Having finally recovered from overeating on Thanksgiving, I set about over the last couple of weeks to add a few more features to the game and give them a whirl. What better way to test new features than with a new test map? Feeling particularly inspired, I put a little theme into this test map and kinda like how it turned out. Below you’ll catch me playing around in this Creeper Dungeon. I’m fairly aggressive in this mission…. as I learned to be in two previous off-camera attempts…
Looks cool!
Will there be an option to have the sprayer have a full tank? The Command Node had plenty of AC, but the sprayers were never over half-filled unless they were collecting AC off the ground.
If “Dispatch Excess” is turned off, they will fill up to a full tank (or they are supposed to, ignoring bugs). Of course this is mitigated by their fire rates and the ability to resupply.
I wanted to repost this here, just so it gets some attention – I don’t want to harass you in any way, though. Just not sure if you read it 🙂
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Actually, Virgil, I was thinking about letting your beta testers cover some of the video material for you, instead. Have you ever spend it a thought?
As I believe the beta testers have more time playing than you do, wouldn’t it be good for everyone if they showed some gameplay?
You could put up constraints, so they would go to show us new units in a very organic way on “regular” maps, giving us a great feel for the game, a good time watching and lastly, giving you more time to concentrate on development.
As there is no coverage from testers other than that you posted on the blog, I guess you are not fond of this idea. Probably to avoid showcasing gamebreaking bugs? Or you don’t want to showcase an unfinished product excessively, which is understandable.
So, instead of letting them post videos all day long (which sure would be awesome), you could like let every tester play a mission (which showcases new features, while playing a complete mission), let the testers vote on which video would suit well (or you do it? Would be time consuming, though), and post one or a couple of them for us to see.
It would be fantastic to see more gameplay, see a complete mission – and have you able to dedicate more time programming instead of having to feed us, your fans, with video material 🙂
Just a thought 🙂
Molay
He reads all comments in the process of approving the post to appear on the blog.
A lot of the time I showcase features in videos before the beta team even has a chance to evaluate the features. For instance, I’ve not yet published a beta build with all of the new features in them. But, once we get close to release I have no problem with beta members helping out on the videos.
Ah, well I guess this makes perfect sense then 🙂
Thanks for your reply (and for making an awesome game!) 🙂
I notice that their colletion field does not seem to be a straight line into the sprayer.
That’s just because the emitter was emitting the whole time, so it got sucked up slower, and the part on the left was probably slightly thicker.
Wasn’t talking about the emitter field – talking about the field around the spiral on the western approach. V’s reply explains what I’m talking about.
They do pull in in a slight spiral (like water going down a drain). In fact, the reason it spirals is for a similar reason…
Because the map’s rotation produces a Coriolis effect? Really?
From the looks of the clip, it seems that sprayers have a distance limit for collecting excess AC. Looks like the effect may need some tweaking unless it will stay as it is.
why should a range limit mean that the spiral is out of place?
Hi Virgil.
I was just wondering how you were feeling about releasing? I’m not looking for a date, just maybe your thoughts on the matter.
I recall the last estimate was something like before the new year, but game development’s always crazy with deadlines.
I appreciate any feedback.
Right, just finished watching the video.
Awesome feedback! Thanks for the update. I eagerly await your fine work, good sir.
lovely showcase, and take your time V, everything has it’s moment ^^
What an amazing video that was!
The sprayer sure looks like one of the more interesting units for me, as I love creeper manipulation. Anti-creeper was one of my favourite features in game 2 already! Seems very nice as it is.
I also noticed the new runners, which do have one of the simplest and yet cutest animations I think 😀 You did a great job on those. The game really starts to look quite impressive, I wonder what other changes you still have in stock!
I loved to see the sniper unit in action once more, on a more balanced map like this one. It clearly gives a better feeling for the unit, and in turn makes me feel better about that unit! It looked like a great addition to the army, and I’m really glad you added those snipers to the game after all.
Overall, I’m very impressed by the game and the progress you made. It was a great idea to talk about the release date in such an open manner, as this is a question often asked – rightly so – as we all want to get playing this game as soon as possible. But I’d much prefer you taking your time and delivering a quality product once again.
Still, I wouldn’t be mad if it came out for Christmas ^_^
Ugh, I can’t tell AC apart from creeper. Stupid color blindness.
I’ll see if I can’t add support for specifying C and AC color with a settings override.
A colorblind mode in general would not go amiss.
I just came here to say the exact same thing. While the game certainly looks awesome, and I’d play it no matter what… To do so would be quite a struggle in the current color palette. The C & AC are just not high enough contrast to look materially different to people like us.
I understand the color blindness thing so it would be great if there was some way to make some sort of aid as an option. As it stands, I love the colors for the C vs AC so don’t change that a bit. 🙂
One problem with the whole colorblindness thing: the colors could be anything in the custom maps of CW2 whether there was enough contrast to tell them apart or not, so there is an ongoing issue for colorblind players who play custom maps.
We can’t control custom maps, but KC can control what they do in their official campaign.
Besides, a “Colorblind mode” should take priority over customized C/AC colors.
Then sucks to be the colorblind people who cannot play some of the custom maps.
That’s what I’m saying. Colorblind mode should take priority over customized colors.
If you were a custom mapper, and you had the choice between saying “Colorblind people just can’t play my map” or “The colors will be a little wrong for colorblind people”, would you really prefer not to permit colorblind users to play your map?
If a colorblind mode is implemented, it should not be subject to the custom colors chosen for maps.
How about adding little sparkling dots to the AC, would look cool and work with customized creeper colors.
And those who have problems with regular creeper blending with terrain?
I really don’t think gimmicks are the way around colorblind users. Colorblind modes are not an uncommon thing for games in which color recognition is important.
A colorblind user is never going to see your custom colors properly anyway – what’s the problem with colorblind mode overwriting those changes with more easily recognizable hues?
The only problem I have with a colourblind mode taking priority in all cases is that some maps use confusing colors or are entirely rainbow. There was a campaign someone made for CW2 that had C and AC with the exact same colours so you couldn’t tell the two apart, so that could give somebody (colorblind or not) an unfair advantage if the mode is activated. This would be such a limited issue that it really wouldn’t make a difference.
I hope this does get implemented though, but users should be able to set the colours themselves instead of from a preset palette, because from my understanding, humans’ vision ranges from seeing all three primary colors of light (red, green, and blue) to as little as greyscale.
Using colors that intentionally blend strikes me as a horribly frustrating experience, and bad design . . . maybe that’s just me.
Red-green is the most common form, but a colorblind mode that is suitable to someone that is 100% colorblind should also be visually distinct to all forms of colorblindness.
The only way to make this work for every type of color blindness is to make a black and white (gray scale) option. I am currently in school to be and optometrist and can get some more info if any wants it. Personally I think games are about fun and there should be a mode that allows most color blind players to have as much fun as I do.
Not necessarily. You just need to make a color scheme with colors that are functionally discern-able when they ARE displayed in black-and-white.
Outside of that constraint, you can certainly still make a colorful game for those players who are only partially colorblind.
don’t you see them as two different colors, regardless if they are the right colors?
Nope. This site has an analysis of different types of color blindness, but of interest to you will be the sequence of five images. The left image is normal vision – the next two images are what those colors look like to people with two types of red/green color blindness. The fourth is those colors as seen by someone with blue/yellow colorblindness, and the last is a color from the perspective of a fully colorblind individuals.
And I would go and forget the URL.
http://www.colour-blindness.com/variations/
some one with red green color blindness would see red and green of the same brightness as the same color (this is an over simplification but gets the point across)
Yes. There are many ways to overcome this with color modes designed specifically for the color blind. I’d prefer you reply to earlier posts, rather than this one, though, to prevent dividing the information between two sub-threads of responses.
I agree with you completely on this, I over simplified my response because of the context of some of the previous comments, technically only brightness matters so you could have every color and as long as each had a different brightness each would show up as a different shade. here we use the HHR color test to see the difference between different types of color blindness of color deficiency and it works the same way only they intentionally make all the colors the same brightness so only someone with normal vision for the color being tested would see the difference.
sorry I ment this as a reply to you other comment above but since I posted from my iphone the formatting of the page was such that it looked like this was the “reply” for that comment
I think there should be a one-shot use titan called the hyper-guppy, or a packet teleporter: it would load up with packets like the guppy, then you can choose where to send them, and they would get there almost instantaneously.
