So many missions, so little time. The week we have another beta player video. The mission this week is from a DMD map and the player/video meister is Blaze. Enjoy this assault while he takes back the main land from the Creeper menace.
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That was a good run through, and it looks like a fun map. I have to ask though – why no relays on the forward island? Every time you laid out an emitter it starved for a while when there were available packets in guppies that were out of direct contact with the emitter.
I just never thought of it, I’m more of casual player really.
Blaze’s way has additional benefits. I agree that I would have done the relays and had all the guppies land in one place but with his way he didn’t have to waste packets on construction of relays and also didn’t have to protect easily destroyable relays from the spores.
Relay construction on the forward land: exactly what I would have done in this case. I would have probably gotten the same time or less because I am a total terraforming nut in the economic sense.
I should add that bombing the area ahead of the small peninsula instead of on it was more effective than I thought it would be. At first I would have made the bombers attack the peninsula in a small vector.
Agreed with Koker, you could have used relays with great advantage, and grouped landing spots for the Guppies in the bottom, and it would have gone a lot more smooth for you.
Nice vid either way.
I’m looking forward to using guppies to assist forward assaults. It seems every time I attempt this in CW1 it ends up being a battle of how quickly can I replace the dying cannons.
That’s ’cause you don’t have Guppies.
Well, this looks fun. My personal opinion on how to play through this: set up a Relay network and keep adding to it as you advance on the beachhead and send as many Guppies as possible while also making liberal use of the SuperWeapon (TM) of the Forge.
And because I’m bad at staying focused on my original question: How does the algorithm choose packet pathways? Is it based on speed (lowest time) or shortest distance? So if I had a series of Relays spanning 120 cells and Collectors spanning 80 cells from Command Node to target, which path would be taken?
shortest distance. The Computer sees relays as having a shorter distance though…..
That would make sense. Give the relays the same value distance-wise as normal links, but give them 2x the range, and 2x the packet speed. Then it’s a simple “shortest path” problem. I’m sure the real algorithm is a tad more complicated though 🙂
Yup. I’m sure it’s prone to floating-point errors too since all connections between two nodes (Collector/Relay/Guppy/Command Node – anything) can be represented as vertical or horizontal lines with length equaling a natural number or as the hypotenuse of a right triangle. The former shouldn’t cause any problems, but the irrational numbers in the latter’s outputs will. If you have two nodes exactly 2^(1/2) cells away and the algorithm rounds off to two decimal places (1.41 instead of 1.41421356…) and THEN divides it by two if they are Relay – Relay connections (.71), then it could potentially mess up calculations. Given that if all units are placed on a Cartesian coordinate plane (The common (x, y) rectangular plane you’ll use all through algebra. Stay in school, kids!) with x and y equaling natural numbers, this should very very rarely affect anything. That’s assuming I’m right in my assumptions of calculating distance 😉
You put it so simply… all math done by the computer will have absolutely no problem calculating the end result. Floating point errors should not even be a problem…
I believe the algorithm cuts relay distince in half, because speed over their transmission lines is doubled. So basically the algorithm looks for the shortest but it ends up being the fastest.
Speed and short time? well,doesn’t speed means short time and short time means speed? isn’t it logic? 🙂
And I wanted to say
let’s consider 1 relay 2x speed
1 collector 1x speed
We have 25 relays and 50 collectors equal away from CN
The packets will be send throught relays,Cn considers it a better path to send them
realize date please
yeah i second that release date pretty please with a cherry on top
It’s on it’s way. Patience is a virtue. 🙂
I am hoping for May 31st 🙂
I trully hope you are a prophet, I am waiting so bad for this game I get jitters.
4th of july is my bet.
there’s still a lot to do it seems.
Agree,4th of July or 1st of July also,but I bet for the first one.
For those that missed it, post 81 here: http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=11166.75
It not only has a statement from Virgil concerning the release date, but also some excellent poetry! Avoid at all costs if you hate boats, though.
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=11166.msg94804#msg94804 That is the actual post, your link only goes to the topic…
Ah, I see. Thanks. Using a bit of copy paste and the source for the page I finally know how to link to a specific post. Most useful!
Thanks 🙂
AH, yet another video to feed my fix! I watch these in full screen mode, and find myself trying to take over and click on stuff. And I’m always surprised when I can’t. Can’t wait to play myself 🙂
me to but i cant aford the game so i play the free internet veshoins
Haha, I do that all the time too! I’ll want to know what is happening in another part of the map and try to zoom there.
