Author Topic: Data on effectiveness of modules  (Read 7774 times)

Xeneonic

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 09:02:42 pm »
Reading these values, we can constate that lasers deal, by far, the most damage out of any weapon when we take into account that 1 laser takes 1 cell worth of room on a ship. i.e. 4 lasers = 1 cannon/missile.

This is further amplified with lasers causing no overhead damage, cannot miss and is instantly transferred to the next target in range.

Relli

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 09:28:45 pm »
Reading these values, we can constate that lasers deal, by far, the most damage out of any weapon when we take into account that 1 laser takes 1 cell worth of room on a ship. i.e. 4 lasers = 1 cannon/missile.

This is further amplified with lasers causing no overhead damage, cannot miss and is instantly transferred to the next target in range.
I agree with all of this, save for the fact that I don't know what "overhead damage" means. Can you explain that for me please?

GoodMorning

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 09:34:35 pm »
Overhead = overkill. There is so much damage required to kill a particle, and any damage dealt over and above this amount is "overhead".

Ex: An MK7 to kill a single particle.

Better ex: Laser a particle until it is near-dead. Then hit it with a missile. Missile has done 1 damage to particle with 0.0001 health, making 0.9999 overkill damage.

Of course, sometimes it can be fun to kill a single Runner by hitting it with a battery of PZ Berthas. This has been called the "There is No Kill Like Overkill" mentality.
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Relli

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2016, 09:52:57 pm »
Thanks for the description. The example with the poor Runner cracked me up, so thank you as well for a good laugh :D

Bacteriophage

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2016, 10:39:30 pm »
What really surprised me was the data on omnis.  Specifically, the omni cannon upgrade is both more effective and less effective than I thought.  More effective, because at max efficiency and omni acts as 2 cannons, meaning that when massed and upgraded, omni cannons are a significant addition to ships' firepower.  On the other hand, the base miring capability of omnis is 4 times as strong (as much as a fighter base), meaning that the upgrade doesn't make that much of a difference when taking mired land (also, this suggests that the base omni cannon target priority of always firing at mired land if there is some in range may not be the best use of resources - pointing the cannon at particles can be very effective, and the lack of the cannon won't cause the land to be mired that much slower).

Also, GoodMorning, I retested with a stunner, and the results were the same.

GoodMorning

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2016, 10:55:50 pm »
Always good to check, and thanks for doing so.

Pointing the cannon at land is likely more effective, because no matter the health of the spacebourne particle, it can only mire one cell. So hitting a mired cell can to the effective damage of three shots for a hard particle, equal efficiency for a soft one, and wondrous efficiency for custom 5000-health particles.
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Kharnellius

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2016, 12:01:55 am »
This thread needs a sticky.....badly.

GoodMorning

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2016, 12:04:16 am »
Once we have an API, we can PRPL-test it and put it on the wiki. So, by the time the data exists for certain, it will be placed elsewhere.
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Tarmandan

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2016, 04:37:24 am »
Interesting, so Omnis have double the fire rate of a normal cannon at 100%? Then, has anybody got the data of how fast omnis mire land?

And it might be better to make a new post that has the top three posts reserved for data posting than to make this one sticky

planetfall

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2016, 06:58:08 am »
Overhead = overkill. There is so much damage required to kill a particle, and any damage dealt over and above this amount is "overhead".

Ex: An MK7 to kill a single particle.

Better ex: Laser a particle until it is near-dead. Then hit it with a missile. Missile has done 1 damage to particle with 0.0001 health, making 0.9999 overkill damage.

Of course, sometimes it can be fun to kill a single Runner by hitting it with a battery of PZ Berthas. This has been called the "There is No Kill Like Overkill" mentality.

It is my understanding that MK7 shots and normal cannon shots are the same thing. MK7 shots are easily observed as continuing through particles too weak to stop them. With regular cannons it's a bit harder but still visible. I may also have seen missiles do this as well, but it simply could have been a cannon shot going behind the missile.
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PhailRaptor

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2016, 07:33:13 am »
Are we sure MK7 shots only kill one particle?  Because I routinely see the barrage of 3 bullets pass through multiple Particles before disappearing, usually 2 or 3 per bullet.  Although, I almost always have an AMP Gem on my Big Nose, so that could also play a role...

GoodMorning

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2016, 07:46:49 am »
MK7s can continue through multiple particles. I was taking an extreme example (extreme to the point that an MK7 will not target a single particle).

I understood that missiles, at least, were one-hit wonders. Still, the point remains: Overkill is the damage that is done over and above the requirement to kill the opponent.

Omnis can punch well above their weight in a high-particle health situation. Mire damages Doppels directly, making that different case, but can remove a very large number of "loose" particles, of any health, by first converting them to mire.
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Bacteriophage

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2016, 08:05:12 am »
GoodMorning, I just tested, and unfortunately, hard particles mire 3 land cells, not 1.

Planetfall, I've tried firing cannons at 1-health particles and they don't pass through, but they destroy the particle.  But for particles damaged by lasers, they do pass through, suggesting exactly 1 soft particle of damage.  MK7 shots seem to do 4 or so damage (12 for the total barrage).

Tarmandan, I've put some more data into the first post, sorry if it's difficult to notice the change.  Anyway, omnis mire one land cell every 4 frames (7.5 pps).

GoodMorning

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2016, 08:41:17 am »
Hmm. Well, soft=1, med=2, hard=3+ health. So that suggests a different miring formula.

Do missiles keep going if not depleted?
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Xalos

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Re: Data on effectiveness of modules
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2016, 12:59:24 pm »
Do missiles keep going if not depleted?

Missiles deal all their damage to a single target, so even if they hit a particle with 0.01 health left they will be destroyed.  Missiles that do not have a target any more will hang around where their target was for a while before despawning, and if a new target comes in range they will seek after it and attempt to destroy it.  In particular, this can be useful against emergent, because you might wind up with thirty missiles all hovering around the areas where new emergent are likely to spawn from, waiting to spawnkill any new emergent.