WOW! So much to say about this. Ill post a better reply tommorow. Alot of new cool stuff, and I agree about the release date and adding more 100%. The sprayer looks really interesting, and looks more powerful than the maker from CW2. Is this the largest map size? You had relays to get your packets across the map quickly and your weapons were on very low ammo. Same for the strafers and weapons when you send them across. Will there be another way to do this more quickly?
Molay-I thought you might drag that into this weeks blog 😉 I dont really mind who does it, as long as the game gets released ASAP. I just dont want to get sick of looking at the game 24/7 before its even out. And if theres a video on it, im gonna watch it!
Lurkily-agreed. I also noticed that the sprayer kept on shooting at the digitalis. It cannot hurt the digitalis, its just wasting ammo! I didn’t see a disarm button on the sprayer so I hope it will be added shortly. If not, we will just have to move it backwards.
Whether the sprayer should shoot at Digitalis or not is still under evaluation. I may add target controls for it.
As for packet speeds, there will likely be a tech upgrade.
Is this the biggest map… nope. This map is 160×160. I’ll likely support at least 200×200 (if not higher) in the final game.
You’ve been saying you still have features to add.
I wonder about what direction these new features will go in. As far as I can tell, we pretty much got anything from CW2 in now, with some nice and meaty new stuff already.
Got any hints for what else you have planned, so we can start aimlessly guessing at what else you might have in store for us? 🙂
I have work to do on the organization of systems, story stuff, some field stuff….
Specific to the field stuff: Do you have fields in mind that help the creep leaving an isolated island, to “jump” to an adjacent island? Much like a bridge?
I vote for higher. 😀
I approve.
If it inhibits the growth of digi, shooting at digi may be materially useful at times.
runners no longer run, they crawl. how about the crawlers have some kind of hitbox, the whole thing has to be on the digitalis, could add some interesting stuff
This comment has been made as I watched the clip.
I noticed that in addition to no siphons, there is no storage pod build option either, and there are no PB’s.
Liking the new look for the nests and runners. So digitalis starts at emitters after all…
AC EMITTERS???!!! Hallelujah!!!!!!!!
Good to see decayable stuff holding creeper back too. However. In CW1, it passed through corners, but it does not here.
Instead of relays, why not use Guppies to get to that AC pool?
Instead of just bars to show construction progress, how about either just numbers of packets given and remaining, or both the bar and numbers?
Interesting runner patterns. But now they look like walkers. No complaints though.
Interesting that the collected AC in the pool turns into ore through the sprayer and back to AC at the CN.
If I knew no better, I would say the AC is travelling on the digitalis itself.
I would like to know if nullifiers have the power to destroy AC emitters like they do in the CW2 custom maps.
I think it may be possible that snipers could use targeting priorities.
Can the sprayers dispatch AC when there is no creeper nearby?
Definitely need some weapon movement speed upgrades as usual.
Maybe instead of “sprayer”, it would be more appropriate to call it the “AC catapult” because it shoots blobs instead of fine spray I would expect from sprayers in general.
Those PCs on the lower left look like they need to benefit from some more packet speed upgrades aside of relays after all.
I noticed that the digitalis has arrows on it.
And the nests look like labyrinth exteriors with all the lines and the square shapes.
It almost looks like the lower left strafer left with a partial payload at one point.
How do you control formation move that I noticed some weapons move in?
Finally, why is it won even if there is still some creeper left? (look at the top right)
I know this is a lot, but I had to try not to miss anything.
p.s. If any of my question were already answered, I had no idea because they were not on the page as I wrote that comment. I spent a lot of time making it up.
beyond that…
(final addition this time)
best CW3 video EVERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!! (imagine that last word in a single-tone musical sound)
I usually don’t take the time to answer more than around three questions in any one post… but here goes.
-Correct, Creeper does not move through corners in this game.
-Relays are faster than guppies, and cheaper, in this case
-I may yet tweak the construction bars.
-AC does conduct down digitalis…
-I’ve not decided if Nullifiers will destroy friendly emitters or not in the final release.
-Sprayers can’t currently dispatch AC when there is no enemy nearby. I may add a ‘release AC’ button, though.
-Formation movement is controlled by holding a key (g) while moving. Holding this key will cause the units to maintain formation. The default behavior is to pack units together tightly.
– The victory conditions are based on the elimination of structures, not creeper.
Nullifiers should not be able to tell the difference, it nullifies an emitter regardless of type. An emitter is an emitter.
Also, the Nullifiers have a pretty long range now, you don’t even have to get that close for them to work, were you thinking of shortening their range at all?
I was thinking of what would happen if you tried to nullify structures and there were AC emitters very tightly packed with them and they are so close it is impossible to get one structure without having the AC emitter in the nullifier’s range.
Relays are used instead of guppies because guppies are not efficient, I would assume. Hard-line connections should always be the gold-standard in connectivity, in my opinion.
As for AC on digitalis . . . look very closely at the digitalis’ edge. Both C and AC seem to have a gradient line at the digitalis’ edge, indicating that it’s deeper there, like the digi holds some of it in.
I believe the ‘arrows’ on digitalis are advancing gradient lines.
Missed V’s response here . . . oops.
so is the anti-creeper emitter a perment feature. and what happens if u put a sprayer right on top of it
Probably… and you can’t.
Do you have a more clearer concept of a release date yet?
Listen to the last few minutes of the video.
virgil, do you have kids? because i’m pretty sure i heard bickering/yelling/playing in the background somewhere in the middle of the video.
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE the new runner animation/graphic!
looking at the snipers in this video, it seems as if they could use a range or damage buff.
YAY WALLS!! always cool
Is it hard to learn how to program games, because i’m thinking of maybe trying it?
By the way: thanks for making all these cool things (games, videos, blogs, …)
You mean around 17:30 and 18:00. I don’t know what you are talking about 🙂
Is it hard to learn how to program games? Yes. It takes months and years to become a good programmer. It takes knowledge of at least high school math and physics, plus experience with various data structures to make a game like CW. To make, market, and sell a game you need 50 other skills to be successful. What does this mean? It means get to work…
Hmm, he had one sniper nearly holding them back and you feel they need to be stronger? I actually think they fire rather too fast (maybe increase the range or dmg a little to compensate, but should definitely be Nerfed a little)
to make the runners movement look more naturally you need to have both of the right legs moving forward while both the left legs move back and, vice versa.
Exactly. They frankly just look like walkers.
Search Youtube for videos of lizards walking…his animation is fine. 🙂
If he REALLY wanted to get picky he could make arms moving backwards a little smaller to simulate them being closer to the ground as the forward moving arms would be above the ground preparing for the next step.
I’m guessing that AC-emitters is going to be a part of the story now?
Yeah… I think so. It fits the lore I have in mind.
Suppose it includes rescues that involve freeing AC emitters from overwhelming normal emitters? I presume if that were the case nullifiers would be unable to destroy AC emitters. And are the new emitters going to stay in spontaneous-appearance mode, or can they be built or converted?
COOOOOOL!
BTW,the walls are the same from CW! 🙂
They are very similar. CW1 walls were 10×10. These walls are 8×8. These walls also don’t allow leakage through corners. And these walls decay just a bit faster…. but yeah., very similar otherwise.
Should these be buildables as well?
Then again, there would be less of a reason to terraform.
I want terps to cost slightly less, they seem a bit underpowered at the moment.
I had a nerdgasm when I saw them.
Epic game!!!!!!!!!!! Relece date is still good. Holy moly ac dispencers (sprayer and emmiter). Question. How di ac emmitters be created because bad emmiters were created by the loki and dispencers were created by people so I’m confused.
The Loki were smart… very smart. But emitters are just technology…
What exactly are the Loki? Is it the Goo, and they made the emitters for fast-travel, or do they exist in the dark reality that the nexus uses to comunicate with the rest of them.
Take a look at some of the story from cw1 – especially what the Old Man says.
From any level specifically?
I have to admit, I’m a bit disappointed in the updated time-frame. I’ve been wasting time playing BTD5 waiting for this to drop before the new year… Please just take my money and give me an unsatisfying version and than I’ll wait for a polishing update.
I’ll strive to make the wait worth it…
considering the graphics, unit database, enemy arsenal, and ongoing progress, it already is.
I’ve seen what you have in mind for the campaign. That alone makes the wait absolutely worth it.
