CW3 Suggestions Redux

knucracker · 69021

knucracker

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on: November 01, 2012, 11:56:17 am
I've locked the old thread Creeper World 3 Suggestions Initiative.  It was running on into a large number of pages and had a healthy collection of off topic posts.  There was plenty of good stuff in there, but it was getting diluted towards the end.  So, on to a fresh topic to help people refocus and consolidate their thoughts.

For those that want to help, keep these ideals in mind:

1: Be succinct.  As Pascal said, "I made this letter very long, because I did not have the time to make it shorter."  Fewer words can carry greater meaning than many....

2: Pretend you are me whenever you make a post.  Imagine what 'I' would think when I read your post.  Is it on topic and helpful?  Is it direct and well thought through?

3: Don't take things personally.  All ideas are valid, as are all professional critiques of ideas.  It is ok to like or dislike ideas and to post the ideas and to post opinions of ideas... so long as it is all civil.  If I see anything that strays into people fighting or posturing, it 'damages my calm' (look it up)... and that's not cool.

4: People make mistakes, and I am their leader.  Expect anyone to not understand or to err in what they say or how they respond.  Look upon us with pity, not scorn.  Before you get ill at us, recall Hanlon's razor....

5: Enjoy yourself and remember others are here to do the same. 

Keep these things in mind, and you'll make me happy.  Now, onward to CW3 suggestions....




Chawe800

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Reply #1 on: November 01, 2012, 02:33:48 pm
The Creeper could have a pro-mechanical ally with it.

Can we start off the second list with the 5 ideas Mr. H was planning to add.

As for that Main Idea list; it will be in the second post.(Sorry for double posting)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 02:46:47 pm by Chawe800 »

“The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.” -James Branch Cabell


Chawe800

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Reply #2 on: November 01, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
Creeper World Main Idea List:

-Battle against something that is unstoppable
-All you can do is run from it
-Undo everything humanity has ever made
-Purity of Nothingness
-Energy Management
-The last survivors
-Top down view
-Emitters that create an organic(like) mass to destroy you
-Meterors of Creeper from the sky
-The Loki deteriorated into Creeper
-Doubt
-Sacrifice

Creeper World 2 Main Idea List:
-The Academy to destroy Creeper
-The ability to go and eliminate the Creeper.
-The Creeper possesses another race
-AI drones that specifically target you
-Take the fight to asteroids
-Go underground to destroy the Creeper
-Dig to make space for infrastructure.
-The creeper can come directly at you
-The nexus returns stronger then ever.
-Anti-Creeper
-Hope

Plz PM me if you want to add to the list. (I didn't know If i should have made a separate topic for this)

“The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.” -James Branch Cabell


lurkily

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Reply #3 on: November 01, 2012, 04:15:20 pm
Anyway, the on-topic point I was trying to make . . .

I meant that I would like the threat and behavior of your enemies to resemble organic behavior.  As in, I would like the threat to be growing, changing, something that spreads and encroaches, grows and develops, a threat that has stages of development, and changes as the game goes on.

Creeper would represent the childhood of the threat, and I view digitalis as another stage in that development, along with spores, which also take time to present a threat.  Different stages in the 'life-cycle' of the threat against you, if you'll permit me to use another organic metaphor.

Throughout the series, outside of a few bits of cutscene text, I've never felt that the creeper or the drones or the spores hated me.  They just did what they did, and what they did happened to be diametrically opposed to my goals.  EDIT: Not to mention my survival.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 04:23:29 pm by lurkily »



4xC

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Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 05:46:09 pm
Well, now that the series is so far ahead, perhaps it is time for the enemies of CW3 to be more hateful towards players and have a more vengeful aura around them. Now would probably be a good time for the creeper to show a desire for revenge against their enemies. I would reference this to something(s) that have to do with revenge, but I do not know if that would still be considered "on-topic".

C,C,C,C


knucracker

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Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 07:33:00 pm
From a lore perspective I can say that in game 3 the enemies (most of them anyway) are still going to be unintentionally threatening to you.  The Creeper was never by itself intelligent, it was just a tool used by the Loki and their agents.  The Styglek drones moved towards a more serious and directed threat, but even they were something I thought of more in a defensive role for the Styglek and their activities than as something designed to go after Humans.  Think of it this way, when your local government decides to build a new school it isn't 'declaring war on earthworms'.  Though, it may appear that way from the earthworms' perspective.