I almost feel bad to be the hundreth person to comment about the relays… I instantly thought to group the guppies at the bottom when I saw there were blasters there :p
Nice video anyways. Virgilw must be getting close to release! 🙂
even if he had them unless he used them properly he could still have dying cannons
What happens if you put guppie landing in a power zone of dead emiter?
Good question! We haven’t seen it yet [afaik]! My assumption would be that it acts similar to collectors where it expands the range of what can connect to it.
My guess would be that it would carry more packets/travel faster
to make it carry more packets and travel faster the landing station would need to be on a power zone (i think) landing itself on a powerzone may do nothing or act as a collector
I am wondering if its possible to place ore and emitters one over another, and what would happen with the ore rig if its placen on the powerzone over the ore… If its not possible to place ore and emitter on the same place, what about a CRPL script that places a powerzone on the ore and removes the one under the emitter when the emitter to the left of the ore gets destroyed? questions over questions…
My comment was assuming that the pad was constructed over the PZ. My guess is that it might gain range if landed on a PZ, but I wouldn’t count on it.
I asked V about what would happen if you landed a guppy on a PZ but the pad was else where, at that time he said nothing would happen, but that was many months ago.
Now (if anything at all) I would guess extra range, the pad being on a PZ would give speed, capacity, and possibly range.
thinking about it I would say large range boost if it only landed, but the others if it was built there.
For those who ask:
You get guppy Upgrades if you B U I L D the guppy on the PZ not to land it
and:
Question: What happends if I build X on PZ?
Answer:
-Collector-enlarge range
-Relay-Enlarge their long connections
-CN-You cannot;CN is 4 “blocks” on terrain,PZ is only on one block. SAME FOR BERTHA AND FORGE!
-Reactor-More energy
-Guppy-Not sure,Speed and Packet Capacity i think
-Shield-Enlarge range
-Cannon-Fire Rate and Range
-Mortar-Same as Cannon
-Sniper- Same as cannon
-Strafers- One more MG attached on it(watch Dungeon Novice,last minutes of video)
-Bombers-Capacity of AC
-Nullfier-?!? Who would put a nullfier on PZ ?!? anyways, let’s say Range
-Beam-Range,maybe Ammunition Capacity(in CW1,the SAMs could fire 2-3 STA missiles(soil-to-air) and then no more ammo)
-Sprayer-I think same as Beam
-Ore Miner-?!??!!??!?!?!? just if Ore Mine would be stacked with Emitter,then we could talk about Extraction Rate
-Terp-Speed in terraforming(eg.1 to 10 takes a bit too long to be done)
Hope this helped you,Now you can stop asking about that 🙂
you can get boosts to the bertha you just need to center it on the PZ.
Very interesting mission, and it showcases one of the most exciting features of CW3, which is the guppy!
Something, beside the relay thingy others mentioned, came to my mind though.
I wonder how a shield would perform against such a huge mass of creeper as you had at the beginning of the video.
Would the creeper be held at the border of the shield? Would it seep halfway through the shield? Would the shield just be overwhelmed and die if unsupported? I’m really curious as to how strong a shield is when confronted with such a large pool. Also, does the field of shields stack, i.e. two shields next to each other add their strength to the field?
I do hope the seed for this map will be included in the seed-list too, when the game releases 🙂 Everytime I see a map played, I wonder how my approach would perform compared to the one showed. Makes me want to try out different things 😀
Very nice gameplay, thanks for recording, Blaze! And thanks for putting online for us to see, Virgil! 🙂
PS: This may actually be the first time in months that we went to a weekly schedule with blog updates, really glad to see content show up at a quicker pace 🙂
I’ve been wondering at this too. How does the shield react to overwhelming amounts of creeper?
I think that it will behave like the Repulser from CW2. Too much creeper and it will push through anyway.
On the other hand, I believe Virgil said something about it using more power when there’s more creeper being repulsed, so it might just drain ammo packets faster and be able to hold back the creeper until the power is gone.
Hey Virgil,
I love what you showed us of the game so far.
But in this video I find the sound effect of the Strifers (was that the name? little yellow planes) very annoying. It souns like a sewing machine, rapidly hammering littel needles into my ears. It hurts. Well maybe im just over sensitive, but still.
Maybe you could tweek it a little bit by lowering the highs and adding some base to it.
If not, I will have to come up with strategies that avoid them birdies ones the game comes out.
🙂 GJ
But why did you have so many guppies, also once the first mortar became useless(PZ), you could have used it for something else.
Still GJ
I’m not an overly active follower of the Creeper series but I felt the aerial enemies too dumb previously. Will there be more intelligent ones as well on some levels or they are by design (story etc) unintelligent just like the creeper?
