This topic is for discussion of map #1395: Blue Vs Red 3
(http://knucklecracker.com/particlefleet/queryMaps.php?query=thumbnailid&id=1395)
Author: FOXX
Size: 388x364
Desc:
In this map it's Blue Vs Red Particles mainly. Lots of Enemy Ships, Doppels & Particles. With Stunners. Mire 100% #LandValueUp #EmergentUp #EditStruc #Mover by GoodMorning #ParticlesOverMiredLand #TiconDefenseRange by Stickman #OmniSpawner by Sorrontis
Pretty slow start, those side islands are very well defended, but once I had them I managed to roll over the rest of the map
wow, you brought the pain ;)
I'm still trying to beat it, had to take a break. Gave up on first game. 10 minutes (timer) into second attempt and I have just taken the right side isle. Damn cannon ship just showed up and is eating all my ships guarding home base
I gave up on attempt two. The cannon ships just keep coming right into my base areas and just smashing the F*** out of everything. This is by far the hardest map I have ever seen. I can only think there is some aspect of the game I have yet to learn. I am thus failing to use that missing "knowledge" and getting my butt handed to me and am unable to advance. Maybe I'll try for a third time tomorrow.
Hat's off Sir on the new map. I have changed named from Map #1395 too "Ball Buster".
Quote from: Jim359 on June 09, 2019, 10:35:25 PM
I gave up on attempt two. The cannon ships just keep coming right into my base areas and just smashing the F*** out of everything. This is by far the hardest map I have ever seen. I can only think there is some aspect of the game I have yet to learn. I am thus failing to use that missing "knowledge" and getting my butt handed to me and am unable to advance. Maybe I'll try for a third time tomorrow.
Hat's off Sir on the new map. I have changed named from Map #1395 too "Ball Buster".
The Bue Vs Red concept has grown out of control ;)
This map requires your emitters to make progress. Your order is the way i did.
First right island then left island then move up through the middle and an option is to spread outwards if to much danger from emitters or ships.
When i reached the top i cleared out the right top side (including mirespawners and land units) and after this i could start miring the land with Omni's and particles. (It's possible to get your particles through the fields at the top by placing a Grabber ship(s) close to the field.
Don't overbuild in the beginning. (i started with Latheship, Tanker and 1 grabber. Followed by another grabber before the discharger ship)
Get your Omni's up to take out the emitter on the right side and if you have destroyed the 2 mirespawners on that piece of land you can overmire the right side of land with your 5 Omni's and your particles.
Hints
- I put the first 2 AmPgems on Omni Reactor and Mine production increase. Then Move/Build Speed en the 4th on Emitter Control.
- Use Edit Struc to make the TiconDefenseGuns shoot at that and you can use EditStruc to take ut enemy mines.
If you still have trouble finishing this map i can post some starting pictures.
Greets
FOXX
Is it possible you accidentally turned something on after you beat it? Map has been up for 24 hours or so now. Only two others besides you have beat it. The other two times go from one hour twenty minutes to over two hours for the second one. Only three people beat it so far. Any chance you'd have time to play the map again?
First I must say I usually love your maps FOXX, keep doing the great work.
This however I don't like. Nothing to defend with against the big MK7 ships and no room for error, if they get you once you can't recover and have to start from beginning as the clear your whole fleet.
(Does anyone have the modes actually work for emitters? Mine has no effect if you set them to Collect/Project/OFF)
I know I could beat it if I keep trying, I just can't be bothered to try hard enough specially with all the great maps currently available.
Yeah, this map has gone into the realm of insanity. I don't know how you possibly beat it in 20'ish minutes. I'm throwing in the towel.
Loved it! Please keep making them ! :)
Quote from: Jim359 on June 10, 2019, 12:16:31 PM
Is it possible you accidentally turned something on after you beat it?
No and i believe that is not possible after uploading to change anything.
QuoteMap has been up for 24 hours or so now. Only two others besides you have beat it. The other two times go from one hour twenty minutes to over two hours for the second one. Only three people beat it so far. Any chance you'd have time to play the map again?
Yes, later on today i have time. The start is most important so i could make some screenshots and post here later on.
Greets FOXX
Quote from: Jage- on June 10, 2019, 02:01:34 PM
First I must say I usually love your maps FOXX, keep doing the great work.
Thanks Jage, appreciate that.
QuoteThis however I don't like. Nothing to defend with against the big MK7 ships and no room for error, if they get you once you can't recover and have to start from beginning as the clear your whole fleet.
(Does anyone have the modes actually work for emitters? Mine has no effect if you set them to Collect/Project/OFF)
I know I could beat it if I keep trying, I just can't be bothered to try hard enough specially with all the great maps currently available.
This map started out as a test and kind of grew into this behemoth. Waayy harder then usual so i can see why you don't like this one. Next map will be more as usual.
I'll have some screenshots here later on today.
For the incoming enemy ships -> I aimed the emitters on them and when they get hit by some particles they will retreat to heal. Later on (halfway the map) you have more particles at hand to take those ships out so they have to rebuild.
And What do you mean by : 'Does anyone have the modes actually work for emitters?'