No more thinking a campaign is short with all those missions spread around the universe. And then that nice feeling when you find the planet that brings the story forward, after many skirmishes have been fought to just arrive there! I’m sure it will be worth it.
I have a question concerning the campaign, though.
Will there be any bonuses tied to controlling planets? Or does it impact the game in any way? Also, once a planet is secured… Is there anything you can do with it? Or is it just secured and now sitting there idle?
Thanks again 🙂
I notice that you can effectively transit loose creeper across void by having an AC sprayer collect AC, send it back to the CN for refinement, (removing impurities from being on the open ground?) and re-firing it across void.
First impression…
At last! A Liquid Shield turret!
It is not precisely as I expected, but it is very refreshing to see that my suspicion of such an implement being introduced was vindicated. The suspicion appeared not long after viewing Virgil’s first Digitalis demonstration.
The Sprayer…has a nice design and appeal visually. The shape is particularly fetching. But…it’s function is a bit more of a blobbing or spitting than the effect which a true hose would emit. This is not a complaint. It is an observation about a turret which I am pleased and excited to see.
The Sprayer’s power and efficiency in directing Liquid Shield from one side of the map to the other was noticed and appreciated. I also noticed, twice, that Runners were wounded when the Digitalis was shot out from under them. This option, and potential strategy, is both possible and interesting due to the presence of the Sprayer tool.
As a side note, I am not certain what I think of the Runner entities possessing legs. Their varying size and speed, particularly for the larger variations, seems to remove the concept of running at high speed. Other kinds of verbs exist for naming, but neither am I the designer of the game.
It was quite interesting to be shown an organic Anti-Creeper Emitter and to ponder the narrative implications of such.
Because it was mentioned in the above commentary I will make a point of addressing a certain subject. I, also, would appreciate a turret with the ability to either make or release Liquid Shield in a general radial fashion. I would like to see this function added to the Sprayer if that is Virgil’s inclination.
But to throw back a bit to my last comment for just a moment I can now confidently say that the Sniper turret makes sense. A counter for the Runners and a counter for the Digitalis. It is a sensible progression of reason to see in a game. I appreciate it.
It…should not be necessary to make this comment. But it does seem that Virgil has gone to the trouble of addressing the general Internet audience about the time of release for the game. So in the spirit of good manners I will offer just a pinch of thought about the matter.
“It is not our business when Virgil chooses to release this game. As the programmer and maker of Creeper World III, it is Virgil’s prerogative to publish the game exactly when he sees the circumstances fitting to do so. And to be slightly frank, that is my preference. I am the kind of person who appreciates quality over speed, contrivance, and quantity. It is in every-one’s best interest for Virgil be satisfied with his efforts and expression of creativity. This is what will give all of the admirers of Creeper World III the best game possible.
“Let us be polite and wait patiently.”
Thank you again for the video.
Why are you calling the Anti-Creeper “Liquid Shield?”
Effectively, it can be used that way, to put pressure on creeper and hold it back, or maintain a safe area to stage attacks from.
Story Time suggested a unit that used AC instead of fields to hold back, or perhaps AC contained by a field. (Don’t clearly recall . . . ) That’s why he equated the sprayer with a shield.
Virgil,at the end of the video it says that the game will be released in 2013.As I saw in the video,the game is complete(almost).
What feature of the game remained undone,so you must do it,then release it in the next year?
Story mode, exploration mode, alternate victory conditions, structured field enemies/weapons… lots of good things…
I wonder what the super weapon will be….
I don’t think there should be any super-weapons.
The bertha has already been demonstrated. I hope there will be more along those lines.
I certainly do not hope for another dark beam, though.
The Bertha’s not a super-weapon, the Thor and Dark Beams are super-weapons; the Bertha is an uber-weapon.
I had assumed that you were suggesting we have no titan-class weapons – I would consider conversion bombs to be a superweapon, for instance, merely because they’re classed that way. Just a balanced superweapon.
I agree, though. I would like to see zero “I win” buttons.
Will there be shields, like the ones in CW2?
There already are, as demonstrated in earlier videos. Shields are radial, in this incarnation.
The bertha, a titan-class artillery, is also demo’d in earlier videos.
The Shields in CW3 are more like upgrades from the repulsers of CW2, than the Shields. I think flabbyflag means something like the walls.
Will Terps be ale to build walls? that I have not yet decided.
How would you be able to keep the terps without letting them be able to make walls?
Terps alter terrain.
Walls obviously do not behave in the same way terrain does. They’re infinitely tall, for one thing.
I think I misconstrued V’s comment. Having terps able to create the little green walls would be op in my opinion. Altering terrain to build functional walls was my thought in my comment.
Thus is the problem with using a term like ‘wall’ for a unit. A terp can make walls. Walls of dirt.
So make a wall of dirt.
Or rock, or Titanium. Whatever happens to be around.
That being said, the next thing you know, there will start being unobtanium.
And Bloontonium
If this is going to turn into a catalog of imaginary elements, I’m gonna turn this into a very long thread. 🙂
Ah . . . this post was not posted under the post I intended to reply to. (Just to keep it in context.)
O.o epiphany moment! instead of walls, they could be decayable terrain!
You should probably make the walls alot less energy then, considering that they arent going to last forever like the terrain.
I personally don’t think terraformers should make walls at all.
Hmm the only thing I really have to comment on, is I did like the first version of the runners you had, although I can see how the redesign makes the term ‘runners’ more appropriate. Zoomed out though they looked very organic. It wasn’t until you zoomed in that they looked like robots to me. I preferred their first look. just my own personal preference
Personally, the only thing I really dislike of their current look is that they have no discernible front or back.
I may add something to end side that give them a visual direction.
1. Will the player be able to click on the shield? It drove me absolutely INSANE how you couldn’t in CW1.
2. Have you ever considered any AC titans?
3.I think a good addition to the sniper would be a mode or upgrade to shoot single or grouped digitalis cells
Thanks for making a great game!
1: Do you mean the wall units?
2: I don’t think anyone around here hasn’t daydreamed about AC Titans.
3: With the way digi regrows, that strikes me as a colossal waste of ammo . . .
I really hope this doesn’t become too long or sound too negative (if I don’t comment on it, assume it’s good, I guess), since I’m writing while watching with minimal proofreading, so here goes:
1 – I noticed a tab labeled “cargo” on the Orbitals display. Is this where pre-built but not pre-placed units go?
2 – Will we be able to preset a CN on the map? For instance, Odin City could fly around, but it always started out in the exact same cell every time you play the mission. Will we be able to emulate this with CNs?
3 – More out of curiosity than anything, but are the wall sprites the same as the ones in the first game?
4 – I am not a fan of the Sprayers’ sprites. I know, they aren’t finalized, but it still irks me somewhat. If they are final, then I’ll get used to them.
5 – Please make all the menus look similar so my OCD doesn’t go crazy. I want one weapon removed or one added, and either one or three new structures so both tabs are in 2 x 5 displays. In addition, add two more Titans so it and the Orbitals tab are in a 1 x 3 display, OR add three more Titans and one new Orbital (or just move the cargo tab) and arrange them in 1 x 4 or 2 x 2 displays.
6 – I’m not sure if I like the Runners running. It goes well with the name, but I think something TRON-like might be better?
7 – Regarding number four, it may be because of their similarities to Snipers. I say make the tanks more pronounced and have an exaggerated base so they look similar to the CW1 Blasters
8 – I noticed a Pulse Cannon still firing after being stunned. Do they just cut connections now instead of draining and disabling?
9 – Looking at the Pulse Cannons’ ammo bars around 16 or 17 minutes in, it seems like there needs to be a speed upgrade, either a separate building or a research upgrade.
10 – I do not approve of your using only Mortars and occasionally Strafers (but only when it’s far from the action) on Powerzones.
11 – I vote for a dedicated vacuum mode, i.e. the Sprayer will not fire, will dump its tank into the network, and then collect everything around itself
12 – You could probably release the game now and we’d all be happy. Don’t rush it; take your time cherishing every second of the process. Or something sentimental like that.
In conclusion, this is still looking beautiful, and I cannot wait for the demo. Just take my money now and give me the game whenever.
ill answer what i can.
8: yes. you see it with other units as well
11: you see that- if collection is active and theres no creeper, it dumps. agree that it needs to be able to dump more than 1/2 a tank.
3: yes, but slightly smaller and weaker.
