Knuckle Cracker

Knuckle Cracker => Support => Topic started by: Aurzel on January 05, 2010, 03:52:26 pm

Title: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 05, 2010, 03:52:26 pm
(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo46/soulful_plain_strider/chain.jpg)

i was doing this to see how long a chain of packets i could get for the fun of it, and instead found that starvation started going up since odin city only emitted 21 packets instead of 32, what's going on did i miss something?
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 05, 2010, 04:05:51 pm
Updated:

I think it was a problem with your experiment. I did one of my own and packets seem to flow out at 32/"time click." Ineresting was to watch the starvation count decline by 32 per as well. Clicking on the image will open a larger version.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2sbojf9.jpg) (http://i48.tinypic.com/6p1b94.jpg)
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 05, 2010, 06:09:42 pm
I have a lot of images that I can stitch together into a "movie." Might be interesting to watch... or not, since the lag in the experiment was horrible. I guess wathing paint dry might also be fun.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 05, 2010, 06:12:39 pm
still doesnt explain why my despersion stopped at 21
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 05, 2010, 06:53:14 pm
I can't quite read the number on your image for collection, but do you have sufficient collectors to collect >21 units of energy? You have no reserves, so if you are unable to collect enough enrgy, you cannot disperse all the packets. My quick calculation of your image says you have 64 collectors (one is a reactor) that perhaps each collect .4 units of energy giving a max of 25 units of energy.  That is in the ballpark with what is being dispersed.

Look again at my experiment. I have collectors and reactors that collect >32 energy and I have a *huge* reserve of energy. That reserve is depleted (and always was during peak demand) by 31 units.

Do the math here.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 05, 2010, 07:35:47 pm
you'll see that its not just one reactor, its several dozen overlayed and my energy s 51.9
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 05, 2010, 07:37:58 pm
should only need 40, the extra 8 is so that u have a positive production/ fill up reservers
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 05, 2010, 07:39:42 pm
like i said, my depletion is only 21 not 32, and i didnt calc how much energy i'd be getting, i just kept clicking on the reactor button until a lot had been put on the map
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: knucracker on January 05, 2010, 08:18:16 pm
If you built just one storage unit, you should get the 32 per second.  With no storage your energy tank in Odin city is just 20 big.  So it gets emptied on one cycle of the game and it doesn't get any back in the tank till the next iteration.... this is why you top out at 21.  Build one storage and your tank will increase to 40 and you will be able to source the 32 per second.

At least this is what I think should happen based on my memory of the code :)
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 05, 2010, 11:17:47 pm
I'm not sure that explains what Aurzel is seeing. Note that he is not seeing bursts of 21 packets, but a spread-out effect that is similar to a single building requesting packets. I would have thought that if Odin City had a storage facility of 20, then it would send out a burst of 20 packets tightly spaced together. Wht his map is showing is more along the lines of Odin City dispensing at the request rate of a singe facility being built.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 06, 2010, 04:29:26 am
actually kar the dispersed rate would be the result of the large number of speeds have in between those reactors
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 06, 2010, 08:39:28 am
actually kar the dispersed rate would be the result of the large number of speeds have in between those reactors

I'm not even beginning to understand that.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 06, 2010, 08:43:01 am
look at my topic on this subject:
http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=356.0
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 06, 2010, 11:00:04 am
ok let me start again:
i have a ton or speeds underneath that big pile of reactors
better? lol
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: SPIFFEN on January 06, 2010, 11:06:07 am
There is an thread that is locked about storage makes city send more units ,
it sayd that 2 storage max this .
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Siccles on January 06, 2010, 11:18:32 am
one does >.< its a pretty easy concept:

as far as I understand, on the start of every "second" the energy storage you have got are filled (even if you dont see it)
which are then sent out by odin city.

If you have an energy production of 32, but only a storage of 20 (odin city) then itll only fill up to 20, and the 12 will be wasted and not distributed.

If you build a single storage, you can store 40 energy, meaning that you can distribute the 32 max energy.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 06, 2010, 11:23:00 am
There is an thread that is locked about storage makes city send more units ,
it sayd that 2 storage max this .