E.g. here they could have attacked in a pack instead of spreading out, try to avoid the lasers, attack the nearest nullifier, attack the same unit in numbers that make it sure the unit will be dead after the wave, randomly give a bigger burst of units or follow a new random path in each round etc. The current way they aren’t as big threat as they could be.
Maybe later in a bonus pack not to delay the release. 🙂
Guess what? CRPL.
Yeah that makes it possible – but does not force anyone to do it. So I hope it will be done. 🙂
Agreed. They are sooo easily countered with a few cannons and even fewer beams. They seem to blow up easily and not target very intelligently (which I realize is very hard to code).
I feel a direct hit by a spore should destroy the hit building. This makes beams more necessary vs. just spamming extra cannons around. I have won maps without any beams/SAMs simply using cannons because they instantly nullify the creeper the second the spore impacts. They also use a lot less energy when doing so making SAMs and Beams not really necessary and thus pointless in the game.
because of space issues, and energy issues on many maps, one spore that gets by will halt your advance for a long time. They are relatively easy to shoot down, as long as you have more than 2 beams, and there are no more than 2 coming at a time.
That’s precisely my point. They are too easy to counter right now. I find spores too easy to deal with.
I have to say that one of the things I am really excited about in this game vs Creeper World 1 is that there is no packet limit. Always bugged me in CW1
in CW1/CW2 I was bugged about selecting eg.collector and place it Click by Click
Now i can Drag and do something like Macro 🙂
One thing kind of bugged me while watching this video, especially near the end when he was wrapping it up. The borders of the screen just aren’t that great… The way the top of the Creeper Island just cuts off in a straight line, and you can see the space graphic behind it. Maybe you could add a border that makes it look like you’re viewing the map through a view-port window or something. Just on the borders of the map to hide the cut-offs, if they were there the whole time they would appear intrusive.
Other than that, this game is looking fantastic.
I noticed that too. Can we get a small border indicating where void edges of the map are distinct from the background void?
But aren’t the void edges and void background the same? You can’t build in void,you can’t build on background (only if you’re not Chuck Norris,otherwise….).
Yes, they are the same, however I think (and this is just my opinion) that it would look better if it had some kind of border just to indicate the edge of the map.
Thirded.
So I just thought of something that might be cool. What if, when you’re trying to choose a landing spot for one of your guns, it made all flying units transparent, or invisible. That way you could actually see the ground when you’re doing a major assault like that. Just something I thought might be cool.
Like!!!
I second that!
flying units and the cloud we see when creeper gets destroyed.
Same for the place we are hovering over with the mouse.
Well I have a question:
Island A Command node and some guppies
Island B Destination of guppies
if I build on island B collectors,what happens?Do the guppies gather the energy from them and fly back to Command Node or they use less packets to power (eg.mortars) from island B?
Collectors on Island B would not collect energy. They would relay the packets from the guppies to their destination, though.
In an old video you could set guppies to “collect energy” mode (and “deliver anticreeper” mode), so you would have to set up a new guppy (different from the ones delivering packets to Island B) to collect the raw energy and bring it back to the command node.
This feature got removed. Our simple minds could most likely not handle such complexity!
As of now, you can only chose between two modes (which is a bit lacking if you think about it):
– Deliver Packets: Brings packets to the front
– Collect Ore: Collects ore from destination network (which needs to be alimented with packets to operate the mines first) and brings it back to the landing pad.
Most notable is the missing of the following order, which takes away most ways to use Sprayers if not connected to a CN-network:
– Deliver Anticreeper: Delivers anticreeper from the landing pad to the destination network.
Thanks for reminding me of this. Now I’m sad again. I love playing with anticreeper 🙁
Virgil, have you considered to undo this reduction in guppy functions? I understand it would increase the manufacturing costs of the guppies in the end, but let’s not kid ourselves, we’re in war, we’re ready to pay the price to deliver anticreeper to the front!
I also liked the idea of having energy generation islands to supplement my main power locations
Yeah, I kind of miss the Harvesters and the Guppy options too. I think that it would get a bit too easy if Guppies could act as capacitors though. If there are five mountains on a map, then your Command Nodes can control three. If capacitor Guppies are used, then you control the whole map, just with a bit of delay. Personally, I think it would make more sense for Harvesters to return and act as energy/ore gatherers and Guppies to act as AC/packet distributors, which would allow you to disable long range gathering and/or distribution to balance a map. It might be a bit late in the dev cycle for this to happen, but if Virgil is a wonderful person, then we shall receive a patch. Along with Bombers and Strafers, you could lock down an entire map. Air superiority is fun, what else can I say?
