Fields, exploding stars/black holes, whirly-gigs, snakes… all that and more in the second game play video for Game 4!
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Fresh Ideas in Gaming
Fields, exploding stars/black holes, whirly-gigs, snakes… all that and more in the second game play video for Game 4!
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That wolf being constructed… it can move/attack while being worked on? That is so awesome! It seems that the ships are based on a module-type thingy, so will we eventually be able to build/blueprint our own? I also really like the directional hull damage that comes from the modular system, it just makes everything feel and look way better than a simple health bar. I look forward to hearing more, so keep up the good work!
Yep, ships can move (slowly) once their command module is complete. The command module is the first and central part of a ship. Once it completed, the hull and weapons start to build outward. Each command module comes with a weak inertial drive that will move and rotate the ship, but slowly.
Once an engine (or more) get built, the ship can move and rotate faster. And once weapons come online the ship can dish out revenge.
Some large ships can, in the heat of battle, be deployed before they are fully operational. And of course sometimes you might have to flee before a ship is complete.
As for making your own ships… maybe… wink, wink.
Love it! Can’t wait to play it!
Part of me loves the idea of this being a Creeper World game. It would be super easy to change a few graphics and make this “Creeper World In Space”. Another part of me says “Break out of your shell and do something wild and new!” Either way it will be a blast to play!
Matthew
Just a note… “Game 4” means my 5th published game (in the modern era):
Game 0: WhiteboardWar: Chopraider
Game 1: Creeper World
Game 2: Creeper World 2
Game 3: Creeper World 3
Game 4: TBA
In reply to Michionlion: I love the idea that the game comes with a few base ships and ALL of the other ships are custom made by the user. Build your own for each mission and keep your favorites around all game long! (Note that this is speculation, I have no idea what V has planned.)
Matthew
cant wait until the game is in a state where everyone can play, and its still only alpha! 😀
Hmmm. Seems as though the game is more or less made already and whats left is balancing and game mechanics to be put into place. (Ship designs, modules, particle designs. etc) Virgil do you think that we’d be able to have models that can be manually added or taken away from a ship? Have weight compared to the size of the ship and modules can be heavier than ship plating and each engine block/module can move X amount of blocks at map speed before slowing down? Idk just some idea what came by from watching the video. you probably have thought of most of them already 😀
Ships currently calculate a mass based on hull (normal hull or armor) and from modules like weapon pods. Engine thrust is calculated from the intrinsic inertial drive plus number of engines. Speed is the result of some arithmetic on all of that.
These are some really cool and innovative mechanics. I can’t wait to see what this will look like when it is completed!
Interesting video, just like the first one. 🙂
Some thoughts:
1. Like the other users, I hope that custom ship and enemy designs will be possible in the final game, though probably for custom maps.
2. Does the color of the particles correspond to the force on them? Because it seems like it does?
3. The movement of the phalanxes looks like it could get really jerky if there are particles that only enter their range briefly before being destroyed.
4. Will there be an automatic sort for ship types? Preferably a toggleable one? At the very least, will ships of the same type group themselves together in the build list?
5. Can the presence of ships, both enemy and player, cause changes to local fields? IE, player ships weakly attract particles?
6. When fields are acting on particles that are linked, do they take into account the total mass of the particles? And does rigid vs. nonrigid links matter?
7. Will you be making terrain, at least for visual purposes? Asteroids. for example.
8. Is the ‘friction’ of space tweakable, too? And is it tweakable by area? Like, say, painting a low friction zone.
9. The fact that rotation of ships matters in this game is pretty cool!
A1: No comment 😉
A2: The color is based on the particles speed relative to the game frame.
A3: They can launch and the get recalled… this can currently happen. They have momentum and are a little sloppy, though, so it isn’t too bad. Usually, it is rate for one particle to cross by and then leave, so in practice it isn’t much of a problem. THere are a number of ways I could mitigate the problem. But, I’ve not decided for sure if I will keep the phalanx drones. A simple gun on the energy mine that gets faster the more upgrades purchased is another thing I’m considering.