That's a TheBuilder thread. You want to ignore that, he rehashes other people's topics.

In this thread, Virgil has pointed out that Odin has internal storage for only 20 packets. Thus you have to build at least one more storage unit if you want Odin City to disperse 32 units. In an earlier map in this thread I showed that that was possible to get a fully-loaded dispersal if enough supply, storage and demand was available.

What is at issue is why the OP could not get that in his map. His map shows the packets being dispersed individually instead of in bursts.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 06, 2010, 11:27:45 am
what was in issue was why my depletion rate was 21 and not 32 but that's solved now
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 06, 2010, 11:34:27 am
Here i will risk my own rep, K75 U HAVE GONE TO D*** FAR ON THAT ONE!!!

Karsten, i do not rehash(wtf?) other people's topics, i mean ive looked up some of the stuff uve said and u arnt exactly originaly either, so EITHER SAY SOMETHIN RELATED TO TEH TOPIC OR SHUT UP!!!

and just to clarify, i made that topic after i tested how many storage u need to get teh full 32 packet production, so mind ur own business. One more thing, i locked it so that it could not be bothered with since there r already a couple of topics that talk about it.

Odin City can send a max of 32 packets per second, but it only stores 20 per second, so to get the max packet production per second just build one or more storage.

K75 one last thing, I may repeat wat other people have said but i try to do it in a way that is easier to understand, for everyone.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 06, 2010, 11:49:07 am
you'll see that its not just one reactor, its several dozen overlayed and my energy s 51.9

How do you overlay units?

I'm still not sure we have reached the bottom of this. If you have a dispersal rate of only 21, you should see a "burst" of 21 packets and a space before the next burst. Your original image, which only shows one reactor, btw, shows the packets travelling individually and not in bursts. That I cannot recreate. Now I'm wondering if it has something to do with what you term "overlay" of units?
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Siccles on January 06, 2010, 11:51:53 am
gotta agree with karsten on this one... if I may quote your thread as it is now:
"
Virgilw mentioned this to me, just make 2 storage buildings to get the max packet production, each adds 3 to max, teh max packet production without anything else is 21, so
21+1S=24
21+2S=32
"

not only is this wrong, but it was even more wrong before you edited it... and making a thread for it with information someone else provided was uncalled for
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 06, 2010, 12:04:53 pm
Here i will risk my own rep, K75 U HAVE GONE TO D*** FAR ON THAT ONE!!!
You don't have a reputation to risk. Your only reputation is of an illiterate, cursing spammer.

Quote
Karsten, i do not rehash(wtf?) other people's topics,

Yes, you do. After Virgil posted here (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=348.msg2590#msg2590) about needing multiple storage units, you started a topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=353.msg2592#msg2592) on that. After I posted the image of Odin city working at capacity (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=348.msg2572#msg2572) to disperse packets, you posted a similar image in another topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=356.msg2608#msg2608). That's rehashing - Check the time stamps.

Added: And as pointed out, not only did you start the topic i linked above, but *after* that you started a topic (http://knucklecracker.com/forums/index.php?topic=355.msg2598#msg2598) in Suggestions (do you even know what the word means?) that is simply wrong (even after you edited it). And just in case you try to edit it again, here is a screenshot of it:
Quote
(http://i50.tinypic.com/ztja0j.jpg)

Quote

i mean ive looked up some of the stuff uve said and u arnt exactly originaly either, so EITHER SAY SOMETHIN RELATED TO TEH TOPIC OR SHUT UP!!!

Post examples please?

Quote

and just to clarify, i made that topic after i tested how many storage u need to get teh full 32 packet production, so mind ur own business.

Again, you made it after this topic was started and the discussion was in here.

Quote

 One more thing, i locked it so that it could not be bothered with since there r already a couple of topics that talk about it.
So you are posting on a discussion board, but yo ulock your topics so that people can't reply (discuss) your topics?

Quote

Odin City can send a max of 32 packets per second, but it only stores 20 per second, so to get the max packet production per second just build one or more storage.
And then you say it over and over and over....