I agree wholeheartedly! Take my money now!
Wait….
How feasible of an idea would taking pre-orders be? Because I would seriously be down with that. Maybe a slightly reduced price, or an extra mission or two, or some kind of little extra goodie thrown in for those who did pre-order?
(Personally, I would pre-order ASAP regardless of goodies, as I’m sure many would, but that could be an idea!)
Anyways, anyone second the idea of pre-ordering?
I don’t think pre-ordering is a good idea and here’s why:
Pre-ordering only makes sense if there is a release date in sight.
As it stands, it’s not even certain wether CW§ will be released in December, February, or June. The way Virgil seems to go about releasing his game makes me believe that it will be a rather short notice affair.
All a pre-order scheme would achieve, is upping the pressure to get the game finished and quality could suffer. I think it’s time to post that Orwell wine ad again. 😉
I was sort of kidding about pre-ordering. Pre-orders only ever make sense for physical games because a store needs to stock a given number and there may not be enough. For online downloads, it could be feasible for something highly anticipated where the people that pre-ordered can download a few days earlier so some strain is taken off the server, but I don’t think CW3 is that anticipated.
The cargo button is there as a temptation for me to think of something interesting…
We could always introduce Creeper to the magic of orbital bombardment.
I think I speak for everyone when I say
“Yes”
I like this idea, but there needs to be a serious drawback to it, or something like the Drones from CW1, a beacon to call down strikes.
Maybe you’d have to send a CN into space with a ton of energy, and it’d be gone for a while, maybe not even until then end of the mission…
Require the construction of a titan unit to launch shipments of ammo packets into orbit. Large shipments. Use that to refresh the cooldown on the orbital weapons.
There should be energy dumps, Anti-creeper dumps, Unit dumps, explosive dumps, anything you can dump onto a battlefield should go into the cargo bay.
1. I noticed the strafers would NOT go unless they had full ammo. Will the players be able to send out the strafers partially full?
2. The new design for the nest is big…really big…will this be changed?
3. I noticed mortars could use an upgrade. I thought PZ mortars could strip 1 or 2 more layers of creeper at a time and you could balance this by taking some power away from something else (Preferably pulse cannons)
Towards the end, if you look closely, one of the strafers looks a tiny bit like it has partial ammo.
Strafers will launch when partial if not in auto-launch mode. I might also add a “launch now” button.
3: The size is slightly different. But the texture is either similar or the same.
8: Yes, that seems to be the case since Radiator.
9: I expect packet speed will probably make it as an upgrade – people are so used to it, it might be disappointing not to see it now.
There are ways guppies can be used, instead of transport, to provide local resupply. They request packets before they’re needed from a CN, and can redispatch to very nearby units. And if they run dry before being fully resupply, you can double the rate at which the CN dispatches units to guppy storage by doubling the number of guppies on the front.
10: Do you have a reason why? They are the best-ranged weapons, so they are the weapons that can continue to have effect as you advance.
11:That appears to happen automatically when there isn’t a target in range . . . . and I would not often want sprayers under threat not to defend themselves.
8 – I thought they stopped firing in Radiator. I’ll check that.
9 – I never actually thought about that. I guess that makes Guppies the replacements for Speed and Storage from the first game
10 – Do you know for a fact they’re the best-ranged (other than the Strafer)? I personally would like to see the capabilities of the other units put to use.
11 – Technically yes, but since the shield-type unit is a radial Repulsor (using energy), it would be nice to have a dedicated vacuum to convert the overflowed AC.
9: I doubt that would be so. I’d like to have local dispatches near the front lines, but guppies are finicky for the purpose.
10: They’re better-ranged units than the PC. The Sniper is not effective against creeper, and the sprayer doesn’t appear to target deepest, and has limited supply.
11: Got no problem with that . . . I wouldn’t use it though. If my vacuum came under threat, I’d want it t defend itself.
Okay, now I’m going to throw a bit of a random question in here:
Virgil, have you tought about giving a bit packet routing to the enemy?
wauw. i love it !!! thnx again for showing us 😛
“-Sprayers can’t currently dispatch AC when there is no enemy nearby. I may add a ‘release AC’ button, though.”
PLZ !!! make the ‘release AC button’ It’s the only thing missing.
also. i just wanted to say i love the shields. but since i don’t reply much i haven’t had the chance to say it.
keep up the good work!!
JH that allready exists in the second game (creeper world 2 academy level 7&10
I know that, I was talking about CW3, which is quite different from CW2 :b
i like the anticreeper packets design
also, will there be anything like c-bombs in this game?
How about something like either an orbital or titan that turns emitters into AC emitters? In that case though, something would have to be capable of destroying AC emitters.
i think that if anything like that happened, emitters would become something underpowered, because for the game to support emitters being converted or destroyed, there would have to be too many of them
That’s why I figured there had to be something on the enemy side capable of destroying AC emitters.
Don’t know…. I’m 50/50 on it.
I think you should, if only to avoid the plot hole of why they’re suddenly not used any more.
I think that with the number of things that are no longer used (wireless beacons, micro-rifts, dark-beams,) there will be ample explanation in the lore as to why entire fields of technology are no longer in use.
It would help make more sense plotwise, but I am unsure about unitwise fuctions because CB’s floated and did not release tiny white hover specs underneath it in CW2 like most of the other weapons did. If we had them in CW3, I wonder what it would be like for them to be “grounded”.
I think they will behave like every other hover unit behaves, just like they did in CW2. Not having hover ‘sparkles’ is a cosmetic effect, not a gameplay effect.
Be that as it may, the sparkles only occured when there was no terrain in the square under the unit in CW2.
No, I fully agree that it was a cosmetic effect designed to indicate hovering. I don’t think that the lack of that cosmetic should indicate that the conversion bombs were not hovering, though, or that they should move differently than hover units in CW3, when they behaved identically to them in CW2.
I am a follower of Creeper world. I wonder what this is. cw3 launch there soon? I read the comments and the launch was scheduled for March 2012. Now you can purchase the game, is available, there are demo?
Thank you!
Soy un seguidor de Creeper world. me gustaria saber que es esto. hay un lanzamiento de cw3 proximamente? he leido los comentarios y el lanzamiento estaba previsto para marzo de 2012. ya se puede adquirir el juego, esta disponible, hay demo?
Gracias!
CW1 and CW2 are available as demos and for purchase currently. CW3 is still under development. Just explore http://knucklecracker.com for more info.
The launch was originally tentatively scheduled for before the end of this year. Now, now the schedule is “Definitely by the end of next year, probably in the first half of next year, maybe in the first quarter of next year.
I don’t think March was ever stated as a release date.
It may not be a release date, but it sure feels like a harginger of it. After all, the next Starcraft game will be released in that month and pre-purchases for it are currently going around.
I’m not sure why Starcraft keeps coming up as an exemplar of what we should expect of CW3; I think the games are largely as different as two games can be, while remaining in the same genre.
Maybe you could add it so PZ terps do this when they get a wall to height 10. I though about this before,too. The terp technically does make walls and ditches, just using the terrain.
1. Yes- I should’ve worded that better
3. I thought that and that is why I said one or MULTIPLE cells at a time.
Virgilw- plz nerf the PZ Strafers back to 3 shots! It was so unique that way 🙂 It would shoot more, and have more ammo, but would run out of ammo more quickly. It was epic 🙂
3: Even multiple cells sounds like a waste. Even if you increased their AOE to match a mortar’s.
What you would get right now is PC’s pushing digi back to maximum PC range as you advanced, then snipers pouring sniper fire into digitalis outside PC range, which would regrow too fast for a sniper’s slow refire to hold at bay.
Snipers might support PC’s pushing digi further forward, but it would be much cheaper in the long run to spend those ammo packets through more PC’s on the front line.
Ah . . . I missed this but . . . nerf PZ strafers to 3 shots? Do you mean buff them? They fire 2 shots now. They did not run out of ammo more quickly with 3 shots, if I recall.
They fired three times per shot, with a double load of ammo. They offloaded six times as much damage, in total, at that point, according to my stopwatch.
teto, creeper world 3 todavia no esta acabado. Ahora mismo estan a la venta creeper world 1 y 2. El creeper world 3 saldra mas o menos al principio del 2013.
Virgil if u need spanish translating ask me. Lol
lol. IF you need help with spanish translations ask me.*
Muchas gracias!