A4: Yeah, I plan to add that. Maybe a checkbox to sort by class/type/size.
A5: Yep, ships create their own indentations in space. Those fields aren’t show in the video, but are independent of the fields that can be created by an editor or via PRPL.
A6: Individual particles are affected by the field value of the cell of space they occupy. Individual particles can have a variable mass (and max speed, and other things). When you have multiple particles bound together by a link and only one of the particles is affected by a field, that affected particle will get moved by the field and as a consequence the link will tug on the other particle… and vice versa. Part of the beauty of a verlet integration is that I don’t really have to care about the velocity and momentum of each particle… the constraints and integration technique take care of it intrinsically. So if one particle of a large collection (where they are all connected) gets pushed, the mass of the rest of the particles all push back so the whole thing accelerates slowly. Note that I only do one iteration in calculating the constraints (its a game after all and performance matters a lot). So rigid links are still a bit jelly like and act more like damped springs.
A7: No comment 😉
A8: Right now particles have individual drag coefficients among other constraints. Space itself doesn’t have a drag on a cell by cell basis other than the “barrier” space I showed in the first video. But this is by no means the end of the story on this topic….
A9: Yeah, It was a matter of internal debate (me with myself) in the early design days. Having rotation complicates the interface of the game. But I wanted it to matter in tactical situations and that is kinda sorta how it is working out.
3. Particles entering and then exiting may not be a problem, but particles entering and being destroyed by ships could be.
6. The physics behind your games is always pretty interesting. Thanks for the explanation. 🙂
Is particle size another variable? What about color (other than as a speed indicator)? What about particles that have unusual interactions, ie, fusions, gravity, inverted reactions to forces?
The other neat thing about your games is that physics based simulations lends themselves nicely to all manner of ideas. 🙂
Particle size might be something I leave fixed. When they get big it opens the door to more complex calculations and can slow everything way, way up.
Color… I tried a few different color models. Fixed color is the first obvious one, speed based in the current one, and there are others based on properties associated with the particles. For instance, if a particle carries some value and can share that value when it collides with other particles, then coloring can be use to represent that value.
As for shapes, yeah there are round and square currently and there will probably be at least one other.
Regarding interesting interactions… possibly 🙂
So yes, custom ship designs in some capacity. Ok!
I didn’t even realize you had limited ship capacity the first video. o-o
WHY ARE YOU SO AWESOME? Every video you post makes me happier and happier to be part of your fan base.
does the range upgrade effect the range of defense drones?
how many ship types are there currently?
what is the heaviest (combat) ship?
what is the lightest (combat) ship?
would you be able to customize the colors of the particles in the editor? (there will be an editor right?)
– Those drones currently are not affected by range upgrades.
– There are 7 ships I have used for testing. From the Lathe, to the Carrier. These are just obvious classes of ships, though, and not representative of the final game (though some or all may make it to the final game).
– Carrier
– Lathe
– There is an editor and some color customization will be included.
I love the concepts you’re showing here. I was wondering, how does the range of the Phalanxes, or whatever you decide on for the defensive unit, work? Is it set, does it depend on the range, or could there possibly be a separate upgrade for weapons range from the range of distributing energy? I’m really excited by the idea of customizing your energy sources, and I think it would be fantastic if there were a lot of options all with specific uses and pros and cons.
Right now the range is fixed. And I might not even keep those little drones. But whatever is the final choice it will be up-gradable in some ways.
Please please please, spend some K$ in a talented graphist to get out of this “coder try be artist” zone 🙂
It’s just an alpha and you maybe already planned it for this game.
Any simplistic style would fit, it just need a soul.
I feel like it’s the kind of small thing that can make an huge difference on steam.
Sorry if it’s a bit harsh. I’m just so sad to see such amazing code, physics and balance hided behind that poor makup.
As you said, this is an early alpha. It will get much better by the time it’s a shipped product. Just look at Creeper World 2 and 3 for an example.
And at the moment, I think that graphics are, and should be, a low priority. What we’ve seen looks to me like just the underlying mechanics of the game, and there’s a lot of other systems that need to be developed.
