This topic is for discussion of map #3396: Roadside Picnic (1.0)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld3/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=3396)
Author: kalek
Size: 220x84
Desc:
Kalek : In this forbidden zone, there is absolutly no secure place. Players : No ? ! So, what shall we do ? Kalek : Nothing. Stay home. Don't touch this. Players (sad) : That's bad... (We loved your maps). Kalek : Yes it's bad. Very bad. Adapted from The Strougatski's masterpiece. Filmed in hypperrealistic colors and Kinopanorama; Thanks and credits to CRPL forum community for efficients and helpful posts. Special thanks to Pusillanimous.
WOW! The name of the game was supposed to be STALKER!
You, sir, wonderfully created "adaptation to CW3" of Strougatski's novel!
Firstly, panorama is very realistic! Secondly, the unpredictability. A lot of unexpected "events".
At first it seemed impossible to win. A few techs (pulse cannon, mortar and beam), very expensive Bertha etc.
But step by step became better and better... ;)
The game constantly kept in "stress", but was not too hard!
A lot of implemented ideas! Thank you very much for the work!
10/10! :)
P.S. I like the works of Strugatsky brothers! Especially the "Monday begins on Saturday" and, in particular, I like the idea of "unchangeable coin". It would be cool to implement in one of the Your next game small renewable (rechargable) energy resource (for example, energy pack maybe not as in original 5, but 50 and after getting energy by Siphon in the same place or somewhere near again reappear the same energy pack )... ;)
First time I played map immediately once more. Not for score (it becomes better, but not as DOmOnik 8) ), but for pleasure! :)
What is wrong? Why rating so low (4+8+10+1)/4=5.75? Again haters? Map is not so hard (as some of my maps)...
Kalek, be sure You created of first-class map!!! Again thank You! :)
It is a good map, I particularly like the colours and the map looks better as you add collectors. May sound trivial but the visuals make a big difference for me. The terrain is excellant as well, room to build but not too open.
The ganme play was also very good, challenging but not too intense. Some players will not enjoy the random elememnts and if you have never played any of Sorrontis' maps this can be very frustrating.
Spoiler
The technique is quite simple for random maps, spread all of your resources out, eg don't group your reactors in case an emitter pops up under them. Also build a thorough web of collectors so if a thread gets cut units do not have isolated units. It is also worth saving before you nullify anything!
Quote from: yum-forum on April 06, 2016, 09:34:30 PM
First time I played map immediately once more. Not for score (it becomes better, but not as DOmOnik 8) ), but for pleasure! :)
What is wrong? Why rating so low (4+8+10+1)/4=5.75? Again haters? Map is not so hard (as some of my maps)...
Kalek, be sure You created of first-class map!!! Again thank You! :)
Hi, thanks for your kind messages - coming from a great map designer it's an honnor !
Glad to see that you also are a scifi "connaisseur". I didn't read yet " Monday begins on Saturday", but I will , it's on my (huge) list of books to read.
Thanks to you.
Quote from: D0m0nik on April 07, 2016, 03:41:22 AM
It is a good map, I particularly like the colours and the map looks better as you add collectors. May sound trivial but the visuals make a big difference for me. The terrain is excellant as well, room to build but not too open.
The ganme play was also very good, challenging but not too intense. Some players will not enjoy the random elememnts and if you have never played any of Sorrontis' maps this can be very frustrating.
Thanks fot the comment, glad you liked it. I agree with you about visuals, You did a great job to that way, I remember the dark star and this other tricky map I still didn't finished, but it's in my fav ; I will terminate it someday....
about random function did you notice that :
Spoiler
The random display is for the map... That means that any sporetower you nullify first will ALWAYS display ennemies at the SAME PLACE.
Idem for the second tower, etc... That way the random display for the player is only surprizing the first time. If you restart the mission, you know exactly where the ennemies will be dropped... (I am not sure if this is very clear ???)...
(1.0) means that You will create Roadside Picnic (2.0)? ;)
Quote from: yum-forum on April 07, 2016, 02:00:33 PM
(1.0) means that You will create Roadside Picnic (2.0)? ;)
Maybe, I am thinking about it. In fact the first version of this one was much more harder with events in "cascade"... Not to infinite , but quite ! :). So I changed many things to make it not too difficult, playable by anybody and fun... But as D0m0nik noticed, a lot of players feel frustrated very quickly and give up after few minutes...
So, to answer your question, I will certainly do something the same way (I 'am starting to seriously like CRPL). Will it be Roadside Pinic 2 ? Nihon Chinbotsu ? Journey to center of the Earth ? Total Recall ? ... The Lost World ? I don't know yet... And i have to first find cool background texture to go with ;)
Be seeing you
found 4 spore towers, nullified one and got more units both good and bad on the map.
I have finally found time to play this. Good fun, make more!
(But... why did I rate a mention in the description?)
To make a suggestion for the future:
I would be interested in a form of this where there are a few units, which will spawn units...
Start: Nothing else on map
First Nullification: "Baddies" (then invincible until all of these are dead)
Second Nullification: "Goodies", timer starts (for recovery)
Third Nullification: More goodies, harder, shorter timer...