Had a thought for a nice to have but not required feature. Watching in the beginning the player trying to place a bertha while bombers and strafers obscured the ground made me think a localized alpha-channel of say 85% for the flyers would make it easier to see & place things beneath them. To avoid edge cases, the translucence state would only flip on for things in close proximity to the flying units while the UI was in placement mode? Could be really easy to implement or a multi-day long odyssey depending on how you do collision detection and game loop entity state ( is entity X translucent, is cursor in prox to this entity, is cursor in placement mode ).
Meant to add this, “CW3 is goddamn gorgeous.” I’ve been re-playing CW2 a lot lately and the generational leap in game mechanics and aesthetics is really impressive, unity seems to have been really good to you.
There needs to be more gradients of blue for the creeper. It seems to max out too quickly. Have you considered adding some darker shades of blue at much higher concentrations?
Also, as said elsewhere in the comments, spores seem very weak and super easy to counter. Maybe make it that if a spore makes a direct hit on a building it would result in instant death of the building. As it is now it does a little damage if the creeper it releases isn’t stopped right away (which is very easy to do via cannons and beams).
I know, wrong video/post, but here goes:
When you launched the freeze rays in your most recent video, there was nothing to indicate that one was launched while you paused other than the inventory dropping by one. Will you please, if at all possible, make this idiot proof and add a reticule that appears on the ground (in the same color as the support) from the instant it’s launched to the frame it finishes deploying and taking effect? Possibly a(n optional) confirm target button?
How isn’t this out yet? Did it get released when I wasn’t paying attention?
I know Virgil said he was working on some low-visibility stuff, but it looks so done!
There’s a half serious joke in software engineering “The last 20% of a project will take 80% of the time to complete”, CW1 and CW2 were very solid games and I think Virgil’s taking his past work ethics along for CW3.
Really, you can replace 20% and 80% with X% and (100-X)%. That lets you have realistic statements, like “the last 50% of a project takes 50% of the time” or go with an absolutely ridiculous hyperbole like “the last .0001% of the project takes 99.9999% of the time.” So there you go. I took an amusing joke and utterly ruined by turning it into a mathematical formula. Comedy can suck it. 😀
I chuckled much harder than I should have at this. However, the statement is realistic. The last portions of a game take much longer than the majority.
Got new sound effects?
I have noted that the air power is a little over powered so I propose that, if it’s not too much programming, that the ships get some health, like say 10 for fighters, and 15 or 20 for bombers, if you also wish you could change the health of the main base to the health of the fighter/bomber, like keep them connected if you would. To shoot them down, a tower would work, or… put the Spore towers to attack them, like collision damage. I love the game, I wish you, Virgil, success in trying to top this if you aren’t ending the series. 🙂
i agree that airpower is OP but you have to think if a spacific tower is going to be the anti air then its no better than an area denial drone and that it will be OP to counter the OP airpower thus through the ballance off tremendusly PLUS there are AIR EXCLUSION TOWERS and smart map makers and make these area extremly large and unaccessable deniying airpower for a level so if you thinkabout it there is already something implemented but i agree they could use a tweek of somekind….like they dont hold supplies so no instant take off like the drones from CW1 they have to return to gain supplies
**I forgot to put in that criticism would be nice** DaMataEX, thank-you for a reply, and I didn’t think that it would throw off the balance, though thank-you for bringing it to light. Do you mean spacific or specific? And…. I got nothing else. 😛
Probably means specific, since spacific is not a word. I hope that was an honest question and not you trying to be a jerk.
Just had time to get on today. I was asking an honest question. Sorry if it came out like that.
If the map maker wants to deny air-power, he or she could simply not allow that tech for that map. Seems easier than setting up AETs. However if he wants to make air-power accessible at a later stage in the map, I’m not sure if it would be easier to set up an AET to be destroyed or place air-power building tech on the map itself.
It would be neat if AETs could cast their exclusion fields over different areas.
If you’ve got the strength to launch a ground assault on an AET, you’ve probably got the ground force to take out whatever it was defending too.
I imagine with CRPL towers you could probably pull something like this off. It just makes for better gameplay I’d think to have the AET in one area, so you have to go knock it out so you may launch an attack on another area. Like the deathstar, which couldn’t be destroyed until the facilities on Endor were disabled.
There is a difference between
1.Deny the Airpower from the map
and
2.Deny the Airpower from a part of the map(this means AET)
If the mapmaker wants to 2 , then he can make the AET in that spot
Also,in the video ‘Aether’ there where those little guys walking on that narrow 10-level terrain which destroyed the ground buildings,they could be also used to destroy air targets.
Perhaps there will be some way to do this using the coding. Create a unit that, when an airborn unit enters a certain radius, a certain amount of creeper appears at that unit’s base, thus destroying it unless you have weapons to guard it.
