Knuckle Cracker

Creeper World => Custom Map Discussion => Custom Map Comments => Topic started by: AutoPost on June 29, 2010, 10:49:37 am

Title: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: AutoPost on June 29, 2010, 10:49:37 am
This topic is for discussion of map: Nice Job 22: The Artist (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2475)
(http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/thumb.php?id=2475) (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2475)

Author: UpperKEES (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/viewmaps.php?author=UpperKEES)

Desc:
I don't expect many scores for this map, as only the true masters of the game will be able to finish it. Again no tricks required, but you might want to have a look at the comments for some tips (as I don't have enough room here). Enjoy!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 11:02:34 am
Title:
Nice Job 22: The Artist
Difficulty:
Expert Only
Creeper type:
Land only
Remarks:
I don't expect many scores for this map, as only the true masters of the game will be able to finish it. Again no tricks required, but you might want to have a look at the comments for some tips (as I don't have enough room here). Enjoy!

Description:
You are a special kind of artist, as you love the combination of math, geometrical shapes and art.

You're inspired by your great example: Maurits Cornelis Escher.  This famous Dutch artist is well known for his repetitive patterns and impossible 3D images that deceive the human eye.

Looking at one of his bird creations you get the impression these birds are looking back at you....

This time Escher isn't fooling you! Better get ready for the toughest battle you've ever played!

(See the comments page at the KnuckleCracker.com forums for hints how to solve this one if you like.)

Download page:
Nice Job 22: The Artist (http://knucklecracker.com/creeperworld/mapcomments.php?id=2475)
Full size screen shot:
(http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=978.0;attach=845;image)

More maps:
Apply here for another job ;) (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=978.0)
Title: *** SPOILER ALERT ***
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 11:07:04 am
Some tips for people who can't get started:

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

Let me know if you need more help; I'm willing to give more hints along the way. :)


This map is based on attached painting.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Sqaz on June 29, 2010, 11:09:25 am
I've already played about 7 min, and got a safe initial position, I never used so many (and only) drones in a map.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Vexsin on June 29, 2010, 11:11:25 am
terrain looks interesting to fight on...
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 11:16:35 am
I've already played about 7 min, and got a safe initial position, but it's very hard, I never used so many (and only) drones in a map.

Ah, a different solution than mine already. :P I never built a drone during the first 15 minutes.... I love this game! :D

terrain looks interesting to fight on...

Yeah, it really is. I'm not very fond of pattern maps myself because of the repetition, but I figured this would be a nice exception. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Sqaz on June 29, 2010, 11:25:12 am
I've already played about 7 min, and got a safe initial position, but it's very hard, I never used so many (and only) drones in a map.

Ah, a different solution than mine already. :P I never built a drone during the first 15 minutes.... I love this game! :D

How did you do it then?
Mortars are too expensive, and blasters don't cover enough terrain.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 11:30:41 am
Mortars are too expensive

Don't they both cost 50 (without upgrades)? ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Sqaz on June 29, 2010, 12:14:06 pm
Mortars are too expensive

Don't they both cost 50 (without upgrades)? ;)

Yep, but mortars use more energy for fewer shots, Virgil once said that.
But I start to hate that manual targetting  :(
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 12:21:08 pm
Yep, but mortars use more energy for fewer shots, Virgil once said that.

True, they do more damage for the amount of energy consumed. The drawback however is that drones drop all their bombs in the same area, so the creeper might not have flowed back yet, while a mortar always targets the deepest creeper. So effectively a mortar might be doing more damage, unless your drone is bombing a constantly flooded area (close to a high intensity emitter for instance).
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Sqaz on June 29, 2010, 12:31:59 pm
True, they do more damage for the amount of energy consumed. The drawback however is that they drop all their bombs in the same area, so they creeper might not have flowed back, while a mortar always targets the deepest creeper. So effectively a mortar might be doing more damage, unless your drone is bombing a constantly flooded area (close to a high intensity emitter for instance).

But the fact that mortars target the highest creeper can let them shoot at emitters, which causes them to do less damage.
And because drones use less energy, because they don't have to be feuled all the time lowers your deficit, I never had one during the initial minutes.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 12:52:10 pm
But I start to hate that manual targetting  :(

Yeah, that can become annoying, especially remembering to do so. ;)

But the fact that mortars target the highest creeper can let them shoot at emitters, which causes them to do less damage.

This can indeed happen with somewhat higher intensity emitters, but I haven't seen it on this map, as the creeper flows into the pools quickly.

