "-" modules) also has advantages:
1) Takes less space and less likely to bloat due to custom modules
2) It's easier to understand what modules do you actually get on your ship, to figure out what's its specialization.

I would like compressed one though

I would also like to specifically state that Virgil is incredibly amazing person and developer, and my point of view is highly subjective and uninformed (never even created a map on PRPL/CRPL script), and I'm actually very pleased with an inclusion of this module list and would be happy if it goes from beta to production as is, because it is, from my point of view, a definite improvement.

Quote from: Sorrontis on November 25, 2016, 01:39:15 PM
Did somebody call good old Sorrontis? I heard my name. :D

Well, your ships have interesting designs. They are different from campaign well-balanced ships. Let me use some images:

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While it's kinda analogous in terms of modules to campaign's wolf (basically missile barrage with some lasers), it's core is better protected, so some side shot or emergent is less likely to plow into it and destroy it, but missiles are protected very poorly and can be taken out with any stray shot. If duahcim would engage in a battle with enemy wolf, it would quickly loose it's missiles and loose. That makes this ship strictly second-line ship, while wolf could be used on frontlines.

And these two:
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They are very comparable in terms of firepower, but first one would loose too much of it's firepower on a solid hit. Second one has very "spaced" design, that allows it to loose firepower slower with damage. So when I had these on maps with some enemy MK7, I've used Razor for second-line support, because MK7 tore it apart and I had to rebuild it. Razorbacks, on contrary, I've used on frontlines, actually baiting first couple of MK7 shots with its "prongs" to soak up damage and get enemy ship in range of my weapons.
These two are quite different ships, although their module lists would look deceptively similar.
=====> This is a moderately pointy stick. You need to poke me with it once in three days if you need PRPL from me

knucracker

I've released a new beta that removes the list of things on a ship an instead shows a ship preview image.

Stickman

Quote from: virgilw on November 29, 2016, 11:52:28 AM
I've released a new beta that removes the list of things on a ship an instead shows a ship preview image.

Awesome. Downloaded and tried on one campaign mission and two quick exchange missions with a some big, slow-building ships. Everything works and looks nice for me. I like that different relevant information is shown when ship is not built, CM is building and ship is operational. Ship building progress in info window is a nice touch. Do you plan to expand on this, like adding some graphical indication to modules completion times (would be useful for stuff like MK7, fighter bases and, possibly, custom modules)? Just a question, not a  suggestion or request.

Actual suggestions:
1) Add full cost of the ship to "unbuilt" information. Useful to judge what you can pull off with energy pods on maps with early pressure.
2) Add guppies to energy display if possible/reasonable, maybe as ["ship energy" + "guppy energy"] to separate it slightly. Guppies work (from gameplay perspective, not code-wise) as mini-tanks and full tanks are already included.
3) Show energy as "current/max [percentage]". More information without overinformation. I know that energy is already can be eyeballed by checking tanks and CM and actual percentage can be judged by green bar on ship list, but information in suggested format would help to judge time needed to fill ship energy completely.
=====> This is a moderately pointy stick. You need to poke me with it once in three days if you need PRPL from me

stdout

Looks great.

As for preferences go, I'd love to have the popup window appear when I'm mousing over a ship in the build area, but when a ship is in the battle field, I'd rather not see it. Could you break those two scenarios out into two different preference options?

knucracker

Quote from: stdout on November 29, 2016, 02:38:59 PM
Looks great.

As for preferences go, I'd love to have the popup window appear when I'm mousing over a ship in the build area, but when a ship is in the battle field, I'd rather not see it. Could you break those two scenarios out into two different preference options?

The graphics menu has one of those options right now.  It should be what you are looking for.  Go there and uncheck the option to show when you mouse over a ship in the play area.  For people just trying the beta, it is off by default.  I had it on by default in b1, so it will be on for you.

I could also have a separate option to turn it off when mousing over the build area... but my suspicion is that isn't really a big deal or something most people would want.

Sorrontis

"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."

stdout

Quote from: virgilw on November 29, 2016, 03:38:19 PMGo there and uncheck the option to show when you mouse over a ship in the play area.  For people just trying the beta, it is off by default.  I had it on by default in b1, so it will be on for you.

I could also have a separate option to turn it off when mousing over the build area... but my suspicion is that isn't really a big deal or something most people would want.

Ok, I did that and it works perfectly. I think you've got this just right now.

stdout

Okay, after playing with this a bit, I see something that doesn't feel right to me. When you tell it to build a ship, the preview window then turns red and it's now hard to see what it'll have once it's finished building. I can see that then as each module is built, the red areas turn into the finished modules.

That's kind of a cool feature, but I think the player would rather just see the modules on the ship as they will be when they are finished, consistent with how it behaves before you tell it to build.