Custom Map #1394: Autobuild FPS 7. By: Auri

Started by AutoPost, April 22, 2021, 08:17:35 PM

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This topic is for discussion of map #1394: Autobuild FPS 7


Author: Auri
Size: 256x160

Vyce223

I enjoyed this one. The addition of orbitals was nice and the even further upgraded queue system was really nice.

Shatterstep

Very enjoyable map. Good changes to the mortar, nice layout, and good pacing. Well done.

Never got to the orbitals. I'll have to replay and aim for them. (I was going to replay a few times anyway ;)

AgRecluse

The mortar got some love, but it still just doesn't seem quite as good as the cannon or sprayer. Honestly, the sprayer needs a nerf IMHO, if you're worried about balance. Maybe have the mortar shoot multiple projectiles as it's power increases so it covers more area?
The orbital weapons are fun to use, but IMO they cost to many upgrade points for how often you get to use them. It feels like a choice between effective weaponry and awesome spectacle. Also, I'm having an issue with the queue system, repeating upgrades, and multiple point pick-ups: the queue system doesn't seem to consistently use all the points I get from multi-point pick-ups when I've queued the weapon power upgrade repeatedly. No other issues, though; the queue system's really handy  ;D

This is a really good map. It's got a reasonably fast start, some useful choke points, and nice high-ground positions the auto-build weapons can hold. I'm having a blast! Good job on the map!  :)

Shatterstep

Quote from: AgRecluse on April 23, 2021, 03:45:06 AM
the sprayer needs a nerf IMHO

Please no, not this.

The cannon is still better than the sprayer - except in circumstances where there isn't enough creeper or there is crimson creeper. When there isn't enough creeper damage gets wasted, but the sprayer at least leaves behind AC.

9two436

Actually the sprayer is more powerful than the cannon, but only if you get the sprayer area upgrade. Its does becomes more than the cannon (without the cannon area upgrade) or about as powerful as the cannon (with the cannon area upgrade). The main reason that the sprayer is better than the cannon is that no dps is ever wasted, but with the cannon, some is if you use it on weaker creeper. And against crimson.... AC. Obviously.

Vyce223

Had a fun third playthrough where I set a fun little "challenge" for myself. I wouldn't fire a single shot personally, only would use abilities and auras and was able to clear the map in a reasonable time. Being able to put down that extra AC breeder was helpful especially early. Then later game it really allowed the full use of the orbitals since I wasn't spending any points on weapons I was able to get them rather early and clear large sections per rain.

Durikkan

#7
Quote from: AgRecluse on April 23, 2021, 03:45:06 AM
The mortar got some love, but it still just doesn't seem quite as good as the cannon or sprayer. Honestly, the sprayer needs a nerf IMHO, if you're worried about balance. Maybe have the mortar shoot multiple projectiles as it's power increases so it covers more area?
The orbital weapons are fun to use, but IMO they cost to many upgrade points for how often you get to use them. It feels like a choice between effective weaponry and awesome spectacle. Also, I'm having an issue with the queue system, repeating upgrades, and multiple point pick-ups: the queue system doesn't seem to consistently use all the points I get from multi-point pick-ups when I've queued the weapon power upgrade repeatedly. No other issues, though; the queue system's really handy  ;D

This is a really good map. It's got a reasonably fast start, some useful choke points, and nice high-ground positions the auto-build weapons can hold. I'm having a blast! Good job on the map!  :)

I was trying to do it without messing with the current specialties too much.  Increasing the area felt like too much.  Will probably continue to mess around with the balance slightly, but probably no major changes in this series. 

As for orbitals, that's fair, I was trying to strike a balance between being over powered and under powered, but it probably needs a bit more tweaking. 

Only getting a single queued upgrade per pickup was an oversight, and will fix that for the next map. 

Quote from: Shatterstep on April 23, 2021, 04:21:47 PM
Quote from: AgRecluse on April 23, 2021, 03:45:06 AM
the sprayer needs a nerf IMHO

Please no, not this.

The cannon is still better than the sprayer - except in circumstances where there isn't enough creeper or there is crimson creeper. When there isn't enough creeper damage gets wasted, but the sprayer at least leaves behind AC.