And because drones use less energy, because they don't have to be feuled all the time lowers your deficit

Yep. Until they start refuelling and your deficit goes sky high. When you don't deactivate them in certain cases your capping blasters might run dry and you won't be happy.  :o Having some storage could solve this partially (if you're able to keep it filled up, which I doubt in this case).

I never had one during the initial minutes.

I'd like to hear your opinion about this after finishing the map. ;D

I had a nice discussion recently about the use of mortars, see here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3300.msg14548#msg14548). After playing some more maps I changed my mind about them and decided to create two maps that would really need them: The Diver (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3733.0) and this one. Up till then I was beating almost any map with blasters and drones only. I found the more versatile game play not only more enjoyable, but also more effective, so I'm glad there's a need for every unit in CW. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Miss Melissa on June 29, 2010, 01:02:44 pm
great map (as usual), at first i though.. oh no!.. but it wasn't that bad!
definitely still challenging, but compared to some of ur other maps i wouldn't of said this was the hardest.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 01:16:09 pm
great map (as usual), at first i though.. oh no!.. but it wasn't that bad!
definitely still challenging, but compared to some of ur other maps i wouldn't of said this was the hardest.

Holy sh*t! What a great time! I must have been doing something terribly wrong here.... :P

My score submitted was the first time I finished it (weeks ago), but I still figured I did a nice job. I guess I'll have to reconsider my strategy completely, because I'm sure I overlooked something.

On the other hand it makes sense that an artist performs so well on this map. ;D You definitely deserved to get your own painting in the new upcoming 'Hard Art' series! :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Miss Melissa on June 29, 2010, 01:22:24 pm

Holy sh*t! What a great time! I must have been doing something terribly wrong here.... :P

My score submitted was the first time I finished it (weeks ago), but I still figured I did a nice job. I guess I'll have to reconsider my strategy completely, because I'm sure I overlooked something.

On the other hand it makes sense that an artist performs so well on this map. ;D You definitely deserved to get your own painting in the new upcoming 'Hard Art' series! :)

 ;D thank you.. cant wait to see/play it!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 03:05:13 pm
compared to some of ur other maps i wouldn't of said this was the hardest.

It absolutely isn't now I tried again, while it was supposed to be the toughest. It might actually turn out to be the easiest map of them!  :-\

I guess that's what happens when you design a map with a special strategy in mind; something I rarely do, because I always like to offer multiple possible solutions. A good lesson for me though. :) I consider it to be my first flawed/pwned map. Hadn't experienced that yet. :P

The good thing is that this map fits in nicely in the upcoming Hard Art series, so I'll definitely do a remake with the intended game play. Man, you wouldn't believe what a battle it was when I played it the first time! Reminds me of struggling with Tucana and Frigg 3 for 45 minutes when I was a beginner.... ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: snowmaker (JM) on June 29, 2010, 03:16:58 pm
This isn't your hardest map by a long shot. I am trying to be more patient since I tend to get into battle asap, but that doesn't work with this game usually  ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 03:25:35 pm
This isn't your hardest map by a long shot.

Nah, I know after Melissa teaching me a lesson, but the remake will be. ;) Luckily this map is still fun to play. Only Medium would be a more applicable difficulty rating now than Expert Only.

I am trying to be more patient since I tend to get into battle asap, but that doesn't work with this game usually  ;D

Exactly. Patience really pays off.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: NNR_Alex on June 29, 2010, 04:02:17 pm
nice etsher reference, i'll have to try this one later, glad to hear it's not as hard as you made it out to be (as i still can't beat the diver even with starting out on a mortar and two blasters, i'm probably doing something really stupid and wrong).  i'll report back later on how i did.  on and just so melissa knows, i'm also an artist, so you're not along on being and artist on these forums.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 04:11:42 pm
nice etsher reference

Thanks. I really love Escher (have some of his works on my walls). For people not familiar with his work, see here (http://www.google.com/images?q=escher). I'll probably do another (different) map inspired by him later.

i'll have to try this one later, glad to hear it's not as hard as you made it out to be (as i still can't beat the diver even with starting out on a mortar and two blasters, i'm probably doing something really stupid and wrong).  i'll report back later on how i did.

Heheh! Glad there's a good side to everything. :) Let me know in The Diver thread (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=3733) if you like more tips for that one.

and just so melissa knows, i'm also an artist, so you're not along on being and artist on these forums.

