This topic is for discussion of map: Hard Art 6: The Screams (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=3351)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/thumb.php?id=3351) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=3351)
Author: UpperKEES (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/viewmaps.php?author=UpperKEES)
Desc:
You will probably need every type of unit to stop these screams; a mirrored version of the famous painting The Scream by Edvard Munch.
Although you'll find some details about the emitters in the opening text don't expect to beat this map on your first try.
Title: | Hard Art 6: The Screams |
Difficulty: | Hard |
Creeper type: | Land only |
Remarks: | You will probably need every type of unit to stop these screams; a mirrored version of the famous painting The Scream by Edvard Munch.
Although you'll find some details about the emitters in the opening text don't expect to beat this map on your first try.
|
Description: | This map is based on a mirrored version of the famous painting The Scream by Edvard Munch. He probably created this work after observing a blood red sky due to the 1883 eruption of the Krakatoa volcano when overlooking the Oslo-fjord.
The emitters are located underneath each totem and will increase in frequency at 3, 6, 9 and 12 minutes of playing time (their intensity of 5 will stay the same).
The emitters near the water will start after 30 seconds and the two bottom ones after 1 minute.
After 6 minutes the person on the left will scream very loud and both people will keep responding to each others screams every minute.
TITLE: The Scream
ARTIST: Edvard Munch
MATERIAL: Oil, tempera & pastel on cardboard
YEAR: 1893
DIMENSIONS: 91 x 73.5 cm
|
Download page: | Hard Art 6: The Screams (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=3351) |
Full size screen shot: | (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=978.0;attach=1562;image)
|
Based on: | (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=978.0;attach=1564;image)
|
More art: | See here for more maps about art (and jobs) ;) (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=978.0) |
Oops, now I read back my own text I should clarify something: there are NO emitters underneath the two totems at the bottom. With "the two bottom ones that start after 1 minute" I meant the emitters on the hills next to the arms of the screaming men....
By the way: credits to our Norwegian Spiffen for suggesting this painting!
Edit: typo.
Just in time for Halloween. Maybe that isn't as big a holiday there as it is in the US.
Quote from: L'ythelle on October 07, 2010, 02:29:41 PM
Just in time for Halloween.
Yeah, these guys look a bit scary, but I'm sure they're terrified themselves.
Munch wrote in his diary (January 22, 1892):
"I was walking along a path with two friends — the sun was setting — suddenly the sky turned blood red — I paused, feeling exhausted, and leaned on the fence — there was blood and tongues of fire above the blue-black fjord and the city — my friends walked on, and I stood there trembling with anxiety — and I sensed an infinite scream passing through nature."One theory advanced to account for the reddish sky in the background is that Munch had observed an effect of the powerful volcanic eruption of Krakatoa in 1883: the ash that was ejected from the volcano left the sky tinted red in much of eastern United States and most of Europe and Asia from the end of November 1883 to mid February 1884. This explanation has been disputed by scholars who note that Munch was an expressive, rather than descriptive painter, and was therefore not primarily responsive to literal rendering. Alternatively, it has been suggested that the proximity to the site of the painting of both a slaughterhouse and a madhouse may have offered inspiration (
source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scream)).
Quote from: L'ythelle on October 07, 2010, 02:29:41 PM
Maybe that isn't as big a holiday there as it is in the US.
Nope, we indeed don't 'celebrate' that here, but I'm familiar with the scary movie (obviously also based on this painting).
(http://muuuvies.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/bluezoeme-scream-2678.png?w=300&h=300)
Thanks UpperKEES, a pretty straightforward one in that, not too hard to get a solid defence up.
Nice and hard to get upto the top corners. Will do it again, hopefully more efficiently...
Finally!! Another map! I was already thinking of not doing the chronum tournament (because of stupid homework ::)), but this settles it. I have to try to give you a run for your money ;D. And anyways chronum maps just do not compare to custom ones.
Quote from: RichieRich on October 07, 2010, 08:47:48 PM
Thanks UpperKEES, a pretty straightforward one in that, not too hard to get a solid defence up.
Nice and hard to get upto the top corners. Will do it again, hopefully more efficiently...
Thank you as well for picking this map up that quickly. :) It's indeed not that hard (my last few were maybe a bit too rough), but you still need to think about your defence. And yeah, the top is the tricky part....
Quote from: Fisherck on October 07, 2010, 09:29:42 PM
Finally!! Another map! I was already thinking of not doing the chronum tournament (because of stupid homework ::)), but this settles it. I have to try to give you a run for your money ;D. And anyways chronum maps just do not compare to custom ones.
