Custom Map #1738: Creeper vs anticreeper

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AutoPost

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on: December 01, 2012, 01:55:02 pm
This topic is for discussion of map #1738: Creeper vs anticreeper


Author: florrat

Desc:
Another Creeper vs Anticreeper fight. The only weapons you can build are makers. Beware: This map is very hard!



burguertime

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Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 03:50:40 am
Lets wait to see if theres more scores.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 04:16:06 am by burguertime »

Don't make a slog just because. Be like Master Mapmaker SPIFFEN:
(...)Difficulty is subjective. (...)
SPIFFEN chooses to rate each map as trivial because they believe that the difficulty of the map depends on the capability of the player.
BAD RATING: MEASUREMENT OF MAP HARDNESS.
Quote from: DumbCreeperGamer
"Ugh, me no finish map, map too hard, ME RATE ONE.
oOga OoGa to you too.


hadaly

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Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 04:42:05 am
It's impossible to me... Anticreeper finish before beating creeper... Any hint?



J

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Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 07:52:08 am
After watching the intensity's and intervals of emitters, you should know you can't win by just waiting for creeper to be killed. If you do, the creeper will kill you. So try to find another solution. I'm trying to get the nullifier tech before I run out of AC but I still need to find a good way to do that. You probably need to build up a stable base somewhere else for more AC production.


hadaly

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Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 08:17:01 am
I've tried it by charging an AC maker, but is not enough time. Also improving the mining tech, but then i run out of energy to biuld enouch makers... I'm running out of ideas...



J

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Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 08:47:32 am
I tried spamming makers as fast as possible, but then you'll run out of AC.


burguertime

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Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 09:37:16 am
Ok let me jump at the boat. Since this map is so hard I don't believe it can be spoiled, and even so  haven't beaten it.

SO, some math before i go crazy theory....

1) you need to get nullifier tech before creeper gets to you. Lets see some numbers:

You have:

1500/ 2s     100 / 0.5s      100 / 0.5s       300 / 0.5s        400 / 0.5s

Normalized for AC / second;

750 + 200 + 200 + 600 + 800 = 2550k AC / second from emittes.


Creeper (the 1M emitter only starts at 1 minute game time):

1000 / s       100 / 0.16      100/0.5     100/0.5         200/0.5        300/0.5

Normalized:
1000 + 625 600 + 200 + 200 + 400 + 600 = 3025 3000 creeper / second.

So after the first minute, you are at a deficit of 450k 475k creeper / second.
To overcome that, you would need to mine 15 ore / second (1 ore = 30k AC) - that's almost four makers at 4x output.
You have two mining spots free, so you need 13 more to break even with the creeper. That's half of the bottom ore deposits (there's 30 of them) but you need to get them clear in order to mine.

You might need an extra AC to defend some places after your remains are over. I think that putting one maker on vacuum mode, and getting AC that is just lying around to redeploy to the frontlines may be the key.


SINCE I HAVEN't BEAT THE MAP, EVERYTHING BELOW IS SPECULATION. IF THIS HELPS YOU BEAT THIS MAP GOOD 4 U. IF NOT DON'T TROLL ME.

You need to send a commando unit of makers into the 300k emitter to clear it and grab the tech.

You should use the fields to your advantage. Not having field viewer on in this map really was (IMHO) a bummer. Map is hard enough, and you can see the fields in the editor, so let field viewer on, for sake of simplicity.

FIELD VIEWER IS ENABLED, MY BAD.

Send the commando unit of makers right-ward by the middle of the map. The downard field in the lower right section should make it easier to penetrate. Once you get to the right wall, go down and clear the bottom of creeper. You may need to set some micro rifts along the way, so you don't have to worry about supply lines being cut.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 04:00:40 pm by burguertime »

Don't make a slog just because. Be like Master Mapmaker SPIFFEN:
(...)Difficulty is subjective. (...)
SPIFFEN chooses to rate each map as trivial because they believe that the difficulty of the map depends on the capability of the player.
BAD RATING: MEASUREMENT OF MAP HARDNESS.
Quote from: DumbCreeperGamer
"Ugh, me no finish map, map too hard, ME RATE ONE.
oOga OoGa to you too.


florrat

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Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 10:15:35 am
I like to see your joint efforts to solve this map :-) I won't give any hints just yet, first I want to see if you can figure this map out on your own.

Some remarks:

* The 100K 0.16s interval emitter actually outputs 600K creeper per minute (the 0.16 is rounded down from 1/6=0.166666).
* I actually enabled the field viewer on this map!



burguertime

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Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 03:59:30 pm

* I actually enabled the field viewer on this map!

Yeah, morning crazyness. my bad.

Don't make a slog just because. Be like Master Mapmaker SPIFFEN:
(...)Difficulty is subjective. (...)
SPIFFEN chooses to rate each map as trivial because they believe that the difficulty of the map depends on the capability of the player.
BAD RATING: MEASUREMENT OF MAP HARDNESS.
Quote from: DumbCreeperGamer
"Ugh, me no finish map, map too hard, ME RATE ONE.
oOga OoGa to you too.


hadaly

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Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 06:53:46 am
I've tried anything I imagine... I supousse ther's only ONE way to get it, and I can't found it...



florrat

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Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 12:47:34 pm
Okay, some hints:

As being said before, you need to be fast because you're losing from the creeper at a rate of 450k per second, if you do not mine any ore, but do use all the creeper you vacuum from the top right. Since you need 15 ore mines to break even, you would have control a major part of the bottom of the map if you want this, so just getting the nullifier tech is probably easier (and much more effective).

One other thing which is important, is that the top right AC-emitter has a maximum of 2000k. This means that you'll waste some AC when the creeper density becomes 500k or more over there. This happens really fast, so a top priority is to build some makers fast (before you've dug all the 10 energy terrain), else you're wasting AC.

My plan of attack was to use 6-7 makers to push to the bottom right emitter via the bottom. That way, no creeper will flow in the central part from the right, and you can immediately start mining ore from the deposits you've reached with AC. Use charge mode, and release the AC at the creeper-AC border.
At the same time, use 4-5 emitters to defend your ship. This will hold back the creeper just long enough if you're fast. You also need to be fast, since you're having more makers than you can support, and preferably you've nullified the bottom right emitter before you're out of remnant ore.

Hope this helps, otherwise I'll post some screenshots tomorrow.



J

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Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 01:41:18 pm
My record so far:
After that point I wasn't able to advance anymore. Will be trying burst makers next play.


burguertime

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Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 07:54:30 pm
My record so far:
After that point I wasn't able to advance anymore. Will be trying burst makers next play.

instead of setting these two makers as disabled, could you put them vacuuming the bottom left AC by the beginning of the shaft?

see if it makes any change in how far you can go.

Don't make a slog just because. Be like Master Mapmaker SPIFFEN:
(...)Difficulty is subjective. (...)
SPIFFEN chooses to rate each map as trivial because they believe that the difficulty of the map depends on the capability of the player.
BAD RATING: MEASUREMENT OF MAP HARDNESS.
Quote from: DumbCreeperGamer
"Ugh, me no finish map, map too hard, ME RATE ONE.
oOga OoGa to you too.


J

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Reply #13 on: December 04, 2012, 01:47:35 am
Good idea :P, didn't think of that
One problem, I never save games :D


florrat

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Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 07:28:10 am
Maybe vacuuming some creeper will help, but I did not use it myself. I think the main improvement is that if you burst a tank full of AC in the middle of the creeper, you can advance more quickly than producing AC while your maker is on the AC itself. I have some screenshots attached which hopefully make the idea clear.

Good luck!