Hmmm, quite some artist loving CW! I like that. I know Vexsin is also a creator, but his speciality is music. If you happen to paint modern art I'm happy to use one of your works as well if you like! :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: NNR_Alex on June 29, 2010, 05:25:27 pm
nah i don't paint, i'm pretty horrible at it, i'm more into drawing and digital work.  and unlike melissa my stuff isn't geometric like she said hers is on the diver thread.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 05:28:04 pm
Oh, but drawings and digital art might work out fine too. Do you have a link to pictures of your work?
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: mthw2vc on June 29, 2010, 06:14:12 pm
I'm almost done with this now. Far easier than I had expected, especially since YOU said it was hard. My only issue is that the emitters suddenly got stronger at the 15-minute mark, destroying my relays mere seconds before my victory. Oh well. I can get a worse time if I have to.

EDIT: It just happened again at the 25-minute mark. My network has been ruined by rude emitters that abruptly get stronger with no warning whatsoever.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 06:39:36 pm
Far easier than I had expected, especially since YOU said it was hard.

Same goes for me as you've probably read above. ;) Who do you think is more disappointed by that?  ::)

It's the result of our discussion, as I wanted to create a map designed for the use of mortars. I guess I did this a bit better than expected. :D

My only issue is that the emitters suddenly got stronger at the 15-minute mark, destroying my relays mere seconds before my victory.

Never take anything for granted. ;D

(click to show/hide)

Oh well. I can get a worse time if I have to.

My first attempt took me 32 minutes, hence the choice for the emitter delays. My second around 11 minutes, so your 15 minutes can be improved a lot. For lovers of hard core maps like you (and me) I'd wait for the remake. I promise you'll have a much tougher time. 8) For the average player this is still a very challenging map though. :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: mthw2vc on June 29, 2010, 06:44:13 pm
Faster firing is a way of making it stronger, and a much more annoying one at that, as it's more likely to break caps.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 07:07:00 pm
Faster firing is a way of making it stronger, and a much more annoying one at that, as it's more likely to break caps.

Hahaha! :D Come on, are you really complaining that you lost a few relays and 15 minutes after I've spent about 2 full days on one of your maps? :P This map was intended to collapse in case of a severe deficit or mistake, which happened to me twice during testing when the delays between the emitter frequency increases were shorter, so maybe it was a bad advise to challenge you for the remake. ;D

Besides that it's not true. An emitter of 5 intensity can't be capped by 1 blaster shot; an emitter of 4 intensity (like these) can. Of course I've tested that. ;) Due to the location of the emitters (close to the edge of an elevation layer) a nearby relay would certainly be lost. Just build them a bit further away and you're fine.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: mthw2vc on June 29, 2010, 07:32:50 pm
I never said it was true in every situation. I just said it was more likely, although I suppose that would vary based on the type of maps played. I'm also not compaining that they got stronger. I'm complaining about the fact that it was never mentioned.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 08:17:02 pm
I'm complaining about the fact that it was never mentioned.

Like many others I've used this for many maps and you're the first to complain. Everybody is free to look up emitter intensities/intervals/delays and spore waves in the map editor and I'm not planning on listing them in the future. ;) As you know I've posted about using these techniques in several topics.

If you were really capping these emitters you wouldn't have had a problem by the way, because even after all three mentioned increases the emitters were still cappable by 1 blaster, so I think breaking caps wasn't the issue here; you just built too close.

I never said it was true in every situation. I just said it was more likely, although I suppose that would vary based on the type of maps played.

Even in general it's not true. Let's have a look at four examples:

1. An emitter with 0.1 intensity and 0.1 second interval
2. An emitter with 1 intensity and 1 second interval
3. An emitter with 10 intensity and 10 second interval
4. An emitter with 100 intensity and 100 second interval

In theory (I'll come back to that later) each emitter emits 60 units of creeper per minute, so you could consider them of the same strength. Emitters 1 and 2 can be capped by 1 blaster. Emitters 3 and 4 can't. Of course when more shots are used it's possible to clear the area again (although you won't succeed with emitter 4), but nearby units might have been destroyed by that time. In general you can assume that an emitter with an intensity of <4 can be capped by 1 blaster shot.