Oh no! I don't want to keep you out of
the Chronom tournament (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=4963.0) with this map! Better postpone playing this one or do the tournament maps during the weekend when your homework is done. I hope it will rain that much that you won't be able to run.... ;) The Chronom maps indeed are a lot easier, but the competitive element of a tournament makes up for that.
Well, that was fun ;D Holding off the screamers was easy. The difficult part for me was the top assault. I think I needed more energy production and a couple of more drones... oh well, maybe I will try again.
Thanks Kees for a fun map :D
Quote from: snowmaker (JM) on October 08, 2010, 07:19:26 PM
Well, that was fun ;D Holding off the screamers was easy. The difficult part for me was the top assault. I think I needed more energy production and a couple of more drones... oh well, maybe I will try again.
Yeah, the screamers were a bit harder during testing, but I didn't want to make a map that would be too frustrating, so I adjusted them.
Spoiler
Drones indeed help a lot for the final totems (and so do battery powered blasters).
Quote from: snowmaker (JM) on October 08, 2010, 07:19:26 PM
Thanks Kees for a fun map :D
Merci! :)
Yeah, the screamers were a bit harder during testing, but I didn't want to make a map that would be too frustrating, so I adjusted them. Drones indeed help a lot for the final totems (and so do battery powered blasters).
[/quote]
I didn't have enough batteries the first time and I got impatient ;)
Quote from: snowmaker (JM) on October 08, 2010, 10:15:36 PM
I didn't have enough batteries the first time and I got impatient ;)
Heheh! A lack of power can indeed be frustrating once you already started fighting, because it's pretty hard to add more reactors when you need all energy to maintain your position. And regarding patience.... that's probably the only thing more important than energy when playing CW! ;D
Round one done, but I think I can get a better score. I am going for round two now. ;)
EDIT: There we go, from a 10:30 to a 9:30. Maybe I will keep the top score for a little while. ;D
Ah yeah, we studied this painting in my art history class, sadly I don't think it was on the actual exam, but we did talk about it, and the lines from his journal were mentioned in class as well. Something else that we mentioned this painting could be about would be a sense of isolation, the man that's screaming and his friends that don't respond to his distress. (of course now that it's mirrored it's not so much isolation anymore, makes me wonder why they are screaming at each other) "I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!"
Quote from: Fisherck on October 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Round one done, but I think I can get a better score. I am going for round two now. ;)
EDIT: There we go, from a 10:30 to a 9:30. Maybe I will keep the top score for a little while. ;D
Great time Fish! 8) That could indeed last for a while....
Quote from: NNR_Alex on October 10, 2010, 04:24:25 PM
(of course now that it's mirrored it's not so much isolation anymore, makes me wonder why they are screaming at each other) "I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!"
Yeah, it seemed the best way to make it fit as rotating was no option. No idea what they are yelling about either; it could be the nasty sky.... ;)
I have tryed this map some times now , but i cant manage it .
Might be that i dont have enought patient or something ,
so i'll nag for hints soon =)
( I always have trouble with UpperKEES maps =P )
Just tell me at what moment you get stuck and I'll give you some hints from there.
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 12, 2010, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Fisherck on October 09, 2010, 10:19:18 PM
Maybe I will keep the top score for a little while. ;D
That could indeed last for a while....
Hmmm, just missed it by 13 seconds after a stupid mistake which caused the loss of a drone and a relay, so I have to make it on my third run....
*reminds himself NOT to move the front blaster* :P
Edit: done! ;D
Darn! Oh well, at least I can say I had for a little while (what more could I expect ;)).
Quote from: Fisherck on October 16, 2010, 12:00:21 AM
Darn! Oh well, at least I can say I had for a little while (what more could I expect ;)).
It took me 2 attempts, more than an hour (I pause a lot) and a different strategy to beat your time. I would never have thought a time like this was possible, so it's always nice when players push each other to their limits! :)
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 13, 2010, 12:20:39 PM
I have tryed this map some times now , but i cant manage it .
Might be that i dont have enought patient or something ,
so i'll nag for hints soon =)
Let me start with some tips how to defend yourself:Spoiler
- First you'll need 1 blaster to stop the creeper flowing in from the top. Build this one soon!
Spoiler
- A little later you'll need 2 blasters to stop the creeper flowing in from the sides.
Spoiler
- After a couple of minutes the creeper will start overflowing the fences of the bridge on the left and the right. You'll need 2 mortars or 2 drones to take care of this.
Spoiler
- Besides the above mentioned defence I'd concentrate the first 6 minutes on building up your infrastructure (mainly energy, some storage and some speed).
Spoiler
- Make sure the first scream (from the left person) at the 6 minute mark doesn't surprise you.