Greets FOXX
Quote
And What do you mean by : 'Does anyone have the modes actually work for emitters?'
Greets FOXX
I'm not sure what he means. But most of my emitters (the big blue stationary spots that shoot out little blue balls) have stopped working. IE there is no blue dots coming out making my games impossible it seems.
Quote from: Jim359 on June 11, 2019, 10:16:17 AM
I'm not sure what he means. But most of my emitters (the big blue stationary spots that shoot out little blue balls) have stopped working. IE there is no blue dots coming out making my games impossible it seems.
Most likely reason for that is total particle limit, when it fills both red and blue particles stop increasing until some are destroyed.
Quote from: FOXX on June 11, 2019, 07:40:25 AM
And What do you mean by : 'Does anyone have the modes actually work for emitters?'
Greets FOXX
When you have the amp gem set on "emitter control" you can obviously control the direction.
Besides the direction, choosing an emitter gives you a "menu" where you can choose a mode for that emitter (Collect/Project/OFF).
I would think they should function as described, but those have never worked for me even with original maps.
It would be very useful if you could turn OFF "unnecessary" emitters to avoid the particle limit.
Quote
Besides the direction, choosing an emitter gives you a "menu" where you can choose a mode for that emitter (Collect/Project/OFF).
Quote
Most likely reason for that is total particle limit, when it fills both red and blue particles stop increasing until some are destroyed.
Ohhhhhhh. I did not know this. Thank You.
Aha, i understand now.
This map has a lot of Doppels (counts as particles) and particles and for example those top emitters spawn 300-400 particles each so if you reach max particles on this map then it's a disadvantage for your blue particles.
I don't exactly know how the game handles that situation but it affects also blue particles.
So even more challenging.
ps -> Start images follow soon.
My take on beating this map:
Some tips first
- I put the first 2 AmPgems on Omni Reactor and Mine production increase. Then Move/Build Speed en the 4th on Emitter Control.
- Use Edit Struc to make the TiconDefenseGuns shoot at that and you can use EditStruc to take ut enemy mines.
- The Flip Emitters have Grow Struc function so they can help creating Struc.
- Before completely miring a part of land turn away your particle stream or you'll end up with a lot of unused particles.
- If you have particles between the Enemy TiconDefenseGuns and your Latheships you can Lathe the TiconDefenseGuns because the Guns will shoot at closest particles.
- Incoming MK7 Ships after about 9 mins
Incoming Double MK7 Ships after about 12 and half mins
If you keep overview from here you can see the ships coming and you can aim your particles where you need them. When the ships get hit by some particles they will retreat for healing up. Later on you have enough particles to try to destroy them so they have to rebuild.
Startimages
The last 2 images are taken from a savefile so time is off on those 2 (little faster)
Images
(https://i.imgur.com/dLtNqAT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/awcytHw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RAYSiEa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nlfmIMC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5AXHV3o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uBiQhHj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h7qRZPI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kjnO0ac.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WYEfRqC.jpg)
In the end it's not about destroying all units (but thats always fun) but to mire the land so i only took out the right top side and starting miring the top land part.
Guess this is a map where you need to pause in the beginning for making a good start. Didn't test this though.
For those who want to finish this map and have an issue just ask here and i will assist.
Good Luck
FOXX
I was surprised to see such a low score on this map until I started to play it, At this time I have not finished it and to be honest am not sure I will. It seems more like a micromanage map then a normal just play FOXX map.
For me having to constantly pause a map takes the fun right out of it. Also if you haven't got both bottom right and left by 10 mins it seems the map is unwinnable. Once the double Mk7's show up there is nothing that I can see that you can do to get ships built. So restart is the option required.
Thanks for making maps just hope you go back to you're older level of difficulty.
Cheers.
Hi Chwooly,
Consider this map a 'Special' one.
Ideas have gotten a little bit out of hand.
Greets
FOXX
Woo 8), it took me a second try after I learned first-hand that I should have read the mission description better
Spoiler
I thought it was an elimination type map. It was not..... it was 100% mire :-[!
But I just barely beat your time FOXX by 4 seconds ;D
Also for those using the alternate settings for emitter control, I've found that after you change the menu setting, you have to adjust the aiming direction for the emitter for the new change to apply. weird quirk, but it works for me.
Nice time ChaosMaster130 and funny you say that. I kind of forgot also in my finalized run.
I was already miring the top land and going for the top left ship section when the victory message came.
I think after you take the lower part of the map and just go through the middle and start miring the top land asap - 20 minutes might be possible.
But not going to test that ;)
Greets
FOXX
Foxx oraz someone please send a movie how to win first 10 minutes. I cant hold this anymore.
Quote from: nietopsze on June 17, 2019, 08:20:21 AM
Foxx oraz someone please send a movie how to win first 10 minutes. I cant hold this anymore.
Hi Nietopsze,
The startimages is not sufficient?
Greets
FOXX
Movie please
Hmm, the only one i know of who plays and records recent pf maps is Particle Maniac.
I can make a start video hopefully friday, if nothing changes.
Not sure but i'll try to make a video.