Virgil could you please add more titans, looking at the titans list and only seeing one makes me want to ask.
I highly doubt he’ll leave us with only a single dose of awesome. 🙂
teto, creeper world 3 is not finished yet. Right now they are on sale creeper world 1 and 2. The Creeper World 3 will be more or less at the beginning of 2013.
your welcome ^.^
1. Do strafers even affect runners? It does not appear this way
2. At 16:29 you can clearly see the digitalis groqing with AC on it. I thought it altered its growth? If it was a bug, glad I can report it and be as helpful as a tester 🙂
1. Maybe they should have “target runners in path” buttons. And perhaps they should have homing target features as well. In that case, it would follow the runner while it was moving and change its respective attack zone.
2. It stops digitalis growth as far as we know.
1: Seems like strafers are not as effective against runners as they used to be – perhaps because of snipers being introduced.
2: From observations, it slows Digi growth, but doesn’t stop it.
I would like to see the ability to set the sprayer to target a specific spot on the terrain, without creeper. For example if you want to accumilate a hoard of anti-creeper in your base before the forcefield holding back the creeper breaks. Currently it just automaticly targets the creeper/digitalis.
Just a suggestion 🙂
Agreed.
Normally, you’d be able to use bombers for that. If those are unavailable, they will be intentionally so.
I would disable bombers to force players to put sprayers at risk. In using sprayers to fill a bomber’s role, you would be doing that.
Sprayers are inherently different than bombers – disabling bombers will not have the same effects as disabling continuous dumping of AC in general. (Assuming it were implemented.)
In addition, I wonder if AC should be capable of almost infinite density in one spot like it was in CW2 if you were to build a CW2 shield pen and pour in all the AC you could and have perhaps an infinite supply in a CW2 custom map with an AC emitter.
It seems like V is already doing this on this map without shields . . .
Will there be something like the repulsers?
Shields have been exhibited in earlier videos.
But the shields go in all directions and can push creeper in directions you might not want it to go.
They aren’t an exact replica, but then, I don’t think, since terrain is very uneven, having terrain levels unlike CW2. It is also very expensive to terraform, as opposed to removing terrain as in CW2.
Lining up a lot of linear field units would be difficult, and perhaps expensive if it requires terraforming. A row of radial shields requires fewer units, less packet spam, and is more plausible in rugged terrain.
If that gets added, I wonder what new strategies the terps will be facing!
That? Does this go back to sprayers having a continuous release function?
Hey, any plans to make a two-player test map? Fighting to hoard resources like ore to attack with, or to cut your enemies network, etc.
It would be fun to play. And what’s the difference between spore and blobs?
No real effective difference in this video – they behave similarly.
So, right now we have organic creeper emmiters and spore towers, mechanical digitalis, and semi bio runners. Here’s a new digital enemy that moves on digitalis. Coders. I’ve got three ideas for them. 1 make them build digitalis out of the pre set areas. 2 have them build a second path of the stuff ( another pre set map editor function) 3 lower terrain based on distance away from spawn ( ie: to make a slope you have to fight on) Thanks for reading!
You mean descending terrain levels? Are you talking about having these units terraform?
Not sure how I feel about decayable terrain. The only way the player would be able to understand how deep it goes would be to lay a hash of numbers over the map, or have them mouse-over the region cell-by-cell.
No, not decayable terrain. say, these units spawn near digitalis. after x cells away from their spawn, they would terraform all terrain after that they can reach by -1 levels. These effects stack, so they would build a slope. and they would have range and speed of small runners. They wouldn’t be a direct threat but would aid creeper and make blasters less effective.
Ah . . . my fault. The thought on decayable was kind of a tangent. The same applies though – there would have to be some way to display what levels the AI is trying to terraform to. CW has always been a game of perfect information. Only a very few things in both series seem to miss that mark, where information is hidden from the player.
I would rather not have the game turn into the kind of CW2 maps where you open them in the editor before attempting them ‘for real’.
Hmmmm. On the other hand, if the terraforming were procedural, not first set in the editor by the mapper, that might work out. But then, they’d have to cover the entire area with digi to reach the places they’d have to terraform.
Exactly. As is Digitalis doesn’t “go together” well. I mean they are more of a threat than normal, but not by much. These Coders will have the digitalis become a backbone of the creeper and greatly increase the creepers advance and slow the players.
I like this idea.
Not sure, myself. The maps are pretty big, now, and terraforming even small areas can take a while, as Roma Victor demonstrated. This unit would also be terraforming land in all directions, including land that isn’t immediately supportive of the creeper’s flow.
I grant you that it would assist creeper in posing a threat to the player, but I don’t know that it would be the threat that you anticipate – the backbone of the threat creeper poses.
So, coders. Are you talking about having all digi constructed by them? Or have a secondary ‘growth area’ of digi that digi does not grow into, but only heals damage, that the coders build into?
Honestly, the terraforming thing seems like something that would be better suited to an enemy all of its own.
Now that you mentioned it, both options sound good. I think you could combine the first and second so coders will go around placing digitalis on emitters and place it on the second digi grow areas! I think we might have hit gold here.
Using both changes the entire nature of digitalis by using a unit to construct it. It also limits the growth speed and threat of digitalis, as snipers can now inhibit digi’s growth effectively by attacking the units that build it.
I’d prefer to have digi grow normally, and have these units maybe build it out into a secondary growth area.
It’s hard to see how that would be threatening, though. Construction would be slower than normal growth, (which is dang fast,) and it would be easier to push back. The only use I can see for it is a way to build digitalis in an area in a way that is less threatening, not more.
With the rush to get this game out, I seriously doubt he will look into multiplayer for this game anytime soon.
The rush? Perhaps you should listen to his closing comments in this video.
Virgil could you make something like a mini thor? It could have like 20 times less power than the original and you could set a build limit.
What is Bertha then?
Bertha is a heavy long-range artillery. The Thor was a very heavy aircraft that sported rapid-fire blasters and anti-air missiles.
No the Thor was a I win button
You’re saying, then, that it was NOT a heafvy aircraft with rapid-fire blasters and anti-air missiles? 🙂
I see what you’re saying, but Shadow DID accept that incredible nerfs would be necessary when he made his post.
It’s looking like a ton of fun, I can’t wait!
I notice that your default instinct with power spots seems to be using them for mortars—probably 90% of the units you’ve put on power spots in all the posted videos have been mortars. I wonder, is that just a habit, or it is because mortars are just the best use of power spots? If the latter, it seems that providing other units with better/more interesting power-spot bonuses would make the decision more interesting. (I was hoping actually in this video to see the power-spot bonuses for sprayers—larger and more frequent blobs fired further?)
Was this video supposed to have sound?
Yes. There is sound with this video.
I completely forgot how many different units you had in this game already until someone mentioned the Terps again.
Do you feel you may have too many?
Spraking of Terps, I’m also concerned that Terps have almost no drawback. Perhaps require ore to make the walls? They’re fabricating land out of thin air!!!
First I would like to start off with something irrelevant: my internet is down, but I got onto google chrome directly from CW2- so thanks for adding that virgilw!
ha ha ha you guessed it 🙂 I don’t necessarily like the order of where my comments were posted either!
And the rush- he IS still trying to get the game out by the end of the year, but its not looking too likely from this standpoint. So yes, rush.
Virgilw- In CW2 when 2147M of C/AC were in one square at a time, they would turn into its opposite. Will there be a simular change in CW3?
The timeframe he stated in the video is definitely by the end of the [‘next’. edit by V] year, probably first-half of next year, maybe first-quarter of next year.
Definitely by the end of NEXT . . . whoops.
Annnd . . . I misread your comment. Teach me to skip sleeping . . . sorry.
He did say he’d like to get it done by the end of the year, but I think that’s more of a “It’s done when it’s done” think than that he’s rushing to finish.
yea I was thinking that when typing my resonse. He still is working to get the game out ASAP
What can we expect on the blog Saturday/Sunday? Another vid? Along that, I would like to see a photo montage 😀
I just noticed that when moving weapons, the snipers shadow seem to look a lot like the pulse cannons shadow.
Do you think it might be a good idea to change that so the player don’t get confused when moving a large group of weapons from one place to another?
idk if this has been asked before. what is the point of continuing worlds after all the creeper/emitters are gone. and i mean like the benifts of it
benefits not benifts
Some people are just OCD, and like finishing their base, cleaning up the remaining creeper, or completing a terraforming project . . .