Please let me know if you need more help.
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 16, 2010, 08:17:54 AM
- After a couple of minutes the creeper will start overflowing the fences of the bridge on the left and the right. You'll need 2 mortars or 2 drones to take care of this.
You can also do this with one mortar and the 20% range upgrade, this works just as well.
And an other hint, know the difference between left and right :P(I defended the wrong scream at 6min)
P.S.: For those of you who are now asking: "Hey Sqaz, if you played it were's your score", you should look at some of my comments on Kees' first map and you'll find out I can't stand to have to fight once I'm sure I'll win anyway and have more than enough energy.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 09:28:22 AM
You can also do this with one mortar and the 20% range upgrade, this works just as well.
Spoiler
I actually prefer the drones in this case, because you can use them better later on for the top part. ;)
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 09:28:22 AM
P.S.: For those of you who are now asking: "Hey Sqaz, if you played it were's your score", you should look at some of my comments on Kees' first map and you'll find out I can't stand to have to fight once I'm sure I'll win anyway and have more than enough energy.
In that case I should stop playing CW! ;D So why did you give up? Because of expecting the wrong scream? The sky is the hardest part and I don't see what it has to do with
Nice Job 1: The Engineer (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=1434.0), besides the fact that the referred artifact also was the hardest part of the map. Building up enough energy is just the beginning (and easy on this map) and now it seems you stop playing at the moment the real fighting begins! :P
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 16, 2010, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 09:28:22 AM
You can also do this with one mortar and the 20% range upgrade, this works just as well.
I actually prefer the drones in this case, because you can use them better later on for the top part. ;)
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 09:28:22 AM
P.S.: For those of you who are now asking: "Hey Sqaz, if you played it were's your score", you should look at some of my comments on Kees' first map and you'll find out I can't stand to have to fight once I'm sure I'll win anyway and have more than enough energy.
In that case I should stop playing CW! ;D So why did you give up? Because of expecting the wrong scream? The sky is the hardest part and I don't see what it has to do with Nice Job 1: The Engineer (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=1434.0), besides the fact that the referred artifact also was the hardest part of the map. Buidling up enough energy is just the beginning and now it seems you stop playing at the moment the real fighting begins! :P
I gave up after capping all lower emitters, and having about 18 energy, when I saw that if I wanted to break through the clouds it would take a whole lot of timing, bridging droning and fighting even though you could've just have deleted those upper 5 totems (and I'm pretty sure the fact that I played it monday at 6:30 o' clock also had to do something with it :P)
And I prefer tactics above brute fighting, you'll see that almost all my maps have a very late turning point (in my last map e.g. you never had to use brute force).
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 16, 2010, 10:47:18 AM
In that case I should stop playing CW! ;D
Not everyone plays this map entirely for having the best score ;), and if I know I'll win without problems why should I keep playing a map.
And I'm not planning to stop playing CW yet, sorry 'bout that :P
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
I gave up after capping all lower emitters, and having about 18 energy, when I saw that if I wanted to break through the clouds it would take a whole lot of timing, bridging droning and fighting even though you could've just have deleted those upper 5 totems
Sure, just delete the part you couldn't make! :P
Bridging? Never necessary on any of my maps and you know that. Didn't use it myself either.
Timing? Yes, if you like to finish fast and use paratroopers like you do yourself on your last map. ;) Without the need to finish fast you don't need timing, so you can play very laid back after your initial defences are up.
Droning? Not necessary, but a little support helps. The first 2 times I finished this map I only used 2 of them, but I'm sure I can do without them at all.
Fighting? Absolutely! As you may have seen there are many positions where you can put your units in 'the sky'. These have been chosen carefully to make an interesting fight, thus I don't see your point at all.
Capping the lower emitters only takes a few minutes (without the need to build up energy for the top part), so the map would have to be rated 'medium' in that case. You would be able to do so even before the first scream starts.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
And I prefer tactics above brute fighting, you'll see that almost all my maps have a very late turning point (in my last map e.g. you never had to use brute force).
Brute force? I don't get that.
Spoiler
I use only 10 energy to start with and end the map with about 12. The final stage is ALL about tactics, even more than on my other maps. Every emitter can be capped by 1 blaster! (Except for the screams that take 3, but that's only once per minute so you can use the same blasters for the other scream. ;))
Too bad you haven't played the most interesting part. I have never created a brute force map and never will.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
(and I'm pretty sure the fact that I played it monday at 6:30 o' clock also had to do something with it :P)
That must be it then! ::)
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 10:57:22 AM
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 16, 2010, 10:47:18 AM
In that case I should stop playing CW! ;D
Not everyone plays this map entirely for having the best score ;), and if I know I'll win without problems why should I keep playing a map.