As for Digitalis, it won't have a mind with the strategic intent of destroying the player either.  It can do just that, but only because its the side effect of what it is otherwise doing.  Other things that wander about on the Digitalis also don't care about people... but they can be harmful to them.

Underlying all of the Creeper World games, though, is a bigger intent and a bigger story.  The Creeper and why its mechanics operate they way they do relate to this bigger story... but you'll have to wait for game 3 to learn what that is all about.



mopa42

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Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 07:39:40 pm
Partial idea for a weapon with a interesting cost:
When it fires, this weapon instantly drains all stored energy in all units connected to it (it has no storage capacity so you would need at least one connected unit). This energy damages nearby creeper / shoves it back / vaporizes it or does something else cool.

The interesting aspect isn't so much what the weapon would do but instead the fact that firing it affects all other connected units. Mortars would lose all their ammo, nullifiers would be reset to zero, storage/capacitors would be drained, and any packets would disappear. This downside is counteracted by the fact that the weapon could become very powerful if you have a large network. Of course, the effect wouldn't be as efficient as just letting ordinary weapons damage the creeper, but that's the price you pay to get [insert cool weapon effect here].



Lord_Farin

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Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 10:58:22 am
Together with sophisticated use of disabling/destroying relays/collectors (to deconnect network) or guppies (instant unload), that is an interesting concept you pose. It'd be critical of course that firing this weapon is a manual operation (otherwise managing it is too unwieldy).

Behold, Nexus! Looketh skywards, for thy obliteration thence nighs, my foul enemy!


4xC

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Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 11:15:00 am
In regards to that weapon you, mopa42, describe I think would be called the "Leech" does sound very interesting. I like that it does more work when your network has more energy collection. And the effects on connected friendlies look like really good compensations.

Although, if it could cast a field that vaporizes all nearby creeper, or makes all frontline weapons like PC's and Mortars emit this field, I think we will have a potentially devastating Titan on our hands. Currently, I think it is primarly good for buying players time to keep creeper at bay while they improve their infrastructure for large frontal assaults.

Or maybe there should be units like "Moles/Gophers " that act in conjunction with a single Leech that emanate the vaporization fields. Whatever does emit the Vaporization fields. The Moles or Gophers (M/G until further decided) would maybe be able to travel underground and emit the field where it resurfaces. To nullify enemy structures with this tactic, defense units would have to already be built like shields and guppies because the only type of energy packets I think would be drained by active Leeches would be construction packets.

Nullifiers never stay on the field for long terms like everything else since it destroys itself along with nearby enemy structures. And if ithe Leech does drain other weapons, then we would probably use it when there is only one frontline or threatened area where creeper is a problem to you. Maybe it should just take all energy in storage pods while other weapons would continue to obtain their required energy to function if there are other enemy lines to counter. I still give your idea 2 thumbs up.

C,C,C,C


Chawe800

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Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 11:47:58 am
How about this Leech could target an area an vaporize all creeper and digitalis in this area. This could also be used as another weapon type. It could require more energy to vaporize more creeper in the area.

This could be diverse for clearing a small wide path across a thin amount of creeper. Or if charged a lot could skin off quite a few layers of creeper in the area. You should be able to change how many layers of creeper it peels off and where it fires.

This could also work as a different other weapon (works better that way now that I think about it.)
I call it the Vaporizer

“The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.” -James Branch Cabell


4xC

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Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 04:33:25 pm
By "other weapon" do you mean a Weapon, Titan, Orbital or something else? Come to think of it, since a Vaporizer targets an area, maybe it should be the Mothership's super Orbital weapon or just another Orbital.

I can see why more energy should be used to take out more creeper at a time. I still think that maybe CW3 should have something that allows user to buy time to build infrastructures the way that the Leech does, but the Vaporizer looks just as good.

Then again, Berthas already have infinite range and take out a lot of creeper and could soon be able to harm digitalis. Besides the damage ability, is there anything else that makes the Vaporizer stand out? What it can do that is helpful and important that nothing else can?

C,C,C,C


Chawe800

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Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 07:38:00 pm
It's great for clearing off large plains of really thin creeper allowing a rush push up on a plateau to secure it.