I suspect this move was another concession to the fact that much of CW’s following appears to have at least mild OCD. 🙂
Virgil i just thought of something interesting. would it be possible for the next game to adjust how long it takes to build the emitters or how much ammo they use?. (As in something for a map modifier add on) just a random thought though it would probably take more time to program but it could make some levels more challenging to finish or make some harder. also you could make adjustments on how much other units cost which would also be kind of interesting.
You’re talking about actually adding a new mechanic, that an emitter takes a while to open up? Or am I misunderstanding?
yes that is what i mean sorry typo in part of it about ammo just kind of went off on something else there. But if you think about it with CW2 the emitters only opened up when people came to certain planets. So it would be interesting to be able to plant a trigger so like if you destroy an emitter in one area another one starts in a different area or if one of your units gets past a line then an emitter turns itself on. Also another thing is i kind of ment the nullifiers for the ammo bit so that it takes long for it to destroy the emitter or change the cost to build a unit. Sorry for the confusing typos
Still don’t know what you mean by emitters and ammo. Emitters in the past two games emit to their maximum height/compression every time they emit – there’s no ammo, and you can’t “Use them up” so that they emit less. In fact, the more creeper you burn away over an emitter, the more it actually emits.
i had pointed out that i had made a typo there. and i corrected myself and said that i ment the ammo thing for the nullifiers and changing the amount of ammo that has to go into them for them to nullify the emitter.
From what I understand, shadow dragon is suggesting 2 things.
1. Triggers. When the player does a certain thing, then that causes something else to happen. For instance when the player completes a bertha, an emitter turns on.
2. Editing basic stats. Right now the collector costs 5 packets to build. If a mapmaker wanted to make a map more challenging, that could become 8. 4 would make an easier map.
I think that is what was suggested. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
That is exactly what i was trying to say. also i was saying that you could change the packet cost for other units also.
Discussed this via PM – he meant that nullifiers might take variable amounts of ammo to nullify a particular emitter.(Rather than adjusting an emitters HP.) I wasn’t sharp enough to parse the meaning from his post.
And . . . intereding that the two posts above mine didn’t appear until I posted my own. >.<
It’s stupid. Since Creeper can’t get passed ground, why don’t they just make Shields out of Ground?
I don’t know what you mean by passing around creeper, but I typically make shields out of shields.
Ah, I misread that as ‘passed around.
Because terraformers are energy-intensive, and sprayers are AC-intensive. If you don’t have energy, sprayers may be a good defensive alternative.
don’t you need energy to make sprayers?
Sure. It’s all situational.
If you have the energy to burn, shields. If you need to protect a wider area, or would prefer to pay now, instead of an ongoing energy cost, terraform. If you would prefer to base your protection on AC, which leaves your energy supply free to focus on your offense, you could pay the cost of a sprayer, which is chump-change in comparison to either of your other options.
indeed 🙂
anyone know when the next post is going to be published?
not trying to be harsh by saying that but i really want to see the next post 😀
i bet a lot of you guys too 🙂
What I mean is this. Dr. Abraxis spent a lot of time inventing blocks of shields that just decay. But dirt works better. The ground holds creeper and don’t decay or let it go passed.
Even at high pressure.
So why don’t Dr. Abraxis just make blocks out of dirt? It’s stupid to use shields when you got lots of dirt.
CW2 plays in a 2dimensional hole. A dirt block completely blocks a passage also preventing your things from going through.
CW3 is on 3D terrain so your units can move the dirt walls, but so can the creeper if given enough time.
Iemand makes a good point. CW3 is a surface game, remember. Creeper will flow over the top of any barrier you terraform, given time.
I’m not sure if you’re referring to the walls in this post, but I’m going to assume that the wall, like CW1’s walls, were not, and cannot be, constructed by the player. They’re not necessarily human (or post-human) technology.
How should I now if there human or post-human technology? All I’m starting to see is Dr. Abraxis isn’t really the one inventing these technologies, I’m starting to think it’s all just Virgil making up new ideas for his game.
I re-read your post, and I think you are probably asking why we used a ‘shield’ unit in CW2 instead of filling an area with dirt . . . not asking about any CW3 concept, as I thought might be the case.
They didn’t have Terraformers at the time of CW2. For some reason or other, they simply didn’t have the means. Probably a technology that was forbidden to them by the god of game balance.
Thanks. Yeah i’m not sure about all these gods that are in the game But I think Admiral Abraxis is really just Mr. Wall and Dr. Abraxis is his daughter April.
I don’t think wall units can ever get overflow.
Terrain can only get so high, but I think the wall unit will ever let any creeper by until it dies.
I could be wrong, though.
Er… *won’t ever
Think of it this way:
The maps aren’t quite drawn to scale in CW1. Its better in 2, but not quite there either. When you send out a packet at a block, it just destroys it, not moves it. The people couldn’t go out there because considering the size of the place, it would take FOREVER to move the block. Think of the people in CW2 being as big as 1 terrain cell in CW1 and they are trying to move a CW2 wall. This is why shields would be easier. They are cheaper and quicker to place. Besides, considering the map isn’t drawn to scale, the creeper would quickly flood the map faster than you could move the necessary amount of dirt to protect yourself. Finally, there are few commanders in the CW series, with no civilians in CW2. The commanders in CW1 aren’t going to risk sending there civilians to move around the terrain in CW1. And the commanders cant go out because they half to…wait for it…command!
Now note this is realistically speaking, the creeper world series is a game, it wont happen in a game…
Civilians? Moving dirt around? Why not just use the terraformers demonstrated in Roma Victor?
I don’t know why you say it would take forever to move a block. There’d be just as cheap and quick as a regular shielf. They would get enough time to put them in. Your probably thiniking why I’m saying this??
It’s the sprayers here in the video are taking ore and sending it back to the ship, then the ship sends the ore out wherever to turn into AC and spray globs around.
Well, why not just do the same but with ground? The dirt could just pile up and plus it wouldn’t cost energy.
It would just be a barrier and eventually the creeper could go over the top but it would be like a dam, only letting a little creeper in at a time you could build a lot of them with dirt just as quickly as shooting globs of AC. Only if Dr. Abraxis thought of it he would just send back some ground to the ship and send that around instead of the ore.
That’s why I’m saying.
It might be confusing to newcomers to jump right into a game without tutorials (as players prefer to do) and put up their first terraformer, tag a big wall to be build, and have nothing happen.
What do you write CW3 in, C++, Java, Python?
I think he said before it was Unity and C#?
I believe that’s correct.
Try adding multiplayer support? I’m sure everyone will love this.
Blowing up collectors with blasters doesn’t sound like a lot of fun to me, and playing as an emitter sounds downright boring . . . any suggestions?
This has already been discussed, vs. multipler just doesn’t work without majorly changing the game, co-op multiplayer doesn’t directly add anything that a single player armed with pause mode couldn’t do.
On the other hand I personally think co-op multiplayer could be very fun even if it is strictly less efficient than playing on your own.
Yeah! It’s what I was saying before. #165
It’s doesn’t even have to be multiplayer on a server, just 2 player on each side of the keyboard and you go after each other from opposite sides of the board to the ore in the center so you could make some AC and send it after to wipe out your opponents network and win the game that way.
I don’t think this is ever going to happen for the simple reason that it is not Creeper World.
Maybe it’s from the old wars between Nexus and Platius.
There’s also that talk about the Academy that they was gonna start at the end of CW2. It could be trainer from there.
So it could be Creepr World because it could fit in the story somewhere.
All I want to see if Virgil could do it in a test map.
No, he can’t.
I know barely anything about programming, but I can tell you that making vs. multiplayer would require more programming than any of the individual features shown sofar and that would be without taking into account any of the changes needed to make it playable.
The only reason I think co-op ‘might’ be possible is because the connection would be the only thing to program to make it workable in it’s simplest for.
Early on, V mentioned the possibility of “Asynchronous Coop”. That is, two players working towards a common goal, without actually playing the same map at the same time.
One example of this might be the RTS games where players play in phases – each phase, they handle different aspects in different theaters – either different battles to get different resources, or perhaps one handles economic development, and the other handles battle. Later, they exchange data to figure out what resources they each have to start the next phase with, based on their partner’s performance.
How could that make so much more programming when everything is already there?