Yeah, I’m really torn between the romance of indy art vs. having a bit better imagery done for the game. His style gives the game a definite “this is a KC game”. If you he did decide to have the art changed I hope it is still simplistic and easy to see. Sometimes too much detail makes a game visually confusing.
This looks awesome, but as it stands those drones seem way overpowered and you didn’t seem to need much energy production to satisfy your ships’ firepower. I realize this is alpha (or pre-alpha) but something to consider.
Also, I think it’s a bit strange the ships can repair while being attacked. It was rare you had to retreat at all. I think it would be more interesting if the repair only began after a ship stopped getting hit for at least 1-2 seconds. This kind of forces a push and retreat mentality that I think would make the game more interesting to play.
Ex. Try and push towards taking down a node….shoot…ships are taking too much of a beating…better fall back, repair, and try again.
Currently, watching this makes me feel like it’s just CW with particles instead of goo. The gameplay isn’t hugely different so far and with particles being able to move and attack at will I think it COULD be MUCH more interesting. My only complaint with CW was that often you already beat a level 20% of the way in…after that it was just a matter of cleaning up and making sure you don’t do anything stupid to set you back.
Better art? I have no idea what you are talking about. For me this is an awesome UI 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xptc6f3Daoo
But yeah, I’ve already started talking to artists. What you see in these videos is the result of a 99% focus on finding a core mechanic I can expand into a game. It isn’t easy and despite the books written on the subject, there’s no formula for it.
One other thing I can say on the art is that my games do tend to look like they were made by an atari 2600 game designer from 1978 that got frozen in that sup’d up space shuttle Buck Rogers was in and then crash landed in the late 1990s. He got out and then went to town with the technology of the 1990s.
I also put these constraints on myself to make the game customization by nearly any potential player. That means, for instance, that in the game the ship hulls are made up of simple shapes (squares and triangles) and can be formed into any hull shape any kid could make using those ships. That constrains the beauty of the ship to things like custom textures and other things I’ll include in the game.
But things like interface art, character art, background art, weapon art, more effects… all of that will get due attention once I am happy with the core mechanic.
Oh, I completely understand. It’s basically a working model and I assumed nothing less. The art is not as important as the fun of the games. Personally, I liked the art of CW3 mostly because it was easy to see what it was you were looking at.
Whatever you decide, just make sure the imagery is not visually busy.
Looks awesome. But what is the Story behind the “particles”(the enemy) or how they are called? Are they build by the loki to Transport creeper-emitters to other planets? would be cool.
The story isn’t yet written, but it is imagined. That’s all I can say for sure…
I don’t really know how to word this question other than
What are your ‘plans’ for this game and where are you ‘planning’ to go with it?
Alpha, Beta, Greenlight, Release, Play, Play some more, acquire Valve, Microsoft, Electronic Arts (not necessarily in that order).
If you get EA i’m hoping you beat the company in to shape. They need some one who knows what there doing.
man i really like where this game is going gj 😀
Main i would love to program like you. and to play your game at decent speeds.
Creeper world 1 plays at normal Tick Rate hardly any slowdown. then the creep builds and the ticks slow but the FPS remains High
Creeper world 2 Same Deal here except the tick rate hardly slows untill the fancy level where ANTI CREEP become Creep then its go APESHITE
Ceeper world 3 Same deal here Small wolds are great as my PC can run it. but the UBER LARGE ONES are no go. Tick rate slows down for me NOT THE CREEP. which is a problem.
This new game. Cant wait to play it but expecting Tick/FPS slowdown due to HORRID RIG
Keep up the good work virgilw
Also if intrested for Specks and all my system is a Dell Dimention 3100 Factory stock
Dude. An uber cheap computer today would kill those specs. Your memory…well everything is to blame.
For the love of all that is good and holy, please get yourself a new rig, lol.
Even just this slaughters your current computer:
http://www.abt.com/product/84252/Lenovo-90B70019US.html
anything with a GRAPHICS CARD would slay my computer and T-Bag it into Oblivion
You don’t even NEED graphics card for this game. I am playing CW3 on a laptop with Intel 4000 integrated graphics and it doesn’t even slow down until perhaps the end of the maximum sized maps.