I play for fun, but I always try to beat the highscore. Don't tell me you don't! I think the difference is that I often make it.... Hahaha! ;D
You referred to 'winning a map' and so did I. I haven't encountered a single map that I couldn't beat yet, so I assume I can finish any map that has been completed before. This doesn't take away the fun for me, because for me it's not about finishing the map, but about
how I did it. I enjoy walking the road more than I enjoy reaching my destination. :)
Quote from: UpperKEES on October 16, 2010, 11:23:21 AM
I enjoy walking the road more than I enjoy reaching my destination. :)
So do I, but I enjoy planning the road more than following my GPS.
But I must admit I kinda liked the last part of your map, and regardless what you say you have to paratroop (even though I've got nothing against that), I was wrong about the emitter intensity my first playing round, didn't though they were cappable by one blaster, so the end wasn't that bad.
And I don't play for highscores, I'd prefer being one of the 5 people able to finish a map than be first on a map with hunderds of scores.
EDIT: Btw. you don't have to paratroop on my last map, I tried it without and it's possible.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 11:39:04 AM
So do I, but I enjoy planning the road more than following my GPS.
Agreed. Planning is essential when walking the CW road (and a good sense for direction definitely helps ;)).
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 11:39:04 AM
regardless what you say you have to paratroop (even though I've got nothing against that)
Or you paratroop, or you use drones, or you use mortars. It's all up to you! :)
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 11:39:04 AM
I was wrong about the emitter intensity my first playing round, didn't though they were cappable by one blaster, so the end wasn't that bad.
Yep, they are. I almost always prefer rather normal emitters and try to use the terrain to make it interesting.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 11:39:04 AM
But I must admit I kinda liked the last part of your map
Great, glad to read that! :)
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 11:39:04 AM
And I don't play for highscores, I'd prefer being one of the 5 people able to finish a map than be first on a map with hunderds of scores.
I like both types of maps. The one with 5 people able to finish is probably very hard, so a real challenge. The one with hundreds of scores (which one? tell me! ;)) is probably very well made or nice looking. Nevertheless I'll try to beat the #1 score for both, just because I like an additional challenge. I would do so for any game or sport I play, but it's no big deal if I don't make it.
Terrain and strategy is what I look for whenever I play a map. That's why I play both (sqaz & Kees) of your maps. It's fun to compete for the best time ;D
I know anyone would become a better player if they designed maps, but I have chosen not to quite yet.
Thanks for the hints... I definitely overbuilt so maybe I will try again.
I'm pretty sure there is one chronom map with 100 scores (or there will be one), but I'd never play a map twice just to get a better score (and I'd certainly won't play all 200 most played chronom maps just to get the best score on all of them, like someone I know :P), maybe if a map is very good I'll play it two or more times, but I won't do it for the score, and I admit I'm not as good as you, but I don't care, if you play everything just for scores what's the fun of it (even though there's a good score is nice if you're playing it anyway :)).
My GPS is told to avoid highways but take the peaceful roads through national parks and other parts of nature rather than get stuck in traffic on the highway (ven if that's still faster).
Like snowmaker I like to improve myself if I can, because that's when you learn. I only replay my own maps, the tournament maps and the other really interesting ones.
I like the Chronom maps because they were a nice change from the custom maps after months of playing. What I like about them is that none of these have a 'trick' involved or have been designed with a certain strategy in mind. Still it takes more than 10 minutes to complete some of them, making them a better challenge than many custom maps. For the easy ones I like to test my own capability to finish them as fast as possible.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 16, 2010, 12:15:23 PM
maybe if a map is very good I'll play it two or more times, but I won't do it for the score
Hmmm, then I guess you like
some Chronom maps (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/viewscores.php?missionGroup=chronom&month=7&day=29&year1=2&year2=0&year3=1&year4=0) as well.... ;D
But most important: I don't care why other people play or what maps they pick (although I like it if they prefer mine ;)). It's fine with me if players like to compete, but just as fine when they choose not to. I won't judge them for that, so I hope people don't mind that I
do like competition. Especially people that don't care for scores (as they say) shouldn't be bothered at all. I just enjoy finding efficient strategies and tactics resulting in a fast time and (still!) improving my game play. It's a nice and enjoyable way to keep myself alert.
The fact I like competition is exactly the reason I share my solutions for tournament maps, post about useful strategies at the forums and give hints for my own maps, so other will get better. When I would solely play for the high scores I would keep that all to myself.