Let's say there is a small plateau of creeper that has been covered by a thin veil. With the Vaporizer you can remove this large thin area of creeper land a few guppies and set up a small outpost. Sure you can send Strafers to shoot away at the creeper and Bombers to provide a little cover. But this thing is great because of it's large amount of customization. You can determine the area it needs to vaporize and how many levels of creeper to skin off and it will charge with an appropriate amount of Energy and fire.

Or how about some creeper made it up the backside of your base. Since it's thin Just zap a fairly large thin amount to hold back the creeper a little until you can defend.

I think it would work best as an Orbital.

“The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.” -James Branch Cabell


lurkily

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Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 07:54:41 pm
Leech could be interesting . . . but just damaging creeper isn't gonna cut it.  I mean, you already have nearby assets with ammo storage, or it wouldn't function.  If it's more powerful than those, what's the point?  They're not even guns, now, they're just batteries.

Therefore, it can't be terribly expensive, but must be very energy-effective in its destruction.  If it's not energy-effective, then you might as well just fire the ammo from the pulse cannon.  Its energy efficiency will justify its expense in the long run, but many players will balk at the complexity of using it, and just use the assets they already have fielded instead.

It would have to have a function other than just damaging creeper.  Problematically it also makes packet sourcing from many diverse sources potentially quite common and widespread.  The new code is powerful enough to handle more of that, but it still has to be a potential source of burden, particularly when in addition to guppying, you have your very weapons calling packets from random other weapons.



4xC

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Reply #13 on: November 04, 2012, 03:57:34 pm
The Leech does not stop weapon packets. It just stops construction packets. And M/G's would emit the vaporization field. (M/G's being either Moles or Gophers)

I figured it would help buy time to have an effective economy. And if it did stop weapons (which I do not think it would), there should be only 1 front line.

Maybe since I had M/G's involed in this, the Leech should actually be called the "Leech Host" and the M/G's the Leeches themselves.

EDIT: Problem with calling them that is shown on this link: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/videos/?view#/heart-of-the-swarm-units
Look at 3:10; it says it all. (I presume this reference is not off topic?)

One question I have is whether or not shields have an effect on Runners (which, as they come from nests, I think need a more organic name like "wasps".)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 04:03:51 pm by 4xC »

C,C,C,C


Ronini

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Reply #14 on: November 05, 2012, 07:08:41 am
If there was any discussion regarding the following in one of the other suggestion-threads I sincerely apologise.

since CW3 offers different types of terrain (as being represented in different colours, grey, brown, green,..), I propose a number of properties different kinds of terrain could have. I have posted some of this in the weekly blogs some time ago, but I think here might be a better place for exchanging thoughts on this.

1. Energy Collection : different terrain could provide collectors with different energy output. Somewhere in the region of 0.8 to 1.2 times a collector's normal energy output. A collector might be able to generate more/less energy on a flat, smooth surface than on rough, rocky (bouldery) ground or grass. I already see a problem with calculating a given collector's output when there is different terrain in his area of coverage. But then this probably won't occur anyway, since different terrain types are set apart by different terrain heights so far, and collecting range is limited to the level the collector is build on.

2. Terraforming : different energy/time requirements for terps to alter a given terrain. It is easier to dig through soft, loose earth than through hard, dense rock. This would also point to un-terraform-able terrain. A question here is wether terps should receive a "change terrain type" option. Here, it doesn't matter wether this can be done directly or by removing ground and creating it again. My favoured solution for this would be to give terps just one single type of ground they can create. (with a multiplicator of 1 for all properties)

3. Creeper spread/dissolving rate : Creeper can surely spread faster on a smooth than on a rough surface. It also might die a little quicker/slower.

4. Sloping terrain :  developing from the wind feature, this could be "wind" only applying to the given terrain that should appear as sloped.

5. harmful terrain : terrain where you cannot build structures, because they are damaged by the ground. If you land units on this type of ground they are either (preferably) damaged over time or destroyed instantly.

Rather than assigning each type (colour/texture) of ground we've seen so far a specific set of these attributes, combining and perhaps randomizing these properties (especially 1-3) would truly create different worlds to play on.

Edit: Just saw in the other thread, that Hindos had posted some of these, already. At least according to the list in the very first post.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 08:48:42 am by Ronini »