This is only in theory, because in reality the emitter only emits the amount of creeper up to the specified intensity, which might be less when there's already creeper above the emitter. The longer the interval, the more creeper will be emitted because most of the creeper will have flowed away from that location. Of course this doesn't apply when the emitter is already being capped, but that might not be the case any more after an increase of intensity, while an increase of frequency (= decrease of interval) won't cause such a problem as long as the interval is greater than about 0.2-0.3 sec (see here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=920.0) for details about that).
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Mare on June 29, 2010, 10:18:05 pm
Good map, really good map, I would have finished it yet I got a little angry over how I kept losing the same spot in the map over and over again and again and chose to quit, the bad part was that I had finally captured all of the really high terrain...This map was sad and fun for me at the same time, good job for making a map like this Upperkees.  ??? :'( :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 10:49:25 pm
Thanks Mare! :)

I guess you played it the same way as I initially did, which really makes you fight for every pixel on your screen. The best tip I can give you is adding a few more mortars to avoid the capping blaster from getting distracted and not building too close to the emitters. When you have all high terrain conquered you should have enough space to build everything you need to finish. I actually needed a lot less than I expected when I went for my second run.

And oh, don't be angry or frustrated with the game (or yourself, or even me ;)). When you finally succeed in completing a hard map the satisfaction is proportional, that's why I love these kind of challenges.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Mare on June 29, 2010, 11:05:47 pm
Thanks Mare! :)

I guess you played it the same way as I initially did, which really makes you fight for every pixel on your screen. The best tip I can give you is adding a few more mortars to avoid the capping blaster from getting distracted and not building too close to the emitters. When you have all high terrain conquered you should have enough space to build everything you need to finish. I actually needed a lot less than I expected when I went for my second run.

And oh, don't be angry or frustrated with the game (or yourself, or even me ;)). When you finally succeed in completing a hard map the satisfaction is proportional, that's why I love these kind of challenges.
I'm not angry at you, just frustrated with myself, I should have added mortar there when I lost the same space....6 times in a row LMAO
I constantly kept claiming and losing it so that's what made me so sad :(
If you want to know what the space was that i kept losing, it was the middle right, where the very eastward totem is.
Also, does anyone know how to play a map called moki moki? That map has been bugging me ever since it came out, I could never beat.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 29, 2010, 11:44:16 pm
I should have added mortar there when I lost the same space....6 times in a row LMAO

(click to show/hide)

If you want to know what the space was that i kept losing, it was the middle right, where the very eastward totem is.

Heheh, funny! For me it was exactly the same spot, but 2 more birds to the left.

(click to show/hide)

Also, does anyone know how to play a map called moki moki? That map has been bugging me ever since it came out, I could never beat.

I had a look at it once, but forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, because I definitely like to play it! :) Moki Moki was created by Mrmcdeath who is still active here at the forums, so if you post a question in the comments for that map he might give you some hints. I can also send you a PM when I've played it, but that may take a few days....
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Mare on June 30, 2010, 12:12:23 am

I will be happy to wait for when you complete it. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: RichieRich on June 30, 2010, 06:33:24 am
Well I finished it  ;D

For everyone saying how easy it is, not a lot of scores!

I did lose about 15 minutes when someone crashed into my office and I didnt have time to pause but there was no way I was restarting at that stage.

I would say I could half the time I did as I really was cautious and TBH it's not that much pressure when you have a few mortars holding things down.

OK so my strategy is all wrong, but still enjoyed it thanks  :D
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on June 30, 2010, 07:57:49 am
Well I finished it  ;D

For everyone saying how easy it is, not a lot of scores!

Heheh! Yeah, that's right. I have the impression that some people just gave up after Melissa posting her score and me posting my second one. It's also possible that their strategy didn't work any more after the emitter increase(s). I can't imagine Sqaz still using drones for instance.

I'm curious how many people will be able to finish this one and what times they'll manage to set, because I'll let that determine how much harder the remake will be.

I did lose about 15 minutes when someone crashed into my office and I didnt have time to pause but there was no way I was restarting at that stage.

Yeah, that's fatal. I'm actually surprised you only lost 15 minutes, because the whole infrastructure could have collapsed completely.

I would say I could half the time I did as I really was cautious and TBH it's not that much pressure when you have a few mortars holding things down.

OK so my strategy is all wrong, but still enjoyed it thanks  :D

I intended this map to be played cautiously and that's exactly where I made my mistake. You know what happened? During testing I had the delayed emitters going off earlier, so the pressure was even higher. There was no margin for aggression at all. When I finished half of the map and figured I would be able to complete it, I decided to make it a little easier, because I wanted this map to be very hard, but not near impossible. So I increased the delays and started playing again. With exactly the same strategy as I used before (WRONG! :P). It got a little easier, so I assumed this would be the desired level of difficulty. I didn't realize that I created just enough margin for a very aggressive speed run. As we all know Miss Melissa is a very aggressive and determined lady, and she immediately demonstrated that bad assumptions will be punished. ;D

Now let's see if more players can find the appropriate strategy to finish this map (either fast or at all). My second try succeeded immediately and I wasn't even sure what to build exactly. Instead of using 20+ energy as I did before I used only 10 this time. I also lost a relay and 2 reactors after building too close to a non-capped emitter when the pool next to it filled up, so I think a time around 10 minutes is possible. Maybe I'll try to bring it in the 5-10 minutes range later on....