The techs made by Odin City target Creeper and avoid anti-creeper. Virgil could just make an duplicate “Odin city” on the same field and its techs target Anti-creeper instead of Creeper.
That’s all he’d need for a two player test map.
It’s not a matter of putting the pieces in place. Getting the game to respect and synchronize two player’s experiences when they’re not on the same computer and data between them may be time lagged is a huge amount of work.
Attacking creeper is one thing. Attacking other player units is a whole ‘nother basket of onions. Let alone not letting networks interact, and balancing damage rates for a multiplayer experience . . .
He’s demonstrated the type of experience he intends to provide in CW1, CW2, and in his previews of CW3. You’re suggesting a whole lot of work for a map that provides an experience so different, that it might as well be a different game.
They are on the same computer for the test map. There’s no lag, just lock the weapons and use just a couple.
The game is build in layers so your just putting a whole nother network on a different layer and they don’t interact that way. Like if you go to dimensions and kill that monster thing and it comes back as a negative ghost like thing, but doesn’t kill you. It’s still there, just in a different layer.
So your just putting the anti-player on a different layer.
I still don’t think it’s a different game, it’s just a test map to see how people would like multiplayer. He’d just use his mouse for bolth payers when he talks about is.
I’m not sure what the use is in a multiplayer test map if you aren’t looking at the challenge of implementing multiplayer.
The entire game is built in layers? Really?
I’m not sure what “the monster thing from dimensions that comes back as a negative ghost thing but doesn’t kill you” refers to.
What I’m trying to say is that multiplayer is a totally different experience than any CW game has provided. Instead of being able to carefully position yourself to take advantage of an enemy’s weakness, you would have to move frantically to keep up with a human opponent’s preparations. You would be forced to develop rapidly economically, or be destroyed. Instead of tactical positioning being more important than replacing losses, you would be forced (by opponent action) to constantly replace losses.
In CW, you strive to reach a balance, push against the pressure exerted by the creeper, and finally reach the emitter to nullify it. In this redheaded stepchild of a multiplayer version, you would be forced to resist sudden and unpredictable action by the enemy player, because that is the way to overcome massed defensive units – fast, overwhelming strikes.
Player strategy would change. Player goals would change. What constitutes tactical placement would change, because you’d need different advantages over a pulse cannon than you do over goop. Player techniques for overcoming opposition would change, and not only would you have to use those techniques, but you would have to defend against them.
I’m not saying that doesn’t sound like an exciting game, but does it really sound like the same CW you’ve played all along? The units are the same, but the gameplay would be more like a mainstream RTS than like the CW we know and love. Overwhelming assaults, constant losses, precision economic management, constant replenishment of destroyed units – this is stuff I expect from Command and Conquer, not Creeper World.
I think what everyone who wants a multiplayer implemented is that how do you balance straight offensive of placing blasters right next to the command node and slow defensive of building hundreds of blasters next to every relay.
Any pvp multiplayer would have to balance the two and the only real way is to have the command node make creeper and you only can build on your own creeper, similar to how zerg works on starcraft.
But that comes with its own huge constraints in that the creeper comes out too slow, it will take too long to end a fight. If it comes out too fast then blasters become pointless. In any case, whoever has the high ground will win almost by default.
Overall multiplayer is a nice idea but doesn’t really fit the game like you said. It changes the fight all together. In CW4 it would be nice to fight against an enemy that has some human technology outside of the easily managed runners.
What I meant by ‘dimensions” is the one on CW2 called Story Mission 8. There’s like a pac-man thing and if you hit at it, it goes to disappear. Only it’s still there. Another one is in Story Mission 4, Spelunkering. The drops keep coming, even when there’s no more creeper falling, if you just let it all fall by digging out a ditch. On the bottom. It can’t get you that way, but all of a sudden the drops start on the ground like they were up in the air from the cliffs.
Multiplayer is about fighting for the limited resources so your gameplay is different each time. Your opponent can’t destroy you, only your creeper, unless it’s like I said before, were players get control over targeting for the auto-spore attack, but I don’t know if this is in CW3 or just stopped at CW2.
I don’t think the particular limitations of the field system are any indication at all of how easy or hard it would be to split every last player-controlled aspect into two separate command and control systems to support local MP.
Seems like nothing I’m posting is being listed as responses to the posts I’m responding to.
By far, the longest thread of one-topic replies I have ever seen.
I certainly hope that above comment does not appear where it is this moment. It is a reply under that super long stream of replies above and not a new comment topic.
and again, it appears as a new comment instead of a reply like I meant for it to be. When I click “post another comment”, I bet it will do it again.
never mind my notings of the comment placement. I just noticed Virgil’s comment on nesting levels a few seconds after I made those posts.
This.
But IT IS CREEPER WORLD>
Your units are doing the exact same thing, only no different. Your opponent is trying to wipe out your anti-creeper before you wipe out his creeper.
So it’s no different at all. It’s still CW. Just 2 players racing to the rift.
The units are only cosmetic. What makes a ‘game’ is the experience that results.
And what you’re suggesting would result in an extremely different experience, that only just happens to use the same units.
As far as I can see it is very much a similar experience as single player Creeper World. You just limited of resources or that depends on the resoures the opponent gets.
You still have single player worlds, and then just this one arena, maybe it’s part of the Academy that they said at the end of CW2. It would let you learn how to use different techs to their best abilty to help you in the rest of the single-player game.
It seems, the “Pic of the Week” has turned into the “Vid of the Fortnight”.
Trouble with the “weekly” part of this blog I presume? If there needs to be a change of rate, perhaps an announcment of it would be beneficial for us as well as yourself, at least when you consider how much flak I anticipate you may get from over-zealous CW fans for the increasing gaps in between posts despite the fact that they are currently meant to be weekly.
Check twitter https://twitter.com/knucracker
I’ve been busy working on a top secret addition to the game that will either terrify or elate the custom map community.
I’m not even in the custom map community, and I’m already elatedly terrified.
About the walls and terrain- I meant realisticly,using what I know from info. I really doubt anyone would add this into the game(and I was reffering to CW1/2 not CW3 when replying)
About multiplayer- Not saying to add it in this game, but maybe CW4 if at all possible. I think it might alter the game alittle. If you have played the Dead space series or watch the walking dead, the main enemies arnt so deadly any more. Humans could MUCH easily kill in the walking dead, and if you are watching dead space, it just looks kind of silly on a snowy map with others shooting at you. The necromorphs(main enemies) arnt so creepy this time around compared to dead space 1 when there was no multi player or any type of benificial human help. Anyways, my point is it might change the game in a negative way.
Considering that the gameplay CW is designed for just isn’t possible in competitive, vs-mode multiplayer, I’d say it’s pretty much without doubt that gameplay would suffer. Any technology suffers when it’s applied to a role it isn’t designed for – that’s true of everything from rocking chairs to RTS’s.
In creeper world 1 there were 2 different colored walls in a multiplayer one person could have one colored wall and the other person could have the other then each player could have one or two emitters of one type that they must defend from the other player you could give each player a set amount of time to place their defenses before the battle starts. Then each player would be able to build units and weapons just marked by team colors for example, white/gray and blue. they could use the units to fight off the creeper coming from the other player’s emitter or they could be set to attack the other player’s units then the player who success fully destroys the other player’s emitter(s) would win the players could also have nests that construction packets would come from also the packets would mainly come from the emitter of that specified player. this could be done over the internet do to the fact that there would be faults with having two people on one keyboard (sorry Yee) the multi-player menu would be able to be accessed through the main menu there could be a list of people who are on the multiplayer server who are waiting for an opponent. Please tell me if this does not all sound planned out because i just came up with it off the top of my head.
sorry about run on sentences
I forgot to mention the emitter types could be anti-creeper or creeper.
Units attacking units would ba a radical shift in what it means to play CW – the dynamics of the game would shift radically. Rather than being a game that focuses on fighting your progress without massive unit loss and constant replenishment of units, it would suddenly become heavily dependent on replacing your unavoidably heavy losses constantly.
The game your describing uses the resources and units of CW, but it is not CW.
I didn’t say it was supposed to be just like the simple campaign mode. This is supposed to be something for hard core players that want something new and interesting. Also there are many people asking for multiplayer and the things that i listed would be an intense yet fun new way to view Creeper world.
BUt it doesn’t have to be units destroying units. That’s where your messing up your whole anti-multiplayer argument.