Greets
FOXX
Quote from: nietopsze on June 19, 2019, 10:54:20 AM
Movie please
Made a startmovie for you.
https://youtu.be/YkOQtBQ5nyc
Greets
FOXX
Thank you foxx for help 3 hours and i win lol
Quote from: nietopsze on June 23, 2019, 01:28:49 PM
Thank you foxx for help 3 hours and i win lol
:)
Welcome and nice you beat the map.
Greets
FOXX
Very hard map.
Even before starting to play, I check forum because of low rate.
Haha, yes it is because it very hard.
Played twice and got shot down easily by the MK7.
Very hard AI.
I was wondering if the ships will continuously become harder.
I saw the images to build struct. I learn something again.
BTW, what's the purpose of Collect feature of the emitters ?
Thanks for your work and sharing.
OK : after a few hours, even following your screenshots, I'm not fast enough and finish to be shotdown (all ships down) by the MK7.
Very hard. Got to give up before I lose my sanity :P
Several have asked about the "collect" and "on/off" settings on the emitters. I play the stand-alone game (not on Steam) and have never gotten them to function so I'm not sure if that helps.
FOXX... I'm not sure if I hate or love this map. I absolutely love a challenging map that does not require much rushing, and I managed to turtle this map but it took a lot of rebuilding.
At this point, there's no sense in "spoilers" so here's my "easy" approach to the map:
1) The Rock Burner function helps to section off part of the island (I went for left first). You can even just make a single block for one collector to gain a foothold. This made taking an island a lot less stressful for me.
2) Once you have the two tanks built, they can supply energy to your fleet while you use your HQ to suicide-bomb whatever big ship is coming your way. The biggest ships take well over a minute to rebuild & attack again. I was happy to see that some ships didn't rebuild at all.
3) The sides of the top are much easier to take than the middle. Land a few omnis and then take out those pesky ship bases.
A lot of the time, I was just using ships as shields, suiciding them just to take one or two emitters, doppels, etc. That took a lot of rebuilding time, which means afk time since there's no reason to sit and watch stuff just rebuild. I would've preferred a couple strong shielding ships but that would've made the game a lot easier.
Overall, I think it's a really well-designed map. My PF skills aren't up to my CW3 ability so if I can finish this map I'd imagine most others could as well. Just takes some patience. :o
Thanks for the mission! ;D
Quote from: jelus on December 16, 2020, 12:35:17 PM
Very hard map.
Even before starting to play, I check forum because of low rate.
Haha, yes it is because it very hard.
Played twice and got shot down easily by the MK7.
Very hard AI.
I was wondering if the ships will continuously become harder.
I saw the images to build struct. I learn something again.
Sorry for the late reply Jelus,
this message has somehow slipped my attention last year.
In this map harder enemy ships will come to you after time.
So a map for quick action.
I also have a feeling without using the EditStruc this map may be near impossible to finish.
QuoteBTW, what's the purpose of Collect feature of the emitters ?
I don't know. Not used that personally.
QuoteThanks for your work and sharing.
OK : after a few hours, even following your screenshots, I'm not fast enough and finish to be shotdown (all ships down) by the MK7.
Very hard. Got to give up before I lose my sanity :P
Welcome and hope you got the map by now.
Greets,
FOXX
Quote from: Johnny Haywire on January 13, 2021, 05:08:53 PM
Several have asked about the "collect" and "on/off" settings on the emitters. I play the stand-alone game (not on Steam) and have never gotten them to function so I'm not sure if that helps.
FOXX... I'm not sure if I hate or love this map. I absolutely love a challenging map that does not require much rushing, and I managed to turtle this map but it took a lot of rebuilding.
At this point, there's no sense in "spoilers" so here's my "easy" approach to the map:
1) The Rock Burner function helps to section off part of the island (I went for left first). You can even just make a single block for one collector to gain a foothold. This made taking an island a lot less stressful for me.
2) Once you have the two tanks built, they can supply energy to your fleet while you use your HQ to suicide-bomb whatever big ship is coming your way. The biggest ships take well over a minute to rebuild & attack again. I was happy to see that some ships didn't rebuild at all.
3) The sides of the top are much easier to take than the middle. Land a few omnis and then take out those pesky ship bases.
A lot of the time, I was just using ships as shields, suiciding them just to take one or two emitters, doppels, etc. That took a lot of rebuilding time, which means afk time since there's no reason to sit and watch stuff just rebuild. I would've preferred a couple strong shielding ships but that would've made the game a lot easier.
Overall, I think it's a really well-designed map. My PF skills aren't up to my CW3 ability so if I can finish this map I'd imagine most others could as well. Just takes some patience. :o
Thanks for the mission! ;D
Hi Johnny,
Yeah, i may have gone a bit far with the challenge on this map. I had to pause a lot myself to get this one.
I didn't use RockBurner but that is a good idea for this map.
And i have forgotten to add Shield-Hammer type ships more then once ::)
Nice you finished the map.
Greets,
FOXX
Well, it has been a couple weeks shy of three year's, but I finally came back t this map. Beat it too, such a ball buster. Thanks for all the maps :)