But I don’t know if there would be any way to track where the flying unit’s base it.
I think there has to be a way to track a flying unit’s base, since the units always return to their bases.
Actually it is called CRPL.
ok
No,that makes creeper too OP
But it’s possible
My thanks to Blaze for making the video. My thanks to Virgil for featuring it here. I appreciate being able to view more beta-play material. It was fun to watch.
question: How close is this game coming to your liking vergil? i think these nice people cant take the wait much longer. Great job so far really looking foward to this game being released
Hi Virgil,
I hope you enjoy developping this game.
How are you doing with the achievements ?
I saw there are few assets to help you with that..
Have a good week end.
Mat
Looking forward to the next update 🙂
I am too. I can’t help but wonder if there’s something else that Virgil plans to showcase that we haven’t seen yet or if we simply have to wait for release to learn anything else.
Afterthought: Please don’t interpret that as not wanting to see more map playthroughs.
Agreed. At this point, I would like to see short gameplays of the same ol same ol more often.
Yeah, with these two beta tester’s videos, we have become spoiled. So many videos in such a short period of time, and we know that release is inching closer.
Virgil, on April 30th you listed these as what you had remaining: “I have artifacts and achievements to add (in progress), a final Titan, finish up story missions, upload and browse support for custom maps, a healthy collection of tweaks and adjustments, and anything else I can manage to do quickly.”
Would you be so kind as to update us on the status of these, or give a new list of what still needs done?
or at the very least have a beta/alpha tester video
DO we have a release date yet?
Are we looking at weeks? months? Years?
please done let this me a half-life 3 type thing.
Hi SgtShap, A game can take quite a while to develop. Below is a quick quote from a game developer that probably has a lot of insight into the process (with source).
“Part of the problem is you don’t know either what you have to do, how long it will take, or what issues might arise. It’s a trifecta of uncertainty. For instance, I might introduce a bug in a core piece of code (because I got distracted, took a break, and posted on the forums ). That bug might not manifest till weeks later when other systems are in place. Once discovered, it could take 2 days to find, fix, and make corrective structural changes. That one little goof up could cause the schedule to slide by 2 days.
So, developers compensate by padding their estimates…. a lot. Like by a factor of 2 or 3. But then developers tend to go freestyle… with games that happens all of the time. They will add features they never intended to add in the first place. Why? Two reasons (with games anyway), it is interesting to the developer or it makes an awesome addition to the game. If it is so awesome why wasn’t it in the plan to start with? Well, the developer was too simple minded to know that to start with. In other words, writing software (especially games) is also an act of discovery. You sail off into uncharted waters with every project.
Imagine a sea explorer hundreds of years ago. He sets sail with his ships and crew and heads west into the unknown. He’s been a captain for many years and seen things no land dweller would ever believe. He will face storms, hurricanes, sea monsters, disease, mutiny… he doesn’t know for sure what he will find, what he will explore, how far he must travel, if he can even return. Before he departs, the royal court that funds his journey calls him in. A giant calendar in placed on the floor before him and the monarch says, “Tell us, what day will you return with the treasure”?”
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=11166.msg94804#msg94804
Well, not years. At one point Virgil said something to the effect of “definitely in 2013, probably in the first half of 2013, and maybe in the first quarter”.
Virgilw is obviously VERY busy on the game. Notice how he hasn’t commented on this page at all(or a very tiny amount). Also, he hasn’t made a video in forever! I have a feeling the game is around the corner 🙂
I hope the Cancel Button is going to be removed and replaced with a Mouse right click for cancelling, deselecting etc.
Cancel Button (HOTKEY: SPACE)
I know why u say that:because you could want to click Cancel but click Leave World
But Leave World gives you an AreYouSure message
🙂
Also, It’s better he isn’t active on forum/blog
He can finish the game and we dont need to wait
:X it must appear those days(or at least a new BlogUpdate)
so many things to do so little time to do them…i can only imagine how vergil feels at this moment he is just a lonely computer gamer sitting at his computer with the world at his back bathed in shadow with weapons at the ready…DEEP and SCARRY!!
1.There is no “little time”, only if we talk about people.
2.There are no “many things”, the game comes to a finish.
3.He USED to be a gamer, now he is a game programmer.
This week’s post must have cause the most long conversations in a long time. So many of these have at least 5 replies. I think people are getting ancy…
Please, I beg, don’t hammer virgil for any sort of release date. It will only cause grief. Virgil will place a release date when it is time.
COMMON VIRGIL WE WANT
BLOG UPDATES
VIDEOS(optional)
NEWS IN THE FIRST LINE!!!!!!