Fourth Nullification: Finally dies...
Quote from: GoodMorning on April 09, 2016, 02:16:56 AM
But... why did I rate a mention in the description?
Because you can maybe answer to this question :
Do you have an idea how to set RANDOM value to $val ??
I 'am working (it's the case !) on a new map where ennemy unit produce ennemy unit each one minute. Until now it works fine. But all my ennemy units do the same thing (same amount of creeper, same delay, etc...). I've found the RandInt function, but didn't succed to use it the way I imagine, ex :
$Amt: RandInt 50 100
$Delay : Randint 100 200
....
So, if you have an idea...
First thing is you should have RnadInt after min and max , not before .
Maybe you should have it
50 100 RandInt ->Amt
100 200 RandInt ->Delay
instead your way.
And have $Amt:0 and $Delay:0 in your code.
If it doesn't start work , you can always ask help from Coder's corner.
Here's something which should work:
$ManualVar:-1
#This can be set yourself, or will randomise if it stays at -1.
once
<-ManualVar -1 eq if
0 100 RandInt ->ManualVar
endif
endonce
Then, if you want to set it from a unit-generating script:
(Somewhere in a :spawn function)
CurrentCoords "CRPLCORE" CreateUnit ->Child
<-Child "DummyScript.crpl" AddScriptToUnit
<-Child "DummyScript.crpl" "ManualVar" <-ValueRequired SetScriptVar
If you are happy to require the script to be initialised by your factory, you can dispense with the $Var entirely.
Filter to "Pusillanimous" and you will find a few maps I had created with factories, or equivalents.
Note: Randomness can make the scoring unfair, esp. for good players, where the random outcomes are the greatest influence on times.
Quote from: Builder17 on April 16, 2016, 03:19:02 PM
50 100 RandInt ->Amt
100 200 RandInt ->Delay
Thanks for the help. This works perfectly fine.
Quote from: GoodMorning on April 16, 2016, 09:34:07 PM
Here's something which should work:
$ManualVar:-1
#This can be set yourself, or will randomise if it stays at -1.
once
<-ManualVar -1 eq if
0 100 RandInt ->ManualVar
endif
endonce
Note: Randomness can make the scoring unfair, esp. for good players, where the random outcomes are the greatest influence on times.
Thanks for the answer. This is very clever and helpful fo to understand some process.
Regarding the randomness, of course it 's unfair (especially in he map i am preparing), but it makes a different kind of game
I'm not complaining. I don't play for time, only to win and/or relax.
I'm glad it helped. The wiki has a lot of good stuff on CRPL, so many further queries might be answered there.
Until next time.
Very nice map.
Agreeing that terrain was nice. If you want to make the terrain more important, don't give terps. This means you'll have to give the players all terrain that they actually need, so that needs more care when balancing.
Hard initially, easier later. Didn't need the shield (hadn't seen that kind of price before :o ), didn't bother to build Berthas. Actually too easy in the late game.
One thing that's super helpful is giving players some idea of progress. You don't know how far into the game you are if you don't know whether killing something creates something else or not. E.g. make the non-spawning enemies smaller.I am one of those who hate complete randomness. A bit of variation is okay, but complete randomness and "boom you're dead" with no way of foreseeing what's coming is what I hate. Maybe do something like the spore towers for the emitters; e.g. place an "emitter egg" with a timer, and when the timer is done, replace it with the emitter. That way you can give the player just the amount of preparation time that makes it fun to react.
An idea for a new map: Make something Asteroids (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSupJ5r2zo)-like. I have seen that executed in another map, but it wasn't combined with interesting terrain.
Kalek series of maps was super amazing and exciting for me!
It is pity that he was not continued to create new maps.
Concerning "...Maybe do something like the spore towers for the emitters; e.g. place an "emitter egg" with a timer, and when the timer is done, replace it with the emitter. That way you can give the player just the amount of preparation time that makes it fun to react..." in GRG (Grabz Roulette Game) series was implemented that - new random enemy emitters or Spore Towers has a start delay and players can prepare to struggle with its. :)
In general I recommend to play all series of Kalek maps. This is importand and very creative part of CW3.
Quote from: kalek on April 07, 2016, 11:44:36 AMThat way the random display for the player is only surprizing the first time. If you restart the mission, you know exactly where the ennemies will be dropped... (I am not sure if this is very clear ???)...
It is, but it's a map that requires 10/10 hindsight to play well.
Winning with hindsight is a form of cheating.
Talk about necro'ing a post. :) You are responding to an 8-year old post. That post could be in school by now.
This forum is about maps, and if a map is 8 years old, then there's no choice but revive the thread.
Quote from: toolforger on March 09, 2024, 01:54:46 PMWinning with hindsight is a form of cheating.
I always considered that in CW3 we are taking on the role of a person who has control over time. He can pause time to give him time to plan and think, he can speed time up when necessary, or slow it down (to 1x anyway). He can also travel backwards in time (by replaying the map from the beginning) and he can jump to specific points in time at will (using the save slots).
The ability to control time is the only truly effective advantage we have over the creeper.