Edit: 2 typo's....
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: snowmaker (JM) on July 01, 2010, 12:38:57 am
Sometimes you have those moments that cause you to change strategies. Four collectors will give you more energy than one reactor. I think I have focused too much on reactors. Space and time is always a factor.

Maybe I will try again with a new strategy. Again, thanks for an enjoyable map.  :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: NNR_Alex on July 01, 2010, 02:24:16 am
i don't feel so bad that this one is killing me but it is sad i last longer on this map than i have on  deep sea diver (maybe i try and expand too quickly i dunno).  Anyways i get two mortars up and 2 maybe 3 blasters going, when the final intensity boost happens, i loose one of the pools i'd cleared that i needed to stay cleared cause i was out of room to put more reactors, deficit started going up, i knew this run was a lost cause, i'll have to see about trying to claim three of the high level wings early on instead of only two.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: RichieRich on July 01, 2010, 08:37:21 am
Alex,

Only use blasters when you can cap an emitter. They use too much power otherwise. If you have a mortar largely clearing a pool, try bulding 2 or 3 blasters (disarmed) and while the game is paused move them in unison and arm them. When the pool is cleared, and the emitter capped, you can leave one, using low power and reuse the others.

I build striaght up the top first, building reactors and two mortars on the first and 3rd only, then go left and up building 2 more mortars and reactors to power up to about 7.  I find the two mortars leave the upper areas pretty much available on the left side to go up. Clear it from the bottom left corner, capping as you go up. When the pools are cleared you have huge space to build more infrastructure.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: RichieRich on July 01, 2010, 08:37:53 am
And I forgot to say I am feeling happier about my score now  ;D
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 01, 2010, 08:46:47 am
Sometimes you have those moments that cause you to change strategies. Four collectors will give you more energy than one reactor. I think I have focused too much on reactors. Space and time is always a factor.

Maybe I will try again with a new strategy. Again, thanks for an enjoyable map.  :)

Thanks JM. :)

Four collectors will indeed give more energy, assuming they don't overlap too much, but when you only have 4 locations to build, I'd still build the reactors. It's a real trade off: you need more weapons to clear more space, so you need more energy, but you can generate this energy for a lower price. I'll go for my 3rd try tonight trying to beat the 10 minute mark.

i don't feel so bad that this one is killing me but it is sad i last longer on this map than i have on  deep sea diver (maybe i try and expand too quickly i dunno).  Anyways i get two mortars up and 2 maybe 3 blasters going, when the final intensity boost happens, i loose one of the pools i'd cleared that i needed to stay cleared cause i was out of room to put more reactors, deficit started going up, i knew this run was a lost cause, i'll have to see about trying to claim three of the high level wings early on instead of only two.

It's not very strange that you last longer on this one, because your mortar is able to hit 4 different pools, thus being more effective.

So you mean you experience problems after about 30 minutes when the emitter interval went down from ~0.7 to 0.5 (intensity stayed the same)? When I first played this map I also cleared all pools and capped every emitter. This works fine as long as your blasters don't get distracted too much. I actually covered about half of the map with units before I finally reached the turning point. You can avoid a loss of energy however by clearing some more of the higher sections and jump there by relays. Maybe you should give that a try. I'll send you a PM tonight about The Diver (but I have to go now).

Oh, I just noticed two new replies:

Only use blasters when you can cap an emitter. They use too much power otherwise. If you have a mortar largely clearing a pool, try bulding 2 or 3 blasters (disarmed) and while the game is paused move them in unison and arm them. When the pool is cleared, and the emitter capped, you can leave one, using low power and reuse the others.

This is indeed a good way to cap the emitters! Your blasters can be a real drain on your energy resources otherwise. Having blasters on high grounds is not always an advantage.... ;)

I build striaght up the top first, building reactors and two mortars on the first and 3rd only, then go left and up building 2 more mortars and reactors to power up to about 7.  I find the two mortars leave the upper areas pretty much available on the left side to go up. Clear it from the bottom left corner, capping as you go up. When the pools are cleared you have huge space to build more infrastructure.