Quote
K75 one last thing, I may repeat wat other people have said but i try to do it in a way that is easier to understand, for everyone.

You think CAPS, swearwords, %^*%,  spelling, and grammar mistakes makes your posts more clear than posts that do not contain such stuff? What kind of "everyone" are you talking about? People who live in a ghetto? That's not everyone.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 06, 2010, 12:40:14 pm
K75, let me put it simply, im an Edited Out, ur an Edited Out, the only difference between the two of us is that u wont admit it and shut up already, unlike u i actually went into the game and checked out wat happens when u build 1, 2, 3, etc, storage units, so that i would know exactly how the game works,

Yes virgilw knows how its supposed to work, hes the one that coded it, but mistakes still happen, Ill leave it at that.

One last thing, next time u try to prove someones wrong about somethin, relize just how stupid it is waste so much space over somethin that ONLY U care about.

After this if i see u wastin any more space with ur stupid "i know better than u crap" ill report the crap out of u.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Siccles on January 06, 2010, 12:45:59 pm
The one that should be reported is you Builder.

If I may recount the rules you broke:

"1. No Flaming. This is not a hate forum."

"2. Do Not Spam."

"4. Respect Others. Everybody has feelings."

"5. No Offensive Text or Pictures."



Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 06, 2010, 12:55:42 pm
K75, let me put it simply, im an dick, ur an dick, the only difference between the two of us is that u wont admit it and shut up already, unlike u i actually went into the game and checked out wat happens when u build 1, 2, 3, etc, storage units, so that i would know exactly how the game works,

Yes virgilw knows how its supposed to work, hes the one that coded it, but mistakes still happen, Ill leave it at that.

One last thing, next time u try to prove someones wrong about somethin, relize just how stupid it is waste so much space over somethin that ONLY U care about.

After this if i see u wastin any more space with ur stupid "i know better than u crap" ill report the crap out of u.
Quoted. Now you can't change it.

Let me say this. On the matter of who's what in whose opinion, I agree with you on 50% of that.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 06, 2010, 01:03:52 pm
Hey uuu siccles think about wat karston has been postin, dont ya think that might be a bit on the "I dont like u" side of things, besdies, i just want him to stop wastin time correcting other people's mistakes/misunderstandings.

U say im hatin on him, y dont u say he be hatin on me the, hmm, he didnt exactly try to be nice in his posts, now try and drop it guys, this topic has gotten sooooooooooooo far off track, im more woried about teh forums if u havent noticed, K75 just wants to prove me wrong and him right, there i said it nice and simple, NOW DROP IT.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Mrmcdeath on January 06, 2010, 04:29:03 pm
I am thinking of what you said and I agree with Siccles. I agree with Karsten. You have been spamming and hating on this forums and we are trying to fix it. But you seem to think that we are ruining it. Since of your more than one rule breaking I think that you will probably be banned.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 07, 2010, 02:09:16 am
its not u mrmcdeath, its karsten75, not siccles, that is wastin space

the only one i find to be screwin stuff up is karston74, i really wouldnt care if he didnt have to have a foot long post just to try and corret me, its pointless
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Aurzel on January 07, 2010, 10:33:49 am
ok that's enough no more flaming anyone

~LOCKED~
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: NoobSauce on January 07, 2010, 07:10:36 pm
Um, so.

What was the consensus?  You need a Storage to get the max of 32 packets onscreen?
I'm guessing that's a hard limit (as in, more reactors won't give you the ability to send 40 packets at once)?
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Siccles on January 07, 2010, 07:17:27 pm
correct, without a storage you can send something around 20, and with a storage 32.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: TheBuilder on January 07, 2010, 07:18:03 pm
One storage SHOULD give u the max packet production, make 2 just in case.
Title: Re: long chain + depletion question
Post by: Karsten75 on January 07, 2010, 09:50:36 pm
One storage SHOULD give u the max packet production, make 2 just in case.

In case of what? A strike of the electrons is one storage facility?  You probably wear 2 pairs of socks, "just in case."

There is a case to be made for having large storage capacity, but not if your generating capacity exceeds the dispersal capacity.