Ramming and sacrifice

GoodMorning · 3951

GoodMorning

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 3389
  • (Pusillanimous)
on: May 14, 2017, 05:56:54 am
I have noticed recently that ramming tactics and ship-sacrifices have become rarer in my play. This might be because a typical ship in the Exchange takes significant time to rebuild, and a Destroyer-size ship (as a typical sacrifice) seems to be thought deadweight by fleet designers.

Also, the Hammer-style seems to see progressively less use, again due to the upscaling in the Exchange. The time that a useful thickness of armour takes to build is now much greater, as armour can only be built one layer at a time. Shielded ramming craft also tend to take so much energy to operate that they negate the primary advantage of rams.

Is this an inferior playstyle showing, or is this a general change? How often are sacrifices and rams useful to you?

A narrative is a lightly-marked path to another reality.


tornado

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 293
  • no questions asked and none answered
Reply #1 on: May 14, 2017, 06:21:49 am
Depends. if I have multiples lathe- style ships bearing down on a single threat and they aren't going to make it, I will happily blow one up to keep the rest going. though yes, most ships tend to be too expensive or useful to use as cannon fodder. I think someone should do something about that.

Now CEO of Particular Endeavors. http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=23752.new#new
We apologize for all inconveniences that we caused.
Quote
first, you have to imagine a very big box, fitting inside a very samll box.
then, you have to build one


FOXX

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1227
  • Just Breathe
Reply #2 on: May 14, 2017, 07:53:43 am
I use ship ramming against large enemy ships and i like this strategy.
Or when you have to lathe a strong emitter sacrificing a ship [or more] can be very usefull to make sure your lathe doesn't get destroyed.
An example of ship sacrifice i don't like is the HQ Bomb when players sacrifice the HQ to destroy a large ship.

The FPAF
For My Maps and Ships!
Including  CUSTOM MODULE MAPS & SHIPS


Sorrontis

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 2032
  • CW4! CW4! CW4! CW4! CW4!
Reply #3 on: May 14, 2017, 09:00:43 am
It is a very useful strategy in my many of my maps. Although, I prefer partial sacrifices - where I take a big ship and sacrifice a portion of it's hull and then get it to retreat.

"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion."


Keeper Decagon

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 500
  • Going Nuclear.
Reply #4 on: May 14, 2017, 01:09:15 pm
Usually, I only tend to ram if I know I have energy to spare for rebuilding the sacrificed ship, or to finish off large targets (or destroy specific modules onboard said targets), as well as sacrificing smaller Frigates or Destroyers to save a Capital Ship. Perhaps also to quickly finish off doppels too.

Sacrificing the HQ via HQ bomb, like FOXX said, is something I never use, and I generally detest its use in nearly all situations where the map is clearly possible without it.

"For me, there is no honour or glory. No praise to be had for what I do. I fulfill my purpose for the protection of all... neither of us are going to make it out of here alive." - ?? ??, 145th CE


D0m0nik

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1690
  • Dp
Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 02:00:55 pm
There is an alternative kind fo ramming, in Sorrontis' last map for example I stacked ships on top of each other by timeing their departure and was able to move 4 or 5 ships at the same time across the map. The ship that was slightly in the lead took most of the damage and allowed the other ships to pass over emitters and alongside enemy ships without taking too much damage. Ueful tactic for moving weaker but useful ships into 'hot' areas.



D0m0nik

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1690
  • Dp
Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 02:35:20 pm
Just playing your latest map Decagon and using every ramming tool in the ramming tool box. For dopels you can use small ships to repeatedly ram them as they start to build, keeps them at bay until you can nullify them. Also the idea of stacking is useful for dopels, two ships hitting at exactly the same time packs a big and instant punch but saves both ships. Useful for quickly regenerating dopels.

I am realising playing this that I use ramming constantly but rarely sacrifice ships.



GoodMorning

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 3389
  • (Pusillanimous)
Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 06:39:12 pm
Thinking back, I think I agree - I don't sacrifice many ships (mistakes aside), but I regularly will scrape off significant amounts of hull, or even have a small ship throw itself in front of the engines of a retreating capital ship to protect them.

While I have used the stack tactic, it has tended to be for Struc-crunching.

It's interesting to hear your opinions and strategies.

A narrative is a lightly-marked path to another reality.