What you need is more RAM. Its quite cheap and makes wonders with old computers. Just make sure theyre compatible.
Do you have a guss whin it will come out?It really looks fun!!!!!
Personally, I would keep the energy and range upgrades, but I think the phalanx drones ought to be separate and not affect space occupation of each command mod.
And if you’re going to have “smart particles”, I think you should have them all either take shapes or move out and about. (all others that just sit around seem like they should either look prepared to attack, or look like they fit in as nearly motionless reserves that seem to only act when ships are incoming)
This is just awesome.
For a pre-alpha video the UI seems decent enough and the basic core is in place. About that UI, keep in mind the CW interfaces don’t have any bling either but are very effective to use. Your enemy is a tile of blue and we blasted immense loads of those. Who needs graphics anyway? With gameplay like that, a fancy UI would only distract.
It might be a bit early to ask this, but are you planning on implementing a CRPL-like feature? I’ve seen what people do with it and they basically create a second game within the original game. It’s just one of the many reasons the community is so enthusiastic about your games.
It’s called PRPL this time and is already in place. Now I do have a lots of additional commands to add, but the core commands and some particle/bond/field manipulation commands are already in place. In the video, the black hole that turns on and off is actually done with a PRPL script.
So u did away with CRPL script?
Creeper Reverse Polish Language vs Particle Reverse Polish Language. That’s the main difference.
It still works the same and has dozens of the same commands (flow control, logic, math, etc… are all the same). The difference is game specific commands for Creeper World aren’t present and are instead replaced with specific commands for this game.
ah so its just a polished down version of CRPL Thanks for clarifying Virgilw. and i cant wait to see how this game evolves
i recently dropped a comment on this youtube video, but i have a few more questions (and maybe a repeat i didnt want to forget about)
1.) will there be a limited number of ships on one map? it would be cool to see a mechanic such as ore in cw2 or 3 that is used to build ships past the ones placed on the map and given at the beginning
2.) will we be able to create any energy collection fields such as collector or reactor arrays in past games? it would be cool to see and the idea of maybe floating solar panel ships to create their own low energy output fields would be cool
3.) will there be terrain? Terrain has been a major part of every map in the past 3 creeper world games and it would make a very odd game to not have the terrain mechanic
4.) How much variation will we see in the creeper structure? ive already seen the 3 in the videos already posted but how much variation can we expect?
5.)How intelligent will creeper become? it would be very cool in my mind to have smart creeper, that maybe makes an organized attack on your base and defenses instead of you attacking it, and maybe a defend the point type mission where its your job to defend against the creeper, instead of always attacking it
6.)Will we see a return of the bombers/strafe aircraft in a different form? that was one of my favorite features in creeper world 1 was the drone bombers, and although it was brought back and re-balanced in creeper world 3, it would be awesome to see it make a return
7.)will the power weapons from cw3 be brought back? i thought the idea of the berthas was awesome and i really wished there were more variety in the power weapons, as the bertha was the main one i used
8.) How will upgrades work? the upgrades have been in the games since cw1 and i was wondering how they might be implemented in this game, as in the past 2 the upgrades has made my attacking a lot easier and each unit a lot more effective, almost to the point where it became almost easy mode towards the end of the level or if i afk farmed a load of points before actually starting the mission
3) It seems that Virgil has ideas here that he doesn’t want to reveal quite yet.
4) There’s been suggestions that there will be more forms than the ones we’ve seen so far. I suspect that the only limitation will be creativity and the physical size of the particles.
Also, this isn’t Creeper. They’re particles!
8) Considering that there’s a drive for fastest time among many players, I don’t think that this is a problem. In addition, there have always been missions where the player can’t just sit back and turtle, since that would mean that something vital will be destroyed. Corvus in CW1, Horror in CW2, and Fabor in CW3 are prime examples.
3: What if he blended Creeper World-style gameplay on planets, with this Space-based gameplay? Having the ability to fight on two fronts, in space and on a planet surface, could be awesome. and one could impact the other (Ex. A ship can shoot missiles down onto the surface to destroy Creeper, while surface structures could send particles or stations up into space. Having exploding debris fall to a planet would be cool, too).