You found your way!  8)

And I forgot to say I am feeling happier about my score now  ;D

Best indication of an improved strategy!
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 01, 2010, 01:01:34 pm
I'll go for my 3rd try tonight trying to beat the 10 minute mark.

Hmmm, it actually became my 5th try. First 10:10, then 10:03 (Grrr!  >:() and finally I managed. :P
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Fisherck on July 02, 2010, 06:07:40 pm
Wow, 40 comments! Talk about a hot map topic. The record on the  Toplist!  (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=1051.0), though it has been discontinued is 24. That is a difference 16 (now 17)!

UpperKEES, I do not know how you went under ten minutes. :o I watched ten go by when I was only just connecting to the first few totems, let alone the last. I can see how it took you 5 tries to get that time. Great map, even if it didn't go as you intended. ;)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 02, 2010, 08:10:57 pm
Wow, 40 comments! Talk about a hot map topic. The record on the  Toplist!  (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=1051.0), though it has been discontinued is 24. That is a difference 16 (now 17)!

Well, I like to interact with people playing my maps and give some tips along the way, so I post rather often in the comments of my own maps. Sauffaus only replied a few times to his Alien Alter Ruin map; if you look at unique comments he'd probably still be in that list. His map deserves it though, it's one of the best I've ever played and I can recommend it to anyone up for a great challenge.

UpperKEES, I do not know how you went under ten minutes. :o I watched ten go by when I was only just connecting to the first few totems, let alone the last. I can see how it took you 5 tries to get that time.

I was actually very surprised to complete it in 11 minutes on my second try. I played as aggressively as possible, trying to beat Melissa's 22 minutes. That last minute took me a lot more effort.

Great map, even if it didn't go as you intended. ;)

Thanks! :) Indeed not what I intended, but I've learned something again.

The remake will be as I intended; I'll be sure to test more aggressive strategies as well this time. I'm happy this version is still much fun to play, as many people probably won't be able to finish the hardcore edition.  8)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Katra on July 11, 2010, 09:30:48 pm
Two tries and I haven't reached a single totem. On try one I built up, then (after a few unsuccessful tries elsewhere) was starting to clear territory down and left when the 15 minute creeper increase took out a key relay. On try no 2 I built up and right. Was slowly but steadily clearing territory until the 25 minute increase overwhelmed me.
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on July 11, 2010, 09:45:03 pm
Two tries and I haven't reached a single totem. On try one I built up, then (after a few unsuccessful tries elsewhere) was starting to clear territory down and left when the 15 minute creeper increase took out a key relay. On try no 2 I built up and right. Was slowly but steadily clearing territory until the 25 minute increase overwhelmed me.

The increases won't raise the creeper levels, but they will add more creeper in the same amount of time, so it acts a bit like double down mode. My advise to you is: more mortars. Emitters that were already capped will stay capped as long as the blaster(s) won't get distracted (so maybe use 2 instead of 1 per emitter on the edges of your conquered territory).
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: Palsh on August 28, 2010, 11:35:54 am
Wow, I finally did it. I consider this map the hardest I've played so far, although, as Keep often stated for his maps, once you know how it's done, it almost looks easy...

I ran into starvation quite a lot and my advice to anyone playing this map would be to keep one and a half eye on energy depletion. Whenever possible, build energy generating devices.

Thanks for your maps UpperKees!

Palsh
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on September 02, 2010, 01:07:35 pm
Wow, I finally did it. I consider this map the hardest I've played so far, although, as Keep often stated for his maps, once you know how it's done, it almost looks easy...

It was indeed intended as the hardest map of the Nice Job series, but as you've seen on the score board there is an unintended quick(er) solution. I still plan to release a harder version as the last map of the Hard Art series.

I ran into starvation quite a lot and my advice to anyone playing this map would be to keep one and a half eye on energy depletion. Whenever possible, build energy generating devices.

Yep, this is a good advise!

Thanks for your maps UpperKees!

Palsh

You're welcome! :)
Title: Re: Custom Map: Nice Job 22: The Artist
Post by: UpperKEES on November 24, 2010, 10:30:05 am
The good thing is that this map fits in nicely in the upcoming Hard Art series, so I'll definitely do a remake with the intended game play.

If you finished this one, but like to play the map as I originally intended, or if you skipped this one knowing there would be a remake:

Here it is: Hard Art 9: Firebirds (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=5339.msg28953#msg28953).

It's an even harder version that doesn't allow for speed runs as far as I've been able to test. Enjoy! :)