FOXX

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1227
  • Just Breathe
Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 06:11:23 am
There is an alternative kind for ramming, in Sorrontis' last map for example I stacked ships on top of each other by timeing their departure and was able to move 4 or 5 ships at the same time across the map. The ship that was slightly in the lead took most of the damage and allowed the other ships to pass over emitters and alongside enemy ships without taking too much damage. Useful tactic for moving weaker but useful ships into 'hot' areas.
This strategy i used sometimes but with 2 or 3 ships. Allign the ships after each other and use pause key to 'stack' the other ships on each other. This works good in the situation that D0m0nik says. This also works for ramming big ships.

When i ram ships usually i don't sacrifice the ship, only a part of it and then i retreat and use another ship if needed.
If a ship gets destroyed in this process it's fine but it takes longer to rebuild.

The FPAF
For My Maps and Ships!
Including  CUSTOM MODULE MAPS & SHIPS


D0m0nik

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1690
  • Dp
Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 12:56:15 pm
Looks like ramming is still a major part of the game, we have just refined how we use it and don't reserve just fro the traditional ramming ships.

In terms of ship design it would be great to see a range of different ramming ideas. Yums needle ship, very long and thin, was fantasic for almost surgicaly targeting a ships core, really great design and it took some skill to weild properly. A ship in the dhaped of an anchor would be uesful, fly alongside an enemy adn then rotate your ship pushing the tips of the anchor into components at the rear of your enemy. Perhaps other 'hook' deisgns. It's interesting if a ships shape can be as useful as it's size.



GoodMorning

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 3389
  • (Pusillanimous)
Reply #10 on: May 15, 2017, 06:07:45 pm
I had experimented with arrowhead rams, and found it effective in some situations.

Most dedicated rams seem to suffer from engine destruction after turning, foiling (or at least severely complicating) retreat.

A narrative is a lightly-marked path to another reality.


FOXX

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1227
  • Just Breathe
Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 01:25:35 pm
For specific ramming ships i usually go for a not to big ship with a lot of hull obviously and little weaponry. Two or 3 engines would be sufficient.
Yums Needle is a good example for a ramming ship.
I think that king of design will be best for ramming ships.

When i finished fix your fleet i had a [maybe silly] thought for making a ramming ship who could take out 2 enemy ships if close enough together.
(click to show/hide)
Originally it did not have shields. I've added those today.

It was NOT suited for the maze series and i didn't implement it to the new adventure mainly because of the build cost. [and i already have a big ship for the new series]
I don't know where i am going with this ship.

The FPAF
For My Maps and Ships!
Including  CUSTOM MODULE MAPS & SHIPS


Nicant

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 430
  • Personal Text
Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 03:20:39 pm
Do shields stack? Does having multiple shield modules make the shield stronger? If so, then you could make a heck of a ramming ship.

CW4 hype!!


FOXX

  • Community Guild
  • *****
    • Posts: 1227
  • Just Breathe
Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 04:49:42 pm
1 shield adds 1 to health of hull so in theory that is possible.
So i have added 4 more shields to the ship in previous message and it can withstand all particles [if in energy range] from an standard enemy emitter [interval 1, max particles 200 and i set the speed to 1] [and i used fields to aim the particles at the ship]
so that is quite good for hull strength.

Interesting for the future.

ps -> when i tested this i used both ships in the same map, build from the same energy source and placed when pause game and the ship with 6 shields builded a bit faster than the ship with 2 shields. Little strange because the ship with 6 shields costs more. I tested it again and the same thing happened.
A bit strange.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 04:56:37 pm by FOXX »

The FPAF
For My Maps and Ships!
Including  CUSTOM MODULE MAPS & SHIPS


cooltv27

  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 292
  • if wat i jsut sayed dont make no cents, GOUD!
Reply #14 on: May 16, 2017, 04:50:42 pm
damage taken is calculated by 1/(1+number of shields)
so 1 shield makes you take half damage, 2 shields would be 1/3 and 3 shields would be 1/4 and so on.

uh oh here comes the creeper, QUICK GET SOME BLASTERS READY! wait, wait, wai, FIRE! IM ON FIRE! NO, NO, NO, GET AWA (the rest was taken by the creeper, taken back and eaten)
I has a youtube channel youtube.com/user/cooltv27