Some missions would be all space or all planet. In order for this to work, though, he needs to make the game into Creeper World 4 (unless be can think of a way to do terrain based gameplay with something else)
I purchased Creeper World 3. I play it steadily. I have played Chop Raider and wondered if the fun of it could be flourished.
The videos that Virgil produces are not only entertaining, they are educational. I like the simplicity of the interface for adding micro structures to the captured power points. I like how the ships can go under and over each other, but can not station or position in the same space. I like the concept behind the fleet menu on the left, but I also wonder about switching it from one side of the screen to the other. I also notice that the large missile carrier ship has a smaller icon in the fleet menu and that seems a little strange to me. It’s dandy that the little ship icons can be moved around, but I am concerned about having sufficient space for doing so.
The fun part about this video is not knowing exactly where and how Virgil is going to progress the particle and particle structure concepts. The variation in designs is neat and could add a puzzle solving element if they were large or complex enough. Particles that moved in the shape of a magnet’s flux field, with layers, could be an interesting challenge.
Thank you for the video.
played a recent level of Creeper world 3 ALPHA SECTOR the mission took me 8 hours to beat but the ingame timer said it only took 1:32.45 yes One Hour Thirty Two minutes and Fourty Five Seconds.
my computer CANT PLAY THIS GAME at any decent Tick Rate (frames are not the issues if the time diffrence is so high)
also discovered something. Packets for weapons are EXTREMLY SLOW im not talking speed im talking about in supply rate. 3 Thors and they were barely getting 1 packed a second with max everything 29 Energy storage, 21 Creeper storage, and 100+ Packet speed! Thor burns through those packets so quickly why is he receving such a slow supply of them?
Which level?
Teks010 Thor’s Thunder
That’s an unusually large and busy level, and would be taxing on many computers.
my computer chugs even on the smallest levels with High creep counting
but that wasn’t the issue of the toppic the main thing is that Resorces are only given out at 1 per tick. when you have a Crap ton of cannons then it may be an issue but i had 3 Thor’s the ultamate weapon. when i had only the first one it was receving 13 packets a second. but when i got down to the the 3 they were not receving nearly as much. and i had way more EXTRA power to spare.
i was producing 985 and the packets being generated was bouncing between 280 and 340. I had more than enough power to spare for an Increase in packet production
Units have a maximum request rate for resources, even if they’re fully depleted. I don’t know what these are for the Thor, but it would not surprise me if it can deplete its supply faster than it can request energy.
Also, start a topic on the forum for this. It’s easier to keep track of replies and is faster since Virgil has to approve all blog comments.
virgilw have you considered Porting these games over to PS4/Xbox 1? so many popular PC games have done it. and RTS games do work on the consoles during the PS3/xbox360 era many RTS games came out and were very sucessful.
just an idea but with the PS4 being Computer Friendly in codding (according to the head developer) you could possible port all 3/4 games and maybe even bundle the first 3 games (some online features would be lost. or you could find a way to solve them) your choice man i wont judge. (unless you go exclusive like PS4/Xbox 1 only. then i would judge as exclusive dont work too well unless your a tripple A title or riding the backbone of an OLDER tripple A title like Call of Duty (yes im saying the only reason Advanced Warfare is sucessful is because its name ALONE)
anywho im going to stop here before i really start to rant on. Your choice man its your game.
do you have a name?
Virgil Wall, or did you mean the game?
Greetings Virgil!
This game is looking rather good for a Pre-Alpha.
But I’ve read though all the comments and have some suggestions for you. 🙂
1: I thing the idea of particles being able to rebuild an emitter on an energy source, ( or station for that matter ) once they reach “Critical Mass” at the location, is a pretty relevant thing, now that this is a different universe, and you cant use the Loki to warp stuff in everywhere. 🙂
And also, it would lend another inch of depth to enemy stations. Witch, had to of been constructed by something.