I hadn't really looked in depth to the balance, and the sprayer is probably slightly stronger than it should be, especially after the upgrade, its small aoe means increasing the range by 1 makes a bigger relative difference.  At max energy and with both having upgrades, cannon has 453 dps and the sprayer has 451.  Granted the sprayer has the hidden disadvantage of not being able to make creeper more than 30 deep (A limit I relaxed slightly for this level, it was 25 before), that's still probably too powerful.  If it's better than the cannon against normal creeper, it absolutely destroys it vs crimson. 

I think it's probably fine at normal levels, I just need to adjust it a bit so that the area upgrade doesn't just multiply its power by 2.3x (compared to the roughly 1.5x for the cannon and mortar)

Alternatively, I could leave it at the same power, and make it cost 3 or 4 upgrade points. 
I'm known as Auri in cw4.

Niflthaena

* Wonderful progression and upgrades. Played through about 8 times with different builds, and I'm very impressed with the range of viable builds among all the varied weapons, auras, and abilities.
* Very much enjoying how there's enough options to require meaningful sacrifices.
* The map is much more resistant to cheese than the previous one - the dug-in creeper makes it much more difficult to rush upgrades, which smooths the power curve.
* The different areas of the map set up nicely varied fights, but the terrain could do more to set moods for them. Having different visual themes... square fortifications, like you used in AFPS 6... steep mountains and valleys... and the rolling hills so widely used in the terrain... could help make the aesthetics as striking as the gameplay.

Regarding orbital balance: I think it's actually quite good where it is. Each of them seem to have a role that fits well with their cost:
* Singularity has an impressive 50% uptime, and is quite handy for getting creeper out of your way. Hard-to-reach upgrades and hard-to-clear nullifiers are much easier with it. No DPS, but it's only 2 points; easy to fit into a build, or even start with to rush the early upgrades.
* Rain provides better AoE damage than anything else in the game. It won't clear a position alone, but paired with a boosted Cannon or Sprayer to keep the center clear, it'll handily ensure nothing gets in the way of nullifying even the worst emitters. Six points isn't cheap, but in the right build it's more than worth it.
* Conversion is not useful alone. It needs Singularity to be truly effective, which is 8 points total cost - close to half of a full build. The effectiveness cannot be understated, though; this combo will clear any emitter, plus a sizable part of the map around it, as long as you're quick with the Fabricator Gun. The only weaknesses are that it's slow to build to, and slow to use - despite its peerless power, it's a few minutes slower than more focused builds.

Rain in particular seems like a dominant support to precision weapon builds; it carried my one sub-14:00 run. It's a little tricky to use effectively, but its potential is so high that making it cheaper runs the risk of making it dominant for every build.

Regarding Mortar DPS... I'm on the fence. A mortar-primary build was the one build I simply could not make work, largely because its best applications - deep and distant creeper - don't actually take and hold terrain. But as a supporting weapon, it is nearly indispensable until late-game.
(It also feels like it scales more poorly than the others, even though the numbers don't say so; I suspect it's because the Sprayer and Cannon gain a wider range of useful situations, but the Mortar's range of utility stays the same size - it just moves. By the time it has enough damage to be useful against 10-20 deep creep, it's wasted against 5-deep creep, where it previously shines.)

CyberDyneSystems

Okay, that was stupid FUN! I was not expecting anything like that!

I will go back and find your previous maps. Between this and your new Super Miner, You are quite a rock star map maker!  8) 8) 8)

AgRecluse

Quote from: Niflthaena on April 24, 2021, 02:19:31 AM
Regarding Mortar DPS... I'm on the fence. A mortar-primary build was the one build I simply could not make work, largely because its best applications - deep and distant creeper - don't actually take and hold terrain.

This. All the way. I remember back in FPS: Anti-up the mortar was KING, but you had to use each weapon effectively to go fast. The mortar was for softening up deep creeper before you move in, the cannon was for clearing shallow creeper, and the sprayer was for seeding breeder and holding ground while you do something else. You had to work with what the map gave you there, though. There was no choice in the upgrades you got. With upgrades, you can use the other weapons and auras to cut through deep creeper better than a mortar can with it's slow fire rate (even after the boost) and nearest-creeper targeting.

Dismissdan

Waiting on #8!

Love your maps. have replayed them all at least a couple times