PS: since when do 15-year old boys drive cars? I've always said you are older! :P
I still dont manage to find the right spots to put my Blasters i think ,
and i dont manage to get enought energy in time to support them =(
Think my timing is bad as usally =P
What I do is:Spoiler
- First I build my collectors to the north, picking up the upgrades on the way. I leave a spot open in the middle to be able to move OC a little.
Spoiler
- After building about 7 collectors I build 1 blaster at the end of the bridge to stop the creeper flowing in from the top.
Spoiler
- Then I expand my collectors to the bodies of the screaming men. When these are finished and almost all available surface is covered I start building a blaster on each of the men. I don't put it very close to the creeper, because I only want it to fire when the creeper has flooded the left and right and tries to flow over these two people, thus saving energy.
Spoiler
- Now you can start adding reactors. I would at least collect 10 per second and also add some storage for your drones and paratroopers before going anywhere.
Spoiler
- In the meanwhile keep an eye on the creeper to the left and right of the bridge. Hover your mouse pointer over the creeper to know its exact level. When it's about 3.5 start building a mortar (or 2) or 2 drones. The bridge is elevation level 4 and you don't want the creeper to get in.
Spoiler
- The only remaining danger left for now are the screams. Make sure you add some blasters to the bottom of the head of the left person at the 6 minute mark (the arms are great for this, because from there you can fire directly into the mouth). You can move these blasters to the right later on to handle the next scream.
Let me know if you can keep your defences closed now. Conquering the rest of the map is another story.... ;)
Lol think i have manage to build up some defence now ,
but thats in the same time as you finnish the map =P
Well i hope i manage to finnish the map atleast =)
Edit : i finnished it =) last score so far =P
Took me about 35 min before i noticed how easy it was to cap the emitters =P
Guess i got scared by the opening text =)
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 20, 2010, 05:11:28 AM
i finnished it =) last score so far =P
:) I knew you would be able to do it!
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 20, 2010, 05:11:28 AM
Took me about 35 min before i noticed how easy it was to cap the emitters =P
Spoiler
Yeah, 1 blaster is enough, but 2 is better so they don't get damaged after the emitter increases.
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 20, 2010, 05:11:28 AM
Guess i got scared by the opening text =)
I only said you would probably need a couple of tries. Wasn't I right? :P
After i manage to get the start right , i did it .
But i think i used about 30 tryes first =P
I easyly overbuild , and i did overbuild after i got the start too =P
Here's an pic of my start when i manage to stay safe =P :
Spoiler
The main difference between our approaches is that I built less weapons and more collectors and reactors in the beginning. Before you start building reactors you should always build collectors wherever you can, because these are much more cost efficient. Two mortars should be enough and you can move the blasters needed to handle the screams, so that would also save some time and energy.
Anyway, just finished it and that's what counts! :)
Just wondering: which upgrade didn't you pick? +15% fire rate I guess?
Yeah i dropped the fire upgrade , might be the reason i didnt manage the map before ,
when i selected all the upgrades =P
And i thought i needed alot of fire power on the top of the bridge ,
but it'snt needed if you manage to stay safe =P
Your collector placement is kinda strange, why are they so close to eachother instead of covering as much terrain as possible.
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 20, 2010, 09:19:17 AM
Yeah i dropped the fire upgrade , might be the reason i didnt manage the map before ,
when i selected all the upgrades =P
Building up your energy supply efficiently is the most important thing (for any map) and I'm sure that was your problem here as well.
Quote from: SPIFFEN on October 20, 2010, 09:19:17 AM
And i thought i needed alot of fire power on the top of the bridge ,
but it'snt needed if you manage to stay safe =P
Correct.
Spoiler
The blaster at the top gets distracted when the creeper starts flowing over the edges of the bridge, so better take care of that with mortars or drones.
Quote from: Sqaz on October 20, 2010, 09:36:15 AM
Your collector placement is kinda strange, why are they so close to eachother instead of covering as much terrain as possible.
Yeah, minimal overlap is best, so it really pays off to think about to collector layout and make the supply lines more straight by placing other units (like reactors or speed nodes) in between them later on.
Because i did'nt pay any attention to it ,
i just wanted to be abel to stay safe .
But it's an nice hint for others to do better than me =)
( I did waste alot of time rearenging my collectores later =P )
Yeah, finding the appropriate balance between staying safe (building up defences just in time) and generating as much energy as possible (after estimating how much you will need to finish) is one of the hardest things for most maps. Do it right and you have found the key to the highscore.
That was a great 2+hours!
I think I made every mistake possible, but still managed to bulldog through.
Definitely one to re-play at some point - but not until my eyeballs aren't quite so red :))
uK - thanks for the entertainment - good stuff!
dbit