2: And on that note, maybe stations could construct there own, “Particle Frigates” ( I know there are Snakes and ParalleloParticles and possibly way cooler things you’ve though of. but ) because, the way I see it, particles are like raw resources, basic units, and could form up into more advanced, more capable things, but they need something to co-ordinate them into these more powerful constructs. ( obviously these things are far less powerful then our Mighty Battle Cruisers. )
If anything, it would mean that you don’t “win” the game, once you’ve only played about 20% of it. Gives some good longevity.
3. And finally, Multplayer. Virgil. I’m not kidding. This game is ( even in pre-alpha ) perfect for an Asymmetrical multiplier game.
Amusingly, I pressed enter instead of shift-Enter. Haha… So to continue.
3. – After years of people begging for a multiplayer version of any of your Creeper World games, this might be it.
So yeah, thanks for spending your time reading my insanely long comment. And fight on for “Great Justice!”
( I sure hope someone gets that reference… )
Might I suggest something?
I think that while the ship module things are cool, being able to mine resources to actually build them would be cooler. For example: You can build a Miner upgrade on a power source, that would run out and mine Ore and Crystals from asteroids or destroyed hull parts in the PS’s range. Ore would be used to build ships, and Crystals would be used to build weapons like Fusion Torpedoes that could be launched from a PS. You still need the blueprint to build it, though.
There should also be a ‘main base’ of some kind, like a power source, but it is larger and cannot be destroyed (Basically Odin City or a Command Node, but as a space station).
I love all your games, Its awesome that you keep us posted. I’ve been around since Creeper World check your site every few months play the games weekly… Great games, Cant wait to see how this one turns out. Would be sweet if my fiance could get this for my Christmas gift. So work harder and faster and get this out pronto lol. Honestly i still need to beat a bunch of CW3 content and
unlock some more achievements on steam so take your time.
Keep asking him Questions people…
I like that you guys keep him on his feet with so many thoughts and questions it makes it so much easier for people like me to follow his games and progress when all we have to do is check back every so often and read up a bit… I guess with awesome games comes an awesome fan base. Keep up the great work cant wait to throw money at you for this one as well
No new updates? everything going ok virgilw?
Been really busy adding some new game play features… as in fundamental stuff. More when I have something to show….
If he puts HD testures to all…,many computers (like mine)are a bit slow (but i was able to play creeper world 3).
Welcome to my world my PC doesn’t have a dedicated graphics card and it plays Creeper world 3 at a decent speed. untill the creep builds up to a point where the tick rate starts to slow which means if 1 second = 32 ticks (minecraft refernce) when it start to get to that point of creep build my PC go at 1 second = 1 tick
A few questions
1. Is there a preorder button?
2. WHY ARE YOU SO AWESOME?
3. Will you code this for Windows’ universal code? Having Xbox and Windows 10 Mobile editions would be awesome.
4. Will the final release be remotely similar to this?
5. Could I please, please, please, please be a beta tester?
6. Where and how did you learn to code?
Very roughly when will this be ready? e.g. before the end of he year or in about 6 months etc…
Early to mid 2016 would probably be a reasonable guess, depending on how much he’s already done.
However, you shouldn’t ask a developer for a release date. If Virgil was psychic and could spew out the date it would be released, I’m sure he would, but the best and most accurate answer you’ll ever get out of most developers is “It’ll be done when it’s done.”
Even very rough estimates such as the ones you suggested usually end up being wrong, as there will always be some things that developers don’t account for, which could potentially postpone the release by months. If developers do give these rough estimates this far out, then it’s almost always met with disappointment from the fanbase, because either they think the developer lied to them, or the developer released the game before it was ready to be released (which I highly doubt Virgil would do).
As such, it’s nearly impossible for Virgil to give any accurate estimate of the release date until a few days/weeks before it’s ready to be released. Just judging from how he previously worked on CW2 and CW3, I’d guess that you shouldn’t expect to see it until 2016.
I really wish you would early access your games on Steam (would be best option I think) or even on your website.
I plan to do that actually… once I get past these early alpha stages I plan to ‘early access’ and do a much more open late-alpha/beta phase.
That sounds great!