The other players have different colored creepers, and your racing them to be the first player to link the towers and rift away.
Ah, you’re suggesting going back to the totems of CW1 – as far as I know, CW3 has no totems.
That could be done . . . . but you can do it now, actually. You’re basically describing a time trial. You don’t have to be on the map at the same time to play multiplayer that way.
The leaderboards already provide that competition for CW1 and CW2, in fact.
Of course, if the creep/anticreep damages the player structures, you would want to disable bombers. Or use beams to destroy them, but them you go back to unit destruction. Then we have sprayers . . .
You could disable all AC weapons outside of that emitter, too. But either way, the best way to win would be to channel your creeper offensively.
Hhhhmmm….. He did bring up a good point though: Maybe only have your anti creeper damage enemies, and the other players creeper can only hurt your units. This way, creeper would seem more deadly, as one person would half to lose by creeper. Anti creeper would also be more powerful, for it would be the only way to hurt the other player. Pulse cannons and other weapons could be for defensive.
Why does anti-creeper has to be more powerful in multiplayer? It’s just one player’s creeper.
Player1 has creeper Player2 has anti-creeper, and their weapons are attacking each other’s creeper.
p1 has blue creeper p2 has red creeper or they can choose their own color. The creeper coming that player’s emitter would look white like the anti-creeper emitters because their emitter would be letting out it’s version of anti-creeper. Also the weapons attacking would have that team’s colors.
The other player’s emitter would look blue.
I’ll grant that it’s certainly a better idea than being able to attack units. Still, though, I don’t see the point. If you cannot directly attack or interfere with the other player, it’s a time trial. We have leaderboards for that.
If you can hinder or attack them directly, (Such as by using shields to force your AC into their base,) then a lot changes.
yes you could directly attack them, because your creeper would hurt them. They would have something like a command center sending out packets, then they would have an emitter that is their color and would send out their own anti-creeper to attack the enemy. If one player had a shield up the other player could send in a blaster to try to take out the shield so their creeper could try to attack the other player’s command center the point is to destroy the other person’s command center and emitter.
The resources are shared between player1 and player2 so they get limited, that’s what makes multiplayer more fun and exiting than just a time trial.
also having the totems would be a completely useless add on in the multiplayer,
ShadowDragon – Your version is totally complicated from my idea of multiplayer.
You don’t need to have blasters to attack other players shields, or units. That’s what’s just too complicated. Units only attack the other creeper. It’s already build into the game.
Why would it be useless to have totems in multiplayer? That’s the whole point – a race to the rift.
Lurkily and I both think that a time trial in multi-player would not do well and trying to beat the other player to the totems is a time trial made more difficult than it needs to be. Also multi-player always involves defeating/ eliminating the opponent other wise it is a time trial. Mario kart multiplayer there is a timer, racing games multiplayer have a timer so it is a time-trial, age of empires multiplayer facing off against another player however does not have a timer you are eliminating the opponent which is what you do in creeper world you have to eliminate the danger or the enemy. Nobody wants another time trial there are already enough of those.
Like I said. It’s not just a time trial. That’s what you are Lurkily are not understanding.
Your fighting for a limted number of upgrade techs, even they are weapon, energy, or ore. So it makes it different and competitive every time you play since different strategies depend on what techs you were able to grab before the other player.
Maybe in one game your able to find ore and the sprayer tech before the opponet, but in another you tried to grab the sprayer tech, but while you were going after it, the other player got to the ore first and blocked your ability to use them.
So it’s not just a time trial, especially if your getting to pick the targets for your creeper’s spore attack.
also if you have the totems then what use would the nullifiers be? the nullifiers are one of the most important parts of the game. The satisfaction of blowing up the enemy emitter and seeing the big explosion made so much better with the new graphics of CW3. Your version of multiplayer is like running away from the other person. “Who can get away from the enemy faster” those knids of games leave people with an empty feeling. Being able to know you destroyed the other person and they won’t come back and destroy you somewhere else that leaves people with a better feeling.
My version is nothing like running away from the other person. Where you thinking of someone else? And why would you not be able to use nullifiers. That makes no sense.
I’m sorry but are you paying attention to what he wrote? He was talking to a race to the finish/ capture the flag style multiplayer game. And about the “Also multiplayer involves defeating/eliminating the opponent” there is now way to play a game like this without it being a time trial style game. The entire CW series is just knowing where to move/build things and when to do them. Hence you get a time trial. Now if you want to make attacking them a possibility what about giving actuall ideas instead of saying that it is boring because plenty of games have indirect combat and I think that would be great for this game.
— For my ideas on that –
Positioning shields to divert creeper to your enemy or other things such as escape pods (if the player on the other side loses their pods they lose automatically) or causing chain reactions such as terraforming some land near an emmitter forcing the creeper to them, or, if you want to get creative, Virgil could add something that weapons can destroy that release packets of anti creeper or creeper. (you could position a bertha on a side route and if you powered yours first you could release a bunch of creeper on their side or some anti creeper on your side by destroying their “creeper pod”)
As a small side note- Shadow if you want a boom how about the enemy gets bombarded by hundreds of spores as you rift out? 🙂
Ok I see good and bad in multiplayer:
We could have many modes, one would be getting to totems, the other could be destroying the other player. Maybe a survival mode? The two players start in seperate corners, and must live longer than the other player by continuous, gradually more dense creeper. I was thinking of fun modes 🙂 Only shields as weapons! Just imagine that battle ;D
Anyways, it would be difficult to add into the game, would bring in more players, and give old fans something new(although im sure there are a TON of new things in this game.)
The new update is coming soooon <3
I don’t think this has been suggested. For a multiplayer vs mode what if each player produced a different colour of creeper that would react with each other like creeper and anti creeper and your own units react to your creeper as if it is anti creeper but to everyone else’s creeper as if it is normal creeper and your units can’t hurt other player’s units, only their creeper. That way the only way to kill other players is to cover them in your creeper and your units would just be used to hold back their creeper. That might make it play a bit more like singleplayer.
Actually ignore me, it has been suggested already.
It’s a very good idea that needs improvment.
It’s improved by putting limits so players has to compete for resources like upgrade techs and ore.
Then it’s no longer like single player or time trial, because the strategy and outcome changes each time you play it — even if its the same opponent!
Not sure if this has been suggested, but it could be cool if the field was covered in “fog” and things were only visible at a certain radius around units
When a reply makes the thread go beyond 9 (or maybe 10) levels deep, the blog has to split the message out and show it at the bottom. Else, the replies become too narrow. I’ve got the blog set on the maximum nesting level currently, so I can’t increase it any further.
Hum. That’s interesting because my posts indicating why mine were misplaced, were replies to my own unnested posts. Those should have nested properly, even if the first ones didn’t.
But this one DID nest properly – by guess is that it’s maybe only an issue when replying to a post that was split due to over-nesting.
I do not mean to look like a spammer (Anything I ever posted that looks like spam is actually a bunch of add-ons that I just then realized I had to ask or add in the past when it was too late to add to the original comments), but I have to say that I am quite surprised we, as it seems, made a single blog’s post number record.
Again, I do not mean to spam, but now my comment above has been placed in a different chronology order from the others. It is above those that I have already made and some made by others as I type this very comment.
Why do I get the feeling that you are about to say that this blog is in an emergency crash-like state with all of these posting abnormalities or make some kind of similar declaration, Virgil?
*anxiously awaits next blog post*
ummmm this got posted in the wrong spot somehow…
Ok instead of replies, can we all just add our comment? This way we will be able to:
1. See ALL the comments, as we can see from our last visit which new comments there are.
2. Making it simpler, the replier can just add the names next to the reply, thus making it one comment, just like when a player makes a list of ideas and the replier posts the number and their response next to the number.
Ex:
Virgil- cant wait till game 3 and the next blog post 🙂
Hoodwink- 100% agree
3. In some circumstances, the replier could add the number of the comment or just quote the comment
Ex: #300 Lurkily- I somewhat disagree, as the fog could be misleading, showing 2 or 3 crystals just in range when 20 or more are just out of range, but in range of player 2.
OR
Could it be possible that such a long stream of comments be causing the trouble? 300 comments and a 26 minute long video just might cause some of the issues.
Oh wow, I think I see a problem now, my comment went up to #298 when the latest comment is #306
I bet this will go to #299
The snipers are overpowered in groups but alone they are OK